Eucharistic Congress

I Heart Internet

Plowman wrote: »

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That wasn't really Eileen Dunne on the altar was it??? I know she looked like her but come on.........it wasn't (?)

Plowman

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Onesimus

Whats wrong with having altar girls serving? It was approved by Bl.Pope John Paul II. There is nothing theologically wrong with that at all. There were female deacons in the early Church serving at baptisms and the like although they were not ordained like Male deacons.

Calling a woman an eejit? Come on my friend get a grip.

Brer Fox

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Actually, there is doubt over the validity of Anglican orders-which is why Anglican ministers who become Catholic priests are given a conditional ordination, which as I understand it allows for the fact that they may have been validly ordained.

In any case, anyone can give a blessing. This is a wonderful ecumenical gesture imo.

Pope Leo XIII said they were null and void.

It scandalises the faithful to have a Protestant clergyman blessing them like a priest. It is scandalous and abusive.

Apostolicae Curae is the title of a papal bull, issued in 1896 by Pope Leo XIII, declaring all Anglican ordinations to be "absolutely null and utterly void".

In 1998 Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and later Pope Benedict XVI) issued a doctrinal commentary to accompany Pope John Paul II’s apostolic letter Ad Tuendam Fidem, which established penalties in Canon law for failure to accept “definitive teaching”. Despite the ongoing work of the ecumenical Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC), Ratzinger’s commentary listed Leo XIII’s declaration in Apostolicae Curae that Anglican orders are “absolutely null and utterly void” as one of the teachings to which Catholics must give “firm and definitive assent”.[13] These teachings are not understood by the Church as revealed doctrines but are rather those the church’s teaching authority finds to be so closely connected to God's revealed truth that belief in them is required to safeguard the divinely revealed truths of the Christian Faith. Those who fail to give “firm and definitive assent”, according to the commentary, would “no longer be in full communion with the Catholic Church”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolicae_Curae#Current_status

Doc Farrell

Plowman wrote: »

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Do you mean Eileen Dunne? I understand she is helping to host the event for RTÉ. She presents a weekly faith programme on Radio 1 called The God Slot.[/Quote]
She's only been on the telly every day for the last 25 years.... I don't think that she is full of dread.
Brer if u want copies of the homilies contact the Dominicans via the link I gave. Hold off on sharing with them some of your more colourful views. Or not.

Plowman

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Brer Fox

Plowman wrote: »

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That makes it even more ridiculous. Why was a grown woman acting like an altar boy? I mean a girl altar boy is one thing, but a big grown woman? Looked really daft imho. She's not even pretty.

Onesimus wrote: »

Whats wrong with having altar girls serving? It was approved by Bl.Pope John Paul II. There is nothing theologically wrong with that at all. There were female deacons in the early Church serving at baptisms and the like although they were not ordained like Male deacons.

Calling a woman an eejit? Come on my friend get a grip.

Pope JPII didn't want them. But then while he was in hospital, the liberals pulled a fast one and got him to approve them. In any case, look at what JPII said before and then wonder why he did a u-turn and approve girl altar boys.

Doc Farrell wrote: »

She's only been on the telly every day for the last 25 years.... I don't think that she is full of dread.
Brer if u want copies of the homilies contact the Dominicans via the link I gave. Hold off on sharing with them some of your more colourful views. Or not.

Doc my views are only those of the Church. The Church over history has rejected them. It was only in the face of persistent disobedience that they were sadly approved by the Church, but even now, the best practise guidelines say that boys should be favoured.

I Heart Internet

Doc Farrell wrote: »

She's only been on the telly every day for the last 25 years.... I don't think that she is full of dread.
Brer if u want copies of the homilies contact the Dominicans via the link I gave. Hold off on sharing with them some of your more colourful views. Or not.

I think there's some confusion here.

Eileen Dunne MC'd in a television capacity for the Sunday opening event - like Bryan Dobson did.

There WAS a woman altar server who looked similar to Eileen Dunne who seemed to be "head server" on the altar for the Sunday Mass. As someone said she appeared, at times, to be in a (liturgical) MC's role.

I really, really don't think Eileen Dunne of RTE was serving Mass on Sunday.

The organisers should have drafted in 6 seminarians from Maynooth to do the job - end of.

Brer Fox

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I think there's some confusion here.

Eileen Dunne MC'd in a television capacity for the Sunday opening event - like Bryan Dobson did.

There WAS a woman alter server who looked similar to Eileen Dunne who seemed to be "head server" on the altar for the Sunday Mass. As someone said she appeared to be in a (liturgical) MC's role.

I really, really don't think Eileen Dunne of RTE was serving Mass on Sunday.

The organisers should have drafted in 6 seminarians from Maynooth to do the job - end of.

That's hilarious. So there's some Eileen Dunne wannabee with priestly aspirations!

I Heart Internet

Brer Fox wrote: »

That's hilarious. So there's some Eileen Dunne wannabee with priestly aspirations! Maybe she escaped from an asylum - she was wearing a white tunic after all so who knows!

But I agree, there are Maynooth seminarians who should have carried out this role. But the liberals had other ideas. Enter Eileen Dunne lookalike stage left.

Totally unwarranted and unchristian comments Brer Fox.

All the servers were undoubtedly doing there level best to provide the most dignified service possible for the celebration of the Holy Mass. If you have issues with girl servers instead of boys at the event you should target your scorn at the organisers NOT individuals doing what was asked of them by the organisers.

Plowman

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Brer Fox

It's on EWTN now. Live. The blond lady is back, along with the two oriental girl altar boys.

On a better note, Archbishop Martin just announced that the Papal Legate, Card. Ouellet is doing a penitential pilgrimage on Lough Derg at the request of Pope Benedict for the victims of abuse.

Benny_Cake

Brer Fox wrote: »

It's on EWTN now. Live. The blond lady is back, along with the two oriental girl altar boys.

On a better note, Archbishop Martin just announced that the Papal Legate, Card. Ouellet is doing a penitential pilgrimage on Lough Derg at the request of Pope Benedict for the victims of abuse.

You're coming across as something of an armchair critic here. A lot of of people have put huge effort into making this a success and all you can do is make snide, sexist remarks. Now given that the football is on at the moment there are a lot of experts out there sitting in front of their TVs, but it's bizarre to see it in the context of a Eucharistic Congress.

Brer Fox

Benny_Cake wrote: »

You're coming across as something of an armchair critic here. A lot of of people have put huge effort into making this a success and all you can do is make snide, sexist remarks. Now given that the football is on at the moment there are a lot of experts out there sitting in front of their TVs, but it's bizarre to see it in the context of a Eucharistic Congress.

Yes and despite the efforts, there are some who have their own pet agendas, which is why I'm critiquing them.

gimmebroadband

I've been recording it so that I can watch it again and again!

neemish

Was there both Sunday and yesterday. Brilliant atmosphere and a positive experience of Catholicism. There are things that wouldn't be to my taste, but the postive overwhelming won out.

It's hard to feel what it's like from the TV. Go to one of the free events in the Host Churches or join in the Eucharistic Procession tomorrow evening. Would def recommend it

gimmebroadband

neemish wrote: »

Was there both Sunday and yesterday. Brilliant atmosphere and a positive experience of Catholicism. There are things that wouldn't be to my taste, but the postive overwhelming won out.

It's hard to feel what it's like from the TV. Go to one of the free events in the Host Churches or join in the Eucharistic Procession tomorrow evening. Would def recommend it

I wish I could go there - I live on the West Coast, and money is tight, but I will be there in spirit!

Good to hear that everything is going well there, I would appreciate a prayer or two!

georgieporgy

neemish wrote: »

Was there both Sunday and yesterday. Brilliant atmosphere and a positive experience of Catholicism. There are things that wouldn't be to my taste, but the postive overwhelming won out.

It's hard to feel what it's like from the TV. Go to one of the free events in the Host Churches or join in the Eucharistic Procession tomorrow evening. Would def recommend it

You're right. You can't beat the live experience. And we must remember this is an international Eucharistic event. Not just a 'catholic only' event. A bit like the Papal audiences in Rome where you will always find members of other religions accorded a place of honour.

Watching things on tv can give a slightly miopic view. You miss the buzz and, dare I say it, miss the whole thing really.

I wouldn't worry about altar girls. That little issue will sort itself out in the fullness of time, just like the bad english Mass translations that annoyed my generation in the seventies.

mdebets

To get back to the original topic of the thread, the Eucharistic Congress, here are some more pictures from yesterday

mornings
afternoon
evening

and today.

The Ecumenical service yesterday was really beautiful, looking more as to what unites us rather than what divides us (not like some posters here, who are fortunately in the minority in real life).

The Taize service with Br. Alois in the evening was even better.

Alice1

mdebets, your pictures are lovely and make it all the more real for me. I couldn't be there and I love seeing your pics. Thanks very much.

Onesimus

Very nice photos Mdebets. I pray you can make it around to the Eastern Catholic Liturgy on this coming Saturday evening at 17:00. It is all in English too.

I pray that many others will come around and enjoy our byzantine traditions.

Onesimus

robindch

In case anybody's interested, there's an A+A thread on the congress here where this thread has been referred to, albeit tangentially.

Brer Fox

I apologise to anyone who was offended by my comments about the Eileen Dunne look-a-like altar server. I still think it is not appropriate, but my comments were offensive so I edited my post.

Sonics2k

I don't think 'offensive' is the word people had in mind.

Maybe a few other choice words though...

georgieporgy

Brer Fox wrote: »

I apologise to anyone who was offended by my comments about the Eileen Dunne look-a-like altar server. I still think it is not appropriate, but my comments were offensive so I edited my post.

I found the few posts rather amusing and not at all offensive. In any case I tend to forgive catholics when they occasionally go on a bit of a rant, as well as all the other REALLY offensive types;)

Alice1

Brer Fox wrote: »

I apologise to anyone who was offended by my comments about the Eileen Dunne look-a-like altar server. I still think it is not appropriate, but my comments were offensive so I edited my post.

Apology accepted Brer Fox and much appreciated. I don't suppose we shall ever be in full agreement, nonetheless, I appreciate your taking the time to apologise.

Onesimus

@brer fox : We love you Donatello

Apologies accepted of course. Love ya to bits.

Onesimus

mdebets

Some more pictures from yesterday:
General
Eucharistic Procession

mdebets

To get back on topic some pictures from yesterday's Congress:

Part 1
Part 2

prinz

Brer Fox wrote: »

It scandalises the faithful to have a Protestant clergyman blessing them like a priest. It is scandalous and abusive.

'Tis terrible Joe, terrible.

Fuinseog

Onesimus wrote: »

Anyone going? I'll be going for just a day ticket. I find the whole event for the full seven days to be too expensive and can only afford it for the one day. I'm going to see His Beatitude Patriarch Sviatoslav of the UGCC on June 16th. He is celebrating Divine Liturgy at 17:00 in English.

There is late booking online until June 4th.

www.iec2012.ie

I went along. Good atmosphere. sad to see that Diarmuid Martin had a bodyguard walking alongside him.

gimmebroadband

mdebets wrote: »

To get back on topic some pictures from yesterday's Congress:

Part 1
Part 2

Great shots, thanks for sharing!

Brer Fox

prinz wrote: »

'Tis terrible Joe, terrible.

Joe Duffy?

Fuinseog wrote: »

I went along. Good atmosphere. sad to see that Diarmuid Martin had a bodyguard walking alongside him.

Cardina Oulette had two bodyguards. You only get one if you're an Archbishop, and bishops get no bodyguards. Pope Benedict gets like 15 bodyguards.

itac

Mdebets, I keep meaning to tell you to come over and say hello-I'm the camerawoman, was up top today for the Mass-always nice to meet boardsies irl! Some really lovely shots there, kudos

Brer Fox

mdebets wrote: »

To get back on topic some pictures from yesterday's Congress:

Part 1
Part 2

Are you the photographer mdebets?

Brer Fox

The procession looks excellent. I would love to have been there. My only criticism: the monstrance. It is minimalistic. Why is it that there is an aversion in the Catholic Church in Ireland to anything that is remotely 'traditional'? You see it also in places like Lough Derg, where the Blessed Sacrament is kept in a plexiglass box with weird lights. The host is also cracked (an abuse to be sure) to 'represent broken humanity' or something like that.

neemish

Brer Fox wrote: »

The procession looks excellent. I would love to have been there. My only criticism: the monstrance. It is minimalistic. Why is it that there is an aversion in the Catholic Church in Ireland to anything that is remotely 'traditional'? You see it also in places like Lough Derg, where the Blessed Sacrament is kept in a plexiglass box with weird lights. The host is also cracked (an abuse to be sure) to 'represent broken humanity' or something like that.

ALL large hosts are cracked at the Fraction Rite during Mass.
As for the monstrance, imo it looked classy and did nothing to take away from what it held

gerbilgranny

Thank you to those who posted photos and reports about the Congress on here. It was this site and EWTN that gave me a glimpse into what's been happening for the past week.

Myself and my daughter are going to the final Mass tomorrow; I'm looking forward to that. But...and I say this is a spirit of goodwill - I have no desire to attack the R.C. Church - I can't help thinking that the Congress has only impacted upon those who attended. Which is reasonable, of course. But...if you get my drift...the event was good for those who attended, and those who attended were 'into' it. People in my work remarked upon the 'Grannies on Tour' Brigades they had encountered on the DART, buses and mainline rails - 'those grannies are on the way to the R.D.S. - you can see them a mile off'. Nowt wrong with grey hair ladies - I'm one myself! - and there's nowt wrong with them attending and enjoying the Congress...but I can't help thinking that we've been praying in our parishes for the success of the Congress....maybe I expected something more? (Bit rich, I know, to be saying this, when I haven't yet attended...but I was at work all week).

I see Diarmuid Martin is reviewing the Congress with Mick Peelo on tomorrow night's 'Would You Believe'. There have been times during the week when I've wondered if Diarmuid Martin had wished the Congress had gone elsewhere for 2012.

People have come from far and wide to attend the Congress. And no doubt they've made new friends, have enjoyed themselves, and in all likelihood, they've been impacted by the Congress. But....is it a bit like 'religious tourism'?

And at this stage I'd like to point out that I've had the same concern regarding other churches in Ireland - genuine, God-following, caring congregations - who have 'shipped in' Christian 'stars' from overseas. Yes, the church has a good night, and yes, people have been impacted/healed...but in the main, it's the same people attending such events, going from place to place.

There's a lot of good to be found in our own home place; our own parish. But we all know that there's need for renewal - for a lifting of spirits - for a fresh outpouring of the Spirit - in those places. We should be able to encounter God down at the 7.30 Mass every Sunday; or in our own fellowships, just as much as when some 'big name' comes to preach.

The short version of this long-winded post might be that I wish we could pray together with each other, where we are, and as we are. God is within us, and He has promised that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, He is there among us.

May God touch the hearts and minds of many tomorrow, as the Congress celebrates the final Eucharist of this week. We need God, and we need to be in fellowship with one another. Love God, and love thy neighbour - may His Kingdom come!

neemish

Gerbilgranny - I think what you are expressing is a concern of all involved, not only in events like the Congress, but also pilgrimages, World Youth Day etc. It's something I used to worry about alot until I heard this analogy...

Do you remember the Transfiguration of Jesus on Mount Tabor? He and his three closest disciples went up the mountain, and Jesus is "transfigured" - he begins to shine in a wonderful way and they "see his glory". Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Jesus. Then Peter offers to make tents for Jesus and the prophets. The prophets disappear and a voice is heard from heaven "this is my Son, the Beloved". And the disciples bow down in wonder and fear. And they go back down the mountain.

We go to Church every, or most Sundays, involve ourselves in Parish life, and we get on with our day to day lives, the hum-drum of just trying to get through, and coping with whatever is thrown at us.

But we need "mountain top" experiences. Times when we are surprised by God, when we see the glory of God and of His Kingdom, when the reality of God is more tangible. And thats what the Congress is - a "highlight". It's different to the day to day reality of Church life in Ireland, but it is related to it.
Like Peter sometimes, we want to stay on top of the mountain. We don't want to go back to real life. But we have to! The Congress will end on Sunday night, and pilgrims will go home. But hopefully, those who have part will have learnt something new about themselves, about God. And we will use our "remembering" to carry us through times of doubt. :-)

lmaopml

neemish wrote: »

Gerbilgranny - I think what you are expressing is a concern of all involved, not only in events like the Congress, but also pilgrimages, World Youth Day etc. It's something I used to worry about alot until I heard this analogy...

Do you remember the Transfiguration of Jesus on Mount Tabor? He and his three closest disciples went up the mountain, and Jesus is "transfigured" - he begins to shine in a wonderful way and they "see his glory". Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Jesus. Then Peter offers to make tents for Jesus and the prophets. The prophets disappear and a voice is heard from heaven "this is my Son, the Beloved". And the disciples bow down in wonder and fear. And they go back down the mountain.

We go to Church every, or most Sundays, involve ourselves in Parish life, and we get on with our day to day lives, the hum-drum of just trying to get through, and coping with whatever is thrown at us.

But we need "mountain top" experiences. Times when we are surprised by God, when we see the glory of God and of His Kingdom, when the reality of God is more tangible. And thats what the Congress is - a "highlight". It's different to the day to day reality of Church life in Ireland, but it is related to it.
Like Peter sometimes, we want to stay on top of the mountain. We don't want to go back to real life. But we have to! The Congress will end on Sunday night, and pilgrims will go home. But hopefully, those who have part will have learnt something new about themselves, about God. And we will use our "remembering" to carry us through times of doubt. :-)

I visited my mum earlier, she's one of the veterans from the first congress, she had me in her forties, and I'm really glad she did, I was number eight she could be my Gran in todays times, but it's really cool listening to somebody who has a really good memory of the events of the last century. She's as sharp, but her body is frail now, however, she can relate real life experience etc. of a pretty action packed century.

I asked her about what she remembered of it - apparently she said that they were so poor that she had two pairs of knickers made out of the flag by her Aunt pml....nothing went to waste in those days..lol.. and how excited people were, she remembers 'snapshots' because she was only a child really, but she still remembers it as an occasion, and because childrens dresses were short with ankle socks she didn't particularly like bending down How times have changed... I love listening to my old mum.

mdebets

Some more from yesterday
some general
The Afternoon Mass

and some from today

and some from this evening's masses, including the Ukrainian Catholic Mass, which was beautiful, but which I had to leave for the other two Masses I wanted to cover (but only made one other in the end).

@Brer Fox
I'm doing some freelance photography in my spare time.

Onesimus

mdebets wrote: »

Some more from yesterday
some general
The Afternoon Mass

and some from today

and some from this evening's masses, including the Ukrainian Catholic Mass, which was beautiful, but which I had to leave for the other two Masses I wanted to cover (but only made one other in the end).

@Brer Fox
I'm doing some freelance photography in my spare time.

Yes I saw you taking photos at the Divine Liturgy today with His Beatitude Sviatoslav. That is a mighty looking camera you have mdebets.

How did you find it?

Onesimus

dublinman1990

I was doing research on how to get to Croke Park by public transport tomorrow. I looked up the website just to see the time of the Statio Orbis Mass (It starts at 1pm and finishes at 5:15pm).

I than downloaded a Croke Park public transport guide. This is what happened here.

The leaflet really is a shambles IMO as it does not display the correct Dublin Bus routes in their new route numbers.

Even it was a simple error, I have a feeling that it could be declared a joke by those Pilgrims who are going to the Mass tommorow.

They should be known that this Croke Park map is actually 3 years out of date as most Dublin Bus routes on the map are correct. However; there are a minority that have re-routed or withdrawn.

Any pilgrims who are going to the mass tomorrow should read this on how to get to there properly are probably going to be disappointed.

Even if the train from Dublin Connolly to Maynooth has very long waiting times. It is also a little bit more expensive pay on the train rather than on the bus.

Even though it is short notice, and as many pilgrims who do not live in Ireland or do not know the routes well. I have kindly put up links for some timetables of the revised Dublin Bus routes which are below if you wish to get off at Drumcondra Train Station or Annesley Bridge Road.

Route 1 - Sandymount to Shanard

Route 11 - Sandyford Industrial Estate to Wadelai Park

Route 13 - Grangecastle to Harristown

Route 14 - Dundrum Luas Station to Ardlea Road

Route 15 - Clongriffin to Ballycullen Road

Route 16 - Ballinteer To Dublin Airport

Route 33 - Lower Abbey Street to Balbriggan

Route 41 - Lower Abbey Street to Swords Manor

Route 41C - Lower Abbey Street to Swords Manor

Route 44 - Enniskerry to Larkhill

These are also the traffic restrictions for tomorrow which are listed here.

Anyway,

Moving on, I am looking forward to go the Mass tomorrow as it will probably be tens of thousands of people there. Even though it will a long Mass, it will a great event for reflection and prayer.

Doc Farrell

Yes, I was there too Onesimus, I found it very moving and fascinating!

Onesimus

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Yes, I was there too Onesimus, I found it very moving and fascinating!

Were you the guy who asked me if I was Ukrainian? lol:D

I think we had a full house of Boards members there. Great to see you came down. Was this your first time at UGCC?

I hope you had a great experience.

Onesimus

Brer Fox

neemish wrote: »

ALL large hosts are cracked at the Fraction Rite during Mass.
As for the monstrance, imo it looked classy and did nothing to take away from what it held

Yes during Mass the Host is broken and consumed, but Hosts reserved for adoration in the monstrance are not to be fractured - that is an abuse.

mdebets wrote: »

@Brer Fox
I'm doing some freelance photography in my spare time.

The Eastern Rite Liturgy looks interesting. I think the main problem with the New Mass as it is experienced, is that it is too familiar and banal. There is little mystery. This could be addressed by re-introducing ad orientem worship and some use of the Latin language. Both of these were supposed to be core to the New Mass anyway.

Can you make much money out of it? I suppose you need to know the right people. What camera have you got?

Who was at the Knock Mass at 3pm Saturday? What were your impressions?

gimmebroadband

Brer Fox wrote: »

Who was at the Knock Mass at 3pm Saturday? What were your impressions?

I was there with my son, thought it was excellent!

Did you see the guy near the entrance to the market/carpark giving out free DVDs? The dvd's were compiled by the Dimond Bros. - I binned it!

Onesimus

gimmebroadband wrote: »

I was there with my son, thought it was excellent!

Did you see the guy near the entrance to the market/carpark giving out free DVDs? The dvd's were compiled by the Dimond Bros. - I binned it!

Why did you bin it and who is the dimond bros.?

Brer. I enjoy the Roman Mass as much as I enjoy the UGCC Liturgy ( where I feel more comfortable although I like all of the rites of the Church ).

I think we as Christians need to learn how to embrace all the rites and Liturgies of the Universal Church if we are to be happy in The Lord.

Brer Fox

Fellas, what's with the red 'X' and '24th October' on the bottom of RTE1 screen coverage of the congress Mass?

Weird alright.

Onesimus

Brer Fox wrote: »

Fellas, what's with the red 'X' and '24th October' on the bottom of RTE1 screen coverage of the congress Mass?

Weird alright.

It is because on 24th October television goes from analog to digital. You probably have a digital tv but are viewing the analog channels on it.