The Ubiquity of Rugby

AgileMyth

Rugby is ****e. Nobody cared about it when Irish teams weren't winning stuff, just as no one cares for the League of Ireland or the GAA leagues.

Bandwaggoning is the Irish way. Support one of two English soccer teams and wave your county flag when the Championship comes around. Supporting Munster or Leinster is cool now. The amount of Munster jerseys I see in Sligo is ridiculous

The_Kew_Tour

I used to go to 5 nations games with my Dad back in 1990's. We were so **** back then but I loved the whole day out.

Now I dont have half the interest because of all these glory Hunting fans who haven't even a clue of most of rules.

I remember watching Leinster in HC last year on Tv at semi Final in Lansdowne. At one stage you could see 2 girls doing there makeup. Says it all about the type of fan that watches it now.

No atmosphere anymore either.

krudler

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I used to go to 5 nations games with my Dad back in 1990's. We were so **** back then but I loved the whole day out.

Now I dont have half the interest because of all these glory Hunting fans who haven't even a clue of most of rules.

I remember watching Leinster in HC last year on Tv at semi Final in Lansdowne. At one stage you could see 2 girls doing there makeup. Says it all about the type of fan that watches it now.

No atmosphere anymore either.

this basically, a friend of mine was at the munster v all blacks game a few years back and a group of women were all told to stfu as they were shouting during the all blacks doing the haka before the match.

Scioch

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I used to go to 5 nations games with my Dad back in 1990's. We were so **** back then but I loved the whole day out.

Now I dont have half the interest because of all these glory Hunting fans who haven't even a clue of most of rules.

I remember watching Leinster in HC last year on Tv at semi Final in Lansdowne. At one stage you could see 2 girls doing there makeup. Says it all about the type of fan that watches it now.

No atmosphere anymore either.

Says a lot about the type of fan you are too though. If your gonna lose interest because of what you think of other fans then you cant of had much interest in the game to begin with. More a fan of the day out than the sport. No different than the women doing their make up.

blue note

I have a few opinions on this topic.

Soccer: I played some soccer growing up and would have watched an awful lot of it. But I never got passionately behind a team – I never really got how people felt such a connection to them. The loyal and dedicated people might get to one game a year. Now I’ll watch a few games – I’m looking forward to the euro’s. The internationals tend to be a bit better. But the negative style in football now bores me and I usually end up giving out about games I watch. Also, all of the play-acting puts me off. And I read / listen to very little discussion on it – total nonsense discussed.

Rugby: Never played and used to watch a few of the internationals growing up. Now I watch big Ireland games (world cup / six nations) and a very odd club game. It’s a decent sport to watch on TV, but I went to 2 Leinster games and won’t be going back. Constant chatting around me. And I have never been to an event before where I had to leave so many people by me to go to the bar. I just couldn’t understand why any of these people paid to go to the game when they seemed to have no interest in it. The coverage of it is a little annoying also – they seem to try to give it equal coverage to soccer / GAA when there just isn’t interest there (in terms of people watching it live or on TV, and especially playing it). I find rugby talk particularly boring and feel that they could give some of it’s time over to GAA / soccer which people are more interested in.

Football: I played a fair bit of football growing up. Excellent game to play and I still like to watch it.

Hurling: By far my favourite sport. Have just started playing it recently (26 yr old) and it’s easily my favourite to both play and watch. The only problem is that we’re starved of coverage of it. RTE have league Sunday (1 hour highlights show) for about 2 and a half months but they don’t even show all of the main games (yet they show LOI games with barely a man and his dog at them). Then they just have live games from mid-May to mid-September. The league games get great viewships on TG4 and they’d get much better still if moved to RTE, but they don’t seem to care too much.

On Bandwagoners: I have no problem with them. I’m from Waterford and we got a bandwagon support from 98 on. Plenty have become hardcore fans and some have drifted off. Good luck to them all!

On why rugby is so popular: Marketing must be by far the main reason. For one, it isn’t that popular – we’re just led to believe it is. There’s only 3 rugby clubs in Waterford FFS! But it has grown in popularity and you’d have to say that marketing is the main reason. We haven’t even been very successful. Up to this world cup we had one win against a 6 Nations / tri Nations team in the competition. Triple crowns just mean that you didn’t win the 6 Nations because you lost to France. Really the Grand Slam is the only international success that we’ve had. So the marketing convinces us that we have a world class team and gets us interested, when in reality we’re in the middle of the pack of the 10 or so countries who play rugby (the GAA are in loads of countries as well, but you’d hardly call England, America, Australia, etc. countries who play GAA).

Pherekydes

foxyboxer wrote: »

On the question of ubiquity of Rugby, it isn't as ubiquitous as Football, whose saturated coverage has become a bit boring.

Yes, Rugby's become a bit all-pervasive for the past few weeks but it's the 'business' end of the season and it will naturally have a lot of coverage especially with major involvement of Irish clubs all the more so. (Would this thread exist if it were the Ospreys and Edinburgh being the dominant sides??)

Growing up you could always tell what time of the year it was simply by what major sporting events were happening at the time. They all get their moment to shine each year.

February - SuperBowl, Six Nations.
March - Cheltenham.
April - US Masters.
May - Snooker World championships.
June - Wimbledon
July - British Open, British Grand Prix
August - New Football Season, Ashes cricket.
September - All Ireland finals.
etc

Looks like Sky's all-pervasive influence there.

Where's the Athletics?

There are two seasons: the football season (from September to January, inclusive, culminating with the Superbowl)

The Athletics season: January to September, inclusive.

Rugby is boring. Ruck the ball, pass to the outhalf, he kicks to touch, we all have a break. Try to win the ball back so we can kick it away again. Rinse and repeat.

Soccer: One guy throws a shape and the other guy dives on the ground and rolls around for five minutes, clutching an unrelated part of his anatomy.

Oh, and please people: Soccer is NOT the beautiful game. The beautiful game was specific to the Brazilians in the 50s and onwards for the WAY they played the game.

pajunior

cailinardthair wrote: »

Its capped at 150,000 to 200,000 for the international players depending on games, lower if you play for your province only and less if you get injured during the seasons.

If you advertise for something you get a piece of the money i think but most of it is pooled back into the squad.

there isn't the same amount of money in rugby than in soccer

That's not true, middle of the road internationals get paid 200,000 plus. The top players in Ireland approach 400,000 while in France the very very top could be hitting 800,000. There were rumours that a New Zealand player was offered over 1million by the rugby version of Man City in France.

Agricola

Used to love soccer when I was a lad in short trousers. Had the posters on my wall, the jerseys in my wardrobe etc. Then as I got older the game seemed to change. It became packed with preening effeminates. Men who dont deserve to go be labelled a man. Overpaid, cheating lowlifes who don't give a shít about who they play for as long as they are getting the most amount of money they can possibly get. Just as society in general has become more materialistic and self-centred, football seems to be mirror this. I couldnt buy into it anymore, couldnt cheer on a team full of people like this.

The culture of the game I used to love makes me puke. So from now on its the honesty of rugby and the national soccer team for me. The international scene is the last bastion of what the game used to be about.

purplepanda

Gaelic football is getting so boring over the last decade or so, just hand passing the ball around the defence without anyone kicking it just like a volleyball match :mad: Ulster teams seem to be the worst for this!!

Sooner Hurling breaks away from the "GFA" the better IMO, the recent growth in the game in the USA away from the traditional Irish community has been achieved in spite of the GAA who just promote & care about football.

Hurling needs to stand on it's own merits & not be a sideshow for the GAA & football :pac:

Proper football, (not the made up GAA rubbish) Hurling & Cricket for me nowadays

The_Kew_Tour

LordSmeg wrote: »

Says a lot about the type of fan you are too though. If your gonna lose interest because of what you think of other fans then you cant of had much interest in the game to begin with. More a fan of the day out than the sport. No different than the women doing their make up.

Im sorry that I rather give a ticket to person with **** all interest then person who love to be there is what your saying ya.:rolleyes:

foxyboxer

Pherekydes wrote: »

Looks like Sky's all-pervasive influence there.

Where's the Athletics?

There are two seasons: the football season (from September to January, inclusive, culminating with the Superbowl)

The Athletics season: January to September, inclusive.

Rugby is boring. Ruck the ball, pass to the outhalf, he kicks to touch, we all have a break. Try to win the ball back so we can kick it away again. Rinse and repeat.

Soccer: One guy throws a shape and the other guy dives on the ground and rolls around for five minutes, clutching an unrelated part of his anatomy.

Oh, and please people: Soccer is NOT the beautiful game. The beautiful game was specific to the Brazilians in the 50s and onwards for the WAY they played the game.

I don't have Sky at all and fail to see it's influence??

All those events on my simple sample list can be viewed on terrestrial tv and define a particular time of the year (except live premier league). "June eh? time for Wimbledon"
The sample list is an example of events that the average joe like me will watch.

As for Athletics. I can add it to the list with it's moment in the sun, every two years with the World Championships and the Olympics, and still no SKY.

February - SuperBowl, Six Nations. (BBC, RTE)
March - Cheltenham. RTE
April - US Masters. BBC (Weekend)
May - Snooker World championships. BBC
June - Wimbledon BBC
July - British Open, British Grand Prix. BBC
August - New Football Season, Ashes cricket. (SKY) Athletics World Championships biennial.(BBC)
September - All Ireland finals. RTE

mackg

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im sorry that I rather give a ticket to person with **** all interest then person who love to be there is what your saying ya.:rolleyes:

I don't get what you mean by this response, could you clarify?

Scioch

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im sorry that I rather give a ticket to person with **** all interest then person who love to be there is what your saying ya.:rolleyes:

Not sure what ya mean but I'll clarify my point.

You lost interest because you didnt like other fans. You liked the nice day out but cant enjoy it anymore because you dont like the other people at the matches.

Your reasons for going are no different than those you dislike, you all go to have a nice day out. You said you have lost half the interest you once had which means you were only half interested in the game to begin with.

geeky

LordSmeg wrote: »

Not sure what ya mean but I'll clarify my point.

You lost interest because you didnt like other fans. You liked the nice day out but cant enjoy it anymore because you dont like the other people at the matches.

Your reasons for going are no different than those you dislike, you all go to have a nice day out. You said you have lost half the interest you once had which means you were only half interested in the game to begin with.

I'm no rugby fan, but can identify with that. If you've been part of a minority supporting something, anything, but then it becomes massively popular and a bunch of braying prawn-sandwich-brigade bandwagon-jumpers come in, it kinda wrecks the experience.

It's like how people who loved bands 'before they were big' go well off them when they become massive stars. Some of it is pretension, but having a load of plastic fans about does kinda kill what was special about something in the first place.

cailinardthair

pajunior wrote: »

That's not true, middle of the road internationals get paid 200,000 plus. The top players in Ireland approach 400,000 while in France the very very top could be hitting 800,000. There were rumours that a New Zealand player was offered over 1million by the rugby version of Man City in France.

Don't know about France or England because there played by the club not there FFR and England Rugby Union.

The IRFU pays the players. They can't afford 400,000. Now some players could be getting the extra 200,000 from advertisements. Say the likes of Brian O' Driscoll and Paul O' Connell because they have O2 and powerade etc.
I did say that they could more from advertisements. I know this because I have family members who work in Connacht branch and I asked just to be sure.

And that could be Toulouse, Clermount or Toulan paying the million. They pay alot more than that sometimes. Top 14 is huge in France, the clubs rule not the international team.

carvaggio

Pherekydes wrote: »

Oh, and please people: Soccer is NOT the beautiful game. The beautiful game was specific to the Brazilians in the 50s and onwards for the WAY they played the game.

Nope. It was a phrase made popular by an English commentator a long time ago and was certainly not specific to Brazil (though it is associated due to the Brazilian team of that time). It is commonly used to describe football, regardless of whether you agree or not.

marwelie

I'm the only one in my family who doesn't like Rugby Union whereas I'm the only ome in my family who likes Rugby League. I don't like how structured RU is, I think the officials interfere too much and I certainly am not enamoured with the fanbase that it has, it has public schoolboy written all over it and a I'm-so-much-better-than-you attitude. RL has a much more working class attitude, is much more free-flowing as a game IMO. I will say that I have attended two Rugby Union matches in my life and have enjoyed them both but if it was a case of watching RU or football, football wins everytime. The one thing that really impressed me about rugby players over their football counterparts is their team spirit, rugby players give the impression they would die for their team and their team-mates whereas most elite footballers couldn't be arsed as long as they get paid at the end of the week.

Speaking as a Shamrock Rovers Season Ticket holder, anyone who says that as a football supporter in this country you have no alternative but to follow a foreign side is talking through their hat (spoken as a life long Man Utd fan btw). Leinster based fans have at least 5 LOI sides they could follow (if not more, my geography is crap) and Munster based fans arent too badly looked after either. When it all boils down to it though the reason Rugby and GAA appears to be much more popular in this country than football is the marketing. If you build it they will come.

People seem to think that because LOI isn't in the papers every day and its not on the telly or radio every week that its no good. Facilities may not be the best in most cases but there is no lack of talent. As far as I know at least six of the current Euro squad started in the LOI. The two greatest Irish international footballers of all time, Paul Mc Grath and Roy Keane (IMO), started in the LOI. The majority of LOI players in this country are playing for the love of the sport not the money and as a result the fans can relate to them more. If it hadn't been for Jack Charlton and his successors exploiting the granny rule there'd be a few LOI players knocking around the squad too.

I have no emotional interest in the National Side and I haven't been to an International in years but I hope they do well in the Euros. I will certainly be watching but I won't be at the home coming parade when they come home in 3 weeks having been beaten by Croatia, Spain and Italy. Thousands of people who claim they have an interest in football, the majority of whom haven't and will never grace the domestic game with their presence, will.

The_Kew_Tour

LordSmeg wrote: »

Not sure what ya mean but I'll clarify my point.

You lost interest because you didnt like other fans. You liked the nice day out but cant enjoy it anymore because you dont like the other people at the matches.

Your reasons for going are no different than those you dislike, you all go to have a nice day out. You said you have lost half the interest you once had which means you were only half interested in the game to begin with.

day out? If I wanted day out I go to park or beach.

I was avid Rugby supporter.

You seem happy that people who love the game cant get tickets now over people who just want to be seen at these games.

Still support the AIL I even played AIL myself for while.

you could not be more wrong about me if you tried again.

marwelie

carvaggio wrote: »

Nope. It was a phrase made popular by an English commentator a long time ago and was certainly not specific to Brazil (though it is associated due to the Brazilian team of that time). It is commonly used to describe football, regardless of whether you agree or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beautiful_Game

foxyboxer

Pherekydes wrote: »

Oh, and please people: Soccer is NOT the beautiful game. The beautiful game was specific to the Brazilians in the 50s and onwards for the WAY they played the game.

Have you seen Barcalona play for the past few seasons?
When they're on song, it's great to watch them play.

carvaggio

marwelie wrote: »

I thought it was attributed to Pele

Definitely wasn't him who coined it, but I think Pele does use the phrase a lot and it probably was used a lot to describe any match he was involved in.

Scioch

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

day out? If I wanted day out I go to park or beach.

I was avid Rugby supporter.

You seem happy that people who love the game cant get tickets now over people who just want to be seen at these games.

Still support the AIL I even played AIL myself for while.

you could not be more wrong about me if you tried again.

Day out were your words not mine. I'm happy the clubs and the sport is doing better than ever here and that they are converting success to support/support to success and the sport is growing as a result. I dont care who's at the games as I dont spend my time looking at the crowd I look at the game itself.

I have done nothing but re-iterate points you made so if I'm wrong about you your wrong about yourself.

cailinardthair

Personally I prefer rugby, always have due to the fact its the sport my family are in to it and its always on.
I can understand why people think that rugby has just exploded in the last few years but its down to the fact Ireland and the province sides doing well. And rte and tg4 have the rabodirect on tv and sky have a great Heineken cup package showing all the matches. But it has been getting popular ever since professionalism has come in the 1990's.

Honestly cant watch premiership soccer, personally find it boring most weekends,and i know it has been said but i can only take so much of the falling over holding your knee as tho its falling off, but i do like watching world cup, euros and the champion league because the teams have only a few games to make a difference. And you see a lot of quality players.

Honestly there are some sports people are going to like, some you don't, some your going to like over time. And i think the popularity fades and comes back during the year. At the moment its going to be the GAA, Euros, formala 1, tour de france, and the Olympics. Its that time of year.

Zebra3

Dravokivich wrote: »

But sure, just stick to your elitist mindset there. I'm sick of hearing similar arguements from LoI fans who call people that follow the Premier Leauge "Barstoolers."

If the cap fits....

Tox56 wrote: »

Why does that matter, should they not be allowed to support the sport because of that? Should they be classed as inferior fans to those who have?

Of course someone who hasn't played a sport is not going to understand it as much as someone who has.

Simple logic.

MrPudding

Old I know, but appropriate for the thread that's in it...

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4008/footballde.th.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4034/rugbyde.th.jpg

MrP

Jonah42

Rugby is really boring but that's just my opinion. I still have loads of respect for the game and its players.

Naomi00

pajunior wrote: »

That's not true, middle of the road internationals get paid 200,000 plus. The top players in Ireland approach 400,000 while in France the very very top could be hitting 800,000. There were rumours that a New Zealand player was offered over 1million by the rugby version of Man City in France.

Obviously don't have a clue.

The original post was right. It's only French clubs in Europe who pay a lot, and that's not seen as a good thing by everyone else. Most Irish players would choose to stay in Ireland and play for their own country over a bigger salary in France or somewhere else.

cailinardthair

bullvine wrote: »

I dont think Ireland beating Australia is quite the same as Senegal V France 2002 or Cameroon V Argentina 1990, I mean Ireland still has some of the best players on the planet and only recently won the Grand Slam.

The reason I used the Ireland example as an upset was it had never happened before in the world cup for Ireland and Ireland had never won a game in the south to either New Zealand, South Africa or Australia up to that point even tho we have a great team in recent years. The pundits had Ireland to lose against Australia, we come second in the group and face South Africa in the knock outs. That didn't happen. We reshuffled the knock outs by doing this. It was the 1st time we came top of the group. (pity we lost to Wales)

I know its not as big as some of the other examples I gave but it is an example. I remember the Sengal v France match and I can remember everyone talking about France losing there first match. It made things exciting from the get go.
I think underdogs winning matches make it exciting.

MrMatisse

To those who persist in saying that a bunch of fat men running into each other is a more skillful more interesting sport than football, I give you:

Case closed.

Anyone supporting a sport because of its social cachet cannot disguise the fact that a 6'6 17 stone hippo running in straight line cannot match the skill level shown above.

Mal-Adjusted

^^^ to be fair, most of those goals were good and one was great, but nothing spectacular

Dravokivich

Zebra3 wrote: »

If the cap fits....

Im not too sure what you are trying to get across. I've said there is an unreasonable attitude in both Irish rugby and Irish soccer supporters towards other people who wish to follow the same sports, but not to the same "level" according to them.

MrMatisse wrote: »

To those who persist in saying that a bunch of fat men running into each other is a more skillful more interesting sport than football, I give you:

Case closed.

Anyone supporting a sport because of its social cachet cannot disguise the fact that a 6'6 17 stone hippo running in straight line cannot match the skill level shown above.

ehm, 2 different skillsets. None of those guys would be too usefull as props and doubt they'd make a highlight reel for a rugby match.

krudler

MrMatisse wrote: »

To those who persist in saying that a bunch of fat men running into each other is a more skillful more interesting sport than football, I give you:


Case closed.

Anyone supporting a sport because of its social cachet cannot disguise the fact that a 6'6 17 stone hippo running in straight line cannot match the skill level shown above.

but thats like ice skating is a better sport than horse racing as it requires more skill, its completely different. a football player wouldnt be able to transfer those skills, or a lot of them at least, to playing say, NFL.

dfx-

AgileMyth wrote: »

Rugby is ****e. Nobody cared about it when Irish teams weren't winning stuff, just as no one cares for the League of Ireland or the GAA leagues.

Bandwaggoning is the Irish way. Support one of two English soccer teams and wave your county flag when the Championship comes around. Supporting Munster or Leinster is cool now. The amount of Munster jerseys I see in Sligo is ridiculous

I wonder what the pub attendances were for the Leicester v Wasps Heineken Cup final or Toulouse v Biarritz final or the Toulouse v Stade Francais final was. They were only four years ago, well into the bandwagon.

Having played rugby at school level until the late 90s and in the physical, 'manly' front and second rows, rugby is quite a dull sport. The Leinster/Munster thing is painful. Union is slow and League is pointless. The Super 15 is terrific entertainment, but internationally it is all too predictable.

If you're better than a team in Union, you win. South Africa bottle it away from home, New Zealand and Australia compete to be the top team, Argentina are nowhere near them. France always beat Ireland in Paris and usually in Dublin. There's no luck factor that keeps things entertaining. There's no Ireland v Romania in 1990 or v Italy in 1994. There's not even Ireland v England in Bangalore or Ireland v Pakistan in 2007 in cricket. Cricket is a much more challenging and entertaining game than rugby.

Football is the beautiful game. And at least none of them are GAA. :pac:

Capt'n Midnight

Pal wrote: »

"A Nation" status countries qualify automatically.
There are ten.

A nation once again,
A nation once again,
...

DEFTLEFTHAND

Naomi00 wrote: »

Obviously don't have a clue.

The original post was right. It's only French clubs in Europe who pay a lot, and that's not seen as a good thing by everyone else. Most Irish players would choose to stay in Ireland and play for their own country over a bigger salary in France or somewhere else.

They also stay in Ireland to claim a massive tax back on retirement.

Nermal

Soccer:
- Rampant diving & simulation, so pathetically unmasculine as to be unwatchable
- Refusal to use technology to arbitrate disputes leading to pointless argument
- Scoring too infrequent, leading to far too many draws and boring defensiveness

Rugby:
- So many penalties occur at every ruck, tight games decided entirely by referee and some rules ignored entirely (union)
- Players now too fast, fit & mobile so line breaks becoming infrequent (both)
- What the hell is going on with the scrum (union)
- Most sets of play entirely predictable, no variety until attackers in final third of pitch (league)

Plenty of reasons to dislike both. But in EVERY soccer match, diving is present. That's enough reason not to watch any.

BarackPyjama

Soccer in Ireland:

• Embarrassing domestic league
• Rubbish international team
• Ireland ranked 33rd in the world

Rugby in Ireland:

• Ulster European winners once and finalists this season
• Munster and Leinster two of the truly great teams in Europe
• Ireland ranked 8th in the world - down from 4th after a few poor seasons

It's no real surprise rugby is becoming increasingly popular. We're performing at a much higher level than we are at football; both domestically and internationally. The number of European and domestic (ours being Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy) titles that we've amassed over the last 12 years is amazing for a country our size. Anyone that's been going to Leinster matches for the last few years will tell you how incredible it's been to be there.


Hopefully the national team can step up again soon and realise their potential.

DEFTLEFTHAND

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland:

• Embarrassing domestic league
• Rubbish international team
• Ireland ranked 33rd in the world

Rugby in Ireland:

• Ulster European winners once and finalists this season
• Munster and Leinster two of the truly great teams in Europe
• Ireland ranked 8th in the world - down from 4th after a few poor seasons

It's no real surprise rugby is becoming increasingly popular. We're performing at a much higher level than we are at football; both domestically and internationally. The number of European and domestic (ours being Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy) titles that we've amassed over the last 12 years is amazing for a country our size. Anyone that's been going to Leinster matches for the last few years will tell you how incredible it's been to be there.


Hopefully the national team can step up again soon and realise their potential.

We're actually ranked 18th in the world which is not too shabby at all for a nation our size. Also look at our international record over the last couple of years, its been exceptional so I fail to see how that makes us 'rubbish'.

The LOI is not as bad as people think either, Rovers made the group stages of the Europa league this season for instance.

We're always going to feature prominently in the rugby world rankings due to the shortage of nations who play to a high standard. In international terms however we're still very much a second tier team.

Tox56

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland:

• Embarrassing domestic league
• Rubbish international team
• Ireland ranked 33rd in the world

Rugby in Ireland:

• Ulster European winners once and finalists this season
• Munster and Leinster two of the truly great teams in Europe
• Ireland ranked 8th in the world - down from 4th after a few poor seasons

It's no real surprise rugby is becoming increasingly popular. We're performing at a much higher level than we are at football; both domestically and internationally. The number of European and domestic (ours being Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy) titles that we've amassed over the last 12 years is amazing for a country our size. Anyone that's been going to Leinster matches for the last few years will tell you how incredible it's been to be there.


Hopefully the national team can step up again soon and realise their potential.

We're actually ranked 18th in the world which is not too shabby at all for a nation our size. Also look at our international record over the last couple of years, its been exceptional so I fail to see how that makes us 'rubbish'.

The LOI is not as bad as people think either, Rovers made the group stages of the Europa league this season for instance.

We're always going to feature prominently in the rugby world rankings due to the shortage of nations who play to a high standard. In international terms however we're still very much a second tier team.

We're a second tier team in rugby??

carvaggio

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland:

• Embarrassing domestic league
• Rubbish international team
• Ireland ranked 33rd in the world

Our domestic league is never going to produce teams to compete at highest in football level like Leinster and Munster can. Football is too big in larger nations for Ireland to come close to compete, unfortunately some people think anything other than the champions league ever year means a club is 'embarrassing', which isn't true.

Our national team is certainly not rubbish, having qualified for EURO 2012, ranked 18th in the world and are managed by a brilliant football man. Again it is outrageous to compare how 'good' we are at rugby with football. Rugby is far less competitive internationally and we take it a lot more seriously than most.

Why should it matter how good Ireland are to enjoy a sport?

BarackPyjama

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We're actually ranked 18th in the world which is not too shabby at all for a nation our size.

I just checked the UEFA rankings and we're ranked 33rd. Unless I'm missing something?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Also look at our international record over the last couple of years, its been exceptional so I fail to see how that makes us 'rubbish'.

It's been exceptional? Has it not been reasonably okay, despite some very impressive performances in the WC qualifiers of yesteryear? I digress - rubbish is probably a bit harsh but, even by European standards, we're not particularly good, surely? We're arguably the whipping boys for next month, no? I hope I'm wrong mind.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The LOI is not as bad as people think either, Rovers made the group stages of the Europa league this season for instance.

Compare that to how Irish rugby teams are performing in Europe though? No comparison whatsoever.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We're always going to feature prominently in the rugby world rankings due to the shortage of nations who play to a high standard. In international terms however we're still very much a second tier team.

Agreed - the gulf between top tier rugby nations and football nations is immense. Having said that, we're a top tier rugby nations (there or thereabouts). Both sports are extremely competitive at the highest level. There's no doubting that.

Mal-Adjusted

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

In international terms however we're still very much a second tier team.

woah, want to explain that one?

Pherekydes

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland:

• Ireland ranked 33rd in the world

Rugby in Ireland:

• Ireland ranked 8th in the world - down from 4th after a few poor seasons

Ireland are ranked 18th of 208 nations in soccer (top 8.67%)
Ireland are ranked 8th of 96 nations in rugby (top 8.33%)
Very similar.


That kind of rubbishes your "rubbish international team" comment.

Another way of looking at it is this: about 8 countries play rugby really well, and Ireland is the worst of these.

Meanwhile, Ireland is top ranked in Hurling, Camogie, Gaelic Football... :pac:

pajunior

cailinardthair wrote: »

Don't know about France or England because there played by the club not there FFR and England Rugby Union.

The IRFU pays the players. They can't afford 400,000. Now some players could be getting the extra 200,000 from advertisements. Say the likes of Brian O' Driscoll and Paul O' Connell because they have O2 and powerade etc.
I did say that they could more from advertisements. I know this because I have family members who work in Connacht branch and I asked just to be sure.

And that could be Toulouse, Clermount or Toulan paying the million. They pay alot more than that sometimes. Top 14 is huge in France, the clubs rule not the international team.

The figures I quoted are estimates because no-one but the IRFU or players know, but Luke Fitzgerald's contract negotiations were leaked and he was being asked to drop from 280,000 to 200,000. If he is earning that then O'Driscoll is definitely on 400,000

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tox56 wrote: »

We're a second tier team in rugby??

Yes in my opinion we don't operate on the same level as the big 3 southern hemisphere teams. We've made leaps and bounds in recent years but our international record particular when it matters at world cups suggests we've yet to break through to the top table.

Pherekydes

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I just checked the UEFA rankings and we're ranked 33rd. Unless I'm missing something?

Yes, you are. FIFA are the world governing body, and Ireland ranks 18th in the world.

Mal-Adjusted

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Yes in my opinion we don't operate on the same level as the big 3 southern hemisphere teams. We've made leaps and bounds in recent years but our international record particular when it matters at world cups suggests we've yet to break through to the top table.

so as long as there's any team ranked above us, we're second tier? In soccer, the Netherlands are 4th, does that make them 2nd tier? England are 7th, are they 2nd tier?

Big Nasty

Pherekydes wrote: »

Ireland are ranked 18th of 208 nations in soccer (top 8.67%)
Ireland are ranked 8th of 96 nations in rugby (top 8.33%)
Very similar.


That kind of rubbishes your "rubbish international team" comment.

Another way of looking at it is this: about 8 countries play rugby really well, and Ireland is the worst of these.

Meanwhile, Ireland is top ranked in Hurling, Camogie, Gaelic Football... :pac:

I'm on the rugby side but I lol'd at this post!

To be fair lads, this whole thread is pointless - some prefer rugby, some soccer. Just the way it is and this debate really makes no odds.

Tox56

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

We're a second tier team in rugby??

Yes in my opinion we don't operate on the same level as the big 3 southern hemisphere teams. We've made leaps and bounds in recent years but our international record particular when it matters at world cups suggests we've yet to break through to the top table.

We might never be better than the SH teams but that doesn't mean we are 'second tier', we can hold our own against anyone, our record against SA is particularly impressive

mikemac1

carvaggio wrote: »

Football is too big in larger nations for Ireland to come close to compete, unfortunately some people think anything other than the champions league ever year means a club is 'embarrassing', which isn't true.

Rosenburg of Norway got in the CL for years and years in a row

Our population is much the same as theirs