"Paul Green is a great player - WHY?" says Trapattoni

darkman2

A few days ago at the Italian training camp when the hacks were interviewing Paul Green and a few others Trapattoni walked up to Green, slapped him on the back of the head, and bizarrely said "he is a great player - WHY?" in front of the journos. A few of the hacks thought Trap was "testing" them to see if they could see in Paul Green what Trapattoni sees.


It is a good question - perhaps we can help them out? So why is Paul Green so good?

Orando Broom

darkman2 wrote: »

A few days ago at the Italian training camp when the hacks were interviewing Paul Green and a few others Trapattoni walked up to Green, slapped him on the back of the head, and bizarrely said "he is a great player - WHY?" in front of the journos. A few of the hacks thought Trap was "testing" them to see if they could see in Paul Green what Trapattoni sees.


It is a good question - perhaps we can help them out? So why is Paul Green so good?

Paul Green has an eidetic memory and is able to replicate Trap's training ground instructions for midfield with almost perfect recall.

There. Boom.

kitakyushu

Come to think of it, the resemblance is uncanny

plasmaguy

I have a lot of faith in Trap and he certainly sees in some players things that the man on the street doesn't see. He does have an ability to get the most out of reasonably limited players and for them to play to the maximum of their ability.

I don't think there is anyone on the Irish side who is going to pick the ball up on the half way line, dribble around a few players and put the ball in the net ala Maradona or Messi. The best he can hope for is a solid team that breaks down and pressures the opposing team and creates an occasional chance.

If Paul Green and Paul McShane for that matter play in these championships and do a job, although I can't see that happening, Trap will be hailed a genius again.

Trap is a brilliant if controversial coach, but you don't have regular success over almost 40 years and not know something about football. In my view, the man is a genius, and if anyone was to spring a shock in the Euros, he'd be my first choice to do it.

PCPhoto

paul who ??

Orando Broom

I have to say I'll laugh when Paul Green deftly evades two tackles and slips the perfectly weighted pass into the path of an on rushing Paul McShane to bury a Carlos Alberto daisy cutter past the despairing dive of Manuel Neuer in the 87th Minute in Kiev on the 1st July. LAUGH. OUT. LOUD.

kitakyushu

Orando Broom wrote: »

I have to say I'll laugh when Paul Green deftly evades two tackles and slips the perfectly weighted pass into the path of an on rushing Paul McShane to bury a Carlos Alberto daisy cutter past the despairing dive of Manuel Neuer in the 87th Minute in Kiev on the 1st July. LAUGH. OUT. LOUD.

That'll never happen. Germany will lose in the semi's to Spain.

Orando Broom

kitakyushu wrote: »

That'll never happen. Germany will lose in the semi's to Spain.

Laugh. Out. Loud.

tolosenc

Didn't Trap describe him as an Irish Gennaro Gattuso?

Amirani

tolosenc wrote: »

Didn't Trap describe him as an Irish Gennaro Gattuso?

Fairly sure he said that about Glenn Whelan.

clubberlang12

plasmaguy wrote: »

I have a lot of faith in Trap and he certainly sees in some players things that the man on the street doesn't see. He does have an ability to get the most out of reasonably limited players and for them to play to the maximum of their ability.

Sorry, but would argue this point. He gets them to play well with in "his" system, but there is no way he gets them to play to the maximum of "their" ability. Alot of the players i think would showcase their abilities in a less rigid system. The man isn't a messiah and i wish people would stop going on like he is. He did a good job getting us to the Euro's and while i haven't/don't like some of his decisions or selections i'll be getting right behind him and the team. But thats no need to praise him in God-like status.

cson

tolosenc wrote: »

Didn't Trap describe him as an Irish Gennaro Gattuso?

NiallSparky wrote: »

Fairly sure he said that about Glenn Whelan.

Can't believe you'd insult Gleniesta by mentioning his name in such company. Pfft.

ush

Trap was just bigging up the weak link in his squad, in front of the journalists. None of them are gonna say Green doesn't belong at international level to his face. Trap can say to Green afterwards that he sees greatness in him and that the press are idiots. If any of them criticize Green's inclusion during the championship, Trap can say that they didn't have the balls/smarts to do it at the training camp.

JokerD

Anyone watch much of Green playing at club level? He was very successful with Doncaster over a number of years and was a key part in all their promotions. He was offered a new contract there before he moved to Derby. This contract was offered at a time when Doncaster where playing some lovely football.

He went to Derby and despite serious injuries, he was offered a new contract at the end of the current season. He's been a consistent performer in the championship and is a versatile player. I remember him attracting interest from Celtic at one stage.

Our squad has had a number of lower league players during the years and Green has shown in the championship he can be effective. Also I'm sure Trapattoni has a good idea what makes a good player.

Vokes

NiallSparky wrote: »

Fairly sure he said that about Glenn Whelan.

No no. He said Whelan is our Pirlo a couple of years back iirc. And Keane st our ...erm, Totti.

Pro. F

JokerD wrote: »

Anyone watch much of Green playing at club level? He was very successful with Doncaster over a number of years and was a key part in all their promotions. He was offered a new contract there before he moved to Derby. This contract was offered at a time when Doncaster where playing some lovely football.

He went to Derby and despite serious injuries, he was offered a new contract at the end of the current season. He's been a consistent performer in the championship and is a versatile player. I remember him attracting interest from Celtic at one stage.

Our squad has had a number of lower league players during the years and Green has shown in the championship he can be effective. Also I'm sure Trapattoni has a good idea what makes a good player.

Something strange must be going on then because he is absolutely useless when he plays for Ireland.

Sin City

JokerD wrote: »

Anyone watch much of Green playing at club level? He was very successful with Doncaster over a number of years and was a key part in all their promotions. He was offered a new contract there before he moved to Derby. This contract was offered at a time when Doncaster where playing some lovely football.

He went to Derby and despite serious injuries, he was offered a new contract at the end of the current season. He's been a consistent performer in the championship and is a versatile player. I remember him attracting interest from Celtic at one stage.

Our squad has had a number of lower league players during the years and Green has shown in the championship he can be effective. Also I'm sure Trapattoni has a good idea what makes a good player.

If he is such a great player why is he now unattached?

Zebra3

Sin City wrote: »

If he is such a great player why is he now unattached?

Cos nobody can afford him.

JokerD

Sin City wrote: »

If he is such a great player why is he now unattached?

He was offered a new contract at Derby but wanted to move on. His agent is in discussions with clubs.

gnfnrhead

Sin City wrote: »

If he is such a great player why is he now unattached?

He can't decide between Barcelona and Real Madrid

kitakyushu

Vokes wrote: »

No no. He said Whelan is our Pirlo a couple of years back iirc. And Keane st our ...erm, Totti.

McShane must be Materazzi then.

Orando Broom

If Green or McShane played for Celtic people would be foaming at the mouth for them to start. Celtic are at the championship level with many championship players, some better than Championship too it has to be said but they are a fashionable club in Ireland and any Irish player who plays for them is fashionable.

This is not a slight on Celtic by the way; merely an observation.

flyswatter

He was good for Doncaster. Nuff said. Not good enough.

grenache

JokerD wrote: »

Our squad has had a number of lower league players during the years and Green has shown in the championship he can be effective.

Yeah, but unfortunately he's been nothing short of rubbish in all of Ireland's games. The season just gone with Derby he was plagued by both injuries and lack of form.

A nothing player. Just like McShane.

darkman2

grenache wrote: »

A nothing player.

Hi Dunphy!

Sindri

kitakyushu wrote: »

McShane must be Materazzi then.

McShane is Sergio Ramos minus the steroids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGMuoxihmu4

AgileMyth

Orando Broom wrote: »

If Green or McShane played for Celtic people would be foaming at the mouth for them to start. Celtic are at the championship level with many championship players, some better than Championship too it has to be said but they are a fashionable club in Ireland and any Irish player who plays for them is fashionable.

This is not a slight on Celtic by the way; merely an observation.

There wasn't exactly uproar over Stoke's exclusion. Green and McShane are not good enough to be going to the Euros, doesn't matter what league you stick them in.

I'd have no problem with them going if they were the best options but they are not. Another terrible decision from our great leader.

Orando Broom

AgileMyth wrote: »

There wasn't exactly uproar over Stoke's exclusion. Green and McShane are not good enough to be going to the Euros, doesn't matter what league you stick them in.

I'd have no problem with them going if they were the best options but they are not. Another terrible decision from our great leader.

Hardly, they are squad players who are obviously well got within the group and probably are good determined, committed men who keep the tempo up at training. If there had been an injury crisis before the 23 were picked and the likes of Clark and Houlihan were overlooked for the squad I might be more inclined towards your disposition. As it stands Green is fourth choice centre midfield and McShane is a utility back up for the defence. Unlikely either will get significent game time.

kitakyushu

Orando Broom wrote: »

If Green or McShane played for Celtic people would be foaming at the mouth for them to start.

If that were the case (and I don't think that it is) then the uproar would have lasted approximately 5 minutes into their next start. As it is most people berating Green and McShane don't even see them at club level and are judging them purely on what they've seen them do for Ireland. Being a Celtic player wouldn't buy them too much time for Ireland if they were still as bad as they are out there for the national team.

Orando Broom

kitakyushu wrote: »

If that were the case (and I don't think that it is) then the uproar would have lasted approximately 5 minutes into their next start. As it is most people berating Green and McShane don't even see them at club level and are judging them purely on what they've seen them do for Ireland. Being a Celtic player wouldn't buy them too much time for Ireland if they were still as bad as they are out there for the national team.

Look at the clamour for Stokes. An ill-disciplined journeyman at best.

Ormus

AgileMyth wrote: »

There wasn't exactly uproar over Stoke's exclusion. Green and McShane are not good enough to be going to the Euros, doesn't matter what league you stick them in.

I'd have no problem with them going if they were the best options but they are not. Another terrible decision from our great leader.

But there were no great options. He hasn't left out any top class players. So what if he chose Green over some average player. Trap chose Green cos, like it or not, Trap plays a rigid system and demands discipline from his midfielders and has obviously been impressed with how Green has followed that system.

The fact that you or I have been less impressed is irrelevant. Do people really think that they are not alone a better judge of a footballer than Giovanni Trappatoni, but are even a better judge of what footballers fit into Giovanni Trappatoni's system than Giovanni Trappatoni himself?

If we were such footballing geniuses, wouldn't we be working as football managers, rather than holding forth on an internet forum?

kitakyushu

Orando Broom wrote: »

Look at the clamour for Stokes. An ill-disciplined journeyman at best.

Has there been a lot? TBH I can't remember hearing his name for a good while now (esp with the emergence of Walters and Cox at the start of the season).

boynesider

Paul Green epitomises everything Trap believes is needed in a player in order to operate his 'system'. He is very fit, hard working and honest and is therefore great in Traps eyes.

Having said all that, I hope that we won't need him at any stage. I think that Trap would be hoping this to

gnfnrhead

Ormus wrote: »

But there were no great options. He hasn't left out any top class players. So what if he chose Green over some average player. Trap chose Green cos, like it or not, Trap plays a rigid system and demands discipline from his midfielders and has obviously been impressed with how Green has followed that system.

The fact that you or I have been less impressed is irrelevant. Do people really think that they are not alone a better judge of a footballer than Giovanni Trappatoni, but are even a better judge of what footballers fit into Giovanni Trappatoni's system than Giovanni Trappatoni himself?

If we were such footballing geniuses, wouldn't we be working as football managers, rather than holding forth on an internet forum?

So if Trap decides to play Keane in goal, Given on the wing and McShane up front, we shouldn't question it because Trap did it? He's far from being above criticism like you seem to believe.

Orando Broom

gnfnrhead wrote: »

So if Trap decides to play Keane in goal, Given on the wing and McShane up front, we shouldn't question it because Trap did it? He's far from being above criticism like you seem to believe.

This is the stupidest of the strawman arguments I have ever seen on here. So utterly ludicrious it should result in a ban.

He is simply NEVER going to do that. In fact Trap has NEVER played a player out of position in his life.

The only thing he does is play the fullbacks on their percieved 'weaker' sides. They are still defenders and still fullbacks. Likewise with the wingers.

The reason, I believe he does this with the fullbacks is to stop them 'hitting the line'. If you are rightfooted playing on the right you are more inclined to sometimes take on your man on the outside. Fine if you're Evra or Alves but if you are Kilbane et al, not so cool. By playing the fullbacks weak to the outside they are more inclined towards a safety first mentality of getting rid of the ball to a diagonally central (Doyle) position as opposed the frankly suicidal mazy dribble up the centre from a wide position.

Also the defender has an inclination to push his man inside where esentially trap has set a 'bear-trap' (excuse the pun) of a covering fullback, a tracking winger and two deep lying midfielders. He prefers to deal with the pacey wide men on these terms as opposed to risking them breaking on the outside and getting crosses into the box.

G.K.

Except Keogh on the wing, but we'll gloss over that...

Orando Broom

G.K. wrote: »

Except Keogh on the wing, but we'll gloss over that...

He's done very well in the last, erm 20 odd games, hasn't he?

And for the record he has played as a winger at club level too. It's not like he's been used as a central midfielder by Trap. Keogh could play as a striker and a winger.

Ormus

gnfnrhead wrote: »

So if Trap decides to play Keane in goal, Given on the wing and McShane up front, we shouldn't question it because Trap did it? He's far from being above criticism like you seem to believe.

Well I can tell you right now that he will never do that, if he does you can print off these words and I will eat them with some fava beans.

In fact any proven manager is above criticism from you or I or anyone who has absolutely no expertise. If you are in fact a proven manager with 40 years experience then I apologise profusely.

It's ok to express an opinion for the sake of discussion, but lets remember that he is the enlightened one and we are the blind. People who say that his decisions are "disgraceful" or "shameful" must be living in some kind of fantasy Championship Manager world.

plasmaguy

The only reason McShane is going is we are desperately poor on cover for the centre backs but I don't think McShane will get a game, as we have a few others ahead of him, although who have been injured lately.

If all our centre backs were 100% fit, Foley would be going instead.

It's fair enough, Trap knows that in these types of competitions, if one or two of your centre backs get injured in a game, you can't throw in a smallish right back into the role.

Pro. F

Ormus wrote: »

But there were no great options. He hasn't left out any top class players. So what if he chose Green over some average player.

He has played Green instead of players who are incomparably better than him several times now. Players like Steven Reid, McCarthy and Wilson are so far above Green it's unreal. Only one of them fit and available now, but there is still one and he should have gone instead of Green.

Ormus wrote: »

Trap chose Green cos, like it or not, Trap plays a rigid system and demands discipline from his midfielders and has obviously been impressed with how Green has followed that system.

The fact that you or I have been less impressed is irrelevant. Do people really think that they are not alone a better judge of a footballer than Giovanni Trappatoni, but are even a better judge of what footballers fit into Giovanni Trappatoni's system than Giovanni Trappatoni himself?

If we were such footballing geniuses, wouldn't we be working as football managers, rather than holding forth on an internet forum?

Trap is not infallible. Your argument is invalid. If you are too afraid to think for yourself then you should stick to weather reports and injury updates.

boynesider

Pro. F wrote: »

He has played Green instead of players who are incomparably better than him several times now. Players like Steven Reid, McCarthy and Wilson are so far above Green it's unreal. Only one of them fit and available now, but there is still one and he should have gone instead of Green.



Trap is not infallible. Your argument is invalid. If you are too afraid to think for yourself then you should stick to weather reports and injury updates.

Of course he isn't infallible. But I still believe that he has done an incredible job with the group of players he is working with and therefore the decisions he makes deserves respect, even if they may be completely incompatible with your own logic.

He is a man with a plan and the actions he takes are designed solely to achieve this. I'm certain that if he felt that he could do a better job with this squad by including Wilson over Green, he would do just that. The only thing Trap wants is success

Pro. F

boynesider wrote: »

Of course he isn't infallible. But I still believe that he has done an incredible job with the group of players he is working with and therefore the decisions he makes deserves respect, even if they may be completely incompatible with your own logic.

He is a man with a plan and the actions he takes are designed solely to achieve this. I'm certain that if he felt that he could do a better job with this squad by including Wilson over Green, he would do just that. The only thing Trap wants is success

You've not really added anything there. This is a forum for discussion. Trap's decisions are up for discussion.

G.K.

Any good manager would have got to the Euros from that group/Estonia draw, if i'm frank. The defensive record is very good but it wasn't like there were two really strong countires in there with Ireland.

boynesider

Pro. F wrote: »

boynesider wrote: »

Of course he isn't infallible. But I still believe that he has done an incredible job with the group of players he is working with and therefore the decisions he makes deserves respect, even if they may be completely incompatible with your own logic.

He is a man with a plan and the actions he takes are designed solely to achieve this. I'm certain that if he felt that he could do a better job with this squad by including Wilson over Green, he would do just that. The only thing Trap wants is success

You've not really added anything there. This is a forum for discussion. Trap's decisions are up for discussion.

Oh right. Sorry about that. I'll just be quiet

darkman2

G.K. wrote: »

Any good manager would have got to the Euros from that group/Estonia draw, if i'm frank. The defensive record is very good but it wasn't like there were two really strong countires in there with Ireland.

Wasn't any strong teams with England either - I presume you think the same?:rolleyes: Teams that qualify are there on merit.

G.K.

Ireland deserve to be there, but it's not just because of Trap. In some cases it's in spite of some of his decisions.

briany

darkman2 wrote: »

Wasn't any strong teams with England either - I presume you think the same?:rolleyes: Teams that qualify are there on merit.

England were pretty unconvincing considering the draw that they got. It's lucky that they got the teams they did because they would have been hard run if they were in there with a strong second seed.

All teams except maybe the few top top teams have good fortune playing a part in their bid to qualify. You get a dangerous mixture of teams, a strong second seed, a tricky third and forth, a minnow with one or two outstanding players and a group is wide open. A top team draws away to a 4th seed, the 2nd seed draws home and away to the 1st, the 1st or 2nd seed flat out implodes and who knows what could happen? Likewise, you get a good team like England in there with a few ordinary ones and it ends up being fairly conclusive though they made hard work of it at times.

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

He has played Green instead of players who are incomparably better than him several times now. Players like Steven Reid, McCarthy and Wilson are so far above Green it's unreal. Only one of them fit and available now, but there is still one and he should have gone instead of Green.



Trap is not infallible. Your argument is invalid. If you are too afraid to think for yourself then you should stick to weather reports and injury updates.

The one player you think should have gone instead of Green has been playing as a left back all season and has never played in midfield for Ireland.

Even apart from that, he has shown questionable desire to play for Ireland in the past.

I don't understand your second comment. I never said or even implied that Trap is infallible. Where do you get that I'm afraid to think for myself?

People can and should feel free to voice their opinions here for the sake of discussion. Thats what this is all about. I just find it comic when people who have presumably never played or coached professional football speak confidently as if they actually know better than a man with 40 years of massively successful managerial experience.

Pro. F

Ormus wrote: »

The one player you think should have gone instead of Green has been playing as a left back all season and has never played in midfield for Ireland.

Even apart from that, he has shown questionable desire to play for Ireland in the past.

Wilson is certainly better able to play central midfield than Green. Green is an absolute disaster of a player. Even though Wilson has a season of playing fullback just gone he had already shown what he can do in the position and it is easy to see that he is miles better than Green.

The reason Wilson hasn't played enough for Ireland before now is because Trap hasn't called him up. It's a problem of Trap's own making.

Trap has said himself that he is not holding the crying off from international call ups issue against Wilson. There were problems between Trap and many players, not just Wilson, in that regard and Trap eventually clarified how he wanted the communication to be done from then on and he drew a line under the whole thing. Trap later said that he was excluding Wilson because of some other, unspecified, discipline issue and that Wilson needed to apologise before he would call him up. Wilson said that he didn't know what Trap was talking about and wanted to sort it out. Later the FAI released a statement that Trap was in fact not excluding Wilson and there were no disciplinary issues. Wilson has expressed his desire to play for the Republic several times. All evidence points to the issue being with Trap, his poor communication and contrariness causing problems again. Just as it has done with several other players.

Ormus wrote: »

I don't understand your second comment. I never said or even implied that Trap is infallible. Where do you get that I'm afraid to think for myself?

When people criticise Trap's decisions on this football discussion forum, you question the point of them doing so by pointing out that he is a professional manager and they are not. But that would only be a valid argument if Trap was infallible. Since he is not infallible your argument is invalid.

I get the impression that you are afraid to think for yourself because you talk as if professional managers decisions are above criticism.

Ormus wrote: »

People can and should feel free to voice their opinions here for the sake of discussion. Thats what this is all about. I just find it comic when people who have presumably never played or coached professional football speak confidently as if they actually know better than a man with 40 years of massively successful managerial experience.

Do you want everybody to preface every opinion they express on a managers decisions with ''Well I've never managed professionally myself, but...''?

People are just discussing a managers decisions on a football discussion forum. You need to be less precious about how people choose to express themselves.

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

Wilson is certainly better able to play central midfield than Green. Green is an absolute disaster of a player. Even though Wilson has a season of playing fullback just gone he had already shown what he can do in the position and it is easy to see that he is miles better than Green.

The reason Wilson hasn't played enough for Ireland before now is because Trap hasn't called him up. It's a problem of Trap's own making.

Trap has said himself that he is not holding the crying off from international call ups issue against Wilson. There were problems between Trap and many players, not just Wilson, in that regard and Trap eventually clarified how he wanted the communication to be done from then on and he drew a line under the whole thing. Trap later said that he was excluding Wilson because of some other, unspecified, discipline issue and that Wilson needed to apologise before he would call him up. Wilson said that he didn't know what Trap was talking about and wanted to sort it out. Later the FAI released a statement that Trap was in fact not excluding Wilson and there were no disciplinary issues. Wilson has expressed his desire to play for the Republic several times. All evidence points to the issue being with Trap, his poor communication and contrariness causing problems again. Just as it has done with several other players.


When people criticise Trap's decisions on this football discussion forum, you question the point of them doing so by pointing out that he is a professional manager and they are not. But that would only be a valid argument if Trap was infallible. Since he is not infallible your argument is invalid.

I get the impression that you are afraid to think for yourself because you talk as if professional managers decisions are above criticism.


Do you want everybody to preface every opinion they express on a managers decisions with ''Well I've never managed professionally myself, but...''?

People are just discussing a managers decisions on a football discussion forum. You need to be less precious about how people choose to express themselves.

I repeat again that he hasn't played midfield for Ireland ever, or even for his club this season. He simply could not be called in over someone who has done both. It does not work that way. Managers have methods.

Trap has said that Wilson is still part of his plans but all of the players who cried off internationals have taken a step down the pecking order as a result. It's consistent.

By the way I completely agree that Wilson is a better player and I wish that he had been capped for us more and in midfield and had recently played there at least for his club and hadn't cried off internationals in the past.

I have never suggested that professional managers are above criticism. I have specifically said that people can and should give their opinions on whatever they want. Thats what internet discussion forums are for.

There are plenty of people in the media who are or were professional footballers and or managers. They are entitled to hold forth and even denounce decisions of other managers if they wish. They have expertise on the subject matter.

We mere mortals on internet forums are only entitled to give our opinions. We know next to nothing about football compared to Giovanni Trapattoni, and only embarrass ourselves by pretending otherwise.

There is no need for people to preface their opinions with anything at all. It will be very clear from reading it whether they are just giving their 2 cents or they actually believe themselves to know better than Giovanni Trapattoni.

In the space of two posts you have said I'm afraid to think for myself, that I'm precious, and that I should stick to weather reporting, whatever that means. This seems to be your usual tone on this site. Would you be able to cut out the personal insults without lessening the impact of your argument? That would be classy.

Pro. F

Ormus wrote: »

I repeat again that he hasn't played midfield for Ireland ever, or even for his club this season. He simply could not be called in over someone who has done both. It does not work that way. Managers have methods.

Yes well done, repeat it again and ignore everything that is said to you. That's really helpful.

It was Trap's decision to not call up Wilson over the last year. If Trap had called him up and given him games then Wilson would be ready to go now. It is because of Trap that Green is going instead of Wilson.

Ormus wrote: »

Trap has said that Wilson is still part of his plans but all of the players who cried off internationals have taken a step down the pecking order as a result. It's consistent.

By the way I completely agree that Wilson is a better player and I wish that he had been capped for us more and in midfield and had recently played there at least for his club and hadn't cried off internationals in the past.

It's not consistent. It is anything but consistent. McCarthy got back into the squad after having communication problems with Trap and crying off friendlies. Trap has said specifically that he is not excluding Wilson from the squad because of crying off from the friendlies but for some other, unspecified, disciplinary issue. Then the FAI released a statement saying that Trap wasn't excluding Wilson from the squad at all. This is not some consistent form of punishment for him having cried off from the friendlies.

Ormus wrote: »

I have never suggested that professional managers are above criticism. I have specifically said that people can and should give their opinions on whatever they want. Thats what internet discussion forums are for.

There are plenty of people in the media who are or were professional footballers and or managers. They are entitled to hold forth and even denounce decisions of other managers if they wish. They have expertise on the subject matter.

We mere mortals on internet forums are only entitled to give our opinions. We know next to nothing about football compared to Giovanni Trapattoni, and only embarrass ourselves by pretending otherwise.

There is no need for people to preface their opinions with anything at all. It will be very clear from reading it whether they are just giving their 2 cents or they actually believe themselves to know better than Giovanni Trapattoni.

But when people do give opinions that disagree with what a manager has done you immediately jump up with ''But theys are the professionals!'' Your fawning at even the opinions expressed by pundits now is really pathetic. Forming and expressing opinions honestly means that sometimes people will strongly disagree with (maybe even denounce, heaven forbid!) a manager's decisions. If you think people on an internet forum aren't entitled to do that, and that the press are, I really don't give a fúck. You just come across as a completely worthless contributor who is incapable of forming your own opinions and are happy to just regurgitate the opinions of others.

Ormus wrote: »

In the space of two posts you have said I'm afraid to think for myself, that I'm precious, and that I should stick to weather reporting, whatever that means. This seems to be your usual tone on this site. Would you be able to cut out the personal insults without lessening the impact of your argument? That would be classy.

I enjoy having a decent debate on this site and I respect a lot of posters on here and treat them with respect. There are also plenty of posters, like you, who sometimes post drivel and then just repeat that drivel and ignore counter points when anybody argues with them. I'm not going to waste my time by trying to handle your argument delicately. It doesn't deserve it.