The Ubiquity of Rugby

eyescreamcone

Could the IRFU, as a project, fund coaching in disadvantaged schools with a view to entering teams in the schools cups in a short period of time.
This would be expensive but would show a great desire for change.

For instance there is about 10 teams in the munster schools cup - surely 3 or 4 new schools could be picked and flooded with coaching/money to bring them up to speed quickly.

ormond lad

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If 4 out of 18 at academy level is progress, then it'll be an issue for a long time to come!

It is progress as in the past you would be lucky to have 1 maybe 2 in the academy at a time who came from the youths/non traditional schools structure. There is now more kids registered as rugby players in clubs and non traditional schools than the big senior cup, 'rugby-playing' schools and the difference in playing numbers will only increase as the provincial branches put more and more resources into developing rugby in areas like kerry/west cork, donegal, sligo, longford/westmeath
4/18 is about a 1/4 of the academy which isnt too bad and this figure will increase due to increased work being put in by academy staff/ development staff

ormond lad

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Could the IRFU, as a project, fund coaching in disadvantaged schools with a view to entering teams in the schools cups in a short period of time.
This would be expensive but would show a great desire for change.

For instance there is about 10 teams on the munster schools cup - surely 3 or 4 new schools could be picked and flooded with coaching/money to bring them up to speed quickly.

The IRFU development staff, coaching development officers and youth development officers, do go to schools in areas where clubs are not as strong/where rugby is not played currently with the aim of developing and increasing interest in the sport.
There should be more schools in the munster schools cup especially in cork city where it is a great shame that top standard schools rugby has never expanded beyond CBC and PBC. It is also a great shame that not enough work has been put into developing the game in Waterford city and expanding the game to the point where there is either a top standard school capable of competing with the likes of St Munchins/CBC/PBC/ Rockwell or a club capable of competing with Waterpark and to a lesser degree Waterford City rfc

Yamanoto

eyescreamcone wrote: »

This would be expensive but would show a great desire for change.

Show it to who?

You?

The IRFU have plainly demonstrated a genuine commitment to broaden the reach of the game across all four provinces.

Now you want to micro-manage how they do it?

Doubtless their efforts sit uneasily with you, as they fly in the face of your all too apparent prejudices and preconceptions.

eyescreamcone

ormond lad wrote: »

There should be more schools in the munster schools cup especially in cork city where it is a great shame that top standard schools rugby has NEVER expanded beyond CBC and PBC. It is also a great shame that not enough work has been put into developing the game in Waterford city and expanding the game to the point where there is either a top standard school capable of competing with the likes of St Munchins/CBC/PBC/ Rockwell or a club capable of competing with Waterpark and to a lesser degree Waterford City rfc

Have to agree with the above 100%.

Kev.OC

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I'm giving out that working class lads have been under represented in the national team for a long time. The development system remains undemocratic and biased towards people with money to send their kids to rugby schools (most are fee paying).

I'm open to correction, but presumably kids who go to private, fee paying schools, receive more training. This training might possibly be to a higher standard, which will make them better players. Better players will get picked for the professional teams.

So, from a coaching point of view, it's not undemocratic and biased, it's simply picking the best possible players for your team.

You could very well be right from a developmental point of view. Honestly though I don't know enough about the ongoing development of club rugby to justify getting into a debate about it.

For the record, I'm not saying what happens is in anyway right, but it's very simple to understand how it comes about with regards to player selection.

Monty Burnz

Kev.OC wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but presumably kids who go to private, fee paying schools, receive more training. This training might possibly be to a higher standard, which will make them better players. Better players will get picked for the professional teams.

Well that, and the fact that very good club players are given scholarships to the rugby schools so a lot of them end up in the schools system too.

eyescreamcone

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Kev.OC wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but presumably kids who go to private, fee paying schools, receive more training. This training might possibly be to a higher standard, which will make them better players. Better players will get picked for the professional teams.

Well that, and the fact that very good club players are given scholarships to the rugby schools so a lot of them end up in the schools system too.

Very few players in the scheme of things get scholarships. A lot of schools do not give them.

For instance in cork - of the 2 rugby schools, PBC do not give out scholarships.

Monty Burnz

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Very few players in the scheme of things get scholarships. A lot of schools do not give them.

For instance in cork - of the 2 rugby schools, PBC do not give out scholarships.

It may be 'few' players, but you only need to pick up the top 5% of promising young players and it skews the whole picture.

Duckworth_Luas

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I would imagine that gaelic football would be very easy to play with little knowledge of the game.
Catch it.
Don't run too far with the ball in your hands.
Kick it towards the other teams goal.

No offsides or very technical rules like rugby.
(Very simplified version)

Hurling is as simple but the skill of rising the ball and hitting it is very difficult to master if not learnt at a young age.

What a f**king carcrash of a thread!!

Utter nonsense being spouted by people all over the place!

Blazer

Can't stand the fúckin sport. To me it makes no sense whatsoever.
Guy with ball looks at 10 big guys in front of them..
thinks to himself "the sensible thing here would be to pass the ball to my team mates and try to get around them,..eh fúck that..I'll try and run through them...I'm sure to get past the 10 of them"
Dumb@ss sport

Monty Burnz

Blazer wrote: »

Can't stand the fúckin sport. To me it makes no sense whatsoever.
Guy with ball looks at 10 big guys in front of them..
thinks to himself "the sensible thing here would be to pass the ball to my team mates and try to get around them,..eh fúck that..I'll try and run through them...I'm sure to get past the 10 of them"
Dumb@ss sport

:pac:

If you are good enough, it can be done...(action starts around 40 second mark)

Liveforrugby

I'm sorry but if you play footy you're probably low on testosterone. It should be in our nature to want to hit people. The reason I love rugby so much is because it gives me the oppurtunity to legally hit people. Football is a load of piss

Mardy Bum

Liveforrugby wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you play footy you're probably low on testosterone. It should be in our nature to want to hit people. The reason I love rugby so much is because it gives me the oppurtunity to legally hit people. Football is a load of piss

You probably should get your anger issues checked out.

Liveforrugby

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You probably should get your anger issues checked out.

You should probably get your testosterone levels checked out.

Liveforrugby

Besides chicks dig rugby players. Nuf said

eyescreamcone

Liveforrugby wrote: »

Besides chicks dig rugby players. Nuf said

I see your effort and raise you

Claudine Keane!






Not too good at putting links up but just google Euro 2012 WAGS and you'll get my drift!!!

jack presley

To all the people going on about how football players are sissys with all their crying and rolling around as If shot, I'll let you in on a secret - they're not really hurt. That little tap they got didn't really hurt them. They are only pretending. If they can convince the referee they got hit hard and unfairly, they will get a free kick. And the opposing player might get booked or even sent off! So they're not really sissys. I'd imagine some are actually quite tough.

I have a question for rugby supporters though. What does the term 'footballer' mean in rugby? George Hook is always going on about how Brian O'Driscoll is a great footballer. I don't think I've ever seen him do any keepey-uppies

Tigger

jack presley wrote: »

To all the people going on about how football players are sissys with all their crying and rolling around as If shot, I'll let you in on a secret - they're not really hurt. That little tap they got didn't really hurt them. They are only pretending. If they can convince the referee they got hit hard and unfairly, they will get a free kick. And the opposing player might get booked or even sent off! So they're not really sissys. I'd imagine some are actually quite tough.

I have a question for rugby supporters though. What does the term 'footballer' mean in rugby? George Hook is always going on about how Brian O'Driscoll is a great footballer. I don't think I've ever seen him do any keepey-uppies

i'm g;lad you asked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UGFTLJ6-Y

Pherekydes

jack presley wrote: »

I have a question for rugby supporters though. What does the term 'footballer' mean in rugby? George Hook is always going on about how Brian O'Driscoll is a great footballer. I don't think I've ever seen him do any keepey-uppies

I'm not a rugby supporter, but Rugby is a type of football, just like GAA, American Football, Aussie Rules, Rugby League and eh, Soccer.

Their participants are all referred to as football players.

DEFTLEFTHAND

jack presley wrote: »

To all the people going on about how football players are sissys with all their crying and rolling around as If shot, I'll let you in on a secret - they're not really hurt. That little tap they got didn't really hurt them. They are only pretending. If they can convince the referee they got hit hard and unfairly, they will get a free kick. And the opposing player might get booked or even sent off! So they're not really sissys. I'd imagine some are actually quite tough.

I have a question for rugby supporters though. What does the term 'footballer' mean in rugby? George Hook is always going on about how Brian O'Driscoll is a great footballer. I don't think I've ever seen him do any keepey-uppies

Along with Rugby League the sport falls under the catch term of Rugby Football.

eyescreamcone

Would it ever be the case where a rugby "footballer" would come off the park after a game without having kicked the ball once???

Would there ever be more than one player who never kicked the ball in any one game???


I can't remember Paul O'Connell doing much fancy footwork.
I do remember Zinzan Brooke getting a drop goal from miles out, but that was years ago.

eyescreamcone

In the NFL there are guys who never TOUCH the ball for a whole season (hand or foot).

How did I play??
Same as last week!!!

Paparazzo

Liveforrugby wrote: »

Besides chicks dig rugby players. Nuf said

Chicks dig soccer:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056664734

DEFTLEFTHAND

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Would it ever be the case where a rugby "footballer" would come off the park after a game without having kicked the ball once???

Would there ever be more than one player who never kicked the ball in any one game???


I can't remember Paul O'Connell doing much fancy footwork.
I do remember Zinzan Brooke getting a drop goal from miles out, but that was years ago.

Yeah a lot of the time really, the forwards usually wouldn't make a kick during a game.

Pherekydes

eyescreamcone wrote: »

In the NFL there are guys who never TOUCH the ball for a whole season (hand or foot).

How did I play??
Same as last week!!!

I'd imagine they're graded on the job they do, rather than the number of times they kick the ball. :rolleyes:

Mal-Adjusted

Pherekydes wrote: »

I'd imagine they're graded on the job they do, rather than the number of times they kick the ball. :rolleyes:

i'd imagine rugby players are graded the same way :rolleyes:

eyescreamcone

Pherekydes wrote: »

I'd imagine they're graded on the job they do, rather than the number of times they kick the ball. :rolleyes:

Probably, but you gotta love when there is a fumble and they all dive on hoping that they'll touch the ball this year.

Heroditas

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Could the IRFU, as a project, fund coaching in disadvantaged schools with a view to entering teams in the schools cups in a short period of time.
This would be expensive but would show a great desire for change.

For instance there is about 10 teams in the munster schools cup - surely 3 or 4 new schools could be picked and flooded with coaching/money to bring them up to speed quickly.

It's being done.
HERE is a link to an example of how the CCRO system in Leinster is working.
However, it takes years to develop and bring kids up to an acceptable standard in rugby to be able to compete against the likes of Blackrock, Clongowes, Terenure etc. If a school in a disadvantaged area was fast-tracked into the Leinster Senior Cup, they'd get absolutely destroyed.
I've seen relatively decent underage club sides get torn to shreds by the seconds and thirds teams in some of the weaker schools. A lot of this is because the kids playing rugby in the schools are getting trained 3-4 times a week and are getting regular game time against other schools.
At club level, the clubs struggle to get the kids down even twice a week and just don't have the time in the evenings to train them to as high a standard. As a result, you see the majority of the best players filtering through from the schools because they've been developed properly. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of good players slip through the net because they don't attend the rugby playing schools but all this is gradually changing and the IRFU and respective branches are putting in a lot of work to identify these talented players.
In a lot of cases, kids need to take up rugby early to be very good at it. It helps develop the skills, awareness etc.
Also, a lot of it involves teaching kids how to react when they are tackled or rucked. You gradually get naturally conditioned to all the thumps and bumps you pick up playing rugby. I played it from when I was 7 and even though I wasn't particularly well-built, I only ever got a broken nose and a broken arm over the next 30 years by way of serious injuries. On the other hand, I've seen lads who only took up the sport in their 20s suffer a lot of bad injuries such as breaks and muscle tears etc because they haven't been "conditioned" as they grew up.

Anyway... I love rugby and certainly enjoy watching a good game of football. Both have a lot to offer us.
Bad games of rugby are just as bad to watch as bad games of soccer! It's brilliant watching the likes of Barcelona or Spain play, just as it is enjoyable watching the likes of New Zealand or Wales play.

Pherekydes

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i'd imagine rugby players are graded the same way :rolleyes:

I don't know why you're aiming that at me; I was answering Ice cream cone's sarcastic reference to the NFL.

eyescreamcone

Heroditas wrote: »

It's being done.
HERE is a link to an example of how the CCRO system in Leinster is working.
However, it takes years to develop and bring kids up to an acceptable standard in rugby to be able to compete against the likes of Blackrock, Clongowes, Terenure etc. If a school in a disadvantaged area was fast-tracked into the Leinster Senior Cup, they'd get absolutely destroyed.
I've seen relatively decent underage club sides get torn to shreds by the seconds and thirds teams in some of the weaker schools. A lot of this is because the kids playing rugby in the schools are getting trained 3-4 times a week and are getting regular game time against other schools.
At club level, the clubs struggle to get the kids down even twice a week and just don't have the time in the evenings to train them to as high a standard. As a result, you see the majority of the best players filtering through from the schools because they've been developed properly. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of good players slip through the net because they don't attend the rugby playing schools but all this is gradually changing and the IRFU and respective branches are putting in a lot of work to identify these talented players.
In a lot of cases, kids need to take up rugby early to be very good at it. It helps develop the skills, awareness etc.
Also, a lot of it involves teaching kids how to react when they are tackled or rucked. You gradually get naturally conditioned to all the thumps and bumps you pick up playing rugby. I played it from when I was 7 and even though I wasn't particularly well-built, I only ever got a broken nose and a broken arm over the next 30 years by way of serious injuries. On the other hand, I've seen lads who only took up the sport in their 20s suffer a lot of bad injuries such as breaks and muscle tears etc because they haven't been "conditioned" as they grew up.

Anyway... I love rugby and certainly enjoy watching a good game of football. Both have a lot to offer us.
Bad games of rugby are just as bad to watch as bad games of soccer! It's brilliant watching the likes of Barcelona or Spain play, just as it is enjoyable watching the likes of New Zealand or Wales play.

Good post!
But if a lad is trained 3-4 times per week in school A shouldn't he be able to compete with school B 6 years later???

Heroditas

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Good post!
But if a lad is trained 3-4 times per week in school A shouldn't he be able to compete with school B 6 years later???

In theory, yes.
However, I have an idea that a lot of it is dynastic.
Guys who went to rugby schools and played rugby will send their sons there. Those sons will probably then send their sons to a rugby playing school. It's like one big genetic experiment!
If you look at schools like Blackrock, they've been playing rugby there for over 100 years and a lot of students there come from rugby backgrounds. It's like a form of heritage. Their father, grandfather, great grandfather all played the sport.
That doesn't exist in the other non-rugby playing schools that are relatively new to the sport.
Some of these rugby schools are essentially nurseries for the national team.

A lot of the core skills are learned before a kid hits 12. After that, the dearth in skills-coaching amplifies any other differences.
Again, this is all being worked on but I really feel we're looking at a very long time frame.

The_Kew_Tour

[Jackass] wrote: »

This thread is funny.

Most people who hate rugby are insecure and have an inferiority complex to people who go to private schools etc who happen to play rugby, or maybe went to one and were bullied.

I'd like to see these people call Sean O'Brien, for example, a posh toff, from the bog arse end of nowhere and the biggest farm head on in imaginable.

Secondly, these people don't have a clue and have probably never been to a rugby game and lack the intellect to realise that Ross O'Carroll Kelly books are works of fiction, and not a college thesis documenting human behaviour. The word "D4's" is thrown around, without actually knowing what a D4 is...apart from anyone without a knacker accent maybe? And areas such as Blackrock and Foxrock...which are nowhere near D4..but again, and inferiority complex towards the wealthy, because people think the rich are better than them, so hate them.

As for football, I like it, but the Irish football fan is the biggest mug going, supporting Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool....places they have absolutely no connection to what so ever, but don't support a local team in the Irish league, and don't support QPR or Barnet City, as they just want the quick fix and glory. Only top teams. At least rugby people are real fans, supporting their local teams, and Irish football fans are fickle glory hunters by default. Also, the state of the Irish "fans" booing the English team off their bus in Poland, have they nothing better to do? And come September they'll all be arguing again about how Rooney is the best striker in the league etc. and passionately defending a player, despite booing him off a bus a few short months ago.

Football fans are muppets. The sport is decent, but it's gotten a lot worse over the last 10 - 20 years.

This is one of the funniest posts I have read in quite some time.

So much fail.

Heroditas

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This is one of the funniest posts I have read in quite some time.

So much fail.

What's particularly funny is:

Most people who hate rugby are insecure and have an inferiority complex to people

Followed by

Football fans are muppets.

Irony?

Monty Burnz

jack presley wrote: »

To all the people going on about how football players are sissys with all their crying and rolling around as If shot, I'll let you in on a secret - they're not really hurt.

Well that's all right then.

eyescreamcone

Monty Burnz wrote: »

jack presley wrote: »

To all the people going on about how football players are sissys with all their crying and rolling around as If shot, I'll let you in on a secret - they're not really hurt.

Well that's all right then.

Rugby boys do this too.
And add fake blood for effect

Monty Burnz

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Rugby boys do this too.

It happens, but it's severely frowned upon and you wouldn't even see it once per game.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

And add fake blood for effect

Well that happened once that we know of. You might as well claim that soccer matches end in the deaths of dozens of fans - at least that has several precedents...

Mal-Adjusted

Pherekydes wrote: »

I don't know why you're aiming that at me; I was answering Ice cream cone's sarcastic reference to the NFL.

sorry about that, misread your comment the first time

Liveforrugby

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This is one of the funniest posts I have read in quite some time.

So much fail.

I assure you that what he is saying is the truth. The complex IS there, and what makes it worse is that it's so obvious. A lot of people, unfortunately, despise rugby because they think it's only for the rich

eyescreamcone

Heroditas wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Good post!
But if a lad is trained 3-4 times per week in school A shouldn't he be able to compete with school B 6 years later???

In theory, yes.
However, I have an idea that a lot of it is dynastic.
Guys who went to rugby schools and played rugby will send their sons there. Those sons will probably then send their sons to a rugby playing school. It's like one big genetic experiment!
If you look at schools like Blackrock, they've been playing rugby there for over 100 years and a lot of students there come from rugby backgrounds. It's like a form of heritage. Their father, grandfather, great grandfather all played the sport.
That doesn't exist in the other non-rugby playing schools that are relatively new to the sport.
Some of these rugby schools are essentially nurseries for the national team.

A lot of the core skills are learned before a kid hits 12. After that, the dearth in skills-coaching amplifies any other differences.
Again, this is all being worked on but I really feel we're looking at a very long time frame.

Good points
But for anyone that is outside of the loop of this "dynastic system" it can be hard to break in.

It's this exclusion that means a large proportion of the population don't feel that Ireland Rugby/provinces represent them.

This cycle is hard to breakdown.

Ghost Buster

An observation from one with no interest in any sport:
A hard tackle in -
GAA: Leads to an all out brawl involving both teams, half the supporters, the parish priest
Soccer : The tackled player rolling around the ground as if he has just been shot
Rugby: Ummmmmmmm...nothing. The player gets back up or is helped up by the tackler and the game continues.

Mardy Bum

Ghost Buster wrote: »

An observation from one with no interest in any sport:
A hard tackle in -
GAA: Leads to an all out brawl involving both teams, half the supporters, the parish priest
Soccer : The tackled player rolling around the ground as if he has just been shot
Rugby: Ummmmmmmm...nothing. The player gets back up or is helped up by the tackler and the game continues.

You have to take the rules of the game into account.
In rugby if someone does an illegal tackle (spearing gouging etc) players do get angry.
In football if a player punches another player then a scuffle usually ensues.
In soccer if someone throws themselves forty feet in the air and aims themselves like a projectile at the opposing players ankles they are going to go down and make sure the player is punished. Obviously in soccer diving is much more common but with the huge sums of money involved its no surprise.

The_Kew_Tour

Liveforrugby wrote: »

I assure you that what he is saying is the truth. The complex IS there, and what makes it worse is that it's so obvious. A lot of people, unfortunately, despise rugby because they think it's only for the rich

His other posts were better though.

Heroditas

eyescreamcone wrote: »

It's this exclusion that means a large proportion of the population don't feel that Ireland Rugby/provinces represent them.

This cycle is hard to breakdown.

Indeed and that's where the clubs like Guinness, Clondalkin and Tallaght have a role to play.

Micky Dolenz

Where I'm from most people would have played at some level and nearly all of us would not be considered from rich families or went to exclusive schools.

eyescreamcone

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Where I'm from most people would have played at some level and nearly all of us would not be considered from rich families or went to exclusive schools.

You're definitely not from Cork so

Micky Dolenz

eyescreamcone wrote: »

You're definitely not from Cork so

Finished up playing for a Cork club though. There are loads of clubs in this country that are community based and struggling. To say rugby is an elitist sport is simply untrue.

eyescreamcone

In Cork city there are 5 clubs

Dolphin and Sundays Well are both located at musgrave park so are almost the same club
Highfield
Cork Con
Old Christians

Where I'm from nobody plays rugby.


Ps UCC/CIT have a composite team also

Monty Burnz

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Where I'm from nobody plays rugby.

Maybe you need to stop moaning and establish a club?

ormond lad

eyescreamcone wrote: »

In Cork city there are 5 clubs

Dolphin and Sundays Well are both located at musgrave park so are almost the same club
Highfield
Cork Con
Old Christians

Where I'm from nobody plays rugby.


Ps UCC/CIT have a composite team also

How are Dolphin and Sundays Well "almost the same club" as they play in the same grounds. Thats not true at all