recommend evergreen trees for windbreak?

breadbin

i'm in mayo and have about 150 yards of perimetre to plant evergreens on. One side of the garden is already covered with evergreens about 15ft high and they're thick as anything so i was wondering what to put on the other sides to block both wind and give me a bit of privacy. ideally the same as the others but i have no idea what they are whether they are a certain species.

are there evergreens i can get especially for this? like ones that dont grow too tall and bush out naturally? thanks

also anyone know where the best place to get these are in bulk?

paddy147

breadbin wrote: »

i'm in mayo and have about 150 yards of perimetre to plant evergreens on. One side of the garden is already covered with evergreens about 15ft high and they're thick as anything so i was wondering what to put on the other sides to block both wind and give me a bit of privacy. ideally the same as the others but i have no idea what they are whether they are a certain species.

are there evergreens i can get especially for this? like ones that dont grow too tall and bush out naturally? thanks

also anyone know where the best place to get these are in bulk?

Take a picture of the evergreen trees and post it here.

Im sure people will identify the trees for you,via the picture.

Regards.:)

Oldtree

Evergreens arnt your only option unless privacy is an all round year requirement. Deciduous trees/hedging provide all the privacy needed in the summer months and allow the light through in the winter.

Evergreens provide a wind block and it is much better to use decidious trees that break the wind down to 50% of its speed, which is the best to be hoped for, evergreens force the wind up and over (or funnel it) and the wind comes down at twice the speed at 2 times the distance of the height of the hedge.

bbam

Western Red Cedar is a good option.
It can be cut back to old wood and regrow. Not like our other friend the lleylandi ( can never spell the damn thing)

Oldtree

Dont get me started on leylandii most of my work is cutting them or reducing them or removing them. They are on a continental holiday here and can grow up to a meter in each direction a year once they settle in and dont slow down until the hedge has used up all the local nutrients in about 20 years. Unless you are prepared to cut the hedge twice a year for ever then dont plant them as they are very badly behaved miscreants.

Too many of them have been planted in the wrong place already. There are thousands of disputes in the uk over them.

paddy147

bbam wrote: »

. Not like our other friend the lleylandi ( can never spell the damn thing)

If you are prepared to do serious work in pruning them and keeping them vigourously clipped back,then they are great.

But once they are let go and not looked after,then like you said,thats it,game over.:eek::D

breadbin

paddy147 wrote: »

If you are prepared to do serious work in pruning them and keeping them vigourously clipped back,then they are great.

But once they are let go and not looked after,then like you said,thats it,game over.:eek::D

oops it turns out the side of evergreens are leylandii! so probably not the best option.

think the western red cedar would grow too tall - from what i see on google images they look huge! but thanks for the options.

started looking at deciduous now and am half thinking of laurels? would you recommend them?

planetX

Oldtree wrote: »

Evergreens arnt your only option unless privacy is an all round year requirement. Deciduous trees/hedging provide all the privacy needed in the summer months and allow the light through in the winter.

Evergreens provide a wind block and it is much better to use decidious trees that break the wind down to 50% of its speed, which is the best to be hoped for, evergreens force the wind up and over (or funnel it) and the wind comes down at twice the speed at 2 times the distance of the height of the hedge.

+1 on the wind tunnel effect - I have evergreens on 2 sides and this is exactly what is happening. I'm planting a lot of hawthorn and hazel in staggered clumps to try to filter the wind.

and I wouldn't recommend laurel at all, it's really hard work to cut especially if it gets out of hand.

LaChatteGitane

Would beech work okay at your end ? They keep their autumnal leaves till the spring ones appear.

greenfingers89

LaChatteGitane wrote: »

Would beech work okay at your end ? They keep their autumnal leaves till the spring ones appear.

bare in mind beech can be extremely fussy regarding site/soil quality. mayo wouldnt have many areas suitable for beech.

i was on a farm in sligo a few weeks ago and there was a windbreak maybe 400m long consisting of lodgepole pine, birch and a handfull of spruce, mountain ash, alder and whitethorn. its a strange mix for that situation id say but it actually looks pretty good, its about 15 years old now and because of the species mix it doesnt funnel the wind like mentioned above but does give decent privacy with the conifers mixed through it

LaChatteGitane

greenfingers89 wrote: »

bare in mind beech can be extremely fussy regarding site/soil quality. mayo wouldnt have many areas suitable for beech.

i was on a farm in sligo a few weeks ago and there was a windbreak maybe 400m long consisting of lodgepole pine, birch and a handfull of spruce, mountain ash, alder and whitethorn. its a strange mix for that situation id say but it actually looks pretty good, its about 15 years old now and because of the species mix it doesnt funnel the wind like mentioned above but does give decent privacy with the conifers mixed through it

I see.
In that case (any case really) mixed hedging are the most beautiful and biodiverse.

planetX

I haven't found that beech is particularly fussy - it's slow to get going, but once it does it's easy. Family have it growing in heavy clay on windy site and it's lovely.
Hornbeam is usually recommended if you can't grow beech.

breadbin

yeah we have a few beech already in the front and like planetx says they are really slow to get going but maybe if i mixed them in with other shrubs they might work at the back too. have been out looking at hedgerows now this evening and there are lots of hawthorne white and red around so might be interested in that and maybe hazel with a few conifers thrown in too:)

im glad i'm not going with the full leylandii hedge now its a bit boring really compared to what else is out there - thanks

muckyhands

The thing with beech is they dont transplant very well, best to start with young plants.

Hornbeam is definitely a tougher plant imo. It also leafs up earlier than Beech.

Beech or Hornbeam mixed with rugosa roses looks lovely I think. Half thinking now of digging up a few plants in our recently enough planted hedges to add some rugosas, dont know if my boyfriend would be too happy, maybe he wont notice? Fingers crossed I guess.

paddy147

Hornbeam for the win here.

Nicer than beech (in my opinion),hardier than beech and leafs up/greens up faster than beech too.Its also far easier to transplant and regrow,in bareroot form.:)

Oldtree

No matter what you plant it is best to start with small plants, 2 year olds and plant bare root in winter. Look around you to see what is doing well in your area to help you decide. If you go for a more natural look/mix then there are lots to choose from for Mayo on an exposed site such as:

top story
Ash, Alder, Chestnut, Oak, Birch, Willow, Bird Cherry, Beech,

understory
Blackthorn, Hawthorn, Spindle, Hazel, Crab Apple, Holly

The only problem with beech here is that if there is a severe spring wind when the beech is opening up the leaves can get badly damaged, but do recover. This happened last year and one side was badly affected, after a harsh pruning, so if planting in an exposed site it is best to put up a plastic windbreak mesh until they have settled in. Other then that it makes a lovely hedge. Purple beech makes a lovely contrast too, although more expensive and a little bit more sensitive.



I understand that Alder hedges are all the rage around orchards in the UK.

paddy147

You can plant bare root Hornbeam right up to the last weekend of April and even 1st week of May.

We have done it 2 years running now,(actually planted them 1st weekend of May) and the bareroots are absolutely flying.

Soil preperation is just as important though.

Oldtree

The optimum time for planting any bareroot stock is an ice free day from november to the end of february.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

The optimum time for planting any bareroot stock is an ice free day from november to the end of february.

Im aware of that,but all Im saying is that bareroots can be planted right up to "leafing" time.

Especially so with bare root hornbeam

Good soil preperation and also daily watering,and also a liquid feed also helps them to establish and grow very well.

Oldtree

You "can" do lots of things, trees can be brought out of cold storage in July and then planted, but that is not the optimum time to plant. Trees start to set roots from the end of feburary onwards so late plantings deprive them of this settling in period.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

You "can" do lots of things, trees can be brought out of cold storage in July and then planted, but that is not the optimum time to plant. Trees start to set roots from the end of feburary onwards so late plantings deprive them of this settling in period.

Again,I will say that Im aware of that,as we have planted many bareroots in that time frame ourselves.

But you can still easily plant bare roots and trees up to May.A bit of care and TLC is all thats needed.

Its not hard to do,and and its not rocket science either,to do it.
If I can do it,then anyone can do it.:)

Oldtree

No its not hard to do, but its more a commercial viewpoint. If you want to do the best by your plantings in your own garden then you are not up against time pressures and it is best to plant you trees during the optimum time, ie november to february.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

No its not hard to do, but its more a commercial viewpoint. If you want to do the best by your plantings in your own garden then you are not up against time pressures and it is best to plant you trees during the optimum time, ie november to february.

We do look after our plants and trees,and we do best by them too,thats I can vouch for 110% (pics show it too).

Time pressure has nothing to do with it for us.Both of us like our gardening (especilly my missus).:D

Suggesting that theres only 3-4 month timescale to plant bareroots isnt exactly correct.

6 month time scale easily (up to April),and even longer (early May with us 2 seasons running).:)

Oldtree

I'm not suggesting that there are strict time limits and planting can only be done then. I'm only saying what the optimum time is for planting trees which is based on best practice and I encourage my customers to plant then and do likewise myself both commercially and privately.

planetX

You have to factor in weather too - this year Spring was so late that bareroot was fine until start of May. In a terrible Winter like the one before last you couldn't have planted in Feb. You've got to use your judgement as well:D

Oldtree

I thought it was a very mild winter, compared to last year and I got the destinct impression that the budburst was early this year. I was late planting this year due to illness.

Have a look at the chat here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056568029

The only time I avoid planting in winter is if the ground is frozen, rain dosn't stop me.

GreenLady

Mix it - as someone has already said it is better for biodiversity - and it looks better as well. If whitethorn was hard to grow people would pay a fortune for it. Remember you get the berry colour in the autumn as well. And mountain ash comes with several different variations of berry colour. Alder will grow easily most places, haven't seen wych elm mentioned yet, even an odd oak would mix in if you've got a length like that. I'd suggest Future Forests in Cork - tell them what your soil is like and how much wind it has to stand and they'll give good advice at good prices. I've bought from them for all sorts of sites and never gone wrong yet. Agree about the hornbeam but throw in some beech too for variety. And a couple of different birches - our native one, silver and Himalayan which has the most amazing bark in winter. In fact what about the odd willow or half dozen for winter and spring - winter sunshine on golden will is lovely and really gives you a lift, while the purple willow has stunning pussy willow catkins right in the middle of winter to cut for the house. Single species hedges take a lot more looking after and are basically boring but with a good mix you'll attract all sorts of interesting wildlife and the birds will keep the trees healthy chasing the moths caterpillars. Having a good long hedge to plant is a great opportunity. Whoops, nearly forgot wild cherry and wild plum

planetX

Oldtree wrote: »

I thought it was a very mild winter, compared to last year and I got the destinct impression that the budburst was early this year. I was late planting this year due to illness.

Have a look at the chat here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056568029

The only time I avoid planting in winter is if the ground is frozen, rain dosn't stop me.

It was a very mild winter, but the cold in April really delayed budburst on trees - here in the West anyway. I have some oak that is only just out now:eek:

GreenLady

planetX wrote: »

It was a very mild winter, but the cold in April really delayed budburst on trees - here in the West anyway. I have some oak that is only just out now:eek:

Mild winter followed by warm early spring followed by cold late spring so species that normally have early bud break such as plum had very early bud break and species that normally have late bud break such as oak and ash had very late bud break. And some species - notably elder round here - went completely insane have threw a few early flowers right through March, April and May.

And there's another one for your understory - elder - lovely white flowers, berries for the birds and elderflower syrup and champagne followed by elderberry wine.

On the bare root planting - of course you can get away with it any time of year if you are prepared to spend enough time watering, staking, feeding etc. But the long term health of the tree is determined by those first few months of root growth and it is my experience that in twenty years time your hedge will thank you if you wait until Autumn. I can look at trees I planted both ways for anything up to sixty years and you can see the difference today.

And I reckon the same goes for container v bare root - in terms of long term health you are better planting the bare root in that November to February winter than a container in summer however carefully you look after it. Fine for shrubs where the ratio of top growth to root is closer, but for trees they are happiest to wait.

Oldtree - don't know who you are but I think your customers are lucky to have you in their area

Oldtree

Greenlady, as you say, I forgot to mention the long term view above that it takes 8-10 years to establish a hedge with proper pruning to shape, (I'm getting rusty.)

Its been a weird spring alright planetX. In my garden I have a mature ash tree that has finished flowering and is now in full leaf and has been for about 2 weeks, in contrast i have a semi mature ash that is only budbursting now.

As well as natural variability within a speces for time of budburst, links have been known and shown between budburst and light periods as well as temperature:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k81g517666550562/?MUD=MP

On the point of container planting I was of the view, by way of experience with a Scots pine, that the stem would have to outgrow the diameter of the peat filled pot before it would be stable. This was not the case with a purple beech but it had become rootbound and so has had a deminished growth pattern.

All my own hedging has been bareroot and with them (alder/hawthorn/ash mainly, green and purple beech out the front) I bought what are known as 90-120's (cm's) with very good roots (good food stores). This enabled me to prune the plants back harshly (and some of the roots too to fit in the holes) and this gave them a good start. The holes are squares cut out of the ground to try and maintain the structure and texture of the soil allowing the plants to quickly root into sound soil with no stakes. I dont fertilize as most soils have sufficient nutrients for most trees and I want the tree to harden off to its environment. Fertilizing leads to extention growth that is more prone to insect attach and disease.