The Ubiquity of Rugby

norrie rugger

recylingbin wrote: »

I'll be honest, I couldn't stand the hi jinks in the showers after the game.

So you want to add homophobic comments to your generalisation of rugby?

stovelid

It's not so much that I detest it but more that I have zero interest in it. I wasn't brought up with it and never played it as a kid so it's understandable. I've no real gripe with the IRFU either so I don't dislike it out of hand they way that I do some other sports.

I guess it can be a little irritating to see the bandwagoning around rugby it but that's the same with any sport when it is going through a popular phase.

geeky

I do think some people support 'the rugby' as a class statement. It's like buying organic, having a cafetiere, or indeed holding certain political views. It's perfectly normal why anyone would do it in and of itself, but it's associated with a certain segment of the population that the media happen to be obsessed with, and the whole fixation with the sport has snowballed from there.

Let's be honest: most people, trying to convey a certain impression, would be quicker to say than they went to the Aviva or watched Leinster down the pub than, say, the ultras end of Tallaght stadium on a Friday night.

Then there's also the fact that - even to someone who doesn't follow the sport at all - there are actually some bloody good Irish teams out there. Success breeds interest.

Procasinator

smash wrote: »

So If I work for a company that generates circa 60 million a year I should get paid more too?

It really depends on how much of the wealth you personally are generating. It can be hard to measure, but if you are generating a lot of wealth for someone than you can command a higher salary. If there is too much discrepancy between how much you are generating and how much you are being compensated for it, you are likely to get a higher salary elsewhere or if viable start your own business.

Some players are probably are paid ridiculous amounts, but it's also quite obvious that many generate huge amounts of revenue through ticket sales, merchandise, e.t.c. and should be compensated appropriately for this.

Big Nasty

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

When the country shuts down on Sunday 10th June 2012 I think we'll know which international sport is and always has been the most popular in Ireland

The red tops are the most popular type of newspaper in this country - doesn't stop them from being full of sh1te though! :pac:

smash

Procasinator wrote: »

It really depends on how much of the wealth you personally are generating. It can be hard to measure, but if you are generating a lot of wealth for someone than you can command a higher salary.

yea, I don't see that many millionaire programmers for Microsoft walking around, do you?

krudler

its funny how in Dublin its seen as a posh lads game, whereas here in Limerick its a total working class sport, and always has been. there was a lot of bandwagon jumping with Munster in recent years, which pissed long time fans off as it made it impossible to get tickets for big matches, some of my uncles have been Munster supporters for decades and go to games where hen parties full of rugger huggers are being told to stfu in the stands for their constant squawking.

I'm not a fan of it but dont dislike it either, its a far more interesting game to watch than football and isnt full of diving primadonnas who get stretchered off for a stray elbow or barely being touched.

foxyboxer

Procasinator wrote: »

It really depends on how much of the wealth you personally are generating. It can be hard to measure, but if you are generating a lot of wealth for someone than you can command a higher salary. If there is too much discrepancy between how much you are generating and how much you are being compensated for it, you are likely to get a higher salary elsewhere or if viable start your own business.

Some players are probably are paid ridiculous amounts, but it's also quite obvious that many generate huge amounts of revenue through ticket sales, merchandise, e.t.c. and should be compensated appropriately for this.

Consider the Ronaldo Real Madrid transfer.
€90 million paid to Man Utd.

Oh, money is ruining the game! That's complete madness!

Yet Ronaldo paid his own transfer fee and then some through merchandise, shirt sales alone.

Footballers are contractors. No loyalty to a particular club for the majority. They will go and play where the will make the most. That's not greed, it's common sense.

Should Rugby become more popular globally, then shouldn't the highest purveyors of the sport be compensated adequately? Too right they should.

stovelid

krudler wrote: »

iand isnt full of diving primadonnas who get stretchered off for a stray elbow or barely being touched.

If you're talking about diving in football, I hate it too, but hopefully you're not talking about the hoary old on-pitch violence constitutes a nice manly sport thesis so tediously prevalent in this country.

RobbieTheRobber

krudler wrote: »

its funny how in Dublin its seen as a posh lads game, whereas here in Limerick its a total working class sport, and always has been. there was a lot of bandwagon jumping with Munster in recent years, which pissed long time fans off as it made it impossible to get tickets for big matches, some of my uncles have been Munster supporters for decades and go to games where hen parties full of rugger huggers are being told to stfu in the stands for their constant squawking.

I'm not a fan of it but dont dislike it either, its a far more interesting game to watch than football and isnt full of diving primadonnas who get stretchered off for a stray elbow or barely being touched.

I tought the bandwaggoning in Munster goes back to that game against the all blacks in 1978 and sure nearly everyone in munster will tell you they were at that even those born after it.

foxyboxer

smash wrote: »

yea, I don't see that many millionaire programmers for Microsoft walking around, do you?

If they are top programmers then I'm sure they would have share options etc.
And depending on how well Microsoft were to perform then their wealth would rise in relation to it.

cailinardthair

bullvine wrote: »

From what I can tell about rugby, its always predictable, the good teams beat the crap teams, there doesnt appear to be much giant killing happening in it, that you get in Football, you'd never see the likes of Romania beating New Zealand in the World Cup but in the Football it happens in every tournament.

Its the same in rugby. You can get teams that should lose to the better team but they cause an upset.
In the Heineken Cup this year Connacht who got beaten by every team in there group beat Harliqiuns putting them out of the championship and also having a runner up place in the Amlin Cup. Edinburgh beating Toulouse, which is France number one team.
In international level you had a untested young England team who lost most of there players due to various reasons beating almost everybody bare Wales.
Ireland beating Australia in the world cup in the southern hemisphere which had never happen before.
And that's only in the last year. Its the same in any sport, you have upsets games and predicable games. Its sport. That's what makes it exciting.

smash

foxyboxer wrote: »

If they are top programmers then I'm sure they would have share options etc.
And depending on how well Microsoft were to perform then their wealth would rise in relation to it.

I wouldn't presume that.

Captain Plan It

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I prefer rugby over soccer for two reasons: Firstly because it's a more complex and interesting game, (less linear in my opinion)

how can you describe a game in which there are specific restrictions on which direction the ball can be moved as "less linear" than a a free flowing game like football???

Procasinator

smash wrote: »

yea, I don't see that many millionaire programmers for Microsoft walking around, do you?

In Ireland, not so much, but if you were around Silicon Valley you'd probably see a lot. When Microsoft was a smaller company, you can bet that many became millionaires from their stock alone. Not the best source, but if you read the first paragraph of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft you would see that an estimated 12,000 employees were made millionaires from their stock options.

Many of them would have also seen that the market was ripe, would have left the company and gone off and done their own start ups. You would see this now often too, as a lot of money is changing hands over there at the moment.

Let us not forget that Microsoft has 89k+ employees. The likelihood that one individual programmer is generating the same revenue as some of the top footballers is unlikely. There is also a lot more available talent among high-quality software developers then there is in high-quality footballers.

krudler

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I tought the bandwaggoning in Munster goes back to that game against the all blacks in 1978 and sure nearly everyone in munster will tell you they were at that even those born after it.

its not exactly a bandwagon being a fan of something for over 30 years though is it, thats just being a fan. I mean the people who started watching in the last 4-5 years who only follow it when they're winning, only go to heineken cup matches, ignore smaller games and magners league games etc, or couldnt even tell you half the rules or name some of the players on the team they claim to love.

Zab

St.Spodo wrote: »

To reply to the second part, I think it would be a lot easier for a person who has the correct physical make up to become a quality rugby player than it would be for someone to become a quality football player. John Hayes didn't start playing rugby until he was 18. It would be nigh on impossible to start playing football at 18 and turn professional and excel in that sport.

Drogba didn't sign a pro contract until he was 21. Klose was a professional carpenter before he was a footballer. I don't know if you'd find many players who hadn't kicked a ball before they were 18, but that's firstly going to be down to the ubiquitousness of football. There's also the fact that, because football is a much more popular sport, the base of its skill pyramid is much larger and its apex probably higher too.

Essentially I just think they're both good sports. Rugby definitely has a wider range of positions some of which require more physical strength than any position if football requires and as it's a contact sport strength comes into play more than it does in football, generally speaking. I don't believe this detracts from the game. I also think that rugby is somewhat more difficult to appreciate (i.e. to learn where the skill/differences between teams lie).

I actually prefer watching football to rugby these days.

krudler

stovelid wrote: »

If you're talking about diving in football, I hate it too, but hopefully you're not talking about the hoary old on-pitch violence constitutes a nice manly sport thesis so tediously prevalent in this country.

yes :pac: full contact sports are great craic to watch, rugby, NFL, ice hockey (where not only is fighting encouraged, it has its own set of rules)

bullvine

cailinardthair wrote: »

Its the same in rugby. You can get teams that should lose to the better team but they cause an upset.
In the Heineken Cup this year Connacht who got beaten by every team in there group beat Harliqiuns putting them out of the championship and also having a runner up place in the Amlin Cup. Edinburgh beating Toulouse, which is France number one team.
In international level you had a untested young England team who lost most of there players due to various reasons beating almost everybody bare Wales.
Ireland beating Australia in the world cup in the southern hemisphere which had never happen before.
And that's only in the last year. Its the same in any sport, you have upsets games and predicable games. Its sport. That's what makes it exciting.

I dont think Ireland beating Australia is quite the same as Senegal V France 2002 or Cameroon V Argentina 1990, I mean Ireland still has some of the best players on the planet and only recently won the Grand Slam.

StephenHendry

i like all three in equal measure. i think the atmosphere, craic at gaa games is great and the other two, soccer and rugby don't have this imo. although to an extent, rugby does have good camraderie between the fans.

for pure excitement, hurling can produce real drama as yesterdays game showed where tipp looked dead and buried at one stage being 7 points down against limerick. a score i.e. goal can change the outlook of a hurling game very dramatically

Dravokivich

krudler wrote: »

its not exactly a bandwagon being a fan of something for over 30 years though is it, thats just being a fan. I mean the people who started watching in the last 4-5 years who only follow it when they're winning, only go to heineken cup matches, ignore smaller games and magners league games etc, or couldnt even tell you half the rules or name some of the players on the team they claim to love.

I only started watching Rugby at the tail end of the 2008 6N while I was at a mates house. Got interested in it and watched it more since. Just so happened to coincide with Munster / Leinster dominating Mangers and HEC and the Grand Slam that was obtained in 2009.

Damn me for getting an interest in something just as the teams kick into a high gear.

Initially I didn't know who was who or what the rules were and only started getting my head around most of the basics of it through out the 2011/2012 season.

I got to learn and enjoy more of it, with the more I went to experience of it. But it started off slowly. Doesn't really help creating a "Bandwagon" attitude that a few people seem to push forward.

Mr Benevolent

smash wrote: »

It's a proper full contact sport. Soccer is shíte.

And the GAA is just yokels playing bastardised basketball or smacking each other in the face with hurleys. Rugby isn't as partisan, tends to attract a more intelligent and civilised audience (in Ireland anyway). Plus it's just more interesting to watch than primadonnas falling down every time someone doesn't trip them up.

CruelCoin

markesmith wrote: »

The players themselves are lauded as gentlemen and warriors, and the epitome of manliness.

tl;dr version: Am I the only person that finds it puzzling that rugby is so popular?

You answered your own question.

Rugger Buggers are real men compared to GAA and Soccer players.

UnknownSpecies

Going to start off by saying I love both football and rugby. I played soccer up until I was 14 and since then I have played rugby to a pretty decent level so I know the ins and outs of the sport. I must say, people in here have pretty stupid and warped ideas about the skill levels needed to play rugby. Anyone who plays rugby will know of a player who is physically excellent; muscular, strong and quick but has absolutely no brain for it. The amount of skill involved is unbelievable, not only must you have the physicality and endurance, you must also be very clever and be able to read a game and be ahead of the game by a couple of phases. Unless you played you wouldn't understand.

That said, although I find rugby better to watch and play, I think being a football fan is the best. While the actual games aren't as entertaining, the drama, hype, accessibility to news and soap opera-esque nature of summer transfer market makes it enthralling.

This is the way I see it. Rugby is that movie that critics, rave about yet doesn't seem to get the praise it deserves from the everyday movie-goer. Football is that dumb action movie that movie-goers love to see, it may not be perfect but it's damn entertaining.

CruelCoin

Confab wrote: »

Rugby isn't as partisan, tends to attract a more intelligent and civilised audience (in Ireland anyway).

Mostly a D4 or equivalent audience.

Rugby is followed by middle and upper classes, soccer and gaa by working classes (as a rough rule)

StephenHendry

the thing i like about rugby is the respect both fans give each other and to the players on either side . i.e. when someone is taking a kick there is always silence for the kicker which is great. also the respect towards officials, referees is something the gaa and soccer should look at very closely

smash

Confab wrote: »

And the GAA is just yokels playing bastardised basketball or smacking each other in the face with hurleys.

I like Gaelic football.

krudler

CruelCoin wrote: »

Mostly a D4 or equivalent audience.

Rugby is followed by middle and upper classes, soccer and gaa by working classes (as a rough rule)

not outside Dublin though, rugby is a working mans game down here

mackg

Dravokivich wrote: »

I only started watching Rugby at the tail end of the 2008 6N while I was at a mates house. Got interested in it and watched it more since. Just so happened to coincide with Munster / Leinster dominating Mangers and HEC and the Grand Slam that was obtained in 2009.

Damn me for getting an interest in something just as the teams kick into a high gear.

Initially I didn't know who was who or what the rules were and only started getting my head around most of the basics of it through out the 2011/2012 season.

I got to learn and enjoy more of it, with the more I went to experience of it. But it started off slowly. Doesn't really help creating a "Bandwagon" attitude that a few people seem to push forward.

What's the point supporting something for a long time if you don't get to be elitist about it? :pac:

More people taking an interest in a sport can only be a good thing for it.

markie29

I like soccer,Gaa and rugby ...only problem is my gf thinks i watch them too much :P

stovelid

Maybe it's just that I wasn't brought up with it but I find it tedious beyond belief to watch. Possibly the only other popular sport I dislike more in this country is Gaelic football although I do enjoy watcing hurling. Football (soccer) is the one that ticks all the boxes for me though.

vgv

I prefer soccer because I find rugby a bit too gay for my taste.Theres too much fondling of nether regions going on for me to take rugby seriously as a sport.

Xavi6

Northern hemisphere rugby bores the tits off me, mostly hoofball or played in the forwards who think gaining five metres every few minutes is an achievement.

The whole Leinster thing is biggest bandwagon going,when the current generation finish up and they go through a lull watch the interest wane.

cocoshovel

Id throw it in the yawn corner with soccer and hurling tbh

Landoflemon

In my specific instance, I didn't really start getting into rugby until I started college in UL. You always saw Jerry Flannery, Paul O'Connell, John Hayes and others just wandering around campus. Then later at the weekend you'd see these same guys competing in the Heineken Cup or 6 Nations and it was exciting knowing you'll see the same guys, who are competing on an international level on TV, in person the following week. There's something more personal that makes it more special than soccer to me, local Limerick/Munster lads making it big on an international scale. One of my friends in my class back in primary school days is now being sent to New Zealand for his first Irish cap in the Summer Tour. This is the stuff that helps promote it better than football for me.

EdenHazard

Rugby on its own merits is grand but the culture of it in Ireland is so cringey and false. That Munster/munster rivalry is so fabricated. 'Oh wow I'm really proud to be from Leinster' it means nothing.

Zebra3

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a club match or even played the sport?

UnknownSpecies

EdenHazard wrote: »

Rugby is bollox and that leinster/munster rivalry is so fabricated

I can assure you, from a player and fan's, it is NOT fabricated...

krudler

EdenHazard wrote: »

Rugby on its own merits is grand but the culture of it in Ireland is so cringey and false. That Munster/munster rivalry is so fabricated. 'Oh wow I'm really proud to be from Leinster' it means nothing.

cant you say that about any sport though? GAA especially, people from one side of a county are rivals with people one parish over, its so parochial.

Zebra3

dorgasm wrote: »

I can assure you, from a player and fan's, it is NOT fabricated...

Of course it is.

Sure Leinster fans used to hope Munster would win the Western European Cup if they were knocked out. Then they got upset when they realised that Munster fans didn't return the "favour".

UnknownSpecies

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a club match or even played the sport?

How recent do you mean? I took an interest in it when I was 13. 8 years would be considered recent to some yet I have played since then and regularly watch club games and underage interpro and international games if I can. I reckon there is more that go to local club rugby games than local club football games tbh..

foxyboxer

On the question of ubiquity of Rugby, it isn't as ubiquitous as Football, whose saturated coverage has become a bit boring.

Yes, Rugby's become a bit all-pervasive for the past few weeks but it's the 'business' end of the season and it will naturally have a lot of coverage especially with major involvement of Irish clubs all the more so. (Would this thread exist if it were the Ospreys and Edinburgh being the dominant sides??)

Growing up you could always tell what time of the year it was simply by what major sporting events were happening at the time. They all get their moment to shine each year.

February - SuperBowl, Six Nations.
March - Cheltenham.
April - US Masters.
May - Snooker World championships.
June - Wimbledon
July - British Open, British Grand Prix
August - New Football Season, Ashes cricket.
September - All Ireland finals.
etc

foxyboxer

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a club match or even played the sport?

Does tag rugby count? :pac:

Dravokivich

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a (1)club match or (2)even played the sport?

1) Nope, the local club, while transport is easy to get to their grounds, play their home matches on the other side of the area where there is no transport for me to avail of.
2) Can't afford to. Don't have the money spare to pay a club fee nor get the gear on top of that.

But sure, just stick to your elitist mindset there. I'm sick of hearing similar arguements from LoI fans who call people that follow the Premier Leauge "Barstoolers."

ha ha hello

I know few people who genuinely gave a sh'it about how Ireland performed in the rugby world cup. More people than not will be watching Ireland play in the euros in 2 weeks with a genuine desire and hope to see them do as well as possible .. and that's the euros, not even the world cup. I can see many of the Irish rubgy team are top athletes and great sportsmen, but rugby just doesn't interest me.

Tox56

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a club match or even played the sport?

Why does that matter, should they not be allowed to support the sport because of that? Should they be classed as inferior fans to those who have?

Scioch

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many people who have recently become rugby fans have ever been to a club match or even played the sport?

You dont have to go to games or play the sport to be a fan though. I've never been to a game or played myself but I've been a fan since I was a kid.

cailinardthair

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Actually does anyone know how much a top rugby player would be paid?

Its capped at 150,000 to 200,000 for the international players depending on games, lower if you play for your province only and less if you get injured during the seasons.

If you advertise for something you get a piece of the money i think but most of it is pooled back into the squad.

there isn't the same amount of money in rugby than in soccer

Scioch

EdenHazard wrote: »

Rugby on its own merits is grand but the culture of it in Ireland is so cringey and false. That Munster/munster rivalry is so fabricated. 'Oh wow I'm really proud to be from Leinster' it means nothing.

Thats not true at all. There is genuine rivalry between Munster and Leinster and it has grown out of the pride each set on fans and players have for their own club.

Being from Leinster doesnt enter into it, Leinster fans are proud to be Leinster fans and associated with the team and players and their achievements. Thats where the pride comes into it, not just because they are from Leinster.

UnknownSpecies

ha ha hello wrote: »

I know few people who genuinely gave a sh'it about how Ireland performed in the rugby world cup. More people than not will be watching Ireland play in the euros in 2 weeks with a genuine desire and hope to see them do as well as possible .. and that's the euros, not even the world cup. I can see many of the Irish rubgy team are top athletes and great sportsmen, but rugby just doesn't interest me.

It's a lot simpler to understand, therefore more popular. I tried to organise a game of tip rugby with the younger members of the family and their friends. Impossible, they couldn't grasp the basic concepts, that's why they'll lose interest. Whereas if you throw anyone a round ball and tell them to kick it into the net, it's easily understood.