Fiscal treaty poll

ziedth

TBF Max Powers you have a very good point.

Interesting results on the poll but given the demographic that use boards it's not exactly a surprise.

Cabaal

ziedth wrote: »

TBF Max Powers you have a very good point.

Interesting results on the poll but given the demographic that use boards it's not exactly a surprise.

Yeah its not a surprise, thing is the demographic that uses boards.ie is not the same demographic that turns out to vote in the highest numbers so any poll on boards.ie in no way can represent what the actual vote will be.

ex_infantry man

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

I think that were fecked if we vote yes and were fecked if we vote no.
But I will be voting no because I don't trust our goverment and after years of lies why trust their advice now....

We have a great country with great people. And we can produce everything we need here in Ireland. We just need to cut the waste in all sectors and we would be fine. But I can never see it happenning because the goverment are afraid of the unions. We need to stand on our own two feet again and show the world what we are made of. And please get back our tourism as it is a way to get billions into the economy.
If I was a toursit I would want to go to an Irish Pub or Hotel or restaurant and be served by Irish Staff and experience Irish culture..after all this is what we were famous for.

God if I was a politicial I would tell it like it is.

well said here!!! here!!!!

Black Suir

I cant remember was it Claire Daly or Mary Lou that made an excellent point on Primetime last night. The last time that Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour asked us to vote the same way, (ie Yes for Lisbon), they all said there would be jobs for us out of it. Well I would love to know where these jobs are. If i bother going to the polls, I am going to vote no. They told us lies and lots of them last time out, and I have no reason to believe they are telling the truth this time.

I am also totally disgusted with our Taoiseach. He has proven in the last few weeks to be spineless and dont have the balls to debate the treaty. First he hinted he would not go on TV3 if Vincent Browne chaired a debate with Gerry Adams. When he said he would step down to let Ursulla Hannigan chair the debate he found another reason to not debate the matter. Maybe what Vincent Browne said about Enda a while back, Enda could have been better off taking his advise.

The sooner the clown (and in my opinion that is what he is) is either put out of office or Fine Gael have the guts to remove him from the position he holds, we are going no place in this country. He can take the likes of Phil Hogan with him who as proven to be an even bigger liability as an Environment minister than your man with Fianna Fail, the fellow from Meath, and that says a lot. And can he bring the entire Labour Party with him. Would rather to see a minority government in power than any of them near running the country.

Black Suir

Sully wrote: »

While Waterford isn't getting the jobs, Ireland is. Well over a thousands jobs announced this year and loads created weekly. No denying that to be fair.

There is an element of truth in what you say. Yes there is job announcements, but there is also plenty of job losses and they seem to be out numbering the jobs created. Did i hear today on the news that there is a rise of 400 on the live register. Was in Dungarvan today and passed through the shopping centre. I noticed that one shop is all closed up. It was a small shop, had 1 or 2 working in it, but they were crerating shops. Up further I see another of the larger shops and practically nothing left in it. I heard one woman saying when whats in it is sold thats it. I dont know how many full time jobs are in that shop but they also have students taken on every weekend and during the periods when the schools are closed.

Black Suir

ex_infantry man wrote: »

ya think sully? i think so as well, think people are fed up with being lead along by bull****ters that are in our government claiming to be creating jobs!!! no FDI coming into waterford rather leaving waterford!! the last big employer to enter waterford is genzyme, they would wanna get them thumb out and do something NOW about it!!!

And claiming they are getting people off the dole. They might be getting them off the live register by getting people to return to college or other places of education, but when these courses are finished, where will the jobs be. I thinks its time that this government stop telling us lies. I am not expecting anyone to agree with me, but they would be far better off telling us the truth, no matter how bad the news might be. We had enough lies in the life-time of the last few governments.

wellboytoo

The sooner this plebicite is over the better, Jesus me nut is done in with it, and the ridicolous debates that have gone on, Sinn feinn must be laughing with all the free publicity they have gotten.
ps did they ever vote yes for anything?

dlofnep

Quite frankly, I'm angered with the confusion in the air about this whole thing. The Treaty itself is actually quite a short read - and my understanding is that they want it enshrined in national law to keep our budget balanced, or we can be fined 0.1% of our GDP. As I understand it, this budgetary requirement already existed at a European level - but now they want it implemented and enshrined in the national law of all EU member states.

I'm voting no, and here is why. Our problems are not because we are spending beyond our means (Which we were), but rather - because we have no growth, and unsustainable levels of debt - with no real strategy in place in this treaty or within the EU as a whole to address these issues. While our spending contributes of course to our national debt, I feel that if we are ever to escape this debt trap - the only feasible way to do so is to sever non-sovereign debt. That is the only way we will ever be able to return to the markets at a reasonable rate.

We can only correct our spending so much in the state, before the cuts hit economic growth. We know that unless there is a reasonable level of disposable income in households, we simply cannot facilitate growth.

To be honest - I'm just pissed off with politics in this country. Enda Kenny has been one of the most spineless leaders in the history of this state. Between above-cap pay rises for advisors, and his inability to lead by example by drastically cutting the wages of all politicians in this state - he has demonstrated that he is incapable of demonstrating empathy with the general populace.

Nobody has put forward a compelling argument as to why I should vote in favour of this treaty. And until they do, I'll be voting no.

dlofnep

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sinn feinn must be laughing with all the free publicity they have gotten.

Are you suggesting that Sinn Féin (or any political party for that matter) should pay for the privilege of engaging in a televised debate about any given referendum? Perhaps you're in favour of the reintroduction of section 31?

Cabaal

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Sinn Féin (or any political party for that matter) should pay for the privilege of engaging in a televised debate about any given referendum? Perhaps you're in favour of the reintroduction of section 31?

I doubt he's referring to that,

I'd imagine instead he is making reference to SF's use of Support Ireland Euro 2012 vote no and other such nonsense that they've rolled out as a desperate attempt to whore themselves out in the media to get publicity

Not only have they turned themselves into media whores but they are misrepresenting the Irish team and the FAI, bang out of order to even in anyway suggest the FAI are support in one way or another.

If of course the FAI want to support one way or the other thats upto them, its not the job of SF to even merely suggest something.

wellboytoo

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Sinn Féin (or any political party for that matter) should pay for the privilege of engaging in a televised debate about any given referendum? Perhaps you're in favour of the reintroduction of section 31?

Where in the name of god did you get that idea? I am referring to the fact that they are getting practically 50% of TV and all media coverage because they are the de facto opposition as all other parties are for the Treaty.

Despite the fact that they are a very small, and in my mind negative and divisive party.

dlofnep

wellboytoo wrote: »

Where in the name of god did you get that idea? I am referring to the fact that they are getting practically 50% of TV and all media coverage because they are the de facto opposition as all other parties are for the Treaty.

Despite the fact that they are a very small, and in my mind negative and divisive party.

They are the main opposition party. The debates will include members from both the yes and no sides. What do you suggest, you have a debate with only members of the yes side for 85% of the debates? Your logic is atrocious.

wellboytoo

dlofnep wrote: »

They are the main opposition party. The debates will include members from both the yes and no sides. What do you suggest, you have a debate with only members of the yes side for 85% of the debates? Your logic is atrocious.

Ok I'll spell it out for you, it is more politically advantageous for SF to fight the No campaign, they don't really care about the treaty, it is a political act and nothing else.
I don't like SF don't trust SF .
They are "the main opposition party" with a minority of about six million! give me a break.

You question my logic? You are the one who construed a totally different meaning from my post and suggested I was a supporter of censorship.
Where did you get all that from one sentence?
Are you Keith Barry?

sparkling sea

wellboytoo wrote: »

Ok I'll spell it out for you, it is more politically advantageous for SF to fight the No campaign, they don't really care about the treaty, it is a political act and nothing else.
I don't like SF don't trust SF .
They are "the main opposition party" with a minority of about six million! give me a break.

And thats it in a nutshell - they will campaign for anything that may bring about their aim - they don't give a damn who suffers because of it as their history proves:(

wellboytoo

Looking like the result will be the exact opposite of the poll, what doe's this tell us about the members on here?;)

Cabaal

wellboytoo wrote: »

Looking like the result will be the exact opposite of the poll, what doe's this tell us about the members on here?;)

If you base it on the types of comments made on boards and the likes of the thejournal.ie it means that those that say they'll vote no on the internet in no way out number those (likely older people) that will vote yes in the real world.

So in short, the people on boards.ie don't accurately reflect Ireland.

Either that or alot of those people that say they'll vote no on the net either can't be arsed or perhaps are not old enough or can't vote (not in Ireland etc etc).

ROCKMAN

wellboytoo wrote: »

Looking like the result will be the exact opposite of the poll, what doe's this tell us about the members on here?;)

Tells me that maybe there's alot of the so called working class posting and it reflects the no vote in these areas around the country.

Cabaal

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Tells me that maybe there's alot of the so called working class posting and it reflects the no vote in these areas around the country.

Thats a very simplistic view and wouldn't be totally accurate,

There's also a high proportion of supporters of certainly party's and groups (occupy as an example) that frequent this forum and others on boards.ie, they certainly don't accurately reflect the so called "working class".

You also again see them popping up on thejournal.ie so they can vote down comments and comment about anything that they don't like.

ROCKMAN

Cabaal wrote: »

Thats a very simplistic view and wouldn't be totally accurate,

There's also a high proportion of supporters of certainly party's and groups (occupy as an example) that frequent this forum and others on boards.ie, they certainly don't accurately reflect the so called "working class".

You also again see them popping up on thejournal.ie so they can vote down comments and comment about anything that they don't like.

Ok I'll take your word for it about certain groups distorting the poll but just said we lose a third of the NO votes in the poll to these hidden agendas and we believe all the YES votes are honest no hidden partys agendas etc
We'll end up with a 44 to 37 vote which is 53/54% to 47/46% roughly Which is fairly near what we seen in alot of so called working class areas...