Heysel

paddy978

May I be the first to say RIP to the 39 Juve fans who sadly lost their lives on this day 27 years ago.

citytillidie

RIP to the 32 Italians, 4 Belgians, 2 French and 1 from up North

Benimar

RIP.

I remember watching it and being stunned to silence, really was an horrific night. The game shouldn't have gone ahead IMO, as they knew people had died.

I genuinely cannot remember one minute of the game, but have clear recollections of the scenes beforehand.

LuckyLloyd

RIP

GavRedKing

Never a good thing when fans go out to a game and dont return, RIP to all lives lost.

Sappy404

RIP

Kess73

The game should have been stopped. Have some vague memories of the game but very little stuck in the mind after seeing the horrors that came beforehand.

What happened in Rome the year before should have had the authorities on high alert given that 1985 again saw England and Italy again making up the participants in the European cup final.

Also the events in the days building up to the match in 1985 should have seen the authorities cancel the game imho. You had Liverpool firms, Manchester firms, the Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF, the MIGs, the Terrors, the Toons, and many other firms all over for "revenege" for what happened in Rome in 1984 when their Italian counterparts arrived to make bits of women and children from Liverpool who had been over with families for the final in 1984.

The 39 in Heysel ended up being the victims of brainless vicious thugs who did not come over to watch a football match. Those animals came over to harm Italian people in the same way the Italian firms did to English people the year before. The very idea that those thugs went over as some kind of vengence for the year before is just disgusting. Those thugs did not care about the people injured the year before and they showed exactly what they thought of life in 1985.



Had a run in some years ago with a man from Turin who, when he heard my accent, went beserk as he had lost his son that day and the Liverpool accent was still a flame that lit his emotional touchpaper. I won't go into the details as I posted the story on here before, but all I could do was take his abuse without firing back because what happened four years after Heysel taught me a bit about loss and frustration.


RIP to the 39. Not one of you should not have come home from that game. Each and every one of you has left a senseless hole in the lives of so many.

Lawrence1895

I was watching the whole disaster on German TV, they just had the pictures without any commentary. It was so sad to see all that, I was supporting Liverpool already and felt ashamed of it...

I was just 15, and it took a good while to find out, why all that happened, since the German media was quite biased at that stage.

Anyway, R.I.P. to all the victims. YNWA

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Horrible stain in footballing history, RIP to the 39.

stovelid

Start of a horrible few years for in football: Heysel Bradford, Hillsborough.

Seems crazy that It could have happened at a major final now.

eagle eye

RIP to those fans that lost their lives but I'd prefer not to be reminded of that horrible night tbh.

Mr Alan

So tragic.

RIP.

willmunny1990

RIP to those fans who needlessly lost their lives on that faithful day, a day that left a stain on our great game forever.

cournioni

RIP 39.

101001

Kess73 wrote: »

.... Also the events in the days building up to the match in 1985 should have seen the authorities cancel the game imho. You had Liverpool firms, Manchester firms, the Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF, the MIGs, the Terrors, the Toons, and many other firms all over for "revenege" for what happened in Rome in 1984 when their Italian counterparts arrived to make bits of women and children from Liverpool who had been over with families for the final in 1984....

Any chance of some linkage to some articles or maybe some books on the topic. In all my looking up on the subject I've never come across the above information. Hopefully something with a good helping of objectivity. Its a rare and under discussed topic. I often wonder why

Zebra3

Was this anniversary even mentioned in any British media?

GavRedKing

The Mirror and Telegraph

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/heysel-football-stadium-anniversary-of-disaster-852138

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9296912/Liverpool-and-Juventus-mark-27th-anniversary-of-Heysel-Stadium-disaster.html

The English FA also :
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2012/heysel-remembered.aspx

daveyboy_1ie

RIP, tragic day.

Zebra3

gavredking wrote: »

The Mirror and Telegraph

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/heysel-football-stadium-anniversary-of-disaster-852138

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9296912/Liverpool-and-Juventus-mark-27th-anniversary-of-Heysel-Stadium-disaster.html

The English FA also :
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2012/heysel-remembered.aspx

Didn't see anything on Sky about it yesterday, didn't seem to be anything about it on BBC's website either.

stesaurus

Managed to miss this entirely yesterday due to the lack of coverage. Crazy how little attention it gets in British/Irish media.
Would Sky not have been better focusing on something like that for their 'special report' rather than feckin Joe Cole???

GavRedKing

Zebra3 wrote: »

Didn't see anything on Sky about it yesterday, didn't seem to be anything about it on BBC's website either.

A friend linked me to a part of the BBC site " on this day " but the link was from a few years back.

Its shocking the lack of coverage it gets considering it was a European Cup final and it featured 2 of Europes biggest teams.

The backlash and the fact English teams were banned from European competitions for several years after it could be a factor in the lack of reporting as it is definetly a dark day for English football as a whole.

Thankfully we've come full circle now and scenes like that are few and far between.

Neil3030

Are people that surprised that the British media glossed over this? Wasn't exactly the proudest day in their history.

GavRedKing

Neil3030 wrote: »

Are people that surprised that the British media glossed over this? Wasn't exactly the proudest day in their history.

Not surprised at all, but they could have at least acknowledged it. It will go down as one of the worse incidents at a game.

froog

what exactly do people expect in fairness, headlines in all the major papers on the anniversary for the next 100 years?? if every tragedy was remembered every year, there wouldn't be a day left. have to move on at some point.

Neil3030

gavredking wrote: »

Not surprised at all, but they could have at least acknowledged it. It will go down as one of the worse incidents at a game.

Yeah, pretty bloody shameful on behalf of otherwise respectable media sources - BBC, Guardian, Times all ignored it.

<tinfoil hat> Bit too close to the Euros to be dragging this kind of stuff up?</tinfoil hat>

Kess73

101001 wrote: »

Any chance of some linkage to some articles or maybe some books on the topic. In all my looking up on the subject I've never come across the above information. Hopefully something with a good helping of objectivity. Its a rare and under discussed topic. I often wonder why

Here is a link to a site belonging to a Juventus supporter that pretty much has all the main details on the page in short form.

http://bianconeri.tripod.com/heysel.html


Would also suggest that you and anybody else interested should watch Heysel 1985: Requiem For A Cup Final

I put up all the parts before in one of the LFC superthreads along with other links to various articles and websites that go into detail on the tragedy and what had happened the year before as well.

Here is part one and the other eight parts can be watched on youtube as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnCz4CbSMII

Personally I think it is essential viewing on the topic, and it is something that I think all Liverpool supporters, especially the younger ones, should watch along with Hillsborough - The Documentary so that they get a grasp on the two terrible tragedies that the club has been involved in, and develop an understanding as to why neither should ever be forgotten.

Kess73

gavredking wrote: »

Not surprised at all, but they could have at least acknowledged it. It will go down as one of the worse incidents at a game.

There were three memorial services for it. One in Turin, one in Heysel, and one in Liverpool. Same services are held every year regardless of whether the british media report on them or not.

It does get more coverage in mainland Europe each year with the Belgian and Italian media being the ones that give it the most coverage for obvious reasons.

DoctorGonzo08

What are peoples view on wether justice has been done here? 27 arrests turns to 14 convictions of 3 years suspended, of which half were suspended after 1.5 years. None competed full term.

I just ask based on the points raised in the Hillsborough discussion.

Genuinely interested and I have read up on both events.

Kess73

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

What are peoples view on wether justice has been done here? 27 arrests turns to 14 convictions of 3 years suspended, of which half were suspended after 1.5 years. None competed full term.

I just ask based on the points raised in the Hillsborough discussion.

Genuinely interested and I have read up on both events.

I think that the victims that day did not see proper justice carried out in their names. I don't really care where those that were convicted were from be it Liverpool (think it was 8 that were from the Merseyside area), London, Manchester or wherever. They should have, imho, been locked away for a long time.

A lot of those charged were serial offenders in England, for crimes that took place in and around football grounds and also for regular crime, so their past records should have been used more forcefully to make sure those thugs had multiple manslaughter charges stuck to them.

But under Belgian law at the time there were loopholes that were exploited by the legal teams of the charged and that played a big part in them getting sentences that I think were damn insulting to the victims along with the family and friends of the victims.

I do know that certain individuals in Liverpool became pariahs in the city because once their roles in the tragedy became public knowledge, ordinary folk treated them with the disust and scorn they deserved.

I also think that the police had a lot to answer for on the day as well as there were incidents kicking off in the 36 hours before the game that were pretty much afters from the European cup final in Rome from the year before, and I think it was pretty obvious that at some point things would get worse. But the blame I would put towards the police and even UEFA for letting such a volatile mix of supporters (primarily English and Italian) into such a run down stadium which did not have enough police on site, would be very much the minority share of the blame.

The overwhelming majority of the blame goes to the thugs that caused 39 people to die at a football match. I say the same thing about Hillsborough, and the same can be said about Bradford and other tragic events, but it really messes with my head to try and accept not coming home from a game as reality. Just imagine waving a family member off as they head to a Shelbourne game, or a Munster match and that's the last time you ever see them. Nobody should go to a game to die, and if someone causes that to happen, then there should be no hiding behind laws or hiding behind government files for them.

I have tremendous empathy for the families and friends of the 39 because I know exactly what it feels like to look at the tv and see a tragedy take place in a football stadium and know that I have family and friends somewhere in the middle of what I am watching unfold. I also understand the feelings of frustration, anger, rage, pain, hate, helplessness, and sheer numbness that follow, and I totally get the need to never forget, the need to want to fight for your fallen family/friend, and the need to see that through to the end no matter how long it takes.

I understand why many Juventus supporters hate the name of Liverpool, and I understand why many will lash out when they get near someone from Liverpool.

And you know what? I agree with them 100%. It is their loss and nobody, nobody, has the right to tell them to move on or to forget. I am a Liverpool supporter, I speak with a scouse accent, and I see what happened in 1985 as a mark of shame upon my club, my city, my home, and while the city soon had it's own cross to bear in terms of loss, Heysel will never be forgotten in Liverpool as our own loss hammered home in brutal fashion what kind of hell the family and friends of the Heysel 39 were going through.

Sorry going off on a bit of a verbal wander, but if it makes one person read into what happened to the 39 in more detail, then it was words well spent.

DoctorGonzo08

Very well said. I hink it is a very interesting topic, both tragedies in particular. I know that may seem a little morbid, but there are facts and phrases thrown around about both of them incorrectly that are unfortunatley repeated, which is what got me reading up on both to see what all the arguments were about.

I was shocked to find out the sentencing, but I guess not surprised. It is important to point out that it was English fans, and not just Liverpool fans. I think they represented 16 of the 27 arrested.

Another point raised is the fact that they all had previous records of holiganism. I think this point is quite relevant today in the case of the convicted criminal being allowed to be released to go to the Euro's to 'support' Ireland.

At the very least we should be taking in the lessons that have been learnt from previous disasters, rather than repeating them.

The_Kew_Tour

Some of you seem be pointing that it was more then Liverpool fans invloved which is news to me.

DoctorGonzo08

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Some of you seem be pointing that it was more then Liverpool fans invloved which is news to me.

Liverpool fans and fans from Liverpool are two different things. 16 of the 27 arrested were from Liverpool.

The_Kew_Tour

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Liverpool fans and fans from Liverpool are two different things. 16 of the 27 arrested were from Liverpool.

I see, was just curious.

Sad day alright just like all these tragedies with players and fans died no matter where or when.

Nobody should not return home from game.

DoctorGonzo08

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I see, was just curious.

Yeah, I can see where it can mistook, as my comment did use the word 'fans'. Sorry.

The_Kew_Tour

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Yeah, I can see where it can mistook, as my comment did use the word 'fans'. Sorry.

No need to be mate.

My post was just questioning the few of you that said it.

I was just questioning had I missed something.

English football back then was poison and it was not uncommon to see 2 clubs combine against others.

Nailz

My thoughts are with the friends and family of the 39 dead today.

Kess73

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Some of you seem be pointing that it was more then Liverpool fans invloved which is news to me.

That's because it was more than Liverpool supporters involved. Amongst those arrested were well known members of firms that followed other clubs around England.

The majority of those arrested, charged, and convicted were Liverpool supporters and/or from the Merseyside area, but there was a minority arrested/charged/convicted that supported other clubs or rather were the types who went out and acted like thugs under the guise of being a football supporter.

People need to look at the savage events that happened in Rome in 1984 to see what brought the thugs out in force in 1985. In 1984 men, women, and children were beaten, knifed, burned, and worse as they went over to see Liverpool take on Roma in the European cup final. The Italian firms were waiting and came from all over Italy andwent to work on anyone they could catch. This went on for about three days and there were some horrific attacks and eventually even many of the Italian police force were found guilty of being involved in attacking ordinary families in the build up to the game.

12 months later you had two teams from the same two countries involved, and the British thugs decided they were out for blood and went after innocent supporters the same barbaric way the Italian firms had gone after innocent supporters.

What happened in 1985 could just as easily have happened on Italian soil in 1984.

The game still has it's dark side nowadays, but I can safely say that it is nowhere near the depths it reached in the late 70's and during the . I think a lot of those on here that started going to games from the late 90's onwards would not be able to grasp just how bad things could get when they went sour before or after a game years ago and what it was like when rival firms went after ordinary supporters and not each other. Depending on how often you went to games, you could go months and months without witnessing serious trouble, or if you were unlucky you could have found yourself trying to avoid areas on a regular basis.

Mr. Presentable

As far as I am aware, there has never been an enquiry into the circumstances of the disaster. I was always very disappointed at the lack of any proper justice - hooligans released early, football clubs released early into Europe, even the additional three years for Liverpool was revoked early.

The_Kew_Tour

Kess73 wrote: »

That's because it was more than Liverpool supporters involved. Amongst those arrested were well known members of firms that followed other clubs around England.

The majority of those arrested, charged, and convicted were Liverpool supporters and/or from the Merseyside area, but there was a minority arrested/charged/convicted that supported other clubs or rather were the types who went out and acted like thugs under the guise of being a football supporter.

People need to look at the savage events that happened in Rome in 1984 to see what brought the thugs out in force in 1985. In 1984 men, women, and children were beaten, knifed, burned, and worse as they went over to see Liverpool take on Roma in the European cup final. The Italian firms were waiting and came from all over Italy andwent to work on anyone they could catch. This went on for about three days and there were some horrific attacks and eventually even many of the Italian police force were found guilty of being involved in attacking ordinary families in the build up to the game.

12 months later you had two teams from the same two countries involved, and the British thugs decided they were out for blood and went after innocent supporters the same barbaric way the Italian firms had gone after innocent supporters.

What happened in 1985 could just as easily have happened on Italian soil in 1984.

The game still has it's dark side nowadays, but I can safely say that it is nowhere near the depths it reached in the late 70's and during the . I think a lot of those on here that started going to games from the late 90's onwards would not be able to grasp just how bad things could get when they went sour before or after a game years ago and what it was like when rival firms went after ordinary supporters and not each other. Depending on how often you went to games, you could go months and months without witnessing serious trouble, or if you were unlucky you could have found yourself trying to avoid areas on a regular basis.

I can only agree with pretty much all you say bar bit I did not know about.

I was too young to go to games in 80's but talking to my Uncles and my aunt who go to games regularly now and back then being at football ground was not safe place at times.

My grandmother even stopped going to games cause it seemed even the ordinary fan was not safe, although culture of attacking ordinary fans was frowned upon by these firms eventually.

English firms 99% of time wont attack the ordinary fan now thank god, but if they think your up for fight they still up for it.

Having been to Eastern Europe in my old job group of us were asked to do reports on football hooliganism over in those parts and its different ball game altogether.

Zebra3

Kess73 wrote: »

That's because it was more than Liverpool supporters involved. Amongst those arrested were well known members of firms that followed other clubs around England.

You keep saying this without backing it up with a link.

Kess73

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I can only agree with pretty much all you say bar bit I did not know about.

I was too young to go to games in 80's but talking to my Uncles and my aunt who go to games regularly now and back then being at football ground was not safe place at times.

My grandmother even stopped going to games cause it seemed even the ordinary fan was not safe, although culture of attacking ordinary fans was frowned upon by these firms eventually.

English firms 99% of time wont attack the ordinary fan now thank god, but if they think your up for fight they still up for it.

Having been to Eastern Europe in my old job group of us were asked to do reports on football hooliganism over in those parts and its different ball game altogether.

Have been to a number of games in Eastern Europe and I can say from experience some of what I saw there was very close to what I saw going to games in the late 1980's.

Back then anyone could be fair game for a firm when it suited the thugs.

Kess73

Zebra3 wrote: »

You keep saying this without backing it up with a link.

I put up the first part of the BBC documentary on what happened. I take it you did not bother to watch it before posting.

101001

Kess73 wrote: »

Here is a link to a site belonging to a Juventus supporter that pretty much has all the main details on the page in short form.

http://bianconeri.tripod.com/heysel.html


Would also suggest that you and anybody else interested should watch Heysel 1985: Requiem For A Cup Final

I put up all the parts before in one of the LFC superthreads along with other links to various articles and websites that go into detail on the tragedy and what had happened the year before as well.

Nice one for the Doc link. I'd actually been through the link to that Juventus site, liked the fact that it comes from a Juve fan site. I've been through a fair amount of the websites and articles on the net pertaining to the matter, I find them all a smidge odd or something, they're almost only telling a half story. There's a fair few links and book references on the wiki page that Im gonna go through. Cheers again.

I went and found that post you mentioned as well.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76968408&postcount=4055 just in case any others are interested

101001

Zebra3 wrote: »

You keep saying this without backing it up with a link.

Actually if you read through the http://bianconeri.tripod.com/heysel.html link which he posted you would've noticed it mentioned in that (I think its the first or second paragraph). It also mentions (I think thats where I read it) That there were reports of English firms fighting each other in an around Heysel before the actual event.

Its probably the best overview on the topic I've read, especially when you know its a Juve fan

dan1895

Kess73 wrote: »

That's because it was more than Liverpool supporters involved. Amongst those arrested were well known members of firms that followed other clubs around England.

The majority of those arrested, charged, and convicted were Liverpool supporters and/or from the Merseyside area, but there was a minority arrested/charged/convicted that supported other clubs or rather were the types who went out and acted like thugs under the guise of being a football supporter.

People need to look at the savage events that happened in Rome in 1984 to see what brought the thugs out in force in 1985. In 1984 men, women, and children were beaten, knifed, burned, and worse as they went over to see Liverpool take on Roma in the European cup final. The Italian firms were waiting and came from all over Italy andwent to work on anyone they could catch. This went on for about three days and there were some horrific attacks and eventually even many of the Italian police force were found guilty of being involved in attacking ordinary families in the build up to the game.

12 months later you had two teams from the same two countries involved, and the British thugs decided they were out for blood and went after innocent supporters the same barbaric way the Italian firms had gone after innocent supporters.

What happened in 1985 could just as easily have happened on Italian soil in 1984.

The game still has it's dark side nowadays, but I can safely say that it is nowhere near the depths it reached in the late 70's and during the . I think a lot of those on here that started going to games from the late 90's onwards would not be able to grasp just how bad things could get when they went sour before or after a game years ago and what it was like when rival firms went after ordinary supporters and not each other. Depending on how often you went to games, you could go months and months without witnessing serious trouble, or if you were unlucky you could have found yourself trying to avoid areas on a regular basis.

The auld lad was at that match in Rome and said it was unbelievable that no one died. Lazio hooligans showing up looking for fights with Roma hooligans and the police is the only thing that took the heat off Liverpool fans. He still gets angry talking about it to this day.

Anyway a year later he is again offered a ticket for the European cup final but thankfully declined. First Euro cup final Liverpool were involved in that he stayed home for basically because the dogs on the street knew there was going to be war and he wanted to steer well clear. But no one could have imagined that what happened would have been as tragic as it turned out.