Being a broody and paternal guy!

Some of us have even found it - brace yourselves for this - easy! (so far).

goingpostal1

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of us have even found it - brace yourselves for this - easy! (so far).

Easy compared to what? Being childfree? A worst-case scenario?

goingpostal1

tbh wrote: »

The point is, you don't know what experience anyone has with kids. Your first post seems, to me anyway, to suggest that if people really knew what having kids was like, they wouldn't want them. That's why I suggested you're afraid of them. As many posters including myself have pointed out since, its perfectly logical that a man can completely understand everything that is involved in raising a child and want to do it anyway.

Why would a grown man be afraid of a child? Being afraid of the financial responsibility, the endless demands on your time, the way having children will irreversibly change your relationship with your partner, the education and health care systems in this country, the almost total dependence of our society on cars and imported oil, especially when you have kids, global overpopulation, rapidly diminishing non-renewable energy sources, global warming etc. etc. etc., are different fears. Those are all valid reasons to be reluctant to procreate. Creating new human life is an irreversible decision, and encouraging people to think about that decision long and hard, is a valid exercise.

goingpostal1

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Easy compared to what? Being childfree? A worst-case scenario?

Easy compared to things in life that have been difficult. :P

Na tounge out of cheek fatherhood has been a breeze so far. No scares, no sleepless nights, no medical issues. Slightly less free time to play with over all but not hugely curtailed. We make sure to give each other "alone" time and stay with the baby while the others get on with aspects of their own life.

I do reiterate the "yet" though. I realise kids can become difficult at any time and she is only 2. And we do plan to have more as I said in the earlier post.

tbh

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Why would a grown man be afraid of a child? Being afraid of the financial responsibility, the endless demands on your time, the way having children will irreversibly change your relationship with your partner, the education and health care systems in this country, the almost total dependence of our society on cars and imported oil, especially when you have kids, global overpopulation, rapidly diminishing non-renewable energy sources, global warming etc. etc. etc., are different fears. Those are all valid reasons to be reluctant to procreate. Creating new human life is an irreversible decision, and encouraging people to think about that decision long and hard, is a valid exercise.

Yeah - those reasons, the same reasons, incidentally, you argue it's a bad idea to to anything, including getting out of bed in the morning.
Out of interest, do you have kids?

edit - actually, never mind, it doesn't matter. To be honest, I don't think the thread is about whether it's a good idea to have kids or not. I think the OP was asking if any other guys had a longing for children, as it's historically been seen, rightly or wrongly, as a feminine trait. To that question, I would answer - yes, definitely.

seenitall

@taxAHcruel:

Yes, but! Three parents bringing up a few kids under one roof will always be way easier than two.

That helps I admit! But I think I had prepared for the worst with our baby. Wakings in the night, rushing to hospital in a panic with illnesses that turn out to be nothing, vomiting and crapping everywhere... you name it.... all the horror stories people with their own kids love to tell people without kids. None of it has happened. She eats, she drinks, she plays, she interacts, demands a few stories be read to her and the.... sleep and repeat.

Ill add "yet" again though - starting to get superstitious here as if saying all this and forgetting "yet" will jinx it all

goingpostal1

tbh wrote: »

Yeah - those reasons, the same reasons, incidentally, you argue it's a bad idea to to anything, including getting out of bed in the morning.

Procreating is a unique part of the human experience, not comparable with, say, going to the shop for milk. Global warming, and the coming energy crunch etc. etc. etc.,do not prevent me from going to the shop to buy milk, but they do make me think twice and thrice, when it comes to procreating.

tbh wrote: »

Out of interest, do you have kids?

Irrelevant. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. Do I have to have committed murder, before I am allowed to make a moral judgement on homicide? Do I have to have procreated, before I am allowed to possess an opinion on the pros and cons of procreation.

tbh wrote: »

edit - actually, never mind, it doesn't matter. To be honest, I don't think the thread is about whether it's a good idea to have kids or not. I think the OP was asking if any other guys had a longing for children, as it's historically been seen, rightly or wrongly, as a feminine trait. To that question, I would answer - yes, definitely.

I think the debate about the pros and cons of having children is far more interesting and educational, than some contest between men about how sentimental they can get about the idea of fathering children.

goingpostal1

Deleted User wrote: »

Easy compared to things in life that have been difficult. :P

Na tounge out of cheek fatherhood has been a breeze so far. No scares, no sleepless nights, no medical issues. Slightly less free time to play with over all but not hugely curtailed. We make sure to give each other "alone" time and stay with the baby while the others get on with aspects of their own life.

I do reiterate the "yet" though. I realise kids can become difficult at any time and she is only 2. And we do plan to have more as I said in the earlier post.

Thanks for the reply. I genuinely hope it is ever thus for you. However, one anecdote does not a data set make.

tbh

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Irrelevant. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. Do I have to have committed murder, before I am allowed to make a moral judgement on homicide? Do I have to have procreated, before I am allowed to possess an opinion on the pros and cons of procreation.
.

No but it would be helpful - and very relevant - to know if your opinions are formed from theory or experience. If you've never had kids, how can you objectively evaluate the pros?

opinion guy

tbh wrote: »

No but it would be helpful - and very relevant - to know if your opinions are formed from theory or experience. If you've never had kids, how can you objectively evaluate the pros?

To be fair now - I've never lived in North Korea - but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't like it - even if the locals all profess to love the leader of their glorious paradise...<sound of gun-uncocking>

tbh

opinion guy wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

No but it would be helpful - and very relevant - to know if your opinions are formed from theory or experience. If you've never had kids, how can you objectively evaluate the pros?

To be fair now - I've never lived in North Korea - but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't like it - even if the locals all profess to love the leader of their glorious paradise...<sound of gun-uncocking>

They are hardly comparable OG. If you were talking to two guys about a bungee jump one of whom had done one and one of whom hadn't, who would you feel would be in a better position to give you an accurate idea of what a bungee jump was like?

opinion guy

tbh wrote: »

They are hardly comparable OG. If you were talking to two guys about a bungee jump one of whom had done one and one of whom hadn't, who would you feel would be in a better position to give you an accurate idea of what a bungee jump was like?

Well they are comparable. You have to live within various restrictions, distribute all your resources to keep people alive, and you are not allowed to complain about it due to social convention. Its a very apt metaphor I think really.

I'll admit the scale may be a bit off however. But I was exagerating to make the point.

Bungee jumping. Let me see - if you are one of those who got a retinal detachement from it, or you are that girl who landed in the corcodile infested river - probably not such a fan to be honest.

There are down sides to anything. Can't you admit you may be a bit biased in the opposite direction to goingpostal's bias ?

tbh

opinion guy wrote: »

Well they are comparable. You have to live within various restrictions, distribute all your resources to keep people alive, and you are not allowed to complain about it due to social convention. Its a very apt metaphor I think really.

I'll admit the scale may be a bit off however. But I was exagerating to make the point.

Bungee jumping. Let me see - if you are one of those who got a retinal detachement from it, or you are that girl who landed in the corcodile infested river - probably not such a fan to be honest.

There are down sides to anything. Can't you admit you may be a bit biased in the opposite direction to goingpostal's bias ?

this is completely separate to what we were originally talking about, and I'm not getting into it any further.

Original point: I don't have to have kids to be able to argue to pros and cons.

My point: How can you objectively quantify the pros if you don't have kids? [and what value should other put on your opinion if you haven't had kids]

I already said I'm not getting into the "to have or not have kids" argument.

opinion guy

tbh wrote: »

this is completely separate to what we were originally talking about, and I'm not getting into it any further.

Original point: I don't have to have kids to be able to argue to pros and cons.

My point: How can you objectively quantify the pros if you don't have kids? [and what value should other put on your opinion if you haven't had kids]

I already said I'm not getting into the "to have or not have kids" argument.

Yes and my point: How can you objectively quantify the cons if you don't have kids ?

If you don't recognise that as equally valid as not been able to objectively quantify the cons then you are biased. Simple as.

tbh

opinion guy wrote: »

Yes and my point: How can you objectively quantify the cons if you don't have kids ?
.

because everybody who has kids has also been someone who has not had kids.

opinion guy

tbh wrote: »

because everybody who has kids has also been someone who has not had kids.

Same applies to the pros.

You are not being logical

Noffles

Bringing up kids is a ****ing pain.. one hassle to the next.. until they're old enough to be independent and you can actually chill with them.

tbh

opinion guy wrote: »

Same applies to the pros.

You are not being logical

Honestly, I......

Ok, look, I'll make this as simple as I possibly can, ok? And them I'm done.

Here's how it works.

Before I had a child, ok, I DIDN'T have a child. So I've been someone, ok, who has HAD a child, and someone who HAS NOT had a child.

I know the pros of HAVING a child, and I know the pros of NOT having a child, ok? cause i've been in both positions.

You still with me?

Now, if you've NEVER had a child, then you have never been in the position of having a child, you have only been in the postion of NOT having a child. So already, you're at a disadvantage when it comes to comparing the two positions.

THE SIMPLE question I was asking goingpostal was: Does he have any children?

Because if the answer is NO, he does NOT have any children, I would like to know how he can objectively quantify the pros of HAVING children, given the fact that he doesn't have any.

Now, that's not to say he's not entitled to OPINE on what those pros are.

However - and this is the clincher - because this is where you came in with your clever North Korea story - it is not IRRELEVANT to ask him whether he has kids or not, as he claims - because the knowledge of whether he has kids allows me to place the correct weight on his opinions as to what the pros and cons of having children are - which is a discussion that I didn't want to have, and which was NOT the topic of this thread.

/unsubscribes.

r3nu4l

To answer the original poster...

I was about 19when I first felt that I would love to have a child. I was 34 before my daughter was born.

In the intervening years my desire for children waxed and waned ( not in a monthly cycle sort of way ) but by 32 the desire was as strong as it had been at 19, if not stronger.

So when mrs r3nu4l and I decided that we would start a family I suddenly had a rush of fear. I was really worried that I wouldn't be a good father, that I would let my temper get the better of me too often and that Any child I had would end up resentful of me.

In the end I needn't have worried. That quote from Christopher Hitchens really sums up how I feel. Yes, I hav been peed on, puked on and even pooed on and yes, I'm up at 6.30 at the latest every day of the year, weekends, holidays, the lot but I really wouldn't have it any other way.

I feel so honoured every day watching my daughter grow up and being a part of her life. I love her more than I've ever loved anyone and in a way that is indescribable. She can drive me bonkers when she does something I've explicitly told her not to but at the end of the day, if she didn't test my limits and try to do things her own way I would be very worried.

For me, I've had some very tough times with her health wise but now all is okay and every minute has been worth it and I want more kids. Nothing would ever make me want to go back to my pre-fatherhood days...although I wouldn't say no to the odd lie in :pac:

Edit. Some people just don't want kids and I have no problem with that at all. Each to their own.

goingpostal1

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I genuinely hope it is ever thus for you. However, one anecdote does not a data set make.

I would never claim it does. However as with many human experiences I think it would be silly to expect the experiences to be anything other than a continuum with some bunching rather than most people finding it difficult with a few odd cases like mine where it is actually rather easy. Parenthood - like any set of human relationships - is going to be made up of a range of experiences good and bad with an unequal distribution of both accross those involved.

Take TBH above who thinks having a child gives him a special privilege on being able to evaluate the "pros and cons" of having "a child". Not so. The most he can tell us from his position is the "pros and cons" of having HIS child(ren). Some or all of the pros and cons he would list may not be applicable to the next person. Each experience of having children is going to be as unique as the parents and children involved are.

Delancey

I'm in my forties and separated with no children. At this stage it's probably unlikely I will have children and I have to say it troubles me - it's a major regret.

Fromthetrees

I had I'd say zero paternal instincts or want for a child when it happened, honestly it seems to grow everyday though, if it's the bond or brain chemicals or maturity (:rolleyes:), I don't know what. She's nearly 3 now and the apple of my eye, words can't describe what I feel for her and all that jazz.

This videos excellent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tojBadSr2zI

They don't grade fathers but if your daughter is a stripper, you fuc*ed up.

Panthro

Childish posts have been deleted, If I see any more I'll be taking action.
You know who you are so take this to be your word of warning.
Panthro

take everything

Kids are great. I get a good laugh out of playing with my sisters kids.
But when i think do i want kids, i think maybe not.

Did someone once say having a kid is an egotistical thing to do. I'm just not egotistical enough. And too much self-loathing :pac:

I would hate to watch them to have any problems in their life (probably an immature attitude admittedly- nobody's life is perfect i guess.).

Edit: I'm being facetious about parenting being egotistical of course.

sam34

take everything wrote: »

Did someone once say having a kid is an egotistical thing to do. I'm just not egotistical enough.

whatever about it being egotistical, it baffles and annoys me when people say that choosing not to have kids is selfish. I mean, if by not having kids you are doing what you want to do and they deem that selfish, surely then having kids because you want to is equally selfish.

Khannie

sam34 wrote: »

it baffles and annoys me when people say that choosing not to have kids is selfish.

People say that? Surely the flaw in the "logic" is fairly clear there.

sam34

Khannie wrote: »

People say that? Surely the flaw in the "logic" is fairly clear there.

oh you'd be surprised. it's one of the most frequent insults thrown at those of us who are childfree by choice by some self-righteous parents (who go on to pontificate about how selfless they are...)

Galwayguy35

Delancey wrote: »

I'm in my forties and separated with no children. At this stage it's probably unlikely I will have children and I have to say it troubles me - it's a major regret.

I wouldn't give up on it happening. My father was older than you when my brother and I were born. You never know what the future holds.

Fromthetrees

Delancey wrote: »

I'm in my forties and separated with no children. At this stage it's probably unlikely I will have children and I have to say it troubles me - it's a major regret.

If it's 'major regret' and it 'troubles' you then there is absolutely no reason why you couldn't be married in a committed relationship and trying for a baby this time next year.

Assuming your male you can have very healthy kids at any age, it's woman who have a biological clock, not men.

Honestly, my friends sister who was about 33/34 at the time was fairly desperate to have kids, went onto a 'very reputable' online dating website, was very open and direct about what she was looking for, husband, kids, no one night stands ect., after a few months and a fair few dates she found 'mister right', married, and two kids later they're very happy and in a happy home.

Just saying, if you want kids, you can have them, maybe not with your 'one true love' but I think that's bollix anyway.