4 Kg of Maris Otter, no Mash Tun

sharingan

A guy at our local Brewing Meetup gave me a 3-4 Kg bag of crushed Maris Otter. Its probably getting close to past its best so I want to use it quickly.

However I have never done anything with grain before and don't have a mash tun.

I was thinking of doing steep & boil to extract flavour, but using a large stock pot. I will supplement with other fermentables. I have a meat thermometer to keep a handle on the boil temperature.

First question, is this idea totally dumb? I do have more basic recipes that I can use, but I have a long weekend coming up and a fermenter that is about to be freed up. I have a handle on the temperature theory.

Any tips or suggestions? What size stock pot to use? Any temperature control advice? Links to good articles would be cool too.

Shiny

If you have a bag large enough to steep 3-4 kg of grain then you might as well mash the grains in your stock pot. You would need around 2.8 Litres of water per kg of grain so would need enough room to fit around 12 litres of water and the grain or mash twice in two steps. Less water will mean lower efficiency but perhaps this doesn't matter if you have other fermentibles to make up the difference.

All you have to do then is keep the temperature at around 67degs for an hour while keeping the bag off the bottom of the pot so that it doesn't scorch.

You wouldn't be boiling the grains as high temperatures would start to extract tannins from the grain husks.

sharingan

What kind of bag are we talking about?

I presume a kind of tough (clean) fabric bag? Or cheesecloth maybe?

Or something that would need to be purchased?

My stockpot certainly isn't large enough to do 4Kg in one go or take 12L. Though I may be tempted to pick one up anyway. I have plenty of used for a large stock pot.

mayto

Ideally you want at least a pot to hold about 15 to 20 litres. Put your crushed grain in a muslin bag like this http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=225 and use about 2.5L of water per Kg of grain for the mash. Add about 250g of crystal malt to get some colour and body in the beer.Pre heat the pot with some boiling water and then add the mash water at about 74C. The grain should cool the water to the 65 to 69 celcius range for the mash. Wrap the pot with blankets or whatever to keep the heat in. You want the mash to be in the 64 to 69 C range. At the end of the mash, carefully lift grain bag and pour wort into the boiler. Rinse the grain bag in a colander with enough 80C water so that you have about 22L of wort in the boiler. Then start the boil and add hops etc.

Martyn1989

If your considering going all grain rather then get the stock pot it may be worth your while just going for a boiler like this http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_28&products_id=576
as you will definatly want one in the future. You could follow a brew in the bag method with this and simply mash in your boiler with a sleeping bag for insulation and no sparge (steep in the boiler with grains in bag, remove grains top up with water and extra fermentables and then on to your boil).

I got a stock pot and its great for doing extract recipes but even partial mash was a pain for various reasons, mainly that my hob struggled to boil 14l. If you do go the stock pot route heat your water to temp, turn off the heat, moniter the temp and if needs a blast now and then so be it.

Just an idea which may be easier on the pocket.

oblivious

sharingan wrote: »

However I have never done anything with grain before and don't have a mash tun.

I was thinking of doing steep & boil to extract flavour, but using a large stock pot. I will supplement with other fermentables. I have a meat thermometer to keep a handle on the boil temperature.

First question, is this idea totally dumb? I do have more basic recipes that I can use, but I have a long weekend coming up and a fermenter that is about to be freed up. I have a handle on the temperature theory.

Any tips or suggestions? What size stock pot to use? Any temperature control advice? Links to good articles would be cool too.

Brew in the bag would be a good option for you. But you going to need a boiler or pot capable of handling 15 liter + (depending on volume and gravity you want)

http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/04/14/brew-in-a-bag-biab-all-grain-beer-brewing/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Brew_in_a_Bag

http://homebrewmanual.com/brew-in-a-bag/

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/20/brew-in-a-bag-biab-all-grain-brewing-method/

sharingan wrote: »

I have a meat thermometer to keep a handle on the boil temperature.

water boils at 100c at sea level

sharingan

oblivious wrote: »

Brew in the bag would be a good option for you. But you going to need a boiler or pot capable of handling 15 liter + (depending on volume and gravity you want)

Great links, the Brew in the Bag methods look exactly what I need.

To clarify - I am not against the idea of going all grain, and I can afford the gear. Just I live in a small apartment that is already filling up with fermenters and such. Also I would like to develop the skills better before investing in gear that I cannot use properly.

Getting a large stockpot is more my style at this stage, and can be used for other purposes (like siphoning/racking/bottling or even cooking).

Thanks for all the helps guys.

Mashtun

sharingan wrote: »

Also I would like to develop the skills better before investing in gear that I cannot use properly.

.

In my experience the skills that really matter when going all grain is actually getting used to using your gear which is difficult when you don't have any. I'm biased in favour of all grain so i say just take the plunge

sharingan

Mashtun wrote: »

In my experience the skills that really matter when going all grain is actually getting used to using your gear which is difficult when you don't have any. I'm biased in favour of all grain so i say just take the plunge

No room for the gear. Thats the problem.

Brew in a Bag OTOH can be applied to many non-beer techniques (i.e. country wines, ginger beer and the like).

Westwood

Go with BIAB but dont invest in larger stock pots yet. forget 5 gallon batches and look into 1-2.5 gallon first. lots of info out there. and you're able to do small batches and try lots of different syles and experiment

Lars

Westwoods got the right idea. You need to be looking at this http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153
At the cost of lower efficiency you should be able to make a higher gravity low volume of wort and dilute it to get more beer

sharingan

Westwood wrote: »

Go with BIAB but dont invest in larger stock pots yet. forget 5 gallon batches and look into 1-2.5 gallon first. lots of info out there. and you're able to do small batches and try lots of different syles and experiment

I think thats the approach I was going with - use a 15-20L stock pot (around the 2.5 gallon mark) do my grain in that, and top up with other fermentables (DME/LME) in the fermenter.

I don't think my electric hob would handle any more water than that.

Westwood

Will work fine but you'd still be doing extract, you will eventually want to mash all your grains to see if it tastes different. just get a bag and do smaller batches, buy all grain kits that are for 5 gallon batches and split them up, mix and match and experiment. much cheaper then buying dme/lme.

sharingan

Westwood wrote: »

Will work fine but you'd still be doing extract, you will eventually want to mash all your grains to see if it tastes different. just get a bag and do smaller batches, buy all grain kits that are for 5 gallon batches and split them up, mix and match and experiment. much cheaper then buying dme/lme.

Yeah, DME/LME is expensive. People think I am crazy making 20-30 L honey wines, but if you buy the cheap honey it is still a lot cheaper than DME/LME.

I have a lot of DJ's, so the 1 Gallon batches might work really well.

Degsy

I'm completely new to all grain brewing..how do you heat the water in the mash tun? Is there an element in the container or do you need to add hot water from elsewhere?

Also if you can make a boil in the bag from the boiler alone,can you survive without a mash tun in the firts place?

sharingan

Hi @Degsy
a mash-tun normally has its own heating element. You need good temperature control to extract all the goodies from the grain.

Brew in the Bag on the other hand, can be done in any large pot. At smaller scales people have success with cooker elements and the like. However for large brews electric cookers will struggle to boil all the water, and most people use gas.

Brew in the Bag can be started for very little investment (large pot, bag, thermometer), the downside is lower extraction efficiency (you need to use more grain than the equivalent mash with full kit).

I plan on doing semi-grain for the first few batches, or just 1 Gallon brews, just to get a feel for it.

BeerNut

sharingan wrote: »

a mash-tun normally has its own heating element.

You sure about that? A lot of homebrewers use a converted picnic cooler as a mash tun. The strike water is heated separately in what would be called a hot liquor tun in a commercial brewery. The insulation on the cooler is then enough to maintain the correct temperature for the mash.

sharingan

BeerNut wrote: »

You sure about that? A lot of homebrewers use a converted picnic cooler as a mash tun. The strike water is heated separately in what would be called a hot liquor tun in a commercial brewery. The insulation on the cooler is then enough to maintain the correct temperature for the mash.

I guess I overused the term 'normally' which doesn't exist at the DIY-enthusiast end of the home brewing spectrum.

I was basing off of the few commercial mash-tuns I have seen. Apologies.