Injustice- Gods Among Us discussion thread

D4RK ONION

As a "SF guy", I think the game will be pretty solid with some balancing. It flows pretty well (minus the *goddamn* transitions) and it's fun in small doses. It's no SF killer though

bush

Best game with a pig in it ever

Jun_DP101

We're streaming some injustice casuals twitch.tv/nutrient16

Forest Demon

deathrider wrote: »

Ok, so I haven't been playing this game, and I don't reckon I will. It's just not really catching me. So, I haven't been mooching through this thread much since release day. I was just wondering what people's views are on it, now that it's been out a while and people had time to get used to it. Does it hold up against MK? What do the SF boys think of it? Has any character been reduced to broken yet? Just wondering really.

I did not like it at first but have found myself playing it alot now. Most of the BS stuff that annoyed me at the start I don't really notice. Its a game heavily dependent on match ups as far as I can see. Its important to play more than one character. That is a good thing really.

Some of the so called low tier characters are actually really good. I have played some amazing players online using the full cast. I was getting frustrated trying to get into zoning characters but now I just counter pick against deathstroke, sinestro and green lantern with Raven or superman and its all good. I am too lazy to learn long combos for loads of characters but I can still hold my own with most online with tactics and mixups. I even beat the number one player ranked person a couple of times on PSN using Lobo as most people don't know the matchup at all. Lobo is good a short to mid range and completely useless at long range. Bane and Luthor are beasts in the right hands.

I am maining Lobo, Raven and starting to use Aquaman a bit. Like MK a lot of people play a few different characters because of the need to counterpick.

The game is definitely worth giving a go. At first I really did not like it but I am not really playing anything else at the moment.

Bento Sento

So the rumours were true. Scorpion is in. Thoughts gentlemen.

Fergus_

Best intro.

Forest Demon

For his teleport alone he will good for dealing with zoners

1man3letters

dont like the re-design costume
they seem to have kept ALOT from his mk9 build,even his vortex lol
apart from new throw,
having to use meter to combo of spear,
new super animation
mk9 b2 being switched to b3
and his mk9 f3 now launching in this,
seems not far off the mk9 scorpion,same strings,same specials,same combos.

that tele a mid too so not many crossup bs will happen with it,
wonder when he's bein released?
that superman man looks cool but he already has more than enough,fill out the chars that dont have 3 yet

Kuro Tao

Bento Sento wrote: »

So the rumours were true. Scorpion is in. Thoughts gentlemen.

CALLED IT.

Jun_DP101

Kuro Tao wrote: »

CALLED IT.

it was leaked ages ago

deathrider

D4RK ONION wrote: »

As a "SF guy", I think the game will be pretty solid with some balancing. It flows pretty well (minus the *goddamn* transitions) and it's fun in small doses. It's no SF killer though

Forest Demon wrote: »

I did not like it at first but have found myself playing it alot now. Most of the BS stuff that annoyed me at the start I don't really notice. Its a game heavily dependent on match ups as far as I can see. Its important to play more than one character. That is a good thing really.

Some of the so called low tier characters are actually really good. I have played some amazing players online using the full cast. I was getting frustrated trying to get into zoning characters but now I just counter pick against deathstroke, sinestro and green lantern with Raven or superman and its all good. I am too lazy to learn long combos for loads of characters but I can still hold my own with most online with tactics and mixups. I even beat the number one player ranked person a couple of times on PSN using Lobo as most people don't know the matchup at all. Lobo is good a short to mid range and completely useless at long range. Bane and Luthor are beasts in the right hands.

I am maining Lobo, Raven and starting to use Aquaman a bit. Like MK a lot of people play a few different characters because of the need to counterpick.

The game is definitely worth giving a go. At first I really did not like it but I am not really playing anything else at the moment.

Cool. Nice to see the game getting a good reception. It was bound to stike a good chord with most of the MK heads, but it's cool that it's going out a bit further than that.

bush wrote: »

Best game with a pig in it ever

Emboar Disagrees


Oh, and as for Scorpion- nice to see his Hell Kick is back.

1man3letters

v1.04 changes
http://testyourmight.com/threads/v1-04-injustice-patch-notes.33748/

pretty much flash got buffed,
kf got nerfed,
hawkgirl was "nerfed" (aka wont change anything about the punishing the move)

1st wakeup frame fixed (so at least gl doesnt get free b1s after lift anymore)
fixed alot of (but not all) of incorrect frame data.

scorpion can be used by season pass holders cause of a **** up but will go on sale 6/11 in US, so we prob get it 7th

(zod announcement should be coming this week or e3 also)

Nutrient

Human players can now correctly perform a wakeup on the first available frame.

ffs

1man3letters

Nutrient wrote: »

Human players can now correctly perform a wakeup on the first available frame.

ffs

yep all wakeups were coming out on the 2nd frame and messing **** up

im still really pissed they havnt done anything to tweak the added 1+2 as interactbale, im sick of grundys 112 string and batgirls 212 string coming out as 1~interactable and 2-interactable, even cyborg gets it bad cause he uses 112 good bit (well i do).
any string with 112,212,122 can be messed up because of this, its annoying as hell.


also any change/fix that happens up until zod comes out was a change planned before release,or so the story goes

Fergus_

Harley got stealth nerfed hahahaha

Cartwheel is now -7 instead of -6 so characters with 7f normals can now punish her and the punish is a lot easier for 6f normal characters, this was one thing she had going for her in certain matchups where chars couldn't punish her TS.

I hate this game, I really do.

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

Harley got stealth nerfed hahahaha

Cartwheel is now -7 instead of -6 so characters with 7f normals can now punish her and the punish is a lot easier for 6f normal characters, this was one thing she had going for her in certain matchups where chars couldn't punish her TS.

I hate this game, I really do.

well seeing as it was marked at what -23 before im guessing they just fixed the frame data to what it really is, was alot of start menu frame data fixes.
was prob always -7, i just took -6 as right because a tester said it in a day 1 harley vid.

still think your being a bit harsh on poor harley and sure if she really needs help, she get buffed when they start patching the game for real instead of stuff already planned which happening now....

if they made b22,b121 complete block strings
her trait selectable
and maybe,MAYBE take a few frames of f2

then i think she would be a beast,maybe all that bit too greedy i dunno

Fergus_

It was definitely -6 before, I tested it with 7f jabs for ages before the patch and nothing, it's definitely -7 now and this changes up quite a few matchups and not in a good way.

And she definitely needs help, I think she's bottom 5 in this game and this nerf just solidified it.

But I'm not gonna say anymore on it anyway cuz it's just gonna end up messy.

So how's Scorpion?

Jun_DP101

Fergus_ wrote: »

It was definitely -6 before, I tested it with 7f jabs for ages before the patch and nothing, it's definitely -7 now and this changes up quite a few matchups and not in a good way.

And she definitely needs help, I think she's bottom 5 in this game and this nerf just solidified it.

But I'm not gonna say anymore on it anyway cuz it's just gonna end up messy.

So how's Scorpion?

stop crying and adapt

Fergus_

The hatred I contain for you at this very moment is immense.

Jun_DP101

harley only s tier now imo T.T

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

It was definitely -6 before, I tested it with 7f jabs for ages before the patch and nothing, it's definitely -7 now and this changes up quite a few matchups and not in a good way.

And she definitely needs help, I think she's bottom 5 in this game and this nerf just solidified it.

But I'm not gonna say anymore on it anyway cuz it's just gonna end up messy.

So how's Scorpion?

dunno, only season pass people got him early, i gotta wait till next week.
lar thinks hes garbage,luke thinks hes ok so ill wait till i get my hands on him.

then must of double ****ed up fixing data cause neither a 7 frame special or normal will punish it,so still seems like it -6, maybe theres a certaint way it hits were its -7 but in real world play its -6. so no changes have happened to TS~1

bottom 5? i dunno, game still pretty new so all opinions valid really.
ive worked out my opinion on the top ones so far,not so much the bottom.

yea she prob could do with a bit of help,i dunno, i guess paulo will decide.
but she does have some ok tools atm,
very good jump normals,
near highest projectile on hit frames in game and also near lowest minus frames on same projectile.
one of the highest damage % with no meter midscreen combos(excluding trait)
one of the best corner carry chars after doomsday
two invincible wakeups where most have 1.
plus shes very annoying which does help at making people mad and doing stupid stuff lol

i dunno,your playing her more than me at the min so maybe you have more of a right to complain than i do, shes like my 3rd char atm behind grundy/frost,
both of which have been nerfed since release:(, grundys unclashable damage being taken away and frost not being able to do a 50/50 off a dagger ender combo now,
but thats what i like about this game, i have no connection to chars like i do baraka/mileena so i can throw them in the garbage and take them back out again as i see fit, thats a nice luxury to have
(except aquaman/gl i didnt like them before game was out so i not touching them,one talks to fishes and the other a man obsessed with jewelry,not chars for me)

Fergus_

GL's jab couldn't punish it before patch, it can now, so the advantage has definitely been changed, and frame data says it's -7 anyway.

Gunshots can be ducked though and it's easy enough to dash under cupcake to punish her, pop pop and cupcake has a lot of recovery, her zoning isn't that great compared to a lot of characters I feel.

Her wakeup play doctor can be ducked, I'll give you the meterless damage and corner carry, but that requires her hitting the opponent.

More the fact that they keep nerfing her when she's not even good and leaving most other chars untouched, swear NRS has something in it for this character.

Plus gunshots only do like 4% on hit and very little on block.

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

GL's jab couldn't punish it before patch, it can now, so the advantage has definitely been changed, and frame data says it's -7 anyway.

Gunshots can be ducked though and it's easy enough to dash under cupcake to punish her, pop pop and cupcake has a lot of recovery, her zoning isn't that great compared to a lot of characters I feel.

Her wakeup play doctor can be ducked, I'll give you the meterless damage and corner carry, but that requires her hitting the opponent.

More the fact that they keep nerfing her when she's not even good and leaving most other chars untouched, swear NRS has something in it for this character.

a 7 frame special wont punish on reversal it so i dunno what to say.i re-check

yea but 90% of the projectiles in game can be ducked and most dont have they frame advantage hers do.
pop pop has 0 frame recovery if u use meter,plus it can make a unblockable if that move had faster recovery it could be broken.
cupcake is a aa where if u guess wrong your punished,its fair,since it can be used as combo ender also.
she a hybrid of rushdown and zoning so she doesnt do either as great as pure rushdown/pure zoners but i think she has alot of options others in the cast dont

if they duck you play doctor isnt that them making a read?
why shouldnt they be rewarded with a punish?

Fergus_

1man3letters wrote: »

a 7 frame special wont punish on reversal it so i dunno what to say.i re-check

yea but 90% of the projectiles in game can be ducked and most dont have they frame advantage hers do.
pop pop has 0 frame recovery if u use meter,plus it can make a unblockable if that move had faster recovery it could be broken.
cupcake is a aa where if u guess wrong your punished,its fair,since it can be used as combo ender also.
she a hybrid of rushdown and zoning so she doesnt do either as great as pure rushdown/pure zoners but i think she has alot of options others in the cast dont

if they duck you play doctor isnt that them making a read?
why shouldnt they be rewarded with a punish?

It takes a really long time for it to get to unblockable stage though, where the opponent can use that time to close the gap almost the whole way and possibly even punish her before she fires it off, and there's a chance that the gun backfires as well leaving her wide open to a punish. And it's not as if she gets anything off the unblockable anyway. Not worth doing imo.

A lot of characters have projectiles that can cover the aerial approach pretty well as well as the ground, Green Lantern, Cyborg, Aquaman, Ares, Raven, Superman are ones off top of my head, I don't see why Harley has to commit to them jumping to hit with cupcake when they don't have to.

Her rushdown isn't great though, it's almost non existent, she has a character specific 50/50 in the corner which requires her to end her combo pretty early to go for it and it requires her to hit the opponent which is extremely hard to do with her because she struggles to open people up with a lot of her stuff being highs (and them low blocking vs her), a very reactable overhead (I can block this online, don't see why anyone can't offline) and her good stuff all being low, and she's a bit unsafe as well, she doesn't have a lot of strings that gives her + on block. And her zoning is just barely average compared to everyone else. On paper, Harley has ok tools, but in comparison to everyone else in the game, she really isn't that great.

But then again, complete bias, someone could find some sick legit 50/50 with her that works on everyone consistently (like a good few chars can do now already)

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

It takes a really long time for it to get to unblockable stage though, where the opponent can use that time to close the gap almost the whole way and possibly even punish her before she fires it off, and there's a chance that the gun backfires as well leaving her wide open to a punish. And it's not as if she gets anything off the unblockable anyway. Not worth doing imo.

A lot of characters have projectiles that can cover the aerial approach pretty well as well as the ground, Green Lantern, Cyborg, Aquaman, Ares, Raven, Superman are ones off top of my head, I don't see why Harley has to commit to them jumping to hit with cupcake when they don't have to.

Her rushdown isn't great though, it's almost non existent, she has a character specific 50/50 in the corner which requires her to end her combo pretty early to go for it and it requires her to hit the opponent which is extremely hard to do with her because she struggles to open people up with a lot of her stuff being highs (and them low blocking vs her), a very reactable overhead (I can block this online, don't see why anyone can't offline) and her good stuff all being low, and she's a bit unsafe as well, she doesn't have a lot of strings that gives her + on block. And her zoning is just barely average compared to everyone else. On paper, Harley has ok tools, but in comparison to everyone else in the game, she really isn't that great.

But then again, complete bias, someone could find some sick legit 50/50 with her that works on everyone consistently (like a good few chars can do now already)

so you want harley to have the same risk/reward zoning options as cyborg/raven/ares?
if that happened they would have to nerf her rushdown to the ground,
mk9 baraka v1.0 to the ground.
she doesnt have to commit to cupcake just that is the risk/reward if she does, her air to air is good enough for aa and even then air pistols can control the air to some degree. her d2 ok in some mus, in others un-useable


yea thats what i was saying, her rushdown isnt super but chars with better rushdown dont have the zoning options she has,too say her rushdown is almost non-exsitent is way off imo man.
use f22/f23 mixups if they can block the overhead,you dont have to do b2~ts/f2~ts. yes it most rewarding but she cant just 50/50 all day and hope they guess wrong....thats frosts/batgirls deals.

as i see harley right now, her zoning is an annoyance to make you want to come to her, from sweep range is were she gets to play her game of getting damage and carrying your ass to the corner to start her corner stuff.
when compared to superman/ba/batman it looks tame sure but not every car can be top 5

Fergus_

A2A isn't really a proper AA though, more pre-emptive.

Air Gunshots isn't really great for covering aerial space, they only cover the diagonal area in front of her, not the space in front of her. And air gunshots is unsafe on block anyway unless you hit their toes.

How is she gonna get damage at sweep range though if they're just happy to low block vs her? I don't see f22/f23 as a mixup? F22 is unsafe mid and f2,3 is a high and f2 itself is really slow with no range and very easy to interrupt.

She gets outzoned easily in quite a few matchups and her rushdown isn't great either to back it up. I would happily weaken her zoning tools for a viable rushdown because it really isn't good now lol. Too free to low block. There's quite a few characters that zone better than Harley and even have sick rushdown to back it up (Green Lantern being a main example). I'd rather have a really good rushdown or a really good zoning than be average at zoning and **** at rushdown.

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

A2A isn't really a proper AA though, more pre-emptive.

Air Gunshots isn't really great for covering aerial space, they only cover the diagonal area in front of her, not the space in front of her. And air gunshots is unsafe on block anyway unless you hit their toes.

How is she gonna get damage at sweep range though if they're just happy to low block vs her? I don't see f22/f23 as a mixup? F22 is unsafe mid and f2,3 is a high and f2 itself is really slow with no range and very easy to interrupt.

She gets outzoned easily in quite a few matchups and her rushdown isn't great either to back it up. I would happily weaken her zoning tools for a viable rushdown because it really isn't good now lol. Too free to low block. There's quite a few characters that zone better than Harley and even have sick rushdown to back it up (Green Lantern being a main example). I'd rather have a really good rushdown or a really good zoning than be average at zoning and **** at rushdown.

with most chars jumps you can air to air on reaction, especially if your normal is 5 frames, sure look at ares,not a aa to speak off and yet u cant jump at him all day.

f22/f23 are special cancelable so you can mixup up of last hit cancels and bounce cancel for if they try get cheeky at poking any frame gaps.

yea alot of chars get zoned out, whats the problem with that? shes not a anti zoner or strong enough zoner to outzone DS/ares/cyborg, the rest of the cast has those problems aswell, not just harley.

if there just blocking low all day,do overheads to make them stop.worst thing that happens is they block it and you get a mix up on the block string. you cant just walk up to people and get free damage, at sweep range b2 whiff punishes so much stuff.
Gl latern is one of the best in the game imo, so like i mentioned eariler if you compare harley to him,superman,ba of course her tools seem weak but shes not as bad as your making out imo.

if harley got better options in all air control, rushdown, zoning, anti-zoning like u mentioned,shed be kabal in a dress

Fergus_

Nearly rest of the cast has something good to play with upclose (much easier and effective mixups) though if they can't outzone them, she doesn't.

I don't see what she can mixup them up with after blocked f2, another f2? I don't really understand what you mean by bounce cancels, cancel the string into another reactable f+2? Or special cancel it into something like pop pop which does nothing or TS which everyone will block anyway by blocking high then low vs her f2. I just don't think people are used to the matchup at all and get hit by her gimmicks, I had a mirror match set with a Harley online and I found her really easy to deal with.

I'm not saying give her everything, I'm just saying to improve her upclose game at least give her more range on f2, make 112 jail, give her 2d3 advantage (+5/6) and give her f+3 a better hitbox so it doesn't whiff upclose all the time.

Also her trait is basically useless lol.

I don't think this discussion is going anywhere tbh lol, we obviously have very different opinions on her, I'm gonna leave it at that.

1man3letters

Fergus_ wrote: »

Nearly rest of the cast has something good to play with upclose (much easier and effective mixups) though if they can't outzone them, she doesn't.

I don't see what she can mixup them up with after blocked f2, another f2? I don't really understand what you mean by bounce cancels, cancel the string into another reactable f+2? Or special cancel it into something like pop pop which does nothing or TS which everyone will block anyway by blocking high then low vs her f2. I just don't think people are used to the matchup at all and get hit by her gimmicks, I had a mirror match set with a Harley online and I found her really easy to deal with.

I'm not saying give her everything, I'm just saying to improve her upclose game at least give her more range on f2, make 112 jail, give her 2d3 advantage (+5/6) and give her f+3 a better hitbox so it doesn't whiff upclose all the time.

Also her trait is basically useless lol.

I don't think this discussion is going anywhere tbh lol, we obviously have very different opinions on her, I'm gonna leave it at that.

please dont take this of what i said as me trying to argue your wrong or that im trying to convince you of anything, just discussing a char with someone else who uses her
like i said its early days so every opposing opinion could be right and like said also youve been using her more so maybe you opinion more valid on the situation

with the f22/f23 i mean do f22~special/f23~special,
you can have different mixups then,there are frames gaps between f22*~special so when u read they going to poke use f22/f23~ff+mb to blow there **** up into a laucher.
no its not a super good way to go about damage but it keeps the opponent guessing more,maybe not between high/low but still guessing

yea id take the 112 jailing 1st on the list of the things you mentioned there and like said i think her trait should be selectable,it be useful then

Fergus_

Ah I just wasn't sure of the tone lol, I was just simply discussing as well.

Well I'm still a bit hopeful for her, she does have some untapped potential but current state, not a great character but we'll see how she pans out in the future.

Just not a fan of the constant balance changes, they really need to let the game settle.

Good discussion btw