The Ubiquity of Rugby

RoundBox11

Paparazzo wrote: »

I can see you played at a high level. Even Harry Rednapps tactics are more advanced than that.
And you were "forced" to play for school and club for 14 years? Were you in a nazi concentration camp and had to play for your lives? Was silvester stallone your keeper?

We were forced to play in school in terms of that was the only sport we played in PE etc and was the sport we were expected to represent the school in. For example there were lads in my school who played club rugby (and in some cases are now playing in the Leinster acadamy/Irish U20s) but our school wouldnt let us play rugby.

When i say forced on kids i mean thats the only sport thats made available to them. I obviously don't mean a gun was held to their head forcing them to play.

I personally played club basketball at the highest level in East Leinsterduring my school years. However I wasn't able to play in school because the school wanted all it's emphasis on football (soccer) and GAA and wouldnt field a basketball team or rugby team.

In fact to make matters worse, those of us who played other sports like rugby/basketball/golf etc often had the piss ripped out of them by the teachers and students because they didnt conform to the football norm.

Paparazzo

twinytwo wrote: »

how many big girls blouses do you see in the second video??

how much roling around??

how many "men" crying for their mother??

At the end of the day soccer has been destroyed by a bunch over paid pussies who have egos bigger than most countries.

Again, someone who obviously doesn't understand the game. The reason diving and rolling around happens in soccer is to gain a free kick/peno or get someone sent off. It's not because they're "pussies". It's just cheating, same thing that happens in every rugby match.
Agreed that it's a blighe on the game. The biggest blight on the game of rugby imho is overcomplecated rules. It's way to easy for the ref to decide the outcome of a game.

RoundBox11

bullvine wrote: »

Football is so much more skillful than Rugby, from the age of 2, Diego Maradona spent every single minute of his day that was available to him, kicking a football, both on his own and with friends and team mates. Its this dedication that made him the greatest in the world.

Did Brian O'Driscoll do the same with a rugby ball??

That can be said of all sports.

Pete Maravich was on of the greatest NBA basketball players to ever play the game. At age 13 he was practicing 8 hours a day 5 days a week. from a very young age he used to dribble a basketball out the window of a moving car with his dad, was kicked out of cinemas for dribbling the basketball during movies. As a kid he won a $5 bet by spinning a ball on his finger for an hour non stop.


These stories happen in all sports.

RoundBox11

Paparazzo wrote: »

Again, someone who obviously doesn't understand the game. The reason diving and rolling around happens in soccer is to gain a free kick/peno or get someone sent off. It's not because they're "pussies". It's just cheating, same thing that happens in every rugby match.
Agreed that it's a blighe on the game. The biggest blight on the game of rugby imho is overcomplecated rules. It's way to easy for the ref to decide the outcome of a game.

How?

Balmed Out

eye gouging and other scrum antics id guess

ceegee

The main reasons for rugby being the "in" sport are
1 - Yearly international tournament, played at weekends. Perfect excuse for casual fans to go drinking in their local or on a trip to cardiff etc.

2 - At its most basic, rugby is a pretty easy game to follow and understand, bar the breakdown and scrums. Makes it easy for non-fans to follow.

3 - Irish teams will generally be competing for glory at provincial level, and rarely get hockeyed at test level. Attracts bandwagoners.

4 - BOD, Kearney, Trimble, D'arcy etc. are easier on the eye than our soccer players


Thats not to say there arent genuine rugby fans out there but these factors imo are why there has been a groundswell in rugby support in the past decade. Come next month soccer will be back on top when all the bandwagoners dust off their plastic hammers

Tox56

Balmed Out wrote: »

eye gouging and other scrum antics id guess

In a league, that happens maybe once a season.

Balmed Out

Tox56 wrote: »

In a league, that happens maybe once a season.

stamping, hacking etc during scrums, barging etc
Theres plenty of cheating in every sport unfortunately

fissureseal

The thing that really does my head in about rugby is the smugness of nearly all the commentators and alot of fans of the game esp this idea that the " right type" of people go to the game , that somehow they're more civilised that the soccer or gaa crowd .I see it today again on the Irish times with gerry thornleys rugby column on the time of year signalling end of the rugby season he says " there's a whiff of summer , not to mention things like cricket , tennis and athletics , in the air " I suppose the " right type" ie rugby fan follow these sports in the summer , similarly incredibly elitist sports in Ireland , does Gerry even realise that for the majority of people the summer means the gaa season and that there's a major soccer tournament starting in a few days in which we ve qualified , but I suppose he's only catering to his rugby audiences tastes , they wouldn't lower themselves to these sports even tho they're the most popular summer sports of the country . I played rugby till I was 18 , am old enough to remember the bad days of the Irish team in the 80 s and early 90s but find the incredibly smug and patronising attitude to other sports that alot of the newly styled rugby experts too much to stomach

UnknownSpecies

Balmed Out wrote: »

stamping, hacking etc during scrums, barging etc
Theres plenty of cheating in every sport unfortunately

How often do these impact the outcome of a game? In football, the likes of Ashley Young will throw themselves on the ground to get a penalty, this directly affects the result. I'm a huge football fan and it makes me sick when I see the carry on of him and his ilk. Singling Young out as an example, he is so consistent that he has won more penalties than any other Premiership player going back a couple of seasons. In rugby, you occasionally get some cheating but it doesn't have as big an impact on the result.

And btw, the violent offences you've mentioned rarely happen. Cheating in rugby would be down to things like collapsing or boring in during a scrum or illegally slowing down opposition ball in a ruck.

Scioch

Balmed Out wrote: »

stamping, hacking etc during scrums, barging etc
Theres plenty of cheating in every sport unfortunately

Thats not cheating its foul play your talking about, how many other games has woven deceiving the ref into the method of play by acting injured ?

There is a certain level of cheating in every game as you say but soccer has turned it into an art form. I have nothing against players or fans but I cant watch it without cringing and thinking its more like a bad soap opera than a sport every time someone goes down rolling around acting like they have just being shot. There is a fantastic level of skill in the game but the fact that diving had become part of that skill set just make it tough for me to watch it.

Brain Stroking

I like all sports but the rugby thing is a bit of a fad since the provinces started doing well and were able to attract excellent foreign imports. The IRFU deserve credit for making a success out of the professional game.

However there isnt a comparison to football. Football is a worldwide game played from the beaches of rio to the streets of europe to the slums of africa. To be the best in football you literally have to be the best in the world. The same cannot be said for rugby where the playing base is limited.

No comparison in my eyes.

UnknownSpecies

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I like all sports but the rugby thing is a bit of a fad since the provinces started doing well and were able to attract excellent foreign imports. The IRFU deserve credit for making a success out of the professional game.

However there isnt a comparison to football. Football is a worldwide game played from the beaches of rio to the streets of europe to the slums of africa. To be the best in football you literally have to be the best in the world. The same cannot be said for rugby where the playing base is limited.

No comparison in my eyes.

By that logic, you must think the same of the GAA. That doesn't majorly extend out of Ireland.

ceegee

LordSmeg wrote: »

Balmed Out wrote: »

stamping, hacking etc during scrums, barging etc
Theres plenty of cheating in every sport unfortunately

Thats not cheating its foul play your talking about, how many other games has woven deceiving the ref into the method of play by acting injured ?

There is a certain level of cheating in every game as you say but soccer has turned it into an art form. I have nothing against players or fans but I cant watch it without cringing and thinking its more like a bad soap opera than a sport every time someone goes down rolling around acting like they have just being shot. There is a fantastic level of skill in the game but the fact that diving had become part of that skill set just make it tough for me to watch it.

While cheating in rugby by feigning injury is rarer than soccer it tends to be much more planned when it does occur ie front rows going off "injured" to ensure uncontested scrums. Not to mention Bloodgate, which pretty much blitzes any of Drogba et al's antics

carvaggio

flyswatter wrote: »

Football doesn't have the monopoly on skilful small players, ever heard of Shane Williams or Jason Robinson?

Yes they were small but they were considered to be quite fast. My point was that in football you can be brilliant without being particular big/fast/strong, ie. you can almost purely rely on your skill with the ball and footballing intelligence in pretty much every position (Goalkeeper at high levels tends to be the only real exception).

In rugby this tends to only exist to an extent for kickers/scrum halfs though being small is always going to be a bit of a weakness as you have to get involved in tackles against bigger players as it is part of the game.

Anyway this isn't me trying to say why football is better, just an element of why I enjoy playing it and probably why it is so popular to play around the world.

carvaggio

RoundBox11 wrote: »

We were forced to play in school in terms of that was the only sport we played in PE etc and was the sport we were expected to represent the school in. For example there were lads in my school who played club rugby (and in some cases are now playing in the Leinster acadamy/Irish U20s) but our school wouldnt let us play rugby.

When i say forced on kids i mean thats the only sport thats made available to them. I obviously don't mean a gun was held to their head forcing them to play.

I personally played club basketball at the highest level in East Leinsterduring my school years. However I wasn't able to play in school because the school wanted all it's emphasis on football (soccer) and GAA and wouldnt field a basketball team or rugby team.

In fact to make matters worse, those of us who played other sports like rugby/basketball/golf etc often had the piss ripped out of them by the teachers and students because they didnt conform to the football norm.

This really goes both ways in fairness. I went to a school in the country which wouldn't open a football team despite numerous petitions. we had rugby, gaelic football, hurling, camogie, basketball (ridiculous amounts of basketball) and athletics. But no space for the sport that everyone went outside to play for lunch.

castletownman

I can't believe after 25 pages I having weighed in with my two cents yet!

For me, the hype the Irish rugby team gets in the country is ridiculous. Think about it: they play the same five teams competitively each year, two of which (Scotland and Italy) they generally beat minus the odd upset, one (Wales) where it is usually 50-50, another, England, where it is typically the home team that prevails and one where they rarely ever win (France).
They then go on glorified friendly tours to the southern hemisphere maybe every second year, and always get beat. And they flatter to decieve at the rugby World Cup, a tournament they don't even have to qualify for. (Yeah they beat Australia in it this year, but they still only got to the quarter finals, which they were always expected to get to. Jibbed it against Wales).
Yet they are somehow regarded as the heroes of Irish sport.

The Irish soccer team however punch above their weight (well since the days of Big Jack) in probably the most competitive international sport on the planet. They don't get the credit they deserve, especially considering it is losing out on a local level due to the rising popularity of rugby, and the continued dominance of GAA.


I always rank GAA as the number one sport in the country, but I won't enter them into the debate as it is an amateur organisation.

On a final note, think of all the iconic sporting moments down through the years in Irish sport. It is generally dominated by Michael O'Hehir commentary on classic GAA moments, or the adventures of Euro 88, Italia 90 etc.

bullvine

In my opinion football is more popular because you can play it on your own or with just 2 people, you will rarely see a kid on the street on his own with a rugby ball but you'll see lots with a football attached to his foot. You might see 2 kids playing a match together between gates or squares on the road. Very little you can do with a Rugby ball that doesnt get boring after 10 mins on you own but with a football you can spend hours doing kick-ups or the like.

Monty Burnz

fissureseal wrote: »

The thing that really does my head in about rugby is the smugness of nearly all the commentators and alot of fans of the game esp this idea that the " right type" of people go to the game , that somehow they're more civilised that the soccer or gaa crowd .

I don't think it's a negative point that there's (almost?) never trouble with rugby fans or at games, or that crowds of different fans can be mixed within a stadium.

What is a negative point is the perception amongst some people within the game and outside it that it's a D4 thing - hopefully it's a perception on the wane these days as the game becomes more inclusive and reaches out beyond the traditional enclaves of support.

Monty Burnz

carvaggio wrote: »

Yes they were small but they were considered to be quite fast. My point was that in football you can be brilliant without being particular big/fast/strong, ie. you can almost purely rely on your skill with the ball and footballing intelligence in pretty much every position (Goalkeeper at high levels tends to be the only real exception).

Brian O'Driscoll is no longer fast, he was never big. He certainly is strong - but that's due to the hours spent in the gym. A basic level of strength is a requirement in rugby just as a basic level of fitness is needed in soccer, and you have to train to achieve that in both sports.

Scioch

ceegee wrote: »

While cheating in rugby by feigning injury is rarer than soccer it tends to be much more planned when it does occur ie front rows going off "injured" to ensure uncontested scrums. Not to mention Bloodgate, which pretty much blitzes any of Drogba et al's antics

Bloodgate was one incident from 3 years ago which resulted in all involved receiving bans. And front rows feigning injury to get uncontested scrums is so rare its practically non existent and if found to be true would also be dealt with severely, I cant even think of any examples off the top of my head. Every single soccer game without fail though involves diving, some more obvious than others but at this point even when fouled players are expected to put on a little display to try and make it look worse than it is. Its utterly pathetic.

There is no comparison between what you have mentioned and the extent and role diving plays in the game of soccer.

Dravokivich

bullvine wrote: »

In my opinion football is more popular because you can play it on your own or with just 2 people, you will rarely see a kid on the street on his own with a rugby ball but you'll see lots with a football attached to his foot. You might see 2 kids playing a match together between gates or squares on the road. Very little you can do with a Rugby ball that doesnt get boring after 10 mins on you own but with a football you can spend hours doing kick-ups or the like.

Leo Cullen used to play against himself and 28 other imaginary players as a kid.

Monty Burnz

ceegee wrote: »

While cheating in rugby by feigning injury is rarer than soccer it tends to be much more planned when it does occur ie front rows going off "injured" to ensure uncontested scrums. Not to mention Bloodgate, which pretty much blitzes any of Drogba et al's antics

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/sports/soccer/30iht-soccer30.html

Also Monday, Italian national team players were woken at dawn by the arrival of police investigators at their training base near Florence. The police were seeking evidence of fresh match-fixing allegations — and one national team defender, Domenico Criscito, was omitted from the list of players who will travel to the tournament next week.

Criscito pleads his innocence, but the national coach, Cesare Prandelli, had no choice other than to leave him out of the tournament, which starts June 8. “He would have experienced a pressure that no human being can deal with,” Cesare explained. “He could have been called up by the prosecutors at any time, before a match.”

How did it get to this? An event never before staged outside of Western Europe is to be shared between two hosts, each of them stretched to the limit to build infrastructure and play host to a monthlong tournament in places where the politics are still evolving after the breakup of the Soviet bloc.

Italy appears back where it was in 2006 when a previous corruption scandal broke on the eve of the World Cup in Germany — a World Cup that drew out the strength of the Azzurri, the national team, to win the tournament.

“This time is worse than 2006,” Roma midfielder Daniele De Rossi said at the training base. “It’s more shocking, with the police coming to Coverciano and people I know being arrested. We’re going to the Euros with a stain on us.”

Brain Stroking

dorgasm wrote: »

By that logic, you must think the same of the GAA. That doesn't majorly extend out of Ireland.

Of course i do

Gaa doesnt even extend out of ireland in a minor way. Ex-pats play Gaa abroad not foreigners

Reoil

The only thing I like about rugby is the fact that we have an all-Ireland team.

Monty Burnz

Reoil wrote: »

The only thing I like about rugby is the fact that we have an all-Ireland team.

Watch a few games with an open mind - you might find you enjoy it.

A lot of the football fans here talking about rugby sound the way Yanks do when they talk about 'saccar'.

bullvine

Serious Q. Whats the options for a teenage kid playing Rugby in Dublin if you dont want to send him to a fee paying school like Blackrock College or similar. Are you restricted with the level they can achieve, with Football I can just send him to St Francis, Home Farm etc.. they are tied to a school!

opinion guy

markesmith wrote: »

I know a lot of people with scant interest in GAA, and derisive attitudes towards 'soccer', but they wet themselves when the rugby is on.

A lot of women seem to be mad into it especially, despite having zero interest in any other sport.

The players themselves are lauded as gentlemen and warriors, and the epitome of manliness.

tl;dr version: Am I the only person that finds it puzzling that rugby is so popular?

OP clearly lives in Dublin 4

Monty Burnz

bullvine wrote: »

Serious Q. Whats the options for a teenage kid playing Rugby in Dublin if you dont want to send him to a fee paying school like Blackrock College or similar. Are you restricted with the level they can achieve, with Football I can just send him to St Francis, Home Farm etc.. they are tied to a school!

They can just join a club.

kumate_champ07

smash wrote: »

It's a proper full contact sport. Soccer is shíte.

almost too much contact, if you know what I mean..

Paparazzo

RoundBox11 wrote: »

How?

Look at the peno count or yellow cards in a game. That's cheating trying to gain an advantage for your team. Wales quick lineout ball a few years ago against us. Hands in the ruck, offsides, blocking players, high tackles, punches, stamps etc etc. All fouls, most of them know they're doing it, but for some reason rugby players are gentlemen who play with honour.

bullvine

Monty Burnz wrote: »

They can just join a club.

I thought the schools rugby was a big deal though!

ceegee

LordSmeg wrote: »

ceegee wrote: »

While cheating in rugby by feigning injury is rarer than soccer it tends to be much more planned when it does occur ie front rows going off "injured" to ensure uncontested scrums. Not to mention Bloodgate, which pretty much blitzes any of Drogba et al's antics

Bloodgate was one incident from 3 years ago which resulted in all involved receiving bans. And front rows feigning injury to get uncontested scrums is so rare its practically non existent and if found to be true would also be dealt with severely, I cant even think of any examples off the top of my head. Every single soccer game without fail though involves diving, some more obvious than others but at this point even when fouled players are expected to put on a little display to try and make it look worse than it is. Its utterly pathetic.

There is no comparison between what you have mentioned and the extent and role diving plays in the game of soccer.

My point was that cheating goes on in every sport, people bang on about diving because its easy to spot on tv and looks cowardly. Rugby players dont do it because it would be of no benefit, play doesnt stop for injuries and a player going to ground isnt going to win a free.

Cheating by frontrows at scrums is endemic in the game, boring in etc. Just like diving its done to trick the ref into punishing the opposition. Why this type of cheating is seen as a sign of a clever prop while diving is a sign of cowardice i dont get

Monty Burnz

bullvine wrote: »

I thought the schools rugby was a big deal though!

It is - if you are in a school...

There are a lot of good players coming through the club game these days - last year's European player of the year, for example.

Sindri

Pherekydes wrote: »

I admit I put little thought into the argument based on the rankings. So let's do that now:

At the last RWC, 20 teams qualified for the finals, these were ranked 1-19 plus number 21. Countries ranked 1-8 made the QF. Are the rankings not predictive of playing strength?

In 2003, the first and second ranked teams played for the win.

Two small examples, but...

Yeah and Tonga beat France.

Connacht beat Harlequins, Aviva Premiership 2011/2012 champions. Connacht finished 8th in the Rabodirect Pro 12.

Pherekydes wrote: »

Are the rankings not predictive of playing strength?

Tonga were ranked 9th before beating France who were ranked 8th. A week later France were ranked 5th and Tonga were still 9th, even though they had beat them.


I already asked you had you considered the disingenuity in arguing based on rank. I already asked you were you familiar with how the ranking procedure took place. I thought it would be obvious that arguing based on rankings would be disingenious given there nature and continuing to do so actually is disingenious. I also notice that you didn't acknowledge Connacht beating Harlequins, the Aviva Premiership 2011/2012 champions, or did that just not suit your argument.

On the disingenuity of rankings consider that Ireland are to play New Zealand in 3 summer tests and are more than likely going to lose all 3 of them. Consider that if Ireland did lose all 3 of them by 15 points or less, Ireland would be ranked 10th, behind Tonga and Samoa and that's not even taking into consideration the likely outcome of other games. Are Ireland worse than Samoa and Tonga? Well if rankings are predictive of playing strength then I suppose we must be. If Ireland won 2 of those games by 15 points or less Ireland would be at least 3rd, if we won 1 we would be 4th.

They're disingenuous. I honestly thought that that would be obvious as well as being obvious that they are disingenuous to anyone familiar with the ranking procedure, which I asked you if you were, yet you decided to base your argument on it even though you weren't.

dodderangler

bullvine wrote: »

Serious Q. Whats the options for a teenage kid playing Rugby in Dublin if you dont want to send him to a fee paying school like Blackrock College or similar. Are you restricted with the level they can achieve, with Football I can just send him to St Francis, Home Farm etc.. they are tied to a school!

Well most schools play it now I started to play it in school when I was in second year and was our first year ever playin it and won junior league with likes of Templeogue and blackrock
And I plus two others got trials for some higher weekend clubs and Leinster didn't make it one of us did so its no longer a upper class type of sport anymore
I play for tallaght r f c and we have good history in terms of cups and trophys and promotions to higher leagues

Royale with Cheese

The OP has summed up pretty much exactly how I feel about Rugby. I like it as a game & used to be into it as a kid. However the amount of people in Ireland who have absolutely no interest in any other sport but cream their pants whenever Leinster are playing just pisses me right off.

Rugby must be the only sport where a decent percentage of the followers have no interest in any other sports. Says a lot about those people, complete bandwagon jumpers. I see it as some kind of middle class identity thing, you may have zero interest in sport but as middle class South Dub you should follow Rugby (and I say that as a middle class South Dub).

Anyway, these type of people have put me right off the game in recent years. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Also for anyone who truly loves Rugby, learn to express your affection for the game without having a go at the world's most popular sport in the same sentence. You ain't going to win any fans having a pop at football every 5 seconds. Look at this thread, third post in and somebody posts 'Soccer is shíte'. When did the OP ever mention soccer?

Monty Burnz

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

The OP has summed up pretty much exactly how I feel about Rugby. I like it as a game & used to be into it as a kid. However the amount of people in Ireland who have absolutely no interest in any other sport but cream their pants whenever Leinster are playing just pisses me right off.

Rugby must be the only sport where a decent percentage of the followers have no interest in any other sports. Says a lot about those people, complete bandwagon jumpers. I see it as some kind of middle class identity thing, you may have zero interest in sport but as middle class South Dub you should follow Rugby (and I say that as a middle class South Dub).

Anyway, these type of people have put me right off the game in recent years. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Also for anyone who truly loves Rugby, learn to express your affection for the game without having a go at the world's most popular sport in the same sentence. You ain't going to win any fans having a pop at football every 5 seconds.

I guess you are too young to remember Euro '88 and Italia '90? The exact same thing happened with football - only ten times worse. That just reflects on our society, not on a particular sport.

Paparazzo

My pet hate about rugby is when people think the entire province of Leinster is just a tiny area of Dublin that would take you 45 minutes to walk across.

I've gone to games and sat beside people from Wexford, Mullingar, Drogheda, Navan, Portlaoise. Even a few people with working class dublin accents :eek: . Not sure what part of Dublin they were from, I was afraid to approach them.

Royale with Cheese

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I guess you are too young to remember Euro '88 and Italia '90? The exact same thing happened with football - only ten times worse. That just reflects on our society, not on a particular sport.

I know bandwagon jumping isn't confined to rugby. It's the attitudes towards other sports from these people that gets me. A lot of them clearly have no interest in sport whatsoever, yet are all of a sudden rugby fanatics. You then have these people telling you why the sports you love are shíte? Really can't stand it.

ormond lad

bullvine wrote: »

Serious Q. Whats the options for a teenage kid playing Rugby in Dublin if you dont want to send him to a fee paying school like Blackrock College or similar. Are you restricted with the level they can achieve, with Football I can just send him to St Francis, Home Farm etc.. they are tied to a school!

No you are not restricted with the level you can achieve. You can play with a club and if deemed good enough, play at provincial level with either the Youths side or schools A side. If academy coaches see you training/playing with that team you may be asked join the sub academy/academy.

Monty Burnz

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I know bandwagon jumping isn't confined to rugby. It's the attitudes towards other sports from these people that gets me. A lot of them clearly have no interest in sport whatsoever, yet are all of a sudden rugby fanatics.

Yeah, the exact same as with the football when we were successful. I presume those people don't bother with sport at all when we aren't successful at anything. If we have a good run of games at the Euros, brace yourself for the exact same phenomenon.

Sindri

ceegee wrote: »

While cheating in rugby by feigning injury is rarer than soccer it tends to be much more planned when it does occur ie front rows going off "injured" to ensure uncontested scrums. Not to mention Bloodgate, which pretty much blitzes any of Drogba et al's antics

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fresh-italian-scandal-just-the-tip-of-global-gamefixing-conspiracy-3122889.html

Fixing football matches is almost as old as the game itself, and fixed football matches in Italy are also far from a new phenomenon. But yesterday's dramatic developments are striking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Italian_football_scandal

BraziliaNZ

I don't know how anyone identifies with a province though

Monty Burnz

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't know how anyone identifies with a province though

But you understand how people identify with a city in a country they don't even live in?

kfallon

Sindri wrote: »

I already asked you had you considered the disingenuity in arguing based on rank. I already asked you were you familiar with how the ranking procedure took place. I thought it would be obvious that arguing based on rankings would be disingenious given there nature and continuing to do so actually is disingenious. I also notice that you didn't acknowledge Connacht beating Harlequins, the Aviva Premiership 2011/2012 champions, or did that just not suit your argument.

On the disingenuity of rankings consider that Ireland are to play New Zealand in 3 summer tests and are more than likely going to lose all 3 of them. Consider that if Ireland did lose all 3 of them by 15 points or less, Ireland would be ranked 10th, behind Tonga and Samoa and that's not even taking into consideration the likely outcome of other games. Are Ireland worse than Samoa and Tonga? Well if rankings are predictive of playing strength then I suppose we must be. If Ireland won 2 of those games by 15 points or less Ireland would be at least 3rd, if we won 1 we would be 4th.

They're disingenuous. I honestly thought that that would be obvious as well as being obvious that they are disingenuous to anyone familiar with the ranking procedure, which I asked you if you were, yet you decided to base your argument on it even though you weren't.

Somebody learn a new word today? :pac:

bamboozle

i love rugby (especially club rugby), the game is interesting, players respect each other and there is very little of the pansy ass play acting that is so prevalent in soccer and even sneaking into GAA (dubs v donegal semi final last year saw plenty of grown men rolling on the ground like they'd been shot to waste time)

no doubt the social aspect to rugby is a reason why so many women enjoy rugby, you can go to a game, mingle with opposition fans during and after the game without worrying about getting into a fight or the jersey on your back.

watching James Perch getting Reina sent off a while back was just another example of overpaid, pansies ruining the beautiful game.

each to their own though!

BraziliaNZ

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But you understand how people identify with a city in a country they don't even live in?

I don't really. Bohs till I die.

Monty Burnz

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't really. Bohs till I die.

Fair enough, but I'd guess that puts you in a small minority of Irish football fans. I can certainly relate to a province that represents where I grew up and where I played the game, and where people I know or people from my neighbourhood are out on the field representing me.

Paparazzo

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't know how anyone identifies with a province though

Same way you identify with a county, city, country, group of countries, continent.
If you're from that place you support them. When they have most of their players from that area, it makes it even easier.