Dublin mayor wants to test children in in poor areas for fetal alcohol syndrome

steddyeddy

Dublin mayor allegedly wants to test children in disadvantaged areas for fetal alcohol syndrome. I personally think alcohol abuse isnt restricted to one particular class. What worries me is that this is how some people view those from less advantaged backgrounds. I dont like to think that those in power see the less advantaged in this way.

http://www.herald.ie/news/mayor-wants-to-test-babies-in-poor-areas-for-alcohol-3118063.html

DUBLIN’S mayor wants children to be tested for their mum’s alcohol use during pregnancy.
The call by Lord Mayor Andrew Montague sparked anger among campaigners. In a suprise move, Mr Montague wants to screen children in disadavantaged areas for foetal alcohol syndrome.
The syndrome affects children whose mothers are exposed to an excessive amount of alcohol during pregnancy. Fianna Fail councillor Mary Fitzpatrick said the proposal was “discriminatory” as it is “judging women because of their background”.
“I am absolutely taken aback that the Lord Mayor could have such a prejudicial and discriminatory view,” she told the Herald.
“They cannot be judged because of their class or background. That would be a disgraceful approach,” she said.
The mayor wants the tests because medical evidence suggests that babies can be born with physical and mental defects if their mothers consume too much alcohol during the course of their pregnancy. Childrens Right's activist and Senator Jillian Van Turnhout today rejected the Lord Mayor's proposal out of hand. The former head of the Children’s Rights Alliance told the Herald there is “no evidence whatsoever to suggest that class has anything to do with this”.
“You cannot justify that view because alcoholism is a societal issue affecting women from all walks of life across the board. I would not subscribe to the Lord Mayor’s view whatsoever,” she added. However, Mr Montague’s focus on working class areas has sparked a furious reaction from city councillors.
Councillor Mannix Flynn described the proposal as “fascist” while another said it was a “slur on working class women”. The recommendation is contained in a draft paper on anti-social behaviour that Mr Montague himself has been driving since taking up office as city mayor. If the proposal was implemented, it could have mothers in some parts of Dublin see their children tested while children from so-called well-off areas avoid the screening process completely.
IMPULSIVE
In the paper, seen by the Herald, Mr Montague recommends the “screening of children for Foetal Alcohol Syndrome for children in disadvantaged communities”. He adds: “Overexposure to alcohol and some other drugs is strongly associated with impulsivity and antisocial behaviour in later life.”
The inclusion of ‘disadvantaged’ women only is particular puzzling given the growing number of women from middle and upper-class backgrounds developing an over-reliance on alcohol. Phil Thompson, head of operations at Tiglin Rehabilitation Centre in Wicklow, told the Herald: “Alcohol Addiction is not something that is confined to a postcode or area whatsoever. We treat and welcome people from all walks of life.” The document – entitled the ‘Lord Mayor’s commission on anti-social behaviour’ – is signed by Mr Montague. It is clearly described as the ‘final draft’ and has been widely circulated.
When contacted by the Herald, Mr Montague said the document was a “draft” and he refused to comment on the claims.

Red Hand

Brave New World. I'm gonna decant me some omegas!

girl in the striped socks

I know one expectant mother who regularly drinks. I'm not talking about one or two, she could easily have ten drinks on a night out. She's not poor or living in a disadvantaged area.
The sow should be ashamed of herself tbh. A pregnancy lasts for nine months, if you can't stay away from drink for the sake of your unborn child then you shouldn't have them at all.

My name is URL

It's undoubtedly a more common problem amongst disadvantaged groups. Perhaps the reason he wants to see those people in particular screened is because they have less means to deal with such issues themselves? In the long run, such screening could reduce the amount of kids developing problems later in life.

steddyeddy

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

I know one expectant mother who regularly drinks. I'm not talking about one or two, she could easily have ten drinks on a night out. She's not poor or living in a disadvantaged area.
The sow should be ashamed of herself tbh. A pregnancy lasts for nine months, if you can't stay away from drink for the sake of your unborn child then you shouldn't have them at all.

It doesnt help that this nut is spreading misinformation about the disease either. Thats a terrible story about the pregnant women. Some people would kill to have children its sad to see some people dont realise how lucky they are.

steddyeddy

My name is URL wrote: »

It's undoubtedly a more common problem amongst disadvantaged groups. Perhaps the reason he wants to see those people in particular screened is because they have less means to deal with such issues themselves? In the long run, such screening could reduce the amount of kids developing problems later in life.

Drinking or drinking during pregnancy is more common in disadvantaged areas?

Richard Hillman

steddyeddy wrote: »

Dublin mayor allegedly wants to test children in disadvantaged areas for fetal alcohol syndrome. I personally think alcohol abuse isnt restricted to one particular class. What worries me is that this is how some people view those from less advantaged backgrounds. I dont like to think that those in power see the less advantaged in this way.

http://www.herald.ie/news/mayor-wants-to-test-babies-in-poor-areas-for-alcohol-3118063.html

True but its more prevalent in the underclasses I.E the skanger community and thats who he is talking about but cant say that because the left wing media. The working classes and middle classes in general dont need to be advised. The underclasses have gotten to a stage where they need to be shackled into doing the right thing.

Political correctness created and appeases the underclasses. Their way of life should not be pandered to, it should be fought, mocked and punished.

steddyeddy

Richard Hillman wrote: »

True but its more prevalent in the underclasses I.E the skanger community and thats who he is talking about but cant say that because the left wing media. The working classes and middle classes in general dont need to be advised. The underclasses have gotten to a stage where they need to be shackled into doing the right thing.

Political correctness created and appeases the underclasses. Their way of life should not be pandered to, it should be fought, mocked and punished.

Of course they do!

nua domhan

It's pretty well known that people from lower social classes have worse health - higher rates of smoking, obesity, diabetes, alcoholism etc.

It's wrong to say this is just discrimination or "judging women because of their background" as the Fianna fail councilor put it. Would it be discriminatory to screen afro-Caribbean men for diabetes because of their background?

In fact, you could argue that the reason that health is so poor in the lower classes is because health schemes usually target the more affluent or informed middle classes.

Nodin

Richard Hillman wrote: »

True but its more prevalent in the underclasses I.E the skanger community and thats who he is talking about but cant say that because the left wing media. The working classes and middle classes in general dont need to be advised. The underclasses have gotten to a stage where they need to be shackled into doing the right thing.

Political correctness created and appeases the underclasses. Their way of life should not be pandered to, it should be fought, mocked and punished.

Dear baby Jesus, a survivor from the great Victorian cryogenic experiment....

Monty Burnz

steddyeddy wrote: »

It doesnt help that this nut is spreading misinformation about the disease either. Thats a terrible story about the pregnant women. Some people would kill to have children its sad to see some people dont realise how lucky they are.

What disinformation is he spreading?

From what I heard, he wants the testing done in disadvantaged areas because kids from better backgrounds will probably have the illness detected and treated in later life, while kids from poor backgrounds will just get lost in the morass of 'disadvantaged' trouble makers - they will never get a fair chance.

My name is URL

steddyeddy wrote: »

Drinking or drinking during pregnancy is more common in disadvantaged areas?

Well, both. One by extension of the other. I don't think we're talking about a few glasses of wine a week here fwiw. I'm guessing the whole thing is about problem drinking. And problem drinking of all descriptions are more common in disadvantaged areas. I'm not trying to generalise, it's the sad fact of the matter.. for a number of reasons and not just proclivity to drinking.. population densities, and reduced access to proper education/treatments etc.

Monty Burnz

Nodin wrote: »

Dear baby Jesus, a survivor from the great Victorian cryogenic experiment....

So you think the removal of the need to do anything productive has not trapped people into generations of living on welfare? There are just families who haven't managed a decent job interview between them for 3 generations?

It's possible, I guess.

Monty Burnz

My name is URL wrote: »

Well, both. One by extension of the other. I don't think we're talking about a few glasses of wine a week here fwiw.

As far as I'm aware, there's no 'safe' level of alcohol to drink during pregnancy, and worryingly the effects are worst in the first trimester (when you might not even know you are pregnant).

superluck

There should be license for having kids and I'm not even joking.

At one time i'd have frowned at the idea but look at the amount of social problems caused by kids born to single mothers or parents completely incapable of bringing them up.

What kind of life are some of these kids destined to have when the parents can't even look after themselves?

flutterflye

Who screens for f.a.s.?

All I know is that my son has aspergers and adhd.
When a child presents with such issues, they have to fully assess the child and the situation.
They spend months doing various tests in which to determine the cause of the problems.
During the assessment process, they must rule out anything that could mimic the behaviours in a child, such as f.a.s., lead poisoning, food allergies etc..

The average waiting time for assessment is from 1 to 2 years.
And the assessment process can take up to a year.
The hse are severely lacking staff and resources.

Who does the mayor want to screen these kids, because if he thinks the hse can do it - he will be laughed out of it.
They do not have the means to do it!

And I don't think gp's have the expertise to do such a screening, although I could be wrong.

Gummy Panda

I don't know why people are afraid to call a spade a spade. There is a lot of disadvantaged areas who have a skanger community that have no qualms about substance abusing during pregnancy

dr.bollocko

Speaking as an alcoholic pregnant woman from dublin I blame the foridners.

Logical Fallacy

My name is URL wrote: »

It's undoubtedly a more common problem amongst disadvantaged groups. Perhaps the reason he wants to see those people in particular screened is because they have less means to deal with such issues themselves? In the long run, such screening could reduce the amount of kids developing problems later in life.

People will wonder about this, so here is something on it.

To be honest, while there is an uncomfortable connection on it being popular to demonise the lower classes.

The only interesting thing this thread will provide is finding correlation between people running down lower class mothers who drink and cross referencing them with posters who dispute things like ADHD etc.

Should be a laugh a minute.

Wattle

I wonder how many pregnancies the old Dutch Gold is responsible for?

girl in the striped socks

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Speaking as an alcoholic pregnant woman from dublin I blame the foridners.

You forgot to tell us that your fella when into the joy but you're hoping to have him out for the birth. And how you cut down from forty johnny blue to just thirty johnny blue, for the babbys lungs & all.
And your on the list for a better council house.

Dyr

It should be noted that montague is f**king snip of the first water. Maybe he should have these mothers temperatures taken as well to make sure they don't freeze to death in flats who's heating are turned off by the corpo to suit a company that he was a director of.

Smidge

In the majority of cases of F.A.S there are dysmorphic facial features which can be very distinguishable from birth, in conjunction with intellectual problems.

Also as far as I'm aware alcohol is just as prevalent in working and middle classes as it is in lower class areas. Anybody who says it is not is deluding themselves.

Very few "tracksuit wearing, dutch gold drinking, social welfare scrounging single mothers" on here but there are a whole hell of a lot of boozers though

starbelgrade

Richard Hillman wrote: »

True but its more prevalent in the underclasses I.E the skanger community and thats who he is talking about but cant say that because the left wing media. The working classes and middle classes in general dont need to be advised. The underclasses have gotten to a stage where they need to be shackled into doing the right thing.

Political correctness created and appeases the underclasses. Their way of life should not be pandered to, it should be fought, mocked and punished.

I just dropped my monicle.

dr.bollocko

mod:

Please frame your criticism of Montague in a reasonable manner.

Insults and abuse aimed at him will only result in this thread disappearing.
Criticism is fine. Abuse is not.

Unless you're a Capulet and can pm me a birth cert.

Monty Burnz

mishkalucy wrote: »

In the majority of cases of F.A.S there are dysmorphic facial features which can be very distinguishable from birth, in conjunction with intellectual problems.

Also as far as I'm aware alcohol is just as prevalent in working and middle classes as it is in lower class areas. Anybody who says it is not is deluding themselves.

Very few "tracksuit wearing, dutch gold drinking, social welfare scrounging single mothers" on here but there are a whole hell of a lot of boozers though

Post 19 anticipated your PC intervention.

why would they pick out areas if he's that concerned about kids do the screens as part of all pregnant womens checkups

starbelgrade

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Unless you're a Capulet and can pm me a birth cert.

I'll have one of my servants send it.

nua domhan

mishkalucy wrote: »

In the majority of cases of F.A.S there are dysmorphic facial features which can be very distinguishable from birth, in conjunction with intellectual problems.

Also as far as I'm aware alcohol is just as prevalent in working and middle classes as it is in lower class areas. Anybody who says it is not is deluding themselves.

Very few "tracksuit wearing, dutch gold drinking, social welfare scrounging single mothers" on here but there are a whole hell of a lot of boozers though

Alcohol is prevalent among all classes yes, the intelligence not to use it while pregnant, appears not.

mikemac1

Bambi wrote: »

It should be noted that montague is f**king snip of the first water.

Snip of the first water?

I've never come across this phrase before
What does it mean?

Nodin

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Post 19 anticipated your PC intervention.

..."PC" time already, is it? Dear o dear.

Well, we can't accuse you of that now, can we.

The Big Red Button

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

I know one expectant mother who regularly drinks. I'm not talking about one or two, she could easily have ten drinks on a night out. She's not poor or living in a disadvantaged area.
The sow should be ashamed of herself tbh. A pregnancy lasts for nine months, if you can't stay away from drink for the sake of your unborn child then you shouldn't have them at all.

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

I am not saying it's OK for her to drink - if you become pregnant, and if you decide to allow the pregnancy to continue, then you should become responsible for it, and do what you can to ensure the health of the baby.

But dehumanising the mothers involved isn't going to help matters!

Smidge

Nodin wrote: »

..."PC" time already, is it? Dear o dear.

Well, we can't accuse you of that now, can we.

I, my Dear Nodin, choose the high road









Help me Nodin, 'e is always pickin on me, 'e is
Sits in corner crying, too scared to come out 'cause Monty is out there

Monty Burnz

Nodin wrote: »

..."PC" time already, is it? Dear o dear.

Well, we can't accuse you of that now, can we.

Nope. Speak the truth and be damned.

Cussypat1974

IMO you should have to do a dedgree in parenting before you can have kids!;)

mikemac1

That's Joe Duffy show sorted for tomorrow so

Monty Burnz

chatterpillar wrote: »

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

I am not saying it's OK for her to drink - if you become pregnant, and if you decide to allow the pregnancy to continue, then you should become responsible for it, and do what you can to ensure the health of the baby.

But dehumanising the mothers involved isn't going to help matters!

Oh my.

Gummy Panda

bluewolf wrote: »

why would they pick out areas if he's that concerned about kids do the screens as part of all pregnant womens checkups

Probably cause he is from Ballymun and sees how prevalent it is in disadvantaged areas.

lynski

i overheard a conversation once that went ' how far along are you now?' '5mths' 'any difference this time to last time?' 'nah not really i just cant stomach my bacardi and coke, have to drink malibu instead'
Was also asked 'and will you stay off the drink for the WHOLE pregnancy?'
But have equally been asked if I really had a drink while pregnant? and other people have been horrified I had a drink while breastfeeding

flutterflye

chatterpillar wrote: »

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

I am not saying it's OK for her to drink - if you become pregnant, and if you decide to allow the pregnancy to continue, then you should become responsible for it, and do what you can to ensure the health of the baby.

But dehumanising the mothers involved isn't going to help matters!

:eek:

Seriously wtf is all that?
I don't even....

girl in the striped socks

chatterpillar wrote: »

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

I know one expectant mother who regularly drinks. I'm not talking about one or two, she could easily have ten drinks on a night out. She's not poor or living in a disadvantaged area.
The sow should be ashamed of herself tbh. A pregnancy lasts for nine months, if you can't stay away from drink for the sake of your unborn child then you shouldn't have them at all.

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

I am not saying it's OK for her to drink - if you become pregnant, and if you decide to allow the pregnancy to continue, then you should become responsible for it, and do what you can to ensure the health of the baby.

But dehumanising the mothers involved isn't going to help matters!

In my eyes she is.
It's nine months ffs, its not as if people don't know the potential consequences.

My name is URL

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

IMO you should have to do a dedgree in parenting before you can have kids!;)

To hell with dedgrees, you should need a Mattress.

nua domhan

chatterpillar wrote: »

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

I am not saying it's OK for her to drink - if you become pregnant, and if you decide to allow the pregnancy to continue, then you should become responsible for it, and do what you can to ensure the health of the baby.

But dehumanising the mothers involved isn't going to help matters!

To be honest, i'd like to see anyone drinking during pregnancy brought up for child abuse. If a parent gave that "collection of cells" a sip of vodka (subjected them to alcohol) the day after the birth they'd be investigated but not the day before?

Ps nice how you contradicted yourself dehumanising a child in a post about not dehumanising mothers. :P

mattjack

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

IMO you should have to do a dedgree in parenting before you can have kids!;)

I've a dipdploma, will that do ?

strandroad

It's all about the wording. If he wrote to suggest "screening of children for Foetal Alcohol Syndrome for children in disadvantaged communities" he may imply that parents from other backgrounds can pay for their screening if they notice anything or have reasons to believe alcohol might have been a factor.

SerialComplaint

I don't suppose there is any chance that people would wait to see the actual document mentioned in the article before rushing to judgement on Montague, or better still, wait for the final published version, not the draft?

Monty Burnz

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I don't suppose there is any chance that people would wait to see the actual document mentioned in the article before rushing to judgement on Montague, or better still, wait for the final published version, not the draft?

Nope. No hope at all.

mattjack

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I don't suppose there is any chance that people would wait to see the actual document mentioned in the article before rushing to judgement on Montague, or better still, wait for the final published version, not the draft?

I suppose you want me to put away my pitchfork too and extinguish my flaming torch .

Rocket19

superluck wrote: »

There should be license for having kids and I'm not even joking.

At one time i'd have frowned at the idea but look at the amount of social problems caused by kids born to single mothers or parents completely incapable of bringing them up.

What kind of life are some of these kids destined to have when the parents can't even look after themselves?

You should read this paper. Was advised to read it for my philosophy elective. Very interesting topic really. http://www.hughlafollette.com/papers/lic-par.htm

Stark

chatterpillar wrote: »

She's not a "sow", FFS, she's a human being, and one who has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the collection of cells which she is currently allowing to develop inside her.

So because she's older than her kids, she should be allowed do whatever she wants to them and they should be grateful to her for "allowing" them to live?

Dyr

mikemac1 wrote: »

Snip of the first water?

I've never come across this phrase before
What does it mean?

the snip bit means I was bold the rest is this:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/137550.html


I probably picked it up as one me famblys' dublin-in-the-rare-ould times-phrases.