Season 2 Episode 9 - *Have Read The Books/Spoilers*

Frisbee

Pretty good episode imo

Can't believe they

took out the chain though!

donnacha

Looking forward to watching this tonight - had been just reading the have not read the books thread and was thinking it odd there was

no mention of the chain

Pepe LeFrits

Frisbee wrote: »

Pretty good episode imo

Can't believe they

took out the chain though!

Yeah, gutted I won't be able to show off my nerdy historical knowledge of Constantinople to my friends now

Awesome episode though.

We have WON!

Poor Davos. Stannis is starting to grow on me, he may be a lunatic but he certainly isn't all talk.

MitchKoobski

Don't see why we need spoiler tags for the chain in this thread, we've read the books and openly discussed it elsewhere.

I thought the episode was fantastic. 10/10. Multiple quotes that will stand out for the series, and my favourite part had to be the look on The Hound's face. It was perfect.

There was a good article about the making of this episode and the battle. They had to go and ask HBO extra money for the battle itself as we saw it, trying to work in the chain would have just stretched things too far from what they had to work with. http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/27/game-of-thrones-blackwater-2/

titan18

No chain does piss me off but not as much as the unexplainable stupidity of Stannis and Davos in bringing all their fleet up around one single vessel. Done of budget reasons obviously but it was retarded all the same.

Rest of it was good, bar some continuity issues like knowing nothing about Sandor coming up to the fight, but it shows what Martin can do adapting his own book rather than the hacks employed for the other episodes

Wildfire explosion was really good, but the effects of the rest of the episode were laughably bad. When Tyrion goes out, there's a part where he chops a guys leg off that looks terrible.

Loved The Rains of Castamere, and Martin's nod to book readers with the Bronn-Sandor showdown

Frisbee

Was wondering how they'd handle mutilating Tyrions nose too and not too surprised they just copped out of it all together.

DarkDusk

I seriously couldn't contain myself during Tyrion and Joffrey's conversation on the battlements (and the Hound's and Lancel's too!). "Hound, tell the Hand that the King has asked him a question..." OMG I laughed so hard when I saw the Hound's expression on his face as he spoke to Tyrion, has to be one of the funniest moments in all the 2 seasons so far! Does anyone agree?

Btw, that episode was awesome! 10/10

Jelle1880

Absolutely brilliant episode, I can't be the only one (after seeing the youtube clip of the song after last week's episode) that sniggered like a little kid when they were singing Rains of Castamere ?

As for the things like the chain, I'm really starting to think that this has to be seen as an adaptation of the books, and not a copy.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Denerick

Definately the best episode of the season so far! Glad they spent some money on the battle of the blackwater, though a bit annoyed that they left out the chain. Absolutely brilliant. And Tyrion - I think I've a man crush on him

Thepoet85

Great show tonight. I've been looking forward to this one for ages!! :-)

Going to be difficult to top that next week eh! :-)

titan18

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Great show tonight. I've been looking forward to this one for ages!! :-)

Going to be difficult to top that next week eh! :-)

Not looking forward to next week's at all. They're going to have somehow do House of the Undying, Jon and Qhorin, aswell as finish off on Arya,Winterfell, Robb,Jaime etc, and probably ending on the Fist of the First Men and the three horn blasts. It's going to be very cutty

myk

titan18 wrote: »

Martin's nod to book readers with the Bronn-Sandor showdown

How is that a nod to book readers?

Jelle1880

titan18 wrote: »

Not looking forward to next week's at all. They're going to have somehow do House of the Undying, Jon and Qhorin, aswell as finish off on Arya,Winterfell, Robb,Jaime etc, and probably ending on the Fist of the First Men and the three horn blasts. It's going to be very cutty

Next week's episode will be 70 minutes long I heard, might give them more time to push all that in there.

Jelle1880

myk wrote: »

How is that a nod to book readers?

Don't read if you haven't read the books:

He is asked at one time to champion for Tyrion again, against Sandor Clegane, and refuses.

At least that's how I understood it in the episode.

OctavarIan

titan18 wrote: »

Not looking forward to next week's at all. They're going to have somehow do House of the Undying, Jon and Qhorin, aswell as finish off on Arya,Winterfell, Robb,Jaime etc, and probably ending on the Fist of the First Men and the three horn blasts. It's going to be very cutty

Final episode is going to be 70 minutes long. Not a huge amount of extra time but I'd say 70 minutes is enough. Dany's arc will probably end abruptly on a cliffhanger while she's still inside the House of the Undying.

myk

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Don't read if you haven't read the books:

He is asked at one time to champion for Tyrion again, against Sandor Clegane, and refuses.

At least that's how I understood it in the episode.

I forgot about that.

Sleepy

IIRC, it's

Gregor Clegane

that Bronn refuses to go up against...

titan18

myk wrote: »

How is that a nod to book readers?

Have you never wondered who'd win between Bronn and Sandor in the first two books. I mean they're both great fighters, and would be a good match for each imo. Anything extra added in that has some sort of potential fight between the likes of Bronn,Sandor,Gregor,Jaime and others we might never see in the tv series is awesome.

The best swordsman, fighters etc is pretty much common ground on http://asoiaf.westeros.org/ with going with stuff like past characters like Dayne, Rhaeger etc to the likes of Bronn,Cleganes etc. Speculating on greatest warriors etc in the book period, and in everything we're told about history is great fun.

Jelle1880

Sleepy wrote: »

IIRC, it's

Gregor Clegane

that Bronn refuses to go up against...

Oops, my bad

Bookworm85

Quite enjoyed tonight's episode!

Loved the wildfire scene and the exchanges between Joffrey and Sansa where she 'presumed' he would be out beyond the city walls. It was nice to see her stand up to him a little!

Was a little disappointed that the chain was excluded, but we were all pretty certain it wouldn't make an appearance so I think I'll get over it.

There's so much left to cover yet, so I'm wondering how they'll finish off the season next week

Gbear

Frisbee wrote: »

Was wondering how they'd handle mutilating Tyrions nose too and not too surprised they just copped out of it all together.

I thought they did aswell as they could.

He (Preston Greenfield or Boros?) cut across his face, cutting into one cheek, through Tyrion's nose and through the other cheek.
A scar is probably easier to makeup on than concealing his nose.
An inch or 2 further forward and he would've cut his head in half - the justification for having him bedridden for half the next series.

Don't really get the Hound/Bronn dick measuring.

What was with the lack of helmets? Oftentimes they're useful in battle.
Leaving them out was too stupid and required too much disbelief suspension.

I presume it was so as to be able to recognise the actors but the Hound's helm is a hound and he could take it off or put the visor up if he needed to speak.
Stannis' lack of a helm was even more ridiculous - he had to scale walls with rocks raining on him. Presenting him wearing a helm with antlers and burning hearts last week or at the start of the episode would not have been stupid and left him still recognisable.


Didn't seem to properly capture what happened to Lancel. Seemed inoccuous enough. Dunno why they couldn't have had him go out again and get a sword in the face or something.


End was rushed. Seemed unncessary given how much fluff there was in the episode.
The cavalary arriving, "Renley's ghost" were kinda glossed over in about 4 seconds.
Didn't really believe the scale of the battle. With their budget it just wouldn't have been feasible to do it anywhere near justice even though the explosion was quite nice.

Bar a few odd decisions they did about as good as possible without infinite money.

9/10

Owryan

Really enjoyed the way Sansa was able to show some inner strength with her interactions with Joffrey,Tryion and Cercei.

Tryions speech to his troops was a real "braveheart" moment and hopefully a 2nd emmy moment.

My biggest gripe was the way Cercei seemed to ave given up so easily. All along she has come accross as someone who does what needs to be done cbut tonight she had no fight in her at all. Just didnt sit right with her character at all.

But the wildfire explosion......................................holy pig**** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Antar Bolaeisk

Make sure to stay for the Rains of Castamere at the end!

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn2l2_v6Ur8

Youtube to the rescue.

thehairyone

I must have watched a different episode than everyone else. I thought it was a total let down. I thought the sandor mental breakdown when facing the fire wasnt believeable (it could have been handled much better with better character development for sandor throughout the series) and the whole sansa/sandor relationship was very clumsy throughout aswell.

I also dont like how davos's character has developed, in the episode it looks like he is completely at fault for the strategy employed during the battle and the total destruction of the ships while in the books it is the other lords stupidity that causes the rout. Which is annoying because davos is one of my favourite characters.

I know money is a factor but the battle scenes themselves looked very cheap. Didnt look like there was more than 100 fighting at the gates when there should have been thousands. The scar that tyrion looks to have received looks quite tame when in the books it is quite grotesque and is an important part of his characters development.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the stannis arc now in that he looks to have been captured. All in all a disappointing episode. Was expecting better, especially considering that GRR Martin wrote it.

titan18

thehairyone wrote: »

I must have watched a different episode than everyone else. I thought it was a total let down. I thought the sandor mental breakdown when facing the fire wasnt believeable (it could have been handled much better with better character development for sandor throughout the series) and the whole sansa/sandor relationship was very clumsy throughout aswell.

I also dont like how davos's character has developed, in the episode it looks like he is completely at fault for the strategy employed during the battle and the total destruction of the ships while in the books it is the other lords stupidity that causes the rout. Which is annoying because davos is one of my favourite characters.

I know money is a factor but the battle scenes themselves looked very cheap. Didnt look like there was more than 100 fighting at the gates when there should have been thousands. The scar that tyrion looks to have received looks quite tame when in the books it is quite grotesque and is an important part of his characters development.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the stannis arc now in that he looks to have been captured. All in all a disappointing episode. Was expecting better, especially considering that GRR Martin wrote it.

I agree with all of that, but for a standalone episode, this was the best of the 2nd season by a long way imo. It looked like they really struggled with the budget, I mean bar the wildfire explosion, the effects were terrible, and the battle looked like really small. Along with problems like the Kingsguard not being very identifiable (presumed it was Ser Mandon Moore who tried to kill Tyrion, but can anyone tell) and the fact that he tried to do it in a wide open space where a bunch could see him do it is kinda stupid (again stupid budget). The other problems with the episode are mainly failings of the rest of the season in not developing the likes of Sandor - Sansa, and other characters. Only main problem with this that's inexcusable, is Davos and Stannis sailing right into that one ship. Neither of them would do that.

But going overall, the battle was done better than I expected (was expecting all Cersei getting reports, and brief shots of the battle, but nothing well done), I love the Rains of Castamere being played at the end, and with Bronn singing in at the start and it wasn't all choppy as hell during it like the rest of the season

Frisbee

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Followed by a look of pride/amusement on Tyrions face. That whole scene with Sana/Tyrion/Joffrey the dialogue was brilliant.

Mr Freeze

Thought it was excellent, didn't even mind there being no chain there. :pac:

Was that Mandon Moore or Meryn Trant that attempted to kill Tyrion though? It looked like the actor that plays Trant, but it was Moore in the book that tried to kill him.

The GF went mad when he tried to kill Tyrion, she looked as shocked as poor Tyrion.

Sleepy

To do the Battle of the Blackwater as it was described in the books would require a full 90 minutes and a Lord of the Rings level budget imho.

With a Band of Brothers budget they could possibly have done better but let's face it, that has a *much* wider appeal to viewers and remains (afaik) the most expensive TV series ever made.

For a standard HBO budget, I think they did it brilliantly. Yes, it would have been better with more men, Stannis's cavalry, the chain, the wildfire behaving more like it did in the books (the stuff burned for ages in the books rather than the relatively quick explosion we saw here - without that, Sandor's breaking was difficult for them to pull off believably), the bridge of broken ships etc.

While some of us readers of A Song of Ice and Fire may be a bit disappointed in how the battle as portrayed in the books was adapted, this was a great episode of the tv series Game of Thrones and I'm definitely taking the two as distinct different series at this stage: it's kind of like watching a reboot of a story you've already heard a different version of (e.g. Nolan's Batman, the upcoming Amazing Spiderman etc.) same story told slightly differently. Some of it works better than the books, other bits don't work as well.

Budget's playing a huge factor in how they're telling the story on screen but that was inevitable given that GRRM wrote the series as novels in a direct response to his frustration at having to write to budget for television series he worked on in the past. Complaints about Tyrion still having a nose or the wildfire not being quite terrifying enough are, imho, akin to some of the LOTR fans complaining about the absence of Tom Bombadil from Jackson's screen adaptation of that fantasy series and he had multiples of the budget that Benioff and Weiss have for Game of Thrones (and for a movie trilogy that runs to about the same length as a single series of GOT).

backinexile

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Make sure to stay for the Rains of Castamere at the end!

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn2l2_v6Ur8

Youtube to the rescue.

Thought this was excellent, have listened to it a few times this morning

wyrn

I think I need to rewatch it again, I wasn't blown away. Maybe it was because I had read the book and knew what to expect. I was a little sad that the chain wasn't used, but I can understand budget restrictions.

The first thing that I noticed was that Bronn could sing, loved it. I'm sorry now that I imdb'd him - I didn't realise he Jerome Flynn from Soldier Soldier :eek:

Loved the all the quips, mainly around Tyrion. The interaction between him and Sansa are priceless.

For the battle, I just couldn't get into it. I didn't feel the pressure that Tyrion was under, the fear of being under siege. Well the last part a little when Cersei explained to Sansa what would happen if Stannis won. I felt the scenes on the battlement walls were like that from the Golden PSP espisode of South Park

My God, this is even bigger than the final battle in the Lord of the Rings movie! It's like, it's like TEN times bigger than that battle!

It seriously felt like at the start that there was only 10 soldiers that were on rotation for both Lannister/Baratheon sides. Then towards the end, more popped up. I just didn't get the huge epic deciding battle. It looked like Tywin had more men in his entourage than in the battle.

Thought it was a cop out that Tyrion's nose wasn't chopped off. This seems to be important as he is so badly injured that he almost dies, is kicked out of his room, his sister is praying for him to die and he becomes very bitter. It looks like he'll have a pretty scar than a disfigurement.

Loved Stannis getting into the thick of things. He's grown on me as has Davos. I thought more could have been done in relation to Davos talking to his sons on the other boats to show how much he lost in that battle. He didn't seem like a prominent character in this battle unlike the book.

Hmmm, I will rewatch it. I think it was just the scale of the battle that put a dampener on my mood.

thehairyone

Sleepy wrote: »

Complaints about Tyrion still having a nose or the wildfire not being quite terrifying enough are, imho, akin to some of the LOTR fans complaining about the absence of Tom Bombadil from Jackson's screen adaptation of that fantasy series and he had multiples of the budget that Benioff and Weiss have for Game of Thrones (and for a movie trilogy that runs to about the same length as a single series of GOT).

I can live with the wildfire not being as ferocious as the book portrays but I thought the manner in which it was achieved was quite lazy i.e. stanni's fleet getting blown up by one boat. It portrays Davos as being an idiot and thats not how he is in the book.

I think the grotesque scar as portrayed in the book is an important part of Tyrions development. We have yet the see how the TV series scar will look but it doesnt look too bad. The "grotesque" scar in the book makes people flinch in horror and makes Tyrion uglier than people already thought he was. He spends weeks/months in bed because of it, it turns people against him, the people of kings landing turn against him and sends him into a state of depression. All of which leads him to do the things he does later.

Sleepy

Tyrion's already too good looking in the tv series. He doesn't have the mismatched eyes or the same twisted body as described in the books. I really don't think his bitterness has much to do with losing his "good looks", it's to do with the lack of appreciation he gets for his role in this battle: he masterminded the defence of the city and held it long enough for Tywin to provide reinforcements and is then cast aside and mistreated by Tywin while he's recuperating from his wounds, the people of Kings Landing never had any love for him: he tried his best to rule fairly as Hand but when the King and Queen Regent are cruel idiots who believe in ruling through fear, he never had a chance of gaining their love/respect, his deformity was simply a barb to use against someone they already had reason to dislike, not the reason they disliked him.

Besides, the CGI required to remove his nose for the next 7/8 seasons would consume a huge amount of an already stretched budget.

ixoy

It was a little disappointing that they couldn't get the real epic size of the battle in there but I understand there's good budget reasons. CGI soldiers in great numbers would not have worked. It's a reality that some fans are just going to have to get used to as the series progresses.

Loved the character interactions in this: Tyrion with Bronn, Bronn with the Hound, the Hound with Sansa, Sansa and Cersei, and so on. Some great line deliveries. Seeing the men cheer the half-man and knowing what's to come was a little saddening.

Speaking of which - I wonder how they'll do Tyrion's scar? Again it's understandable as to why they've gone the route they did. Using heavy make up could add cost but I hope it's not just a thin line on this face.
Having said that, if we're going to complain about the scar we should be also up in arms about Tyrion's pre-scar look. He's far too good looking for the role of Tyrion who is much more mis-shappen and ugly in the books. It's more though about how others perceive him and that's what'll be important about this injury: how others react.

wyrn

Oh and I forgot, it's been a while since I read the books but doesn't the Hound ask Sansa to sing for him while he's a bit out of it in her room. I didn't believe the way he ran away from the fight. In the book you could understand but he came across as quite week. Also I thought he was meant to be a bit out of it, whereas he seemed fairly together when talking to Sansa.

Sleepy

Yeah, wildfire in the books was far more ferocious and lasted longer... much more something to break a man with a fear of fire than what we saw in the book.

mewso

thehairyone wrote: »

Will be interesting to see what they do with the stannis arc now in that he looks to have been captured.

I don't think Stannis has been captured. I read that scene as his men dragging him away because the fight was lost. One of several moments in series 2 where things weren't clear enough if you ask me. Half the folks on the other thread think Sansa has left with the hound. It would be a major departure from the books for Stannis to have been captured.

Gbear

wyrn wrote: »

Oh and I forgot, it's been a while since I read the books but doesn't the Hound ask Sansa to sing for him while he's a bit out of it in her room. I didn't believe the way he ran away from the fight. In the book you could understand but he came across as quite week. Also I thought he was meant to be a bit out of it, whereas he seemed fairly together when talking to Sansa.

In the books, the river was on fire, the docks were on fire, people were on fire. It was like hell on earth.

In the show there was a bit of fire over there. It didn't even make him look like a coward - he'd just cut 9 people in half. It just looked like a non-sequitur. It made as much sense as if someone lit a match in front of him and he ran away.

I think i'd have preferred they cut out entire chunks than half-arsed them.

In the first season when Tyrion got hit in the face with a warhammer instead of actually riding out into the battle they used that as a device to cut the battle.
I think they would've been better served just glossing over it here too. They just couldn't do it any justice so they should've made a workaround. Stay in the castle, show the explosion from afar and perhaps make Tyrion receive his wound just inside the castle gates. Completely cut everything from outside the city walls and only show Tywin and the Tyrells charging in the gates, killing whoever was left and the remaining ships sailing away from a distance.

stevenmu

Yeah, pretty sure that was Stannis' own men dragging him away. I think they really needed to make this a 2-parter, they glossed over things like that, Renly's ghost, the hound, and other things way too much. Still a great episode, but I can't help wondering if they were so busy worrying about how to manage the battle on a low budget (which they did a decent job of), that they dropped the ball elsewhere.

Sleepy

I think Renly's ghost worked better in the books than you could ever hope it to in the TV series so no harm leaving it out: many viewers are already struggling to keep up with all the characters and many would have even missed the fact that it was Loras that came into the Red Keep ahead of Tywin. Adding the illusion of a character they know to be dead into the mix would have only confused people imho.

I'd prefer if they'd left in the chain, shown Davos to be over-ruled by Stannis' other lords and found a way to have had some wildfire still causing unholy terror when the hound broke but I never expected it to be perfect as budget-wise you'd probably blow the entire season's budget on one perfect 90 minute version of this episode.

podgemonster

An absolutely legendary 56 minutes of television. Its important to remember that this is television and budgets are limited. An excellent decision to focus on Kings Landing, no switching, just one night, one city. The epsiode excited me more by starting off so peacefully, Davos on deck as his ships sails smoothly, Tyrion and Shae whispering in their beds and Bronn singing in the Tavern. Peace turns to fear by the chiling bells followed by the urgency of battle preparation. And finally it begins with a beautiful silent red arrow darting across the night sky.

The absent chain didn't bother me, Tyrions cunning and bravery wasn't undermined and Bronn lit the spark the battle, their contribution to the victory was upheld, imo. Cersei was as venomous as ever but one of her scenes could have been cut at least to give some intro to Ser Mandon Moore and Renlys ghost (how many non readers recognised Renlys armour), I didnt even realise Ser Mandon was in the show until Tyrion called him, for a moment I thought Pod would play the traitor (thank God i was wrong).

Stephen Dillane played Stannis perfectly as manic, brave, vicious leader. All those years of being cast aside by Robert, this was suppose to his night, he was like a wild animal in battle. A brief image of the fleeing of Renlys former bannermen from his ghost would have been welcomed, proving what Catelyn said to Renly "These are the Knights of Summer".

Cersei acceptance of defeat is despicable yet somewhat moving as she goes all Goebbels on Tommen. The throne rooom itself was cold, quiet and peaceful a great contrast to the destruction outside, I particularily like how the viewers are still uncertain of the outcome until Tywim (:eek:) and Loras burst into the room. I could only imagine how equally quiet it was as Jaime sat there, the Mad Kings body on the ground, awaiting someone to burst into the room.

Although the absence of the other main characters (Jon, Arya etc...) was a good thing, it wetts the appitite for the final episode.

Crucifix

Info on season 3 characters:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/29/game-of-throne-season-3-cast/
Glad to see

the Reeds, Brynden and the queen of thorns

.

titan18

Crucifix wrote: »

Info on season 3 characters:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/29/game-of-throne-season-3-cast/
Glad to see

the Reeds, Brynden and the queen of thorns

.

I was considering stopping watching this, but all is now saved. I love the Blackfish

beardedmaster

Great info there!

Tipsy McSwagger

Poor episode in a poor second season. This season bears little in comparison with the book and some of the entirely made up scenes are just painfully awful.

podgemonster

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Poor episode in a poor second season. This season bears little in comparison with the book and some of the entirely made up scenes are just painfully awful.

So they strayed away from the book in places and dropped a few characters, hardly an excuse to slate the entire series. The book itself is weaker than the first and third but i think the tv series has kept up with its predecessor.

The non readers would seem to disagree with you also in terms of the series especially the previous episode, they are loving it. You can see through the series that the producers were constraint by budgets and character development but I really think they did a great job and will continue through out the saga.

The majority of characters are perfectly cast and perform well, costumes, locations, music, story progression and gore is top notch and exceeds any tv production I have seen before (bar band of brothers).

The writers can't tell the viewers of a persons motives or past like in the narrative of a book so some scene were put together and some were cringe worthy (Lady Tulisa) but other scenes worked quite well. They spiced up Danys storyline, Arya and Tywins conversations were actual highlights, the scene where Theon burns a warning letter to Robb was especially poignant.

I think some book puritans need to realise that it's a lot easier to type something on a page than recreate it for the small screen.

titan18

podgemonster wrote: »

So they strayed away from the book in places and dropped a few characters, hardly an excuse to slate the entire series. The book itself is weaker than the first and third but i think the tv series has kept up with its predecessor.

The non readers would seem to disagree with you also in terms of the series especially the previous episode, they are loving it. You can see through the series that the producers were constraint by budgets and character development but I really think they did a great job and will continue through out the saga.

The majority of characters are perfectly cast and perform well, costumes, locations, music, story progression and gore is top notch and exceeds any tv production I have seen before (bar band of brothers).

The writers can't tell the viewers of a persons motives or past like in the narrative of a book so some scene were put together and some were cringe worthy (Lady Tulisa) but other scenes worked quite well. They spiced up Danys storyline, Arya and Tywins conversations were actual highlights, the scene where Theon burns a warning letter to Robb was especially poignant.

I think some book puritans need to realise that it's a lot easier to type something on a page than recreate it for the small screen.

Tbf, doing things like changings Danys storyline and budget constraints are ok. But the changes like Tulisa instead of Jeyne(if that doesn't change) and in particular Robb and Catelyn not finding out about Bran and Rickon are unnecessary and actually worsen it in comparison to the book. Also, changing Jon's character, who is many people's favourite character, into someone so stupid and clearly not as respected by Qhorin and Mormont. Also, Dany literally spends her scenes saying " I am the mother of dragons" or threatening to kill everyone.

Also, on your good points, barring the Rains of Castamere and the credits, I can't think of any music in this series, the costumes are pretty ****e especially in relation to the Lannister samurai uniform and the non-distintiveness of the Kingsguard. Location wise, whilst Iceland is pretty, the North of the Wall is meant to be pretty forested, and for example the Fist of the First Men was meant to be a hill that rises up out of a forest.


Whilst it's not fair to completely slate the 2nd season, although I still hate what they're doing with it, it's not exactly excellent either, especially in comparison to the 1st season.

ceegee

Jesus Christ some people here have high standards. If that episode was sh*te Id like to see what ye consider decent tv, it was up there with the best single episodes of any show ive seen.

And slagging the costumes ? Its pretty much movie standard and way ahead of most tv shows.

Its a show ADAPTED from the books, stop expecting it to play out and look exactly as it did in your head reading it

myk

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Poor episode in a poor second season. This season bears little in comparison with the book and some of the entirely made up scenes are just painfully awful.

You do know that both the Song of Ice book series and the Game of Thrones TV series are works of fiction? Every scene is entirely made up. :eek:

Tipsy McSwagger

podgemonster wrote: »

So they strayed away from the book in places and dropped a few characters, hardly an excuse to slate the entire series. The book itself is weaker than the first and third but i think the tv series has kept up with its predecessor.

The non readers would seem to disagree with you also in terms of the series especially the previous episode, they are loving it. You can see through the series that the producers were constraint by budgets and character development but I really think they did a great job and will continue through out the saga.

The majority of characters are perfectly cast and perform well, costumes, locations, music, story progression and gore is top notch and exceeds any tv production I have seen before (bar band of brothers).

The writers can't tell the viewers of a persons motives or past like in the narrative of a book so some scene were put together and some were cringe worthy (Lady Tulisa) but other scenes worked quite well. They spiced up Danys storyline, Arya and Tywins conversations were actual highlights, the scene where Theon burns a warning letter to Robb was especially poignant.

I think some book puritans need to realise that it's a lot easier to type something on a page than recreate it for the small screen.

The defense of Kings Landing in the book was a really brilliant thing. Of course budget restraints meant we would never get to see anything like the way it went down in the book. But what I find laughable is the defense of Kings Landing in the TV show came down to an unmanned ship spouting dragonfire from its arse. It made no sense. Tyrion has the mind of a great military leader and his big surprise is an unmanned ship that has to sail directly towards Stannis and pray that the wind is in his favour on that particular night to do so. It makes no sense at all that Tyrion would do something so stupid.

podgemonster

titan18 wrote: »

Tbf, doing things like changings Danys storyline and budget constraints are ok. But the changes like Tulisa instead of Jeyne(if that doesn't change) and in particular Robb and Catelyn not finding out about Bran and Rickon are unnecessary and actually worsen it in comparison to the book. Also, changing Jon's character, who is many people's favourite character, into someone so stupid and clearly not as respected by Qhorin and Mormont. Also, Dany literally spends her scenes saying " I am the mother of dragons" or threatening to kill everyone.

Also, on your good points, barring the Rains of Castamere and the credits, I can't think of any music in this series, the costumes are pretty ****e especially in relation to the Lannister samurai uniform and the non-distintiveness of the Kingsguard. Location wise, whilst Iceland is pretty, the North of the Wall is meant to be pretty forested, and for example the Fist of the First Men was meant to be a hill that rises up out of a forest.


Whilst it's not fair to completely slate the 2nd season, although I still hate what they're doing with it, it's not exactly excellent either, especially in comparison to the 1st season.

The first paragraph I tend to agree, can't see why a missed raven couldn't have told Catelyn of Bran and Rickons murder, paving the way to her unhinging. As for Dany, in the books all she does is sit around Quarth refusing offers for her dragons, I like what the show did, even if she gets a bit sickening. Jon is a victim of the time constraints of the episodes, they didnt have time to development him. In 9/10 epsidoes with about 2 scenes per episode Jon must go from departing Castle Black to being taken in by the wildlings, its a pity but the end result is the same and he still has an episode to redeem himself. Jon is respected by Mormont in the show i found.

As for the second paragraph I really think you are delusion or trolling if you dont rate the music, locations and think the costumes are "pretty sh***". The costumes on the show are lavish and unique. Have you not seen Jofferys gold and red garments, Renlys Stag armour, the wolfskin coats of the Starks, Ironborns oilskins, the gowns of the high born ladys. The Lannister armour in particular is equisite, with crimson red. The Kings guards do stand out with gold plated armour and white capes, perhaps the colour on your tv need adjusting. The producers took inspiration from around the world when designing the costume of the cast, so you can see that Lannisters head gear is inspired by Samurai, who were great warriors so maybe they are benifical shaped like that.

The music is excellent, the scores during the birth of the shadow and theons revelation of the burned corpes were particularily good, with music on film and tv is only when its not there that you miss it but music plays a big part in building up the tension and adding to excitement in scenes.

Yes Iceland is beautiful and so were Pyke scenes and the Stormland & Westerlands scenes filmed in N.I. (particularily the shot of Jaime and Brienne heading down the river) and Croatia makes an excellent kinglands landing. So what if the North of the wall is missing trees, its is still a harsh, vast and merciless envoirment that really all that matters.