Racism Euros - Panorama tonight 8.30 BBC1

Mr. Presentable

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They were Liverpool fans and not England fans.

Not just Liverpool fans. The hooligans were composed also of Man U, West Ham, Newcastle firms. So, correctly, English fans.

briany

s.welstead wrote: »

Balotelli must be really stupid. So it's ok to murder someone now as long as you feel you've been racially abused. :eek:

What a muppet, he's opened himself up for a lot of abuse and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few opponents try to get a rise out of him now because of it.

That thing about the bananas could be absolutely hysterical if he does take it the wrong way.

In order to nix any possibility of the banana thing being taken wrong or out of context, could there be banners brought, strategically placed that read,

"THIS BANANA THING IS A BIT OF AN IN-JOKE. NOT RACIST. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING TO DO WITH A WEIRD FYFFE'S PROMOTION. THEY MAKE BANANAS. AGAIN, NOT RACIST. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME."

stesaurus

briany wrote: »

In order to nix any possibility of the banana thing being taken wrong or out of context, could there be banners brought, strategically placed that read,

"THIS BANANA THING IS A BIT OF AN IN-JOKE. NOT RACIST. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING TO DO WITH A WEIRD FYFFE'S PROMOTION. THEY MAKE BANANAS. AGAIN, NOT RACIST. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME."

Can Balotelli actually read?

stovelid

listermint wrote: »

Im going and i certainly wont be taking any chances, ive travelled enough to know when to leg it. I also know that alot of people dont believe that crap either that the irish are untouchable so its getting tiring after your 3rd attempt at repeating it.

Maybe saying that at the start would have sufficed instead of answering well-intentioned observations with gimpy, snide remarks.

stesaurus

Beefy78 wrote: »

He didn't say it was ok, he said how he'd react.

I disagree, it's premeditated. He's thought about it and justified a response in his own mind. So he thinks that's ok.

cournioni

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Not just Liverpool fans. The hooligans were composed also of Man U, West Ham, Newcastle firms. So, correctly, English fans.

Where did you get this from? Link please.

eagle eye

Racism/Soccer players/Soccer fans is like mass energy equivalence/english teachers/people that thing they know something about english and maths.

LiamMc

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Seems like the British media have found their new scapegoat.

How many articles and programs is that now on the 'racism in Europe' ?

Reminds me of those 'YOU'RE GONNA GET STABBED AND RAPED AND KILLED IN SOUTH AFRICA' bollocks.

cournioni wrote: »

Over sensationalist rubbish from the BBC yet again. Didn't they do it for South Africa and Germany before also? Of course there will be odd spots of bother, most of which will be organised between rival firms in the woods, but I wouldn't expect full scale riots inside or just outside the stadiums.

I remember heading to the CL final in Rome with people saying that United fans would get savaged by the Roma and Lazio fans. The only bother I heard of was between fellow United fans. The locals were quite friendly to be honest.

That's the first thing that crossed my mind when Lescott and Campbell came out with 'Our Family won't be able to travel'. Abuse towards any individual is a nasty thing, but stating fear of some unspecified future abuse from a named subject is unfair.

Having been to football club grounds in Ukraine and Poland it's a shame that a similar nonsense, scare-tactics is being uttered in the build-up to another Football Tournament.

After the absolute garbage uttered before the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, when the anti-South Africans were allowed to guarantee that violence would be visited on Football Supporters up to two years before the event.

The Anti-World Cup 2010 types were reduced to slagging off the vuvuzela as a way of slagging off a culture. 'Cos nobody want's noise in a Football Stadium.

Because Football is a Global Sport and is able to hold events in different parts of the World, the criticism and fear-mongering before each major Tournament is Anti-Football.

Beefy78 wrote: »

I didn't watch the Panorama show because I suspected that it would be a fair bit of sensationalism, just as the shows prior to SA 2010 were and the ones just before Brazil 2014 no doubt will be.

That said, I don't think it's anything other than a very good thing that this issue is brought out now into people's consiousness. I'm going to the Euros with a couple of other English lads, one of whom is mixed-race. The media coverage is encouraging us to be savvy and keep our wits about us, which I don't think is bad advice.

I just hope that everyone - English, Irish and everyone else, can just go over there, enjoy themselves, enjoy the football, enjoy a few beers in good weather and get home safely.

I hope you enjoy yourselves.

hideous ape

cournioni wrote: »

Where did you get this from? Link please.

It's been known from day one that Heysel was an all-England event that kicked off because of the violence in Rome in '84 the previous year. Liverpool's fans got battered in '84, women and children took some serious beatings and stabbings while the police and local Italians did nothing to help them. One year later and the Juve fans were marked for revenge as a stand in for getting back at the Roma fans. All over England the different hooligan firms sent some of their "best" nutters to Heysel to cause trouble. Police knowledge wasn't as detailed as it is today because most of those traveling would have been stopped but back then they could travel freely as unknowns.

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/plain/A713909

"It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army. After the events in Rome, club rivalries had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite."

http://www.bigsoccer.com/soccer/david-bolt/2011/05/29/heysel-lest-we-forget/

"The previous season Liverpool had played Roma in the European Cup final. UEFA in all its wisdom had allowed the game to be played in Rome. After Liverpool won by penalty shoot-out, the visiting fans were attacked outside the ground by thousands of Roma hooligans. One 13 year old was slashed so many times to his face he needed 200 stitches. The Italian police offered no protection, indeed some fans accused them of joining in the beatings. Coach drivers refused to take groups of fans back to their hotels, leaving them having to seek sanctuary in the British embassy. News of this travelled around England and many of the hooligan firms all over the country were spurred into action. Despite the divisions of Italy meaning that Turin may as well be on Mars as far as the Romans are concerned, to the English they were one and the same and Juventus’ fans had to pay for Roma’s sins."

GavRedKing

hideous ape wrote: »

It's been known from day one that Heysel was an all-England event that kicked off because of the violence in Rome in '84 the previous year. Liverpool's fans got battered in '84, women and children took some serious beatings and stabbings while the police and local Italians did nothing to help them. One year later and the Juve fans were marked for revenge as a stand in for getting back at the Roma fans. All over England the different hooligan firms sent some of their "best" nutters to Heysel to cause trouble. Police knowledge wasn't as detailed as it is today because most of those traveling would have been stopped but back then they could travel freely as unknowns.

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/plain/A713909

"It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army. After the events in Rome, club rivalries had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite."

http://www.bigsoccer.com/soccer/david-bolt/2011/05/29/heysel-lest-we-forget/

"The previous season Liverpool had played Roma in the European Cup final. UEFA in all its wisdom had allowed the game to be played in Rome. After Liverpool won by penalty shoot-out, the visiting fans were attacked outside the ground by thousands of Roma hooligans. One 13 year old was slashed so many times to his face he needed 200 stitches. The Italian police offered no protection, indeed some fans accused them of joining in the beatings. Coach drivers refused to take groups of fans back to their hotels, leaving them having to seek sanctuary in the British embassy. News of this travelled around England and many of the hooligan firms all over the country were spurred into action. Despite the divisions of Italy meaning that Turin may as well be on Mars as far as the Romans are concerned, to the English they were one and the same and Juventus’ fans had to pay for Roma’s sins."

This is one of the worse parts of the above.

citytillidie

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Not just Liverpool fans. The hooligans were composed also of Man U, West Ham, Newcastle firms. So, correctly, English fans.

Oh you did not say that.

Don't you know it was all Liverpools fault, they don't want to know that other firms also travelled to Belgium.

TangyZizzle

A nice example of what could happen to lads stepping out of line in the Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FjM24EdBqo

Warper

Wow, I never know this bit either - shocking form by LFC:

"I think it was really shameful that it took Liverpool 25 years to put up a memorial for those that died Heysel around Anfield. Even now there’s only a small plaque at Anfield which you wouldn’t notice unless you were looking for it. While a plaque is a small step forward, the club should have done something years ago. Hopefully, if the club moves to a new stadium, something more fitting will be installed.

hideous ape

Warper wrote: »

Wow, I never know this bit either - shocking form by LFC:

"I think it was really shameful that it took Liverpool 25 years to put up a memorial for those that died Heysel around Anfield. Even now there’s only a small plaque at Anfield which you wouldn’t notice unless you were looking for it. While a plaque is a small step forward, the club should have done something years ago. Hopefully, if the club moves to a new stadium, something more fitting will be installed.

I think if I remember correctly the Juve families wouldn't allow Liverpool mark it using a memorial at Anfield, they simply refused to allow it. At a new stadium I would expect the club to get Juve involved in something more fitting for the tragedy. Anfield might be leveled in a few years time for all we know.

But I'm almost certain that Juve and the families told Liverpool for years that they didn't want anything put up at Anfield. I think it was even a lot of hassle to just get them to allow that plaque. You have to be given the green light from the people involved to put up such emotional memorials and if they say no then you have to respect their wishes.

Will I Amnt

hideous ape wrote: »

"Source"

First of all,I would not consider somebody's blog a source.
Is there not something a bit more valid on this??

Secondly,the poster earlier mentions Man U firms,I don't even see any reference to that in those links.
I have heard of Manchester firms being involved but not club specific.

Thirdly,and correct me if I'm wrong here but I was under the impression that these other firms were involved outside the ground and earlier in the day.
Is there evidence of them being involved in the actual disaster?

The_Kew_Tour

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Not just Liverpool fans. The hooligans were composed also of Man U, West Ham, Newcastle firms. So, correctly, English fans.

Proof of this?

The_Kew_Tour

citytillidie wrote: »

Oh you did not say that.

Don't you know it was all Liverpools fault, they don't want to know that other firms also travelled to Belgium.

I doubt it somehow. There were plenty of banners in Hysel celebrating Munich 58.

Not going say anymore on this but im actually baffled and find it sad that people cant accept what there club did.

99.99% of Liverpool fans went watch football, but Jesus you cant tag everyone along with you

Heard it all now

Im out.

Renn

mike65 wrote: »

Part of me hopes some Paddies get smashed on day one so the smugness is wiped away pretty quickly.

Classy.

Warper

hideous ape wrote: »

I think if I remember correctly the Juve families wouldn't allow Liverpool mark it using a memorial at Anfield, they simply refused to allow it. At a new stadium I would expect the club to get Juve involved in something more fitting for the tragedy. Anfield might be leveled in a few years time for all we know.

But I'm almost certain that Juve and the families told Liverpool for years that they didn't want anything put up at Anfield. I think it was even a lot of hassle to just get them to allow that plaque. You have to be given the green light from the people involved to put up such emotional memorials and if they say no then you have to respect their wishes.

Thats fair enough if thats the case

Lawrence1895

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Proof of this?

I remember the German magazine 'Der Stern' claiming, there were members of Combat 18', 'Blood and Honour' and other Neo-Nazi groups involved. Or was it the 'BILD'-newspaper?

citytillidie

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I doubt it somehow. There were plenty of banners in Hysel celebrating Munich 58.

Not going say anymore on this but im actually baffled and find it sad that people cant accept what there club did.

99.99% of Liverpool fans went watch football, but Jesus you cant tag everyone along with you

Heard it all now

Im out.

Nothing to do with Liverpool as a club more the "fans" or thugs who went to cause trouble.

Also have to ask about the Juve fans who started the whole thing by attacking a smaller section of Liverpool fans in the block z which was for the Belgium FA

You also seem to leave out the Juve fan who was suspected of firing a gun at the police, this later turned out to be a starters pistol but looking at it is was very sinister, how could a fan get into a ground with that?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/heysel-remembered-the-horror-of-a-tragedy-waiting-to-happen-531167.html