Health Extremists & Idiots

MisterCadbury

So was on Youtube earlier and came across this guy promoting a 30 banana a day diet. I thought that's fairly weird and can't be good for you over 3000 cals a day from bananas alone. Anyway clicked onto his channel and saw he had another video about cancer, that really set me off.

Its a long video but in synopsis he claims idiotic things like chewing your food 500 times before you swallow it or going on a juice cleansing diet will cure cancer. Spreading that kind of crap should be against the law. It is putting peoples lives at risk and turning them against proven and approved medical treatments. Now I am all in favor of a good healthy diet but we all know that that alone will NOT cure caner and its horrible to be giving people false hope and leading them astray by leading them to believe it does.

squod

There's only one thing for it.

Dave!

Agree 100%...

flutterflye

If people are stupid enough to believe that stuff, then maybe the world is better without them.

dirtyden

MisterCadbury wrote: »

So was on Youtube earlier and came across this guy promoting a 30 banana a day diet. I thought that's fairly weird and can't be good for you over 3000 cals a day from bananas alone. Anyway clicked onto his channel and saw he had another video about cancer, that really set me off.

Its a long video but in synopsis he claims idiotic things like chewing your food 500 times before you swallow it or going on a juice cleansing diet will cure cancer. Spreading that kind of crap should be against the law. It is putting peoples lives at risk and turning them against proven and approved medical treatments. Now I am all in favor of a good healthy diet but we all know that that alone will NOT cure caner and its horrible to be giving people false hope and leading them astray by leading them to believe it does.

I agree totally with the point you are making. But that almost sounds too crackpot for anyone to believe. But it is a disgrace that people can actually earn from making these preposterous claims and damage peoples health at the same time. Homeopathy for one.

MisterCadbury

AHH, Right I couldn't let it go and had to comment on the video so my comment was

"You are a horribly misguided idiot. Selling snake oil. Your stupid ideas are just a way for you try and grab money from vulnerable people. What do you know about cancer? Show me your analysis from how your juice cleanes cure cancer? Your clinical studies. You are preventing people who have have cancer from getting treatment that actually works, that has been through clinical trials. Fresh water? Tea? You should be ashamed of yourself .Sure a good diet is great but it WILL NOT cure cancer."

His reply
"Your own health challenges will improve when you release the shame and anger that is in you. So much resistance, just let it go."


Bloody hell like, this guy needs to be locked up!!

Dave!

flutterflye wrote: »

If people are stupid enough to believe that stuff, then maybe the world is better without them.

tbh someone with terminal cancer is in a pretty vulnerable state, you can hardly blame them for trying something that they might in other circumstances know to be bollox. It's the filth peddling this crap that make me sick. They're usually selling a book or something too.

Peetrik

People were sure the earth was flat at one stage too. In fairness its fairly well established that our diet is one of the major factors of what causes cancer. Suggesting that fresh fruit and veg would be better for you than all the crap we currently eat doesn't make him an idiot IMO.

alchemist33

MisterCadbury wrote: »

His reply
"Your own health challenges will improve when you release the shame and anger that is in you. So much resistance, just let it go."

Bet you wouldn't have taken him on if you'd known he was Yoda.

eth0

We'll do a wee section on it!

token101

Peetrik wrote: »

People were sure the earth was flat at one stage too. In fairness its fairly well established that our diet is one of the major factors of what causes cancer. Suggesting that fresh fruit and veg would be better for you than all the crap we currently eat doesn't make him an idiot IMO.

Big difference between prevention and cure. He doesn't seem to know the difference.

Mr.Biscuits

Dave! wrote: »

tbh someone with terminal cancer is in a pretty vulnerable state, you can hardly blame them for trying something that they might in other circumstances know to be bollox.

Exactly and oncologists administer chemo because it does help some people at the end of the day.

It's the filth peddling this crap that make me sick.

Ah, pharmaceutical companies are not filth now, that's going a bit far.

flutterflye

Dave! wrote: »

tbh someone with terminal cancer is in a pretty vulnerable state, you can hardly blame them for trying something that they might in other circumstances know to be bollox. It's the filth peddling this crap that make me sick. They're usually selling a book or something too.

Yeah, but if they're in that desperate a state, and their cancer is terminal as you suggest - where's the harm in eating bananas or whatever?!
If medical science fails - let them seek solace in whatever they wish - maybe the placebo would even help. Who knows.

dirtyden

Peetrik wrote: »

People were sure the earth was flat at one stage too. In fairness its fairly well established that our diet is one of the major factors of what causes cancer. Suggesting that fresh fruit and veg would be better for you than all the crap we currently eat doesn't make him an idiot IMO.

30 bananas a day is unhealthy.Way too much potassium leading to heart disease.

I did not watch the video so I am basing my opinion on the OP and it does not sound like he is promoting a healthy diet.

He is giving bad advice for the wrong reasons

humbert

If we started banning people for being horribly misguided and vocal about it, what would happen to After Hours??

Capt'n Midnight

Yes to free speech

No to incitement.



Yes you are entitled to your opinion.

But when you try to make money off it , it's no longer an opinion.

IIRC
if you get free advice from a bloke down a pub, and it turns out that he really is an architect and should have known that telling you to cut through the joists in your attic would have collapsed your roof then you can sue him.


If someone is claiming that cancer can be cured by eating bananas then they have to prove it because it may delay people getting treatment that actually works.

If someone is advocating doing something that is harmful then they should be held accountable, especially if they claim authority / making money from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYba0m6ztE

Capt'n Midnight

humbert wrote: »

If we started banning people for being horribly misguided and vocal about it, what would happen to After Hours??

misguided and vocal is OK

harming others is not

MisterCadbury

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yes to free speech

No to incitement.



Yes you are entitled to your opinion.

But when you try to make money off it , it's no longer an opinion.

He is making money off peddling this false hope , just one glance at his website will tell you he is in it for the money

297$ for a phone call from him.

[HTML]http://www.outstandinghealthnow.com/about/[/HTML]

Peetrik

token101 wrote: »

Big difference between prevention and cure. He doesn't seem to know the difference.

Sure, however not necessairly in regards to diet and cancer. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no faith in most of the 'spritual' stuff he is talking about or that chewing more will make a blind bit of differance but I do think there are benifits to a clean diet that have yet to be rediscovered.

There is strong evidence to suggest that previously thought 'uncurable' type 2 diabetes can be cured just by diet. We don't know everything yet.

pragmatic1

Peetrik wrote: »

People were sure the earth was flat at one stage too. In fairness its fairly well established that our diet is one of the major factors of what causes cancer. Suggesting that fresh fruit and veg would be better for you than all the crap we currently eat doesn't make him an idiot IMO.

An unbalanced diet is one of the major causes of cancer. That would include deriving all your nurishment from just eating bananas.

Naomi00

You'd die from eating 30 bananas a day.

I know of someone who had to get their stomach pumped after eating about 15 bananas, that guy couldn't really do that?

Pherekydes

Eat 500 bananas a day!

Chew them only once!

Follow this and you will live for ever!

Dudess

Peetrik wrote: »

People were sure the earth was flat at one stage too. In fairness its fairly well established that our diet is one of the major factors of what causes cancer. Suggesting that fresh fruit and veg would be better for you than all the crap we currently eat doesn't make him an idiot IMO.

He's not saying that.

steddyeddy

MisterCadbury wrote: »

AHH, Right I couldn't let it go and had to comment on the video so my comment was

"You are a horribly misguided idiot. Selling snake oil. Your stupid ideas are just a way for you try and grab money from vulnerable people. What do you know about cancer? Show me your analysis from how your juice cleanes cure cancer? Your clinical studies. You are preventing people who have have cancer from getting treatment that actually works, that has been through clinical trials. Fresh water? Tea? You should be ashamed of yourself .Sure a good diet is great but it WILL NOT cure cancer."

His reply
"Your own health challenges will improve when you release the shame and anger that is in you. So much resistance, just let it go."


Bloody hell like, this guy needs to be locked up!!

In fairness your very right hes an idiot and hes endangering the lives of countless people but I think going on the attack is the wrong way to go about it. You could simply ask him has his research been tested in any sort of scientific trials?

EDIt: 30 bananas a day will leave you in serious risk of hyperkalemia. I hope someone with a youtube account points this out to him.

humbert

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

misguided and vocal is OK

harming others is not

Difficult to make a general distinction, but certainly if the person is profiting from it it's pretty clear cut.

Peetrik

dirtyden wrote: »

30 bananas a day is unhealthy.Way too much potassium leading to heart disease.

I did not watch the video so I am basing my opinion on the OP and it does not sound like he is promoting a healthy diet.

He is giving bad advice for the wrong reasons

Yep, I fully agree that 30 bananas a day is unhealthy, but the same goes for too much of anything.
They guy is saying a lot of things that I disagree with, however as regards to a clean diet with raw foods I think this is good advice.
It might be for the wrong reasons but its still good advice.

Peetrik

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An unbalanced diet is one of the major causes of cancer. That would include deriving all your nurishment from just eating bananas.

He didn't suggest just eating bananas.

dirtyden

Peetrik wrote: »

Yep, I fully agree that 30 bananas a day is unhealthy, but the same goes for too much of anything.
They guy is saying a lot of things that I disagree with, however as regards to a clean diet with raw foods I think this is good advice.
It might be for the wrong reasons but its still good advice.

No 30 bananas a day is dangerously unhealthy, like shortening your life considerably unhealthy. Once he has said that he voids any other opinion for me.

Peetrik

Dudess wrote: »

He's not saying that.

dirtyden wrote: »

No 30 bananas a day is dangerously unhealthy, like shortening your life considerably unhealthy. Once he has said that he voids any other opinion for me.

I'm not defending the guy or his advice on bananas. I'm simply saying that as regards to rubbishing the notion that diet can have a benificial effect on people who have cancer and calling people who suggests it idiots is a fallacy as science/doctors/etc don't know everything yet.

Dudess

But nobody seems to be disputing that a healthy, balanced diet could help prevent cancer.

dirtyden

Peetrik wrote: »

I'm not defending the guy or his advice on bananas. I'm simply saying that as regards to rubbishing the notion that diet can have a benificial effect on people who have cancer and calling people who suggests it idiots is a fallacy as science/doctors/etc don't know everything yet.

Fair enough. But this thread was started about a guy giving terrible dietary advice which you initially defended.

I am glad you have come round though. I feel i may have saved you.A nice thought to depart on.

Live long my friend, 2 bananas a day is enough. Apples are much better though.

Jimoslimos

Peetrik wrote: »

Yep, I fully agree that 30 bananas a day is unhealthy, but the same goes for too much of anything.
They guy is saying a lot of things that I disagree with, however as regards to a clean diet with raw foods I think this is good advice.
It might be for the wrong reasons but its still good advice.

oh ffs, not this fad.

Bookworm85

Thankfully I don't have cancer, but do take a drug call methotrexate for my psoriasis/artritis that is also prescribed to people with certain cancers. For all intents and purposes it is a mild form of chemo and it makes me feel like ****. I can totally understand why people who are suffering from cancer and are receiving aggressive treatment might turn to these kinds of people in the hopes of finding a more friendly alternative.

These people are charlatans, nothing more, nothing less. I have a very good friend who swears by homeopathy and other "natural" cures. She sent me a link to a documentary called 'Food Matters'...... What a load of horses sh*t! Fella's claiming that they can cure manic depressives, cancer, HIV/AIDS with high doses of vitamin C! Its worth a watch if you want to learn more about these new age weirdos.

I also recommend Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science. He does a great job at dismissing all these super food type people. Definitely worth the read.

Capt'n Midnight

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An unbalanced diet is one of the major causes of cancer. That would include deriving all your nurishment from just eating bananas.

Dudess wrote: »

But nobody seems to be disputing that a healthy, balanced diet could help prevent cancer.

The old Victorian myth of 'if you eat the right food you will live forever'.

We've had about 500 million years experience of eating stuff and we are fairly omniverous.

the 5 a day is 5 because that's all the UK health promotion people thought people would swallow,


you can live on just potatoes OR brown rice
you can starve to death on rabbits
and don't even think of eating polar bear liver


As long as you avoid junk and have a mix of food you are probably OK

and no you don't need vitamin supplements unless you are really eating badly - though I am partial to Vitamin C myself (it's water soluble so won't build up like A or D)

Jimoslimos

Bookworm85 wrote: »

I also recommend Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science. He does a great job at dismissing all these super food type people. Definitely worth the read.

Yeah, I'll second that. It's a fantastic book, destroys a lot of the bullsh1t out there, and is easy to understand for non-scientists.

humbert

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The old Victorian myth of 'if you eat the right food you will live forever'.

We've had about 500 million years experience of eating stuff and we are fairly omniverous.

the 5 a day is 5 because that's all the UK health promotion people thought people would swallow,


you can live on just potatoes OR brown rice
you can starve to death on rabbits
and don't even think of eating polar bear liver


As long as you avoid junk and have a mix of food you are probably OK

and no you don't need vitamin supplements unless you are really eating badly - though I am partial to Vitamin C myself (it's water soluble so won't build up like A or D)

But are you suggesting that beyond junk food there is no relationship between diet and longevity?

Peetrik

Dudess wrote: »

But nobody seems to be disputing that a healthy, balanced diet could help prevent cancer.

No, not saying anyone has. The point I'm trying to make is that that I think its unfair to rubbish the idea that diet can help cure cancer seeing as there is so much we still don't know.

dirtyden wrote: »

Fair enough. But this thread was started about a guy giving terrible dietary advice which you initially defended.

I am glad you have come round though. I feel i may have saved you.A nice thought to depart on.

Wasn't defending him. Was simply defending the notion that diet can have an effect on cancer. I still believe its very possible that it does have an effect on cancer BTW so I'm not sure where you got the 'comeing around' idea.

Peetrik

Jimoslimos wrote: »

oh ffs, not this fad.

Yes the very notion that fire and heat might also effect nutritional value as well as changing flavour, texture and appearance... ffs.

Jimoslimos

Peetrik wrote: »

No, not saying anyone has. The point I'm trying to make is that that I think its unfair to rubbish the idea that diet can help cure cancer seeing as there is so much we still don't know.

I think it's perfectly ok to rubbish such an absurd claim, especially if there's no evidence to back it up.

Peetrik wrote: »

Wasn't defending him. Was simply defending the notion that diet can have an effect on cancer. I still believe its very possible that it does have an effect on cancer BTW so I'm not sure where you got the 'comeing around' idea.

You could equally argue that proper diet and nutrition could have a negative effect, insofar as you're effectively 'feeding' the tumour* - BTW refer to point above and feel free to rubbish that point since there's no evidence for what I've just claimed. Science isn't about what you 'believe'.

*EDIT: I'm not advocating people with cancer shouldn't eat proplerly - just pointing out how easy it is to make an argument sound vaguely scientific and believable.

Peetrik

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I think it's perfectly ok to rubbish such an absurd claim, especially if there's no evidence to back it up.

There is plenty of evidence connecting diet with health. I amn't claiming it as fact I'm just suggesting that the notion that diet might also help with cancer is a lot more believable than the notion of a deity helping IMO.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You could equally argue that proper diet and nutrition could have a negative effect, insofar as you're effectively 'feeding' the tumour.

Sure, I'd disagree but cool story.

Mr.Biscuits

Dara O'Brien being held up as a beacon of truth? Really.

The smug nonsense really does get high pitched in these discussions.

Look, you will always get people that will take advantage of those who are ill and I hope there is a special place in hell for 'em but the medical professional is not all squeaky clean here either and certainly does not have all the answers when it comes to treatments for various disorders and diseases.

The vast majority of people that end up seeking alternative treatments for illness, usually do so as a LAST resort. I would say that the number of people that go the alternative route after being diagnosed (with whatever illness) and ignore medical treatments that they have been offered, is very very small.

Diet and lifestyle change is NOT just for preventive measures, it can REVERSE certain disease states and people that say that it can't, are endangering the lives of those that could be getting well by scaring them away from the alternatives.

By all means people should get medical treatment for what ails them, but when and if the medical professional fails them, then they shouldn't ever be afraid to look elsewhere as there are many alternative health professionals out there (some of them medical doctors) that have made great strides and progress when it comes to using diet and lifestyle changes to reverse disease.

People criticise such doctors and beat them with the usual sticks, like that they may have a book to sell, as if there was a better way for them to get their message and health discoveries out there. As if they could just ask Glaxo to spread the word for them maybe. Yeah, cause they'll have no problem pumping a few billion into funding dietary research on what can reverse heart disease or type 2 diabetes, that's there goal afterall, right.

Again, of course there are charlatans out there, but there are also some very good researchers that have studied dietary changes as a means of treatments and in many cases, do a far better job than the medical professionals who don't and thankfully, there are now more and more medical professionals willing to try dietary measures on their patients based on the excellent findings of many researchers.

Smugness would soon disappear when your suffereing and a doctor tells you they 'can do no more, take care of yourself'. "Bad science" they scream - well, keep screaming but let me know when you are crippled with MS and your wasting away and the medical professional tells you that they can do feck all more for you and we'll see if you're so eager to wait for millions to fund that quadrupole blind control group study to prove some dietary hypothesis true or not - my money's on not.

Here's just two people out there involved in "bad science" but yet getting good anecdotal (oh noes) results:

http://www.terrywahls.com/
http://www.news-releases.uiowa.edu/2011/November/111411MS_study.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxFai4iVOtk

Jimoslimos

Peetrik wrote: »

Yes the very notion that fire and heat might also effect nutritional value as well as changing flavour, texture and appearance... ffs.

Ah swallowed the Doctor Gillian McKeith handbook on diet then?

Peetrik wrote: »

Sure, I'd disagree but cool story.

Yes, cool story - with about as much evidence (none) as one claiming diet can cure cancer.

mackg

flutterflye wrote: »

If people are stupid enough to believe that stuff, then maybe the world is better without them.

The church has said that condoms cause AIDS, would you say that people who heed this and contract the disease deserve it? Of course you don't, to me it is the same thing.

flutterflye wrote: »

Yeah, but if they're in that desperate a state, and their cancer is terminal as you suggest - where's the harm in eating bananas or whatever?!
If medical science fails - let them seek solace in whatever they wish - maybe the placebo would even help. Who knows.

But the problem with the banana business is that it could have negative health effects and on top of it he is ripping people off with things like that $297 phone call scam.

Out of curiosity does anyone here think that this guy, if he contracted cancer, would rely solely on his "treatments"?

Jimoslimos

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Look, you will always get people that will take advantage of those who are ill and I hope there is a special place in hell for 'em but the medical professional is not all squeaky clean here either and certainly does not have all the answers when it comes to treatments for various disorders and diseases.

As Bookworm recommended, Bad Science by Ben Goldacre doesn't just look at the quacks and charlatans but is also just as critical of dishonest practices by Big Pharma.

Bookworm85 wrote: »

I also recommend Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science. He does a great job at dismissing all these super food type people. Definitely worth the read.

KKkitty

People often get cancer from a genetic disposition. That amount of bananas would kill you for sure. What about people who've never drank or smoked and still got cancer? You can't blame diet balanced or not for certain things happening to people. Nowadays people rarely have time to exercise, eat well and are stressed with work and financial worries and may not eat as good as they should but how many people whose diets are healthy and they're active get cancer. It's something that can happen no matter how we live our lives.

Mr.Biscuits

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Ah swallowed the Doctor Gillian McKeith handbook on diet then?

In fairness, I'd want to be taking dietary advice from someone looking a little bit healthier than Gillian McKeith. There is also a lot of contradictory advice out there but rubbishing it all isn't the answer either.

As for 30 Bananas a Day OP, I think you actually have the wrong guy, as from what I can see, a guy called Harley Johnstone (an Australian cyclist) is the proprietor of said website:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rRlIdGKTiM

UL_heart_throb

I never heard of this guy before, he's Irish though yeah?

Anyway, I looked at his site and he always says disease as dis-ease like emphasising the fact it's feeling unwell. The only way I can fathom how he can get away with peddling this ****e is that he is offering 'alternative methods' to help people feel better. Like, obviously, eating a juice diet will not change the course of breast cancer. But, if someone with breast cancer on some chemodrugs, might 'feel better' after eating a lot of juice combined with a placebo effect? possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQuODiMlUsc

Capt'n Midnight

KKkitty wrote: »

People often get cancer from a genetic disposition. .

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0528/poor-awareness-of-cancer-risk-report.html

The survey found 20% believed that cancer is inherited.

However, scientists say that only 3-5% of cancers are inherited.

And in future this 3-5% can be screened by DNA sequencing

Capt'n Midnight

humbert wrote: »

But are you suggesting that beyond junk food there is no relationship between diet and longevity?

For the vast majority of people it's the old 'eat a balanced diet' and don't pig out.

Some people - and screening would ID most - have to be very careful about what they eat, but for the rest of us there hasn't really been much improvement in life expectancy for an adult since they stopped adding arsenic to bread.

tonnes of studies have been done and it sorta boils down to

For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies.

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.

3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.

4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.

5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than us.

CONCLUSION:

Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

UL_heart_throb

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0528/poor-awareness-of-cancer-risk-report.htmlAnd in future this 3-5% can be screened by DNA sequencing

Some predispositions to cancers are inherited. Why are you trying to selectively quote that women to make her sound in correct. There is a strong famalial component in breast and ovarian cancer (BRCA1, BRCA2)