Season 2 Episode 9 - *Have Not Read The Books* *Spoilers* *Mod Note Post #1*

CastorTroy

Well she's not completely crazy. It's not like she's still breastfeeding her sons in public.

AlmightyCushion

CastorTroy wrote: »

Well she's not completely crazy. It's not like she's still breastfeeding her sons in public.

She'll probably start ridin' one of them soon enough though.

twinex

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

CastorTroy wrote: »

Well she's not completely crazy. It's not like she's still breastfeeding her sons in public.

She'll probably start ridin' one of them soon enough though.

Like I said as a counterpoint she's no more bonkers than the rest of them , heroes included I suppose for balance...

Anachrony

Syferus wrote: »

It was perfectly reasonable behaviour on her part, honestly.

No it wasn't, it was premature as demonstrated by the outcome. She had the right idea if worst came to worst, but was much too eager to pull the trigger on it. Partly it was because she was very drunk, but also because she is a little crazy.

She was relying on someone as inexperienced and weak as Lancel as her sole source of information to judge the battle, and about to poison her child on the basis of his predictions. As of his report they were still outside the wall. In his estimation after he got shot by an arrow and ran away, they were outmatched, but they hadn't yet even breached the city walls much less the palace itself. There was still plenty of time for things to turn around before Cersei and her children could possibly have been captured. She would have had advance notice of when things were truly beyond the point of no return and had time to implement her plan then.

Syferus

Anachrony wrote: »

No it wasn't, it was premature as demonstrated by the outcome. She had the right idea if worst came to worst, but was much too eager to pull the trigger on it. Partly it was because she was very drunk, but also because she is a little crazy.

She was relying on someone as inexperienced and weak as Lancel as her sole source of information to judge the battle, and about to poison her child on the basis of his predictions. As of his report they were still outside the wall. In his estimation after he got shot by an arrow and ran away, they were outmatched, but they hadn't yet even breached the city walls much less the palace itself. There was still plenty of time for things to turn around before Cersei and her children could possibly have been captured. She would have had advance notice of when things were truly beyond the point of no return and had time to implement her plan then.

Lancel was completely correct in what he said to Cersei - even Tyrion's heroic charge changed nothing in terms of who was going to win the battle and no one knew Tywin was on his way. If you were to wait until Stannis' men charged into the room then you'd have had little chance of taking poison.

We don't even know much time passed between Lancel telling Cersei about Joffrey running away and Tywin entering the keep. Remember that Tyrion had all the inner guards come out to the wall to defend the city so once the wall was breached it was game over and it would have only be a matter of walking to the throne room; there was going to be no advance warning, especially since no one even knew she was in the throne room.

Cersei clearly has a destructive streak, but her behaviour had little to do with being drunk or crazy. She genuinely wanted to protect her son. Even killing Sansa would have served a purpose; preventing Stannis from gaining an important piece in the game.

touts

She knew enough to discreetly destroy the poison when her father burst in. If she thought killing her son was the honourable thing to do then surely she would have thought her father would be proud of such an act. Yet she hid that fact from him.

She's dangerous and now she's turned to drink so I expect she'll ony get worse. I'd say she ordered the knight to kill Tyrion during the battle and if so that shows she was willing to risk the collapse of the army in a key moment of the battle by killing it's commander.

No one is safe with the Mad Kid on the throne and his mad mother pulling his strings. The way he came running from the battle as soon as she called him it wouldn't surprise me if she is putting him up to most things right since he chopped Ned's head off. The murder of the Hand before Ned. The death of her husband. The murder of the children of Kings landing. The attack on Tyrion. About to kill her own son. Down the line I'd say even Joffrey, Tywin and Jamie won't be safe with her around. The scene with her talking about wanting to do all the things the boys did but not being allowed because of her gender combined with the final scene with her sitting on the iron throne shows where her ambitions lie and no one will stop her.

War of the five kings? It could be the Mad Queen who ends up sitting on the throne.

twinex

......bOnKeRs!
Seriously though, there a countless people who were proven "mad" while previously being thought of as composed, intelligent and logical (relatively speaking). What i should of said originally was that the cracks are beginning to show with our girl Cersei

touts

touts wrote: »

She's dangerous and now she's turned to drink so I expect she'll ony get worse.

Go away out of that!

First off, everyone drinks wine in Westeros, especially the Lannisters.

Secondly, if my city was about to be sacked, my kids killed, god knows what was going to happen to me, too right I'd be hitting the gargle! Who wants to be sober for that?!


I doubt she'll be a raving alcoholic in the next season....

KerranJast

touts wrote: »

She knew enough to discreetly destroy the poison when her father burst in. If she thought killing her son was the honourable thing to do then surely she would have thought her father would be proud of such an act. Yet she hid that fact from him.

She dropped the poison on the floor afair. Plus why would she want to show to all and sundry that she was about to kill herself and her son.

touts wrote: »

I'd say she ordered the knight to kill Tyrion during the battle and if so that shows she was willing to risk the collapse of the army in a key moment of the battle by killing it's commander.

That is possible but more likely the guy turned on Tyrion in an attempt to defect to Stannis (who at the time was going to win).

touts wrote: »

No one is safe with the Mad Kid on the throne and his mad mother pulling his strings. The way he came running from the battle as soon as she called him it wouldn't surprise me if she is putting him up to most things right since he chopped Ned's head off. The murder of the Hand before Ned. The death of her husband. The murder of the children of Kings landing. The attack on Tyrion. About to kill her own son. Down the line I'd say even Joffrey, Tywin and Jamie won't be safe with her around. The scene with her talking about wanting to do all the things the boys did but not being allowed because of her gender combined with the final scene with her sitting on the iron throne shows where her ambitions lie and no one will stop her.

It's been clear for a long while that Cersei has lost control of Joffrey. All her recent dialogue scenes with Tyrion show how upset she is that he could be truely mad and it seems to hurt her deeply that it could be because of his parentage (she genuinely seems to love Jamie and vice versa no matter how weird that is to us).

As for the future, she's effectively the Queen Mother. Once Sansa or possibly Margary Tyrell becomes Queen her power will be much diminished. Plus she's still "only" a woman.

It's amazing how well GoT depicts upbringing as the cause of most characters flaws. Cersei isn't some pantomime evil villain. She's become harsh due to her life experiences.

Tywin made a remark to Ayra about how she reminds him of Cersei and it's easy to see that if Cersei had been raised by an honourable, kind man like Ned Stark, she might have turned out a decent sort like Arya.

Block (8

I don't think Cersei went mad or became an alcoholic

She even said it herself that if the invading army was triumphant they will rape the women and she knew what will happen to her sons too if they lost

The pressure of sitting in the room and being useless, not being out on the walls defending will drive anyone to drink since being a realist she did not turn to the gods like the other women.

Even through this she still showed her love for her children by getting Joffery off the wall and her intention to poison the other to save them all from the suffering of a slow death if Stannis won

I don't think there's any madness there but a loving mother who is prepared if Stannis breached the wall

twinex

If you analyse each of her actions they can be explained away and placed on this or that side of the argument of whether she's mad or not. Personally, i think as a whole, Cersei's actions are one of a person edging towards the precipice but then she wouldn't be as compelling a character if she wasn't now would she?
I don't think "rational" comes to visit Westeros that often......

thomond2006

Can't wait to see how Tywin interacts with Joffrey, I get the feeling he'll knock some sense into the brat. I just hope that interaction isn't until next season.

royster999

Oranage2 wrote: »

I hope the onion knight isnt dead either though I'd be surprised if he wasnt.

Remind me who this is?

Syferus

Tywin will have some serious rage towards Joffrey because his ultimate goal has always been legacy, his family's and is own. Officially Joffrey isn't even a Lannister but that secret was made public a long time ago and Joffrey making unmitigated fools and villains of his family is probably Tywin's worst nightmare.

I wonder if Tywin would contemplate declaring Joffrey an enemy of state or otherwise allowing him to be shipped to Robb for peace? It is common knowledge that Nedd's death was completely Joffrey's doing. It certainly would be perferable to the rout that's likely to happen if Arya reaches Robb and tells him what Tywin's done with his forces. Better to have half a kingdom than none.

WindmillWarrior

royster999 wrote: »

Remind me who this is?

Davos. Stannis' right hand man

Syferus

Syferus wrote: »

Tywin will have some serious rage towards Joffrey because his ultimate goal has always been legacy, his family's and is own. Officially Joffrey isn't even a Lannister but that secret was made public a long time ago and Joffrey making unmitigated fools and villains of his family is probably Tywin's worst nightmare.

I wonder if Tywin would contemplate declaring Joffrey an enemy of state or otherwise allowing him to be shipped to Robb for peace? It is common knowledge that Nedd's death was completely Joffrey's doing. It certainly would be perferable to the rout which is likely to happen if Arya reaches Robb and tells him what Tywin's done with his forces. Better to have half a kingdom than none.

Where are you getting Joffrey isn't officially a Lannister from? Of course he is. He's officially his mothers son.

I doubt Tywin will be happy, but I doubt whether he'd usurp his grandson...

Syferus

Deleted User wrote: »

Where are you getting Joffrey isn't officially a Lannister from? Of course he is. He's officially his mothers son.

I doubt Tywin will be happy, but I doubt whether he'd usurp his grandson...

Officially he's Joffrey Baratheon.

squonk

Syferus wrote: »

Officially he's Joffrey Baratheon.

Unofficially though he's a Lannister, by both parents!

royster999

Cracking episode. One gripe though.
At three knife edge stages, there was a convenient interruption:

- Bronn & Hound about to come to blows, then interupted by war bells.
- Cersei about to uncover Shaes real identity, interrupted by someone.
- Tommen just about to get poisoned, then Tywin charges in, in the nick of time.

pickarooney

It must be all the other great TV I watched this last week but I found this episode rather dull. An hour of fighting with a few funny lines and nothing about the other cities.

Where the **** is Robb at this stage? He's been travelling for nine episodes and doesn't seem to have gone anywhere or done anything apart from hook up with admittedly the hottest woman on the show.

Wolverine359

pickarooney wrote: »

It must be all the other great TV I watched this last week but I found this episode rather dull.

What, pray tell, are these other tv shows you allude to? They must be pretty amazing!

Anachrony

Syferus wrote: »

Lancel was completely correct in what he said to Cersei - even Tyrion's heroic charge changed nothing in terms of who was going to win the battle and no one knew Tywin was on his way. If you were to wait until Stannis' men charged into the room then you'd have had little chance of taking poison.

They couldn't predict exactly that Tywin would save the day, but that's the point. War is unpredictable. As long as they were holding out, there was the chance that their fortunes could change. The odds may not have been looking good for them, but you don't murder your children based on Lancel's hunch about how things will work out. They do have significant Lannister forces that were not at King's Landing, so while Tywin's exact arrival may have been a surprise, the idea that if they held out long enough they might get reinforcement shouldn't have been a shock.

There is a whole city full of people there. The enemies don't go straight from breaching the wall to strolling into every corner of the castle unimpeded. The throne room may not have been ideal for gathering intel because it was quiet and isolated and the enemies would head straight there. But it was Cersei who chose to make her stand there. She could have chosen someplace higher up with a window that's a little harder to get to, or even just posted a civilian servant somewhere to scout things out. She's an intelligent woman in a position of authority and she had options if she wasn't half out of her mind at the time.

viztopia

I wonder if Tywin would contemplate declaring Joffrey an enemy of state or otherwise allowing him to be shipped to Robb for peace? It is common knowledge that Nedd's death was completely Joffrey's doing. It certainly would be perferable to the rout that's likely to happen if Arya reaches Robb and tells him what Tywin's done with his forces. Better to have half a kingdom than none.[/Quote]

Question, what do you mean by what tywin has done with his forces, do you mean go to kings landing? If so what difference would this make? Also they have the Tyrells on their side now!

pixelburp

viztopia wrote: »

Question, what do you mean by what tywin has done with his forces, do you mean go to kings landing? If so what difference would this make? Also they have the Tyrells on their side now!

They may have the Tyrells on their side, but Robb has pretty much been an unstoppable force for most of the season - completely undefeated against the Lannisters' force & that was beginning to tell in terms of morale. Whilst the actions of Catlyn might have caused ructions in the Stark camp, I can only imagine that for the Lannisters, losing your commander-in-chief to the siege in Kings Landing would surely hand the initiative back to the King in the North™

Syferus

viztopia wrote: »

Question, what do you mean by what tywin has done with his forces, do you mean go to kings landing? If so what difference would this make? Also they have the Tyrells on their side now!

Casterly Rock (the Lannisters' seat of power), nevermind the skeleton crew Tywin left to man the battle-lines, would be over-run without much effort once Robb knows what Tywin has done, his move was completely predicated on the idea Robb wouldn't attack him until the forces he sent to retake Winterfell had returned. The Tyrells' are just a mid-level house (I'd wonder if at least some of Stannis' forces weren't Tyrell wards to begin with, since his switch seems to have been unexpected) and they'll have plenty to deal with on their own turf after attacking Stannis, their house boarders Baratheon territory in the south and I don't they'll care much that Loras was a bit emo that his lover got murdered by a smoke demon and decided to betray them.

This map demostates better than I ever could how dangerous a move it is by Tywin: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/#!/map/special/areas-of-control/4/

Robb's main forces are somewhere around Riverrun, dangerously close to Casterly Rock to begin with. Maybe he'd even think to attack King's Landing while its defences are weakened, but either way Robb is in a strong tactical position moving forward.

Just don't fúck it up by being all honourable and shít, bro.

Sleepy

You're underestimating the power of Highgarden. The Tyrell's control what would effectively be the bread basket of Westeros: remember when Loras was shaving Renley and they were talking about how the Lannisters were obscenely rich? Loras pointed out that his house were obscenely rich too.

golfball37

The Tyrells are the 2nd most powerful house after the Lannisters according to the guide. Other houses are jealous of their wealth.

Syferus

golfball37 wrote: »

The Tyrells are the 2nd most powerful house after the Lannisters according to the guide. Other houses are jealous of their wealth.

It's pretty clear now that the Lannisters and the Starks are the core powers in Westeros now that the Baratheon forces have been deeply wounded. The Tyrells will have plenty of fallout from betraying the Baratheons to deal with as well, it's not like they can suddenly throw their entire forces against the Starks, indeed it's questionable if most of their wards would even want to do that to begin with because they were on the Baratheon side until five minutes ago, which obviously would also tie them to the Starks. That the Lannisters' wealth hasn't had a telling impact on the war hints at the Tryells' not being that much of a game-breaker either. The Eyrie still hasn't declared for the Starks but if push came to shove even Catelyn's insane sister would be hard-pressed to remain neutral.

It's also questionable how loyal Loras really is to the cause, he knows full well that Renly was at war with the Lannisters long before the current conflict. His sister is obviously eyeing up the throne but who knows if the alliance can actually last any length?

DL Saint

With people saying how Tywin has lead his forces to Kings Landing along with the Tyrells, they do realise that was just a companion cavalry (or so it appeared). This means the strong Lannister force is still at Casterly Rock.

With regards to the Tyrells as well as them being the 2nd richest family in Westeros, they also recieved a percentage of Renly's bannermen who flocked to Loras when Renly was killed. This makes them a powerfull force.

Now the reasons for the alliance for the Tyrells are threefold.
Loras swore revenge on Stannis and he wants to achieve that at all costs.
Margarey wants to be the Queen and she has a chance if they are joined with the Lannisters.
The Tyrells also want to be linked to the most powerful family in Westeros for further prosperity.

With regards to people guessing Tywins reaction, I think if he was going to punnish Joffrey he would have rode back from Harrenhall before now to do so. Also Joffrey is the motherf***ing King, what he says goes

I do however think that Tywin may punish Tyrion if he finds out the Shae is still with him, as he forbid him from bringing her to Kings Landing in season 1!

Syferus

DL Saint wrote: »

With people saying how Tywin has lead his forces to Kings Landing along with the Tyrells, they do realise that was just a companion cavalry (or so it appeared). This means the strong Lannister force is still at Casterly Rock.

With regards to the Tyrells as well as them being the 2nd richest family in Westeros, they also recieved a percentage of Renly's bannermen who flocked to Loras when Renly was killed. This makes them a powerfull force.

Now the reasons for the alliance for the Tyrells are threefold.
Loras swore revenge on Stannis and he wants to achieve that at all costs.
Margarey wants to be the Queen and she has a chance if they are joined with the Lannisters.
The Tyrells also want to be linked to the most powerful family in Westeros for further prosperity.

With regards to people guessing Tywins reaction, I think if he was going to punnish Joffrey he would have rode back from Harrenhall before now to do so. Also Joffrey is the motherf***ing King, what he says goes

I do however think that Tywin may punish Tyrion if he finds out the Shae is still with him, as he forbid him from bringing her to Kings Landing in season 1!

Well Joffrey is a complete puppet ruler, he handles some of the pleas made to the throne but outside that Tyrion wouldn't let him within an ass's roar of actual decisions. Getting rid of Jorfrey would curry alot of favour with the locals (who were in open revolt before the siege) and Tywin certainly has shown himself to be ruthless enough to take action of that magnitude.

Tywin was quite clear in episode eight - it was extremely dangerous course to take because it left Harrenhall (the base of operations for his army on the frontline) almost empty. If Robb breaks south he'll effectively cut the Lannisters' lands in two, and that's at the very least. Casterly Rock, like Winterfell, will be particularly lightly defended as almost all able-bodied men will be in the massed armies and King's Landing would be the place to send soldiers if you were going to bloster a city's defences.

It was entirely predicated on Robb not attacking until he was at full strength again. Robb only sent about 200 men to recapture Winterfell anyways so he's hardly severely undermanned. As Tywin alluded to earlier this season, the Starks seem to have far better information on the Lannisters than they have on the Starks.

On top of that, the Starks are about to come into contact with Robert Baratheon's only (known) surviving son and if they play their cards right they'll have what's left of the Baratheon forces flocking to their cause. There's every chance that Robb would want to install him on the iron throne given he's the only person approaching having a blood claim to Robert's kingdom now that Stannis is out of the immediate picture.

lynski

Syferus wrote: »

On top of that, the Starks are about to come into contact with Robert Baratheon's only (known) surviving son and if they play their cards right they'll have what's left of the Baratheon forces flocking to their cause. There's every chance that Robb would want to install him on the iron throne given he's the only person approaching having a blood claim to Robert's kingdom now that Stannis is out of the immediate picture.

but the only person who might have even an inkling of who he is is Cersei and she is not going to tell.

ziedth

Does Osha not know who he is?

Dubhlinner

lynski wrote: »

but the only person who might have even an inkling of who he is is Cersei and she is not going to tell.

Was he given escape to the wall by the armourer or someone higher up?The latter was tortured to find out where he went but I wonder could littlefinger could have had something to do with it. always keeping his options open

There's also the possibility someone in winterfell/the wall might work it out from knowing robert before he swears the black oath

lynski

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Was he given escape to the wall by the armourer or someone higher up?The latter was tortured to find out where he went but I wonder could littlefinger could have had something to do with it. always keeping his options open

There's also the possibility someone in winterfell/the wall might work it out from knowing robert before he swears the black oath

i think he went voluntarily to the wall, possibly ser lorch knows who he is but he thinks he is dead, and as an unacknowledged bastard he has no standing beyond a friend of aryas
ah sorry verys knows about him too

Syferus

lynski wrote: »

i think he went voluntarily to the wall, possibly ser lorch knows who he is but he thinks he is dead, and as an unacknowledged bastard he has no standing beyond a friend of aryas

He's not become a recurring character for two full seasons to not be revealed as Robert's son; someone will know or someone will put the pieces together.

Remember that Arya and Gendry himself know the Kingsguard were looking to kill him and it's public knowledge that Joffrey had them kill as many children as possible in King's Landing, as is the fact Joffrey is an inbred and illegitimate heir to Robert's throne. This isn't a puzzle that's hard to put together.

lynski

Syferus wrote: »

He's not become a recurring character for two full seasons to not be revealed as Robert's son; someone will know or someone will put the pieces together.

Remember that Arya and Gendry himself know the Kingsguard were looking to kill him and it's public knowledge that Joffrey had them kill as many children as possible in King's Landing, as is the fact Joffrey is an inbred and illegitimate heir to Robert's throne. This isn't a puzzle that's hard to put together.

he is believed to be dead tho and only gendry and arya know what he looks like, it is possible that the story could be put together, but he is not more legitimate then jeoffrey and at least he has money. i dont think that he is an important character

Syferus

lynski wrote: »

he is believed to be dead tho and only gendry and arya know what he looks like, it is possible that the story could be put together, but he is not more legitimate then jeoffrey and at least he has money. i dont think that he is an important character

Joffrey has no control or influence over House Baratheon and they certainly aren't teaming up with Tyrell after what just happened, Gendry's going to have a very important role in uniting Baratheon forces behind Robb now that Stannis has exited stage left.

Dubhlinner

lynski wrote: »

i think he went voluntarily to the wall, possibly ser lorch knows who he is but he thinks he is dead, and as an unacknowledged bastard he has no standing beyond a friend of aryas

I remember he told Arya he was an armorer before getting told he was being sent to the wall. We know he's a good apprentice from the scene with ned in the first series so it seems his boss must have known his life was in danger because he'd hardly have wanted him taken from the armoury. Unless the nights watch recruiter paid him off or something. And in that scenario someone must have told him to take him out of kings landing too

Dubhlinner

Syferus wrote: »

He's not become a recurring character for two full seasons to not be revealed as Robert's son; someone will know or someone will put the pieces together.

Remember that Arya and Gendry himself know the Kingsguard were looking to kill him and it's public knowledge that Joffrey had them kill as many children as possible in King's Landing, as is the fact Joffrey is an inbred and illegitimate heir to Robert's throne. This isn't a puzzle that's hard to put together.

I do think he is going to be a recurring or main character. However I think he was killed to hide the fact Robert's heirs were dark haired rather than him being a claimant to the throne. He is a bastard so Stannis would be the threat in that scenario

Syferus

Dubhlinner wrote: »

I do think he is going to be a recurring or main character. However I think he was killed to hide the fact Robert's heirs were dark haired rather than him being a claimant to the throne. He is a bastard so Stannis would be the threat in that scenario

Well Stannis is likely to lose his head by Loras' sword next week so that shouldn't be much of an issue. House Baratheon will be in complete disarray now after losing three lords in quick succession and losing a major engagement at King's Landing; it's the perfect time to offer up a true son of Robert Baratheon, their now-legendary leader, as an option.

lynski

i dont think stannis is gone, they have lost a battle not the war.
they all seem to have bastards around the place but there are no claims to anything from what it would seem.
the killing of the bastards was to cover up the fact that jeoffrey was not robert's son as all baratheons were born dark haired, but as this is now known widely that is not longer an issue.

i am curious tho as daenerys sees herself as heir to the iron throne, would that make stannis' daughter a legitimate heir also? as well as jeofferys sister?

Syferus

lynski wrote: »

i dont think stannis is gone, they have lost a battle not the war.
they all seem to have bastards around the place but there are no claims to anything from what it would seem.
the killing of the bastards was to cover up the fact that jeoffrey was not robert's son as all baratheons were born dark haired, but as this is now known widely that is not longer an issue.

i am curious tho as daenerys sees herself as heir to the iron throne, would that make stannis' daughter a legitimate heir also? as well as jeofferys sister?

Stannis has been captured and with his reputation, nevermind Loras' quest for vengeance (I'm sure the alliance with the Lannisters was on condition he got Stannis for himself), they'd be stupid not to dispense with him. Save from the red-haired lady cooking something up, Stannis is cooked one way or another.

She's obviously after power and I don't doubt she'll find someone else to use (the Onion knight and his son, if they survived, anyone?), I can't imagine she cares what happens to Stannis beyond how it effects her.

On Daenerys it's more about her having the dragons and being the last remaining Targeryen (outside of Castle Black's very old maester) than it has to do with her being a 'regular' heir - women have been consistently shown to not be lineal heirs to thrones throughout the series. It's how the English crown generally worked, queens were only put into power by sheer force of will or desperation, otherwise a younger son would be first in line.

titan18

Syferus wrote: »

Stannis has been captured and with his reputation, nevermind Loras' quest for vengeance (I'm sure the alliance with the Lannisters was on condition he got Stannis for himself), they'd be stupid not to dispense with him. Save from the red-haired lady cooking something up, Stannis is cooked one way or another.

She's obviously after power and I don't doubt she'll find someone else to use (the Onion knight and his son, if they survived, anyone?), I can't imagine she cares what happens to Stannis beyond how it effects her.

What makes you think he was captured

Syferus

titan18 wrote: »

What makes you think he was captured

He scaled the wall almost alone and was overrun by Lannister forces there, nevermind the fact Tywin and Loras' charge cut off any chance of him escaping back down the wall. His shot is gone.

DL Saint

Syferus wrote: »

He scaled the wall almost alone and was overrun by Lannister forces there, nevermind the fact Tywin and Loras' charge cut off any chance of him escaping back down the wall. His shot is gone.

But his men retreated and when we last saw him he was being forced back by his own men, so I would have concluded that he eventually fled with the remainder of his men.

titan18

Syferus wrote: »

He scaled the wall almost alone and was overrun by Lannister forces there, nevermind the fact Tywin and Loras' charge cut off any chance of him escaping back down the wall. His shot is gone.

Those were his own men dragging him away

Syferus

titan18 wrote: »

Those were his own men dragging him away

Maybe they were; it was only a two second clip. Either way I don't see how you escape from such an exposed position without being captured when all your men on the ground have been routed.

pixelburp

It's hard to see how Stannis escapes in that scenario: his overwhelming majority was blown-up by wildfire, and his remaining attack force was then destroyed by both Tyrion's sneak attack & Tywin's unexpected cavalry charge.
He may not be dead by the end of episode 9, but he's trapped in the lion's den, public enemy #1 with barely any forces left to protect him & even if he were to somehow skulk back to Dragonstone, it's hard to see what future he'd have when the Lannisters / Tyrells decide to take revenge. Methinks the Baratheons are finished; in fact the only remaining male heir (if we discount Stannis) is Joffrey, and ... well, he's not exactly a true-blood

mikemac1

I never once thought Stannis was captured.

His men dragged him away and his army retreated back to the boats.

The defenders have no navy, they can't tackle the boats out there.
Sure they lost a lot of boats but they had a vast fleet, plenty to get the army away

DL Saint

pixelburp wrote: »

in fact the only remaining male heir (if we discount Stannis) is Gendry

Fixed your post