Garda lane correcting on m50 today....funny imo

Anan1

Deleted User wrote: »

At fault for what?

?? For blocking an overtaking lane. Seriously, you must know this?

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

But he is not blocking the traffic.

Of course he is. He's blocking an overtaking lane.

fasttalkerchat

MYOB wrote: »

He's forcing any traffic that wishes to overtake to needless use lane 3, as he is blocking lane 2.

If he is driving at the speed limit he is not blocking anyone from overtaking. If you want to drive faster than the legal limit that is a different matter.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

?? For blocking an overtaking lane.Of course he is. He's blocking an overtaking lane.

He's not blocking you, so aside from the off-chance that you might get a question right in a table quiz, what's your problem? A real problem, please, and not some fake made up problem.

Anan1

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If he is driving at the speed limit he is not blocking anyone from overtaking.

Yes he is.

Anan1

Deleted User wrote: »

He's not blocking you, so aside from the off-chance that you might get a question right in a table quiz, what's your problem? A real problem, please, and not some fake made up problem.

He is blocking me.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

?? For blocking an overtaking lane. Seriously, you must know this?Of course he is. He's blocking an overtaking lane.

We've already agreed this. So what?

My point is that if he's driving at a consistent 100 Km/h it is not a matter of the slightest interest to you.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

He is blocking me.

But he can't be. That is an incontrovertible fact. I pointed that out earlier, and you still haven't explained how it can be any different - nor can you.

Ronan|Raven

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Always seems to be someone strolling along doing 70-80Km in the middle lane.

That's something I've only seen from time to time.

It's a real pain in the arse.

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

Have another go:


Is this a real problem, or just a kiddy-on problem for anal retentives who read the rules of the road and maybe do the occasional table quiz?

If someone happens to be occupying the middle lane of the M50 at a cruise-controlled 100 Km/h, it doesn't present you with a real problem anyway. So, aside from some pressing need on your part to complain, why, er, complain?



Cheers.

I would suggest, that since you cannot appreciate the problem, and have to ask others, that you have not enough experience of driving, and in particular with regard to the effect of your driving on others. I couldn't care less what laws you obey, or don't obey. I just wish you'd have some consideration for other drivers around you.

By hogging the middle lane, whether at the posted speed limit or not, you are contributing to a general problem, and may be causing a particular problem to someone else without realising it. Just because you are not aware of the problem, does not mean that the problem does not exist. That simply suggests your general road awareness is not good enough. But then, do you even care if another driver is hindered by your actions?

In the UK, very few cars hog the middle lane, and if they do, chances are there's an Irish reg on it. Why then in Ireland, is it an epidemic?

There are two types of drivers. Drivers who want to learn, who learn, and who spend the whole rest of their driving lives learning. And then there are those who stop learning at an indiscriminate point to suit themselves, and refuse to take on board any more.

A good driving licensing system would weed out the drivers who don't want to improve themselves, and put them off the road for good.

It has little to do with your driving ability. It's all about attitude, in particular, attitude to everyone else on the road. And it appears that there are some very selfish drivers on this thread.

Anan1

Deleted User wrote: »

We've already agreed this. So what?

My point is that if he's driving at a consistent 100 Km/h it is not a matter of the slightest interest to you.

How do you figure this?

Deleted User wrote: »

But he can't be. That is an incontrovertible fact. I pointed that out earlier, and you still haven't explained how it can be any different - nor can you.

Which part of 'he's blocking me' are you having trouble with? He's forcing traffic that should have two lanes in which to overtake into one.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

By hogging the middle lane, whether at the posted speed limit or not, you are contributing to a general problem,

No I'm not, because I don't do this.

I'm well aware that drivers should keep to the left, so we'll both score a point when that one gets asked in a quiz.

My question is how does someone driving at a consistent 100 Km/h in the middle lane of the M50 cause you a problem? Not a kiddy-on problem, but a real and practical problem. Someone else tried to explain this and failed, and it does look as if you are going to go round and round and round in the same circles.

So I'll have another go. Some fella is cruising along in the middle lane of the M50 at a cruise-controlled 100 Km/h. Let's keep it simple and say that there's nothing in the left lane. He passes a junction. A few seconds later - let's say 10 seconds - you enter the motorway. You merge comfortably into the left lane because it is traffic free. Now, you are in the left lane, some 280 metres behind this fella.

We know your theoretical issue. You'd like him to follow the rules of the road properly (wouldn't we all?). But what, in practical terms, is your problem? The guy isn't blocking you, so why get all hot under the collar about it?

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

But he can't be. That is an incontrovertible fact. I pointed that out earlier, and you still haven't explained how it can be any different - nor can you.

Did it ever occur to you that the bloody problem could be ten, twenty or thirty cars behind you? All in a long chain, at a steady 100kph, trapping a car or a bus in the inside lane behind a lorry, or trapping a car in the outside lane, desperately trying to move left for a slip lane, or any one of a number of different scenarios?

People have a wonderful ability to concentrate on the ten feet visible in front of their bonnet, and on a rare occasion, even be mindful of the car in their mirror. Few enough see far enough ahead to read the road well in advance, and practically NONE keep an eye on what is happening quarter or half a kilometre BEHIND them.

It might be immaterial to YOU, but it is not immaterial to the drivers affected a long way away from you, and you might well be a party to it, or even the cause of it, without ever being aware, simply because you refuse to observe the road comprehensively.

Everything you do on the road has an inverse effect on everyone else. The best you can do is to at least try to reduce the wake you leave behind as much as possible. Be a leaf in the rushing stream, not a concrete block.

EDIT: You personally are not being blamed, but you are acting devil's advocate for the middle lane hog, and must appreciate the other point of view, and not simply dismiss it.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

How do you figure this?

Which part of 'he's blocking me' are you having trouble with? He's forcing traffic that should have two lanes in which to overtake into one.

But he's not forcing you to do anything.

Mr. Presentable

Deleted User wrote: »

At fault for what?

Ever see those signs at the ports etc where cars enter the country? Drive on the left.

This is where the driver in the middle lane is at fault. Failure to drive on the left.

Anan1

Deleted User wrote: »

But he's not forcing you to do anything.

Sorry pal, but you're just going to have to figure this one out on your own.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that the bloody problem could be ten, twenty or thirty cars behind you? All in a long chain, at a steady 100kph, trapping a car or a bus in the inside lane behind a lorry, or trapping a car in the outside lane, desperately trying to move left for a slip lane, or any one of a number of different scenarios?

People have a wonderful ability to concentrate on the ten feet visible in front of their bonnet, and on a rare occasion, even be mindful of the car in their mirror. Few enough see far enough ahead to read the road well in advance, and practically NONE keep an eye on what is happening quarter or half a kilometre BEHIND them.

It might be immaterial to YOU, but it is not immaterial to the drivers affected a long way away from you, and you might well be a party to it, or even the cause of it, without ever being aware, simply because you refuse to observe the road comprehensively.

Everything you do on the road has an inverse effect on everyone else. The best you can do is to at least try to reduce the wake you leave behind as much as possible. Be a leaf in the rushing stream, not a concrete block.

Why do you feel the need to personalise this? I drive in the left lane. If people are pootling along, I nip into the middle lane to get by. If the left lane is crowded and it's not safe to get back in I keep in the middle lane until I can get back, just as the rules of the road advise.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

Sorry pal, but you're just going to have to figure this one out on your own.

You know, I reckon I already have.

Some folk need to calm down on the roads.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

You know, I reckon I already have.

Some folk need to calm down on the roads.

And some need to learn the basics of driving.

You're not the guards so what speed someone else is doing is not your business
what is your business is keeping out of the way
rolling along in the middle lane with a clear driving lane on the left is being in the way

L1011

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If he is driving at the speed limit he is not blocking anyone from overtaking. If you want to drive faster than the legal limit that is a different matter.

The speed isn't relevant. He's blocking a lane.

ardmacha

If someone parks outside your gate, he is not forcing you to do anything, he is preventing you from doing something. Likewise inconsiderate driving on the road.

The general problem is not too hard to solve. Gardai on motorbikes are not ideal as it is hard to talk to people on motorways. Video is needed, if someone has a large vacant area to their left and is not at a junction then ticket them, with each offence doubling the fine.

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to personalise this? I drive in the left lane. If people are pootling along, I nip into the middle lane to get by. If the left lane is crowded and it's not safe to get back in I keep in the middle lane until I can get back, just as the rules of the road advise.

Edited to add this: You personally are not being blamed, but you are acting devil's advocate for the middle lane hog, and must appreciate the other point of view, and not simply dismiss it.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

And some need to learn the basics of driving.

One of the fundamentals of driving is to drive carefully, and driving within the speed limit would be a good start. As someone else said earlier, you can't pick and choose which laws to comply with - not that this stops people, of course.

TBH, I think the biggest problem with the M50 is more fundamental, and someone referenced it earlier in this thread. It's used too much by people nipping from one junction to the next, and I think that explains a lot of the poor driving. It's a pity we don't toll each section individually, and cut out a lot of that suburban traffic so that the road can serve its original function as Dublin's bypass.

But that's a whole other debate.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the fundamentals of driving is to drive carefully, and driving within the speed limit would be a good start. As someone else said earlier, you can't pick and choose which laws to comply with - not that this stops people, of course.

TBH, I think the biggest problem with the M50 is more fundamental, and someone referenced it earlier in this thread. It's used too much by people nipping from one junction to the next, and I think that explains a lot of the poor driving. It's a pity we don't toll each section individually, and cut out a lot of that suburban traffic so that the road can serve its original function as Dublin's bypass.

But that's a whole other debate.

Someone driving along at a cruise-controlled 100km/h is quite likely doing anywhere as low as 90km/h depending on how badly their speedometer reads.

People "nipping from one junction to the next" have the ancillary lane to use. This does not exempt you from the legal requirement to keep left except overtaking; and neither does a badly written paragraph in the not legally valid ROTR.

paddyland

There is a lot of emphasis here on the M50, and that is unfair, as the M50 is rather a special case, being a busier road with many closely spaced junctions.

Where the real problems are much more evident, is on the three lane section of the N7, which is practically motorway without full motorway status. Here, middle lane hogs cause far, far more of a problem, and if I had the time and inclination, I would list the problems.

Most of the problems can be reduced down to one problem, however, and that is this - that there too many uninformed and uneducated drivers, and more, there are a cohort of drivers who do not wish to change their driving style, do not wish to be told what to do, and do not wish to learn better driving. In extreme cases, they will insist on doing the wrong thing, in what can only be some kind of protest or rage issue.

The former need to be re-educated, and the latter, put off the road.

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

You're not the guards so what speed someone else is doing is not your business
what is your business is keeping out of the way
rolling along in the middle lane with a clear driving lane on the left is being in the way

I am indeed not the guards, so what lane someone is driving in is also not my business. If someone is a couple of hundred metres ahead of me driving at the speed limit, they'll stay a couple of hundred metres ahead of me. Not everyone can say that, but to be honest they'd be better off grappling with their own poor driving instead of looking for excuses to blame others.

There's a biblical quote somewhere about casting the first stone, and I have no doubt in the wide earthly world that it is relevant to more than a few of the contributions to this debate. Or was it beams and motes? Perhaps it was.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

Someone driving along at a cruise-controlled 100km/h is quite likely doing anywhere as low as 90km/h depending on how badly their speedometer reads.

Jaysus, is that the killer argument? Someone's cruise control might be acting up?

MYOB wrote: »

the legal requirement to keep left except overtaking; and neither does a badly written paragraph in the not legally valid ROTR.

Beams and motes, and all that. All I'm hearing is excuses; one lot of bad drivers looking to pin the rap on others for their road rage. This country has a lot of lousy drivers - they could all do with some better education and enforcement.

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

I am indeed not the guards, so what lane someone is driving in is also not my business. If someone is a couple of hundred metres ahead of me driving at the speed limit, they'll stay a couple of hundred metres ahead of me. Not everyone can say that, but to be honest they'd be better off grappling with their own poor driving instead of looking for excuses to blame others.

There's a biblical quote somewhere about casting the first stone, and I have no doubt in the wide earthly world that it is relevant to more than a few of the contributions to this debate. Or was it beams and motes? Perhaps it was.

You have been given a couple of brief examples of why middle lane hogging causes problems, without going into lengthy and time consuming detail.

Do you accept those arguments as genuine problems, or do you dismiss them?

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus, is that the killer argument? Someone's cruise control might be acting up?

No, the killer argument is that someone sitting in the middle lane is blocking the road, and isn't allowed to be there. That is all.

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

You have been given a couple of brief examples of why middle lane hogging causes problems, without going into lengthy and time consuming detail.

Do you accept those arguments as genuine problems, or do you dismiss them?

I've been given one example, which I don't think I've ever actually seen happen on the M50. Everything else has been theoretical barrack-room lawyer stuff.

On the other hand, I've seen more than a couple of "they're in my way" comments. Frankly, if I drive up the arse end of another car on the road because I'm too impatient to drive within the speed limit, it's a bit rich to blame the other driver for my impatience and my lousy driving. But if others want to do that - and on the evidence of this thread it would seem that they do - let them carry on. It's just another example of the "everyone else should just get out of my way" attitude that Irish people seem to be riddled with.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

No, the killer argument is that someone sitting in the middle lane is blocking the road, and isn't allowed to be there. That is all.

What, in case their cruise control mightn't be working properly? Or in case someone else (whoever that might be) wants to charge by them at above the speed limit without changing lanes?

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

What, in case their cruise control mightn't be working properly? Or in case someone else (whoever that might be) wants to charge by them at above the speed limit without changing lanes?

No, because they are not allowed to be there.

Why do you not get this?

Annuv

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been given one example, which I don't think I've ever actually seen happen on the M50. Everything else has been theoretical barrack-room lawyer stuff.

On the other hand, I've seen more than a couple of "they're in my way" comments. Frankly, if I drive up the arse end of another car on the road because I'm too impatient to drive within the speed limit, it's a bit rich to blame the other driver for my impatience and my lousy driving. But if others want to do that - and on the evidence of this thread it would seem that they do - let them carry on. It's just another example of the "everyone else should just get out of my way" attitude that Irish people seem to be riddled with.

Seeing someone like you who has found their way to a motoring forum to discuss this topic, suggesting that you have some interest in motoring, finding it so difficult to comprehend how middle lane hoggers cause so much inconvenience, traffic backlog and reduce the effectivness of multi lane carraigeways, one can only imagine how difficult it would be to convince the majority of the public who have no interest in motoring at all why they should remain in the leftmost lane unless overtaking

paddyland

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been given one example, which I don't think I've ever actually seen happen on the M50. Everything else has been theoretical barrack-room lawyer stuff.

On the other hand, I've seen more than a couple of "they're in my way" comments. Frankly, if I drive up the arse end of another car on the road because I'm too impatient to drive within the speed limit, it's a bit rich to blame the other driver for my impatience and my lousy driving. But if others want to do that - and on the evidence of this thread it would seem that they do - let them carry on. It's just another example of the "everyone else should just get out of my way" attitude that Irish people seem to be riddled with.

So what you've never seen, doesn't exist?

Some posters here are merely asking drivers to have regard for other drivers on the motorway, and failing that, invoking the law to reinforce what commonsense should dictate. Your argument appears to be that drivers should be allowed do what they like.

Well your various posts here stand for themselves. They are all the easier made under the cloak of anonymity. Try telling the cop on the motorbike that you should be allowed sit in the middle lane unnecessarily, and that it's none of his or anyone else's business. Good luck with that.

This thread proves one thing, there are some people who simply cannot be taught to drive, they will always try to pull everything arseways.

slimjimmc

Deleted User wrote: »

What, in case their cruise control mightn't be working properly? Or in case someone else (whoever that might be) wants to charge by them at above the speed limit without changing lanes?

It's not their cruise control the other poster is referring to it's their speedometer. International regulations allow require for speedometers to over-read within the range 4km/h+0% up to 4km/h+10%. Depending on the manufacturer it's possible the 100km/h shown by his speedo reading translates to a real speed of 87km/h. It's also possible it's spot on 96km/h. Either way he's likely to be holding up and annoying traffic actually moving at 100km/h.

mags1962

Laughin at some of this discussion, so what if I am in the "middle lane" doing the speed limit, 100 kph, who am I the speed police making sure no one can go faster than me? If the lane to the left is empty you are obligated to use it.
If you were on a two lane road and were doing the speed limit, 100 kph, in the right hand lane, left is still empty, and an ambulance or any other faster moving vehicle, doing 110 kph, comes up behind. Who is in the wrong lane with no consideration for other road users? What to do? move over? stay there? I'm doing the speed limit so it makes it ok and force the other traffic to undertake?
Oh wait, I know the answer, if I wasn't there in the first place I wouldn't be causing an issue. Why is is so hard to comprehend this?
The M50 is still a road like all the others and the same rules apply do they not?

fasttalkerchat

Anan1 wrote: »

Yes he is.

He is stopping you from doing over 100km/h I agree. However, that is also illegal.

Don't get me wrong, that would annoy me too but what the previous poster said is correct. If you stick to the speed limits he does not affect your driving in any way.

fasttalkerchat

mags1962 wrote: »

Laughin at some of this discussion, so what if I am in the "middle lane" doing the speed limit, 100 kph, who am I the speed police making sure no one can go faster than me? If the lane to the left is empty you are obligated to use it.
If you were on a two lane road and were doing the speed limit, 100 kph, in the right hand lane, left is still empty, and an ambulance or any other faster moving vehicle, doing 110 kph, comes up behind. Who is in the wrong lane with no consideration for other road users? What to do? move over? stay there? I'm doing the speed limit so it makes it ok and force the other traffic to undertake?
Oh wait, I know the answer, if I wasn't there in the first place I wouldn't be causing an issue. Why is is so hard to comprehend this?
The M50 is still a road like all the others and the same rules apply do they not?

You should always move for emergency vehicles, no excuses.

Anan1

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, that would annoy me too but what the previous poster said is correct. If you stick to the speed limits he does not affect your driving in any way.

Did they say that?

fasttalkerchat

Anan1 wrote: »

Did they say that?

I dunno. Not even sure what I said. I have a headache trying to figure all this out now.

Left lane unless overtaking or letting cars merge or for a lane closure.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

paddyland

paddyland wrote: »

So what you've never seen, doesn't exist?

You'd be surprised how different the road looks when you consistently drive below the speed limit.

If you drive impatiently, you will meet more "obstacles" and you will be "forced" to slow down or change lane more often. If you drive patiently, that will happen less often.

paddyland wrote: »

Some posters here are merely asking drivers to have regard for other drivers on the motorway, and failing that, invoking the law to reinforce what commonsense should dictate.

Sure they are. But I'm on the side of the angels here. You won't find me in the middle lane holding up the guys breaking the speed limit. Though you will find me saying calm down, slow down and you'll have fewer problems.

paddyland wrote: »

Try telling the cop on the motorbike that you should be allowed sit in the middle lane unnecessarily, and that it's none of his or anyone else's business. Good luck with that.

First of all, I wouldn't be in that position. I'm the guy in the inside lane, remember?

paddyland wrote: »

This thread proves one thing, there are some people who simply cannot be taught to drive, they will always try to pull everything arseways.

I'd agree with that - and most of them are giving themselves and everyone else increase blood pressure while they hoooooonnnnn around the place, and then blaming everyone else for getting in their way. For crying out loud, some of the excuses, rationalisations and cop-outs on this thread are a bit embarrassing.

Like I said, calm down, slow down and you'll have fewer problems. You'll also cause fewer problems.

Anyway, I'm only here because the "other driver drove off" thread caught my eye. I thought this might be a reasoned discussion about bad driving, rather than the usual guff I hear from one type of lousy Irish driver trying to distract, deflect and switch the blame to others. So why don't "ye boys" lash off there in the outside lane and continue giving out? I'll just cruise along here in the inside lane - I do believe that's my exit coming up.

John_Rambo

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd be surprised how different the road looks when you consistently drive below the speed limit

He's actually right here.

I often travel in the left lane at around 100 in a 120 zone because of sports stuff on the roof occasionally overtaking very slow vehicles in the middle lane, very relaxing!!

You get the overweight red faced Audi diesel drivers hammering down the overtaking lanes flashing and snorting anything they deem to be unsuitable to be in their lane, then when you get to the end of the motorway they are eighteen seconds ahead of you.

The rest of his points are so badly put, confusing and conflicting I'm not sure if he knows what point he is trying to get across. (sorry Ulysses!)

dr.fuzzenstein

Wonder where this thread will end up...



:cool:

im not inclined to start driving far below the limit just because some people think they're king of the road and the rules don't apply to them and everyone should adapt to them

as for overtaking in the left lane, that's a no as well

John_Rambo

bluewolf wrote: »

im not inclined to start driving far below the limit just because some people think they're king of the road

That's not what I said. It's not even close to what I said... Somebody driving in the left lane a few clicks below the limit is not acting like the king of the road, far from it.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. It's not even close to what I said... Somebody driving in the left lane a few clicks below the limit is not acting like the king of the road, far from it.

not you, the other fella

John_Rambo

bluewolf wrote: »

not you, the other fella

I'm not sure if he knows what he's saying.

Welease

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

He is stopping you from doing over 100km/h I agree. However, that is also illegal.

Don't get me wrong, that would annoy me too but what the previous poster said is correct. If you stick to the speed limits he does not affect your driving in any way.

Actually they do affect others driving .. and sometimes in a potentially dangerous manner ..

I spend 80% of my driving in the left lane (large 4x4 pickup, no rush so no point in burning tons of fuel especially doing 60 miles a day). Those hogging the middle lane (especially on the m50) form a barrier that splits the motorway in two (irrespective of any hypothetical situation being throw out here in the real world they are not sitting at 100kmph on cruise control their speed is moving up and down depending on the conditions). When their speeds drop below 100Km then I am left with a choice to undertake (illegal), or push out into middle lane traffic causing the middle lane hoggers to brake and create space (there goes the cruise control setting! )..

Under normal circumstances, it's annoying (and clogs traffic) but I'm not going to stress it.. It does however become dangerous when (as happens a lot in Ireland) those joining motor way take the same attitude of fk everyone else and either join at way to fast/slow a speed. Both situations leave people in the left lane blocked in and having to make evasive manouvres (heavy breaking or lane swapping) in order to avoid a collision. If those middle lane hoggers were in the left lane, then those directly affected by the merging traffic could seemlessly move into the
middle lane allowing all the traffic to flow with minimal disruption (as generally was the case in the 20 years of driving I did in the UK).

Middle lane hogging is a combination of bad driving, ignorance and lazyness (as they may have to may have to move out of the left lane once in a while to allow traffic to merge). What's saddening is (much like the roundabouts megathread before) even when people are educated with the correct road craft in those specific situations, they refuse to change behaviour, irrespective of the danger it can cause to other road users).
As an aside, thats why I have always felt that a bike licence should be mandatory before a car licence is given. It's amazing how more attentive and less arrogant the average driver would be if their bad driving led to them be smeared across the road... /end rant

Ludo

Been posted already????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZhdvl_P1Zc

dr.fuzzenstein

Ludo wrote: »

Been posted already????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZhdvl_P1Zc

I'll embed that, absolute poetry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZhdvl_P1Zc