Rally Car Crashes into Spectators in Cavan- Two Dead Seven Injured

Paddy@CIRL

Happyman42 wrote: »

You are right! They don't like being challenged, do they?:rolleyes:

I always pay full attention to the organizers during safety briefings before an event and listen to the advice of the marshals during. I would implore that others do the same. A car traveling at 10MPH or 100MPH has the potential to kill you so you must respect the sport at all times.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, motorsport is dangerous. If you think you have anything to add that could be of benefit to the rallying community - asides from your snide remarks - please share them.

Orando Broom

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

When it was originally built, it was around 30 years old but how recently was it rebuilt to meet safety standards? They might be 'old' cars to the untrained eye, but everyone of them has to meet modern safety standards or they can't compete. These are often new, modern cars underneath an 'old' skin.

Yep, you're absolutely right. Most of those cars are Trigger's Broom (same brush for 30 years; seven heads, eight handles) but still they are nowhere near the Evo or Subaru WRX. You have ex-WRC versions of both in these rallies and they are setting the pace, even with lesser drivers than you'd find in the Fords so the older cars have to be pushed a little harder.

That is not really the crux of the issue at all but it is a factor that has to be considered.

JP Liz V1

RIP

BUBBLE WRAP

red sean wrote: »

Happyman42, can you not go troll on a less sad and emotional forum please.

+1

I dont know if you seen this or not ulready, But the funs over. Move along....

Happyman42

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

I'll repeat what I said earlier, motorsport is dangerous. If you think you have anything to add that could be of benefit to the rallying community - asides from your snide remarks - please share them.

Another censorship FAIL ^ (it's getting tiresome now folks!)

PogMoThoin

Happyman42 wrote: »

Another censorship FAIL ^ (it's getting tiresome now folks!)

So are your posts, you've consistently trolled this thread, move along, nothing to see here, let the people pay their respect

ScumLord

Orando Broom wrote: »

That car was in or around 30 years old that crashed yesterday.

In a lot of cases older cars are actually faster than newer cars. Newer cars are much heavier due to modern safety measures. These safety measures may be slightly redundant in a rally car that has a roll cage but they still weigh down the car making older cars pretty competitive.

Happyman42

PogMoThoin wrote: »

So are your posts, you've consistently trolled this thread, move along, nothing to see here, let the people pay their respect

The ultimate respect you can pay to somebody who has needlessly died is to ensure that it doesn't happen to anybody else. There are rally people on here who are in denial that a problem exists in the sport. Their reaction is to flame and insult anybody who suggests that there is a problem. Orando Broom has actual experience of this as a marshall, yet nobody has anything to say about that culture.
If this was a thread set up for condolences that should have been included in the title.

BUBBLE WRAP

Happyman42 wrote: »

The ultimate respect you can pay to somebody who has needlessly died is to ensure that it doesn't happen to anybody else. There are rally people on here who are in denial that a problem exists in the sport. Their reaction is to flame and insult anybody who suggests that there is a problem. Orando Broom has actual experience of this as a marshall, yet nobody has anything to say about that culture.
If this was a thread set up for condolences that should have been included in the title.

Carefull, your contradicting yourself there. :rolleyes:

PogMoThoin

Happyman42 wrote: »

The ultimate respect you can pay to somebody who has needlessly died is to ensure that it doesn't happen to anybody else. There are rally people on here who are in denial that a problem exists in the sport. Their reaction is to flame and insult anybody who suggests that there is a problem. Orando Broom has actual experience of this as a marshall, yet nobody has anything to say about that culture.
If this was a thread set up for condolences that should have been included in the title.

Is that what you're doing? To me it looks like you're trying to get a reaction from the people close to the sport. I'd call it trolling. You've not made any safety suggestions, just undermined and belittled the job organisers and marshals do in trying to ensure safety. I've been to rallies, they do their best. The circuit is most likely over 100 miles long, there's no way they can police every single field. They also can't be held responsible for Joe public being an idiot.

Dyr

PogMoThoin wrote: »

They also can't be held responsible for Joe public being an idiot.

For joe public standing on the side of a public road at some point along a 100 mile circuit? How dare he?:mad:

Happyman42

PogMoThoin wrote: »

They also can't be held responsible for Joe public being an idiot.

Who is being disrespectful now?
I have pointed out the problems that caused me to stop going to rallies or allowing my children to go, I have posted a video(one of many available on youtube) where anybody with an ounce of sense can see that a risk of something going wrong is possible. Others have posted their personal experience as well, which doesn't show organisers in a good light imo. Why are you trying to stop the discussion of that?

If you have a problem with this not being a strictly condolence thread, take it up with the OP, who posted

Guess that's the end of fellas hanging off ditches with their iphones.

ch750536

There is a lot of people here trying to defend rallying here. That really is not needed. Nobody is saying to ban rallying.
There is definitely an issue with safety. Imagine the situation where in the same place in the same way there are deaths again next year. Would we simply shrug it off as a freak accident or would we find a safer way to allow people to watch the sport?
In all walks of life when accidents occur it is our duty to investigate and propose a way forward to avoid needless loss of life. Take the F1 example when the marshall was killed by a wheel, wheel tethers were introduced.
Rallying has for a long time lived by the 'nothing more we can do' mantra, wrongly in my opinion. On 2 occasions I have (with my kids) been put in danger due to a rally and poor management, an overhaul is needed.

Condolences to those involved and I hope they are not put in danger again.

PogMoThoin

Bambi wrote: »

For joe public standing on the side of a public road at some point along a 100 mile circuit? How dare he?:mad:

I've seen it many times, the marshals move the spectators from dangerous spectating points only for them to return as soon as the marshal disappears when the race starts

homer simpson

ch750536 wrote: »

There is a lot of people here trying to defend rallying here. That really is not needed. Nobody is saying to ban rallying.
There is definitely an issue with safety. Imagine the situation where in the same place in the same way there are deaths again next year. Would we simply shrug it off as a freak accident or would we find a safer way to allow people to watch the sport?
In all walks of life when accidents occur it is our duty to investigate and propose a way forward to avoid needless loss of life. Take the F1 example when the marshall was killed by a wheel, wheel tethers were introduced.
Rallying has for a long time lived by the 'nothing more we can do' mantra, wrongly in my opinion. On 2 occasions I have (with my kids) been put in danger due to a rally and poor management, an overhaul is needed.

Condolences to those involved and I hope they are not put in danger again.

... the bit I have in bold above;

hairyprincess wrote: »

I'm out. This is ridiculous.

Rallying is dangerous. I will back any and every campaign to have it banned. Nothing anybody will say will ever convince me otherwise.

RIP to the unfortunate souls who lost their lives. And I wish those who were injured a speedy recovery.

There are a few here including the above poster who were. Although when they were asked to provide some facts and reasoning to their post's they replied with "I'm out".

I don't think any person involved in the sport, be it an organiser, competitor or spectator, will deny that the safety can be improved, even if the unfortunate events in Cavan yesterday hadn't of happened they would still be saying that because nothing can ever be at the stage where it cannot Improve, for anyone who knows anything about rallying or even for those who don't they only need to go back and look at videos or pictures from 30 odd years ago and compare it to today to see the sport has come on in leaps and bounds since then as regards safety. But what is annoying the rallying fans (well myself) about this thread is there is a certain element of bandwagon jumpers who are using yesterday's events to drag the sport through the mud and are providing no reasoning behind it apart from "it's not safe enough". Some of them have been disrespectful into the bargain.

I, like Paddy, will discuss this to death because I don't like to see this happening to a sport that I devote a good portion of my free time to.

BUT this thread will just keep going around in circles with people for and against but I feel Paddy has summed it up perfectly below,

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

...What happened yesterday is not a fair representation of what happens at a rally or any motorsport event which takes place in Ireland.

*** unfollow's thread ***


*** or maybe not ***

Happyman42

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I've seen it many times, the marshals move the spectators from dangerous spectating points only for them to return as soon as the marshal disappears when the race starts

Stop the rally and call in the Gardai. The wrong thing to do is throw your hands in the air and give up.
It's amazing what effect peer pressure can have as well. If a rally is being held up because of the behaviour of a few then they will very soon become unpopular. It worked in helping to stamp out crowd trouble and overt racism in soccer. Rally organisers need to come up with a multi pronged approach and be stringent in implementing it.

Happyman42

homer_simpson wrote: »

... the bit I have in bold above;



There are a few here including the above poster who were. Although when they were asked to provide some facts and reasoning to their post's they replied with "I'm out".

I don't think any person involved in the sport, be it an organiser, competitor or spectator, will deny that the safety can be improved, even if the unfortunate events in Cavan yesterday hadn't of happened they would still be saying that because nothing can ever be at the stage where it cannot Improve, for anyone who knows anything about rallying or even for those who don't they only need to go back and look at videos or pictures from 30 odd years ago and compare it to today to see the sport has come on in leaps and bounds since then as regards safety. But what is annoying the rallying fans (well myself) about this thread is there is a certain element of bandwagon jumpers who are using yesterday's events to drag the sport through the mud and are providing no reasoning behind it apart from "it's not safe enough". Some of them have been disrespectful into the bargain.

I, like Paddy, will discuss this to death because I don't like to see this happening to a sport that I devote a good portion of my free time to.

This thread will just keep going around in circles with people for and against but I feel Paddy has summed it up perfectly below,



*** unfollow's thread ***

Heysel Stadium wasn't a fair representation of what happens at soccer matches either. But it ushered in wide ranging reforms.
Maybe it helps you understand concerns by putting posters on ignore or to 'unfollow' threads but I doubt it! :rolleyes:

ch750536

homer_simpson wrote: »

... the bit I have in bold above;



There are a few here including the above poster who were. Although when they were asked to provide some facts and reasoning to their post's they replied with "I'm out".

Obviously someone somewhere in the world wants rallying banned. My point (as I am sure you know...) is that there is not a 'down with this type of thing' media frenzy asking for the banning of rallying.

homer_simpson wrote: »

I don't think any person involved in the sport, be it an organiser, competitor or spectator, will deny that the safety can be improved, even if the unfortunate events in Cavan yesterday hadn't of happened they would still be saying that because nothing can ever be at the stage where it cannot Improve, for anyone who knows anything about rallying or even for those who don't they only need to go back and look at videos or pictures from 30 odd years ago and compare it to today to see the sport has come on in leaps and bounds since then as regards safety. But what is annoying the rallying fans (well myself) about this thread is there is a certain element of bandwagon jumpers who are using yesterday's events to drag the sport through the mud and are providing no reasoning behind it apart from "it's not safe enough". Some of them have been disrespectful into the bargain.

There are a lot of angry people about the deaths and so they are loud when voicing concerns. You should allow people some leeway on a sensitive topic just now. Although I have not read all the thread I haven't seen anything immediately disrespectful (though a 'some idiots' comment was misguided ).

De Hipster

The upset and concerns over safety are understandable, but to people from outside the rallying community, i would ask that sensitivity is applied, these people were part of what is a small and united national community, also a little understanding of the sport is advised before jumping in with solutions to problems as they are perceived with no knowledge of the technicalities and regulations of the sport and it's safety records to date.

How would people feel if I demanded the banning of all ball-related sports due to the recent upsurge in the media coverage of tragic adult sudden deaths while playing/training etc?

red sean

ch750536 wrote: »

Obviously someone somewhere in the world wants rallying banned. My point (as I am sure you know...) is that there is not a 'down with this type of thing' media frenzy asking for the banning of rallying.

There are a lot of angry people about the deaths and so they are loud when voicing concerns. You should allow people some leeway on a sensitive topic just now. Although I have not read all the thread I haven't seen anything immediately disrespectful (though a 'some idiots' comment was misguided ).

You should have. Joining a story half way through is hardly being astute.
What is particularly annoying is poster/s constantly repeating a mantra in a manner similar to a troll. People in the rallying fraternity are hurting today due to the loss of two colleagues, and that must also be respected.
Somebody trolling to deliberately get up the noses of other posters is very wrong.

Paddy@CIRL

Happyman42 wrote: »

Heysel Stadium wasn't a fair representation of what happens at soccer matches either. But it ushered in wide ranging reforms.
Maybe it helps you understand concerns by putting posters on ignore or to 'unfollow' threads but I doubt it! :rolleyes:

There have been huge, huge changes in rallying over the years (especially since the mid to late 1980s) where spectator control has been dramatically improved. Take a look at this video from the Group B era to see what I mean ...

http://youtu.be/6-bpeREC4RA

Everyone in motorsport has and always will push to make things safer for all involved. I personally don't think you can ever make an event perfectly safe, but I would love to be proven wrong on that.

I'm genuinely asking you, without any malice, what do you think could realistically be done to improve safety at these events?

ch750536

Disturbing pictures/video of the crash, watch at your own discretion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18239231

ch750536

It is quite clearly not a safe place to stand, after a car has left the ground, any small tug on the wheel can cause you to lose control. Really sad.

Happyman42

De Hipster wrote: »

The upset and concerns over safety are understandable, but to people from outside the rallying community, i would ask that sensitivity is applied, these people were part of what is a small and united national community, also a little understanding of the sport is advised before jumping in with solutions to problems as they are perceived with no knowledge of the technicalities and regulations of the sport and it's safety records to date.

How would people feel if I demanded the banning of all ball-related sports due to the recent upsurge in the media coverage of tragic adult sudden deaths while playing/training etc?

Because that kind of death has nothing to do with the sport per se, but as you mentioned it, awareness is the key here. Defibulators are now a common sight in sport clubs and at venues. People are aware of what is happening and intervene quicker. That is a responsible reaction.
A better analogy would be allowing somebody with a known heart condition play a strenuous sport like football.

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

There have been huge, huge changes in rallying over the years (especially since the mid to late 1980s) where spectator control has been dramatically improved. Take a look at this video from the Group B era to see what I mean ...

http://youtu.be/6-bpeREC4RA

Everyone in motorsport has and always will push to make things safer for all involved. I personally don't think you can ever make an event perfectly safe, but I would love to be proven wrong on that.

I'm genuinely asking you, without any malice, what do you think could realistically be done to improve safety at these events?

Go to the Circuit of Ireland site or the Donegal Rally site and buried away in the pages you will find a list of do's and dont's advice for spectators. 'Advice' not warnings, advice. There is not one word about sanctions against those who repeatly ignore marshalls. The point here is that 'not enough is being done'.

Mountainsandh

If a 100 mile rally is too hard to police, one way to improve safety would be to shorten the distances, and police them better.

If the local 20 miles rally is too hard to police for a smaller club, this should be brought down to a more manageable 10 miles for example.

homer simpson

ch750536 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18239231

With all due respect you should really say that that is a Video of the crash!!! I for one did not want to see it as I know both :eek::eek::eek:

Disgraceful stuff with the BBC posting up that video if you ask me. I just add's further weight to the fact that this discussion should not be happening now! the 2 deceased are not even buried yet. So so so disrespectful!!!!

:mad::mad::mad:

ch750536

homer_simpson wrote: »

With all due respect you should really say that that is a Video of the crash!!! I for one did not want to see it as I know both :eek::eek::eek:

Disgraceful stuff with the BBC posting up that video if you ask me. I just add's further weight to the fact that this discussion should not be happening now! the 2 deceased are not even buried yet. So so so disrespectful!!!!

:mad::mad::mad:

Sorry if offended but I was posting the front page of the BBC and it does have a warning that you have to click on to play it.
Is also titled 'Cavan motor rally crash video'.

De Hipster

ch750536 wrote: »

Disturbing pictures/video of the crash, watch at your own discretion

Please out of respect for all involved, remove the link.

KeithM89_old

De Hipster wrote: »

Please out of respect for all involved, remove the link.

Theres no need to remove the link, no ones being forced to watch and theres a clear warning.

Happyman42

Wasn't expecting to see that either.
But I think the BBC have done a service by putting it online. It is disturbing but I hope it underlines that something has to be done. There where many many people needlessly in peril there yesterday. There is no hiding place for the organisers I'm afraid.

And please, I am not gloating or even asking for the sport to be banned, I'm just more sad and shocked.

BUBBLE WRAP

Happyman42 wrote: »

Wasn't expecting to see that either.
But I think the BBC have done a service by putting it online. It is disturbing but I hope it underlines that something has to be done. There where many many people needlessly in peril there yesterday. There is no hiding place for the organisers I'm afraid.

And please, I am not gloating or even asking for the sport to be banned, I'm just more sad and shocked.

Sure! :rolleyes:

Mountainsandh

De Hipster wrote: »

This is very true, however the clubs and governing body take every available opportunity to attempt to educate the attending public - TV & radio advert campaigns in conjunction with the RSA - 'Keep the Race in it's Place', local press segments about the safety standards and the structure of stages. Explanations of the safety signage erected at access points, guides to safe viewing, warnings about having children at events, the potential dangers etc...all posted in press, the rally event programme etc.

Organisers cannot force people to read these & really do make every effort to ensure the utmost safety of event volunteers, competitors, residents and spectators over the length of the event closed route & between stages on public roads.

I have never seen a TV ad or heard a radio ad, in the press in my locality I think there were lists of stages and teams involved. There were no safety briefings that I remember.
Also as I mentioned before, I received a letter the first year the rally was passing my front gate, simply stating they were coming that date. There was a phone number for the chief marshall allright, other than that, no safety advice whatsoever. Meant to keep the letter at the time, should have done so. Thought to ring the marshall too, but thought, hell, why should I, a resident on the road, with zero involvement in this and zero interest in being involved, ring them ? I naively thought there might be someone on my stretch of road that day I could have asked questions of.
I saw no one.

It is ok to debate these things, I don't see disrespect in a debate on people's view of safety at rallying events. There is nothing offensive in debating safety ?

De Hipster

I for one am deeply saddened by the BBC's inclusion of this footage on thier website & have asked that out of respect for the dead, injured and friends & families that they remove it.

There are two funerals in the coming days and many weeks and/or months of recovery for others injured.

For anyone else who feels the same, the comment form is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ifs/hi/newsid_4000000/newsid_4000500/4000545.stm

ch750536

That kind of location for me is high risk. Even if the organisers were to target only the high risk areas it would improve the safety in a huge way. I appreciate it looks like it was someones property so the power to force someone to move may not be there but educating people in the high risk areas has to be key.

Was very similar to one of my own experiences. Rally was coming past my house but I was not notified (no signs or flyer through the door), I pulled out with the kids in the car and narrowly missed a head on collision at the brow of the hill. Easily avoided with notifications.

My name is URL

The video has been taken down. That didn't take long!

Happyman42

De Hipster wrote: »

I for one am deeply saddened by the BBC's inclusion of this footage on thier website & have asked that out of respect for the dead, injured and friends & families that they remove it.

There are two funerals in the coming days and many weeks and/or months of recovery for others injured.

For anyone else who feels the same, the comment form is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ifs/hi/newsid_4000000/newsid_4000500/4000545.stm

Of course it's distressing and I would never want the families and loved ones to see it if they didn't want to. But you can't censor it on their behalf, would you similarly ask for 9-11 footage not to be shown? What about stuff that happens live...Aryton Senna's crash or the myriad of crashes that happen in formula one. I think you are over-reacting here, the video has a clear warning about what it is and what it contains.

cocalolaman

Some people are saying that it's not safe from where the spectators are viewing. (Standing on a grassy mound, next to a ditch, etc.) There is normally not many places where the spectators can view the cars without being obscured by trees or having to stand far away on a hill.

Purpose built stands for viewing from a distance are not much of an option because it would be on someones land or property and the ground is normally too uneven to erect the stands. They would have to be permanent. But not all rally stages are in permanent use so you can't build a stand and then just leave it there as it doesn't get used.

Something else that couldn't be used is a catch fence, for many of the same reasons as above. A lot of rally stages are temporary and the stages go through peoples property, people who don't want a large metal fence sticking out of their front garden.

My point is, every safety measure in the history of motorsport can be in effect but it still wouldn't stop unusual accidents from occuring. Here's an example vid, the car goes through a sand trap which normally slows the cars down, over tyre walls which normally stop the car, and through a small catch fence which would normally stop just tyres from hitting the spectators, because nobody expects a car to even reach that point in a crash. This is an exaple of a freak accident, as the other drivers say..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFI6x2I7AC0

The only solution would be to create purpose built rally stages, which nobody has the money for.

EDIT: Just to be clear nobody was killed in the video above.

ch750536

There will always be the case of safety in place not being good enough. This case would be like having the spectators for the shooting in the olympics standing 5ft each side of the target, you wouldn't dream of doing it. Once sneeze (which could have caused the accident) and the wheels are lost.

Happyman42

cocalolaman wrote: »

Some people are saying that it's not safe from where the spectators are viewing. (Standing on a grassy mound, next to a ditch, etc.) There is normally not many places where the spectators can view the cars without being obscured by trees or having to stand far away on a hill.

Purpose built stands for viewing from a distance are not much of an option because it would be on someones land or property and the ground is normally too uneven to erect the stands. They would have to be permanent. But not all rally stages are in permanent use so you can't build a stand and then just leave it there as it doesn't get used.

Something else that couldn't be used is a catch fence, for many of the same reasons as above. A lot of rally stages are temporary and the stages go through peoples property, people who don't want a large metal fence sticking out of their front garden.

My point is, every safety measure in the history of motorsport can be in effect but it still wouldn't stop unusual accidents from occuring. Here's an example vid, the car goes through a sand trap which normally slows the cars down, over tyre walls which normally stop the car, and through a small catch fence which would normally stop just tyres from hitting the spectators, because nobody expects a car to even reach that point in a crash. This is an exaple of a freak accident, as the other drivers say..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFI6x2I7AC0

The only solution would be to create purpose built rally stages, which nobody has the money for.

EDIT: Just to be clear nobody was killed in the video above.

There was a line of aprox 100 people practically standing on the road, it doesn't take much intelligence to work out what might happen at the speeds the car was travelling at. As I said, the video means that the organisers have no place to hide in terms of answering questions on health and safety proceedures, wilful negilence imo, hopefully now something will be done.

cocalolaman

Happyman42 wrote: »

There was a line of aprox 100 people practically standing on the road.

Source? Was it shown on the video? It was taken down before I could see it.

Happyman42

cocalolaman wrote: »

Source? Was it shown on the video? It was taken down before I could see it.

Yes, after the crest, the driver wouldn't even have seen them until he came over the crest in the air, they where right on the roadside, some of them leaning out over flimsy safety tapes, waving and cheering at the driver. The car turned sideways in the air, landed and then travelled sideways at collosal speed down the road to the fatal impact.

planetX

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I have never seen a TV ad or heard a radio ad, in the press in my locality I think there were lists of stages and teams involved. There were no safety briefings that I remember.
Also as I mentioned before, I received a letter the first year the rally was passing my front gate, simply stating they were coming that date. There was a phone number for the chief marshall allright, other than that, no safety advice whatsoever. Meant to keep the letter at the time, should have done so. Thought to ring the marshall too, but thought, hell, why should I, a resident on the road, with zero involvement in this and zero interest in being involved, ring them ? I naively thought there might be someone on my stretch of road that day I could have asked questions of.
I saw no one.

It is ok to debate these things, I don't see disrespect in a debate on people's view of safety at rallying events. There is nothing offensive in debating safety ?

They don't advertise the location in the press because people have to buy the program to find out - that's about money.
I had no visits either, just a letter stating that I would have no access to my road between certain hours (all day). It meant being out all day with my child and dog, better than being in listening to the roaring engines - I think they should have paid for our dinner though...
My wish to see the end of rallies has nothing to do with safety. It's about closing a public road and ruining a Sunday for people who dislike the sport.
Think of a sport you hate.... say cricket, and now imagine that you are forced either in or out of your house all day because someone wants to come and play cricket on your road all day. Why should this be allowed?

De Hipster

cocalolaman wrote: »

Source? Was it shown on the video? It was taken down before I could see it.

There were NO people standing on the road, they were above the road behind the hedge. Others were i the garden of the house...footage was grainy and difficult to see much bar the car - which was the focal point.

PogMoThoin

planetX wrote: »

They don't advertise the location in the press because people have to buy the program to find out - that's about money.
I had no visits either, just a letter stating that I would have no access to my road between certain hours (all day). It meant being out all day with my child and dog, better than being in listening to the roaring engines - I think they should have paid for our dinner though...
My wish to see the end of rallies has nothing to do with safety. It's about closing a public road and ruining a Sunday for people who dislike the sport.
Think of a sport you hate.... say cricket, and now imagine that you are forced either in or out of your house all day because someone wants to come and play cricket on your road all day. Why should this be allowed?

You don't hear the people of Clonliffe Road campaigning for the ban on football, and this is a couple of weekends in the year. It's one day a year, get over it.

Happyman42

De Hipster wrote: »

There were NO people standing on the road, they were above the road behind the hedge.

I didn't say they were standing on the road.
Could somebody else who saw the video verify what I seen?

ch750536

De Hipster wrote: »

There were NO people standing on the road, they were above the road behind the hedge.

There were no people on the road.
There were people standing within 1ft of the road.
There was a hedge most of the way (though what protection is a hedge?)
The impact point was the opening of a driveway with no hedge and people standing at the driveway entrance.
It is damning evidence of something. If the people were told of the danger then it shows what can happen when you ignore officials. If they were not told then the organisers need to rethink their approach to safety.
This was not a freak accident where a series of errors leads to tragedy, it is simply a driver losing control, something to be expected at high speeds on country roads. Something needs to change.

Neady_b

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes, after the crest, the driver wouldn't even have seen them until he came over the crest in the air, they where right on the roadside, some of them leaning out over flimsy safety tapes, waving and cheering at the driver. The car turned sideways in the air, landed and then travelled sideways at collosal speed down the road to the fatal impact.

You sir are talking crap. I seen the video too. there were people standing on top of the crest not after it, there were people standing in a layby not on the road. There was no cheering and waving at the driver, there was cries as then seen he was going to crash. He didn't come over the crest "turned sideways in the air" the car snapped upon landing and it wasn't collosal speed either, you've never been to a rally if you think it is .

The place where the accident happened the people were inside a fence in a garden some 30 meteres from the crest. Not on the road.

You need to get a life and stop getting off on this if you ask me!

Bruthal

hairyprincess wrote: »

I'm out. This is ridiculous.

Rallying is dangerous. I will back any and every campaign to have it banned. Nothing anybody will say will ever convince me otherwise.

General everyday driving is dangerous, after all, hundreds are killed by it every year.

Have you any plans for a campaign to ban that?

Are there any other items you would campaign to have banned because people have been killed by them? Or are you just fixated on rallying?

planetX

PogMoThoin wrote: »

You don't hear the people of Clonliffe Road campaigning for the ban on football, and this is a couple of weekends in the year. It's one day a year, get over it.

it's not - they're bloody coming back again for a second go this year.
They don't close the roads for cycle races here, and the poor cyclists are practically run off the road by overtaking cars. I will certainly be writing letters and maybe I'll try parking my car outside my house next time. Let them go find a track to race around instead.

De Hipster

ch750536 wrote: »

There were no people on the road.
There were people standing within 1ft of the road.
There was a hedge most of the way (though what protection is a hedge?)
The impact point was the opening of a driveway with no hedge and people standing at the driveway entrance.
It is damning evidence of something. If the people were told of the danger then it shows what can happen when you ignore officials. If they were not told then the organisers need to rethink their approach to safety.
This was not a freak accident where a series of errors leads to tragedy, it is simply a driver losing control, something to be expected at high speeds on country roads. Something needs to change.

Due to not one but two separate investigation which are currently underway, I am not in a position to confirm nor deny what people were or were not told...this is for the invstigations only...but it will be discussed, verified and included in any findings.

Until there is an official conclusion I suggest that speculation is ended.