The 'I feel like Im never going to get into Medicine' Thread

FairytaleGirl

Humphhhhh

Anyone else feel this way?

I would LOVE to get into the Grad programme at RCSI. Its my dream. But alas a dream it will always be - as I have a 2:2 Arts degree.

I did WOEFULLY in the HPAT this year, and although nothings final, my distinctly empty mailbox tells me Ive been unsucessful for entry as a mature student.

Im going to sit the GAMSAT in March and use it to apply to the 3 UK schools that will take me on their GEP, but Id still way rather study in Ireland.

I guess i'll sit the HPAT again next year too and give mature med a crack - but right now at the not so fresh age of 24, Im feeling so very very disheartened.

So I just started this thread for anyone that wants to vent - about anything med applicant related, from crappy results, to the unfairness of Leaving Certers whos parents can afford to pay their fees/tutors/digs for med school while your sleeping outside the banks hoping for them to take pity/ trying to keep a pending stomach ulcer under control while mentally calculating paying back a 100k loan.

Just need some cheering up I guess, either that or misery loves company :P

Dee

Albection

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

the not so fresh age of 24, Im feeling so very very disheartened

I really wouldn't worry about this. A friend of mine was only 27 when she started and is now only a year away from graduating, a guy I know was 34 ish and then a woman I know was 43 when she started.

Jessibelle

Fairytalegirl, d'ya mind me asking is it your first time applying?? I applied twice ) and managed to get in the second time round. It was a case of spending a year fixing what was 'off' with my application though (mainly in my case it was interview confidence, I speak really really quietly ). I'm in my 30's so 24 is hardly ancient and I personally know folk who started late 30's, 40's and 50's and have all been sucessful/are currently studying sucessfully so I wouldn't worry about the age too much Also, an extra year does mean an extra year to save for fees? *she says optimistically*?

TC80

Can I just offer one or two observations, based on nearly a decade as a doctor.

To the OP and all prospective medical students. Don't make getting in to medicine your everest, your four-minute-mile. Whether you get it or not, the sun will still come up tomorrow morning and there will be a whole new set of joys and challenges. In medicine, and other areas in life, every hurdle you jump puts you on the bottom rung of a new ladder. And those of you who follow the medical press will realise the number of ladders is being increased all the time.

Always, always, always be as defined by what you do outside medicine as what you do inside it. This applies as much to the first year student as to the senior consultant. This involves making sacrifices and compromises. The most dedicated, committed, saintly doctors are sadly often those who are the most psychologically burdened. Dig deeper ad you'll find a lot of pain in their personal lives, believe me. And a large part of tlit is because they lost that balance and the ability to draw boundaries.

The reason I am online at 2 am is because of something that happened at work today. After busting a gut working for a very sick patient all week I was on the receiving end of a volley of abuse today from 6 of his family members. The criticism was deeply personal and unjustified. I will have worked 94 hours by the end of this week, as well as having written two papers for submission to journals. To do all that and be accused of not making an effort hurts. And the kicker is that in the current climate you can't really argue back and defend yourself, unless you fancy a trip to the medical council and being a front page star of deeply distorted headlines on every paper in Ireland. You can only sit there meekly and apologise for things you never did. I feel like an idiot for hyping myself up so much back 14 years ago to get into med school. I can't sleep for thinking about it. Do I
regret studying medicine? No. What I do regret is losing balance in my life. I regret allowing myself to be defined by my work. I deeply regret staying in this country.

I hope all of you get into med school and make a better fist of a life in medicine than I have but please never lose sight of the fact that as a human being you are worth a whole lot more than life as a junior doctor will allow you to believe you are. Good luck in your exams.

FairytaleGirl

First time Jessibelle, Yes, but I didnt even get an interview! So I know I need to work on my Entry Requirements (HPAT/GAMSAT).

I thought my Personal Statement was grand, and I had 4 good references with a total of 8months experience in hospitals and care homes.

Im just tired I think!

TC80 - Thanks for that, what an important point to mention, the consultant I shadowed said nearly the sme thing. Bad days come in all forms in every profession - I guess doctors have more to feel indignant about though.

Abby19

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

First time Jessibelle, Yes, but I didnt even get an interview! So I know I need to work on my Entry Requirements (HPAT/GAMSAT).

I thought my Personal Statement was grand, and I had 4 good references with a total of 8months experience in hospitals and care homes.

Im just tired I think!

FairytaleGirl - a few quick questions and pointers about applications. You may have all of these covered, but I have heard of a few who hadn't, so just in case ...

Just wondering did you meet all the matriculation requirements for entry? It looks as though you are from Derry?
For TCD the Advanced GCE (A-Level) requirements are Grade B + Grade C In two of physics, chemistry or biology. If you do not have a qualification in physics you must present GCSE mathematics at grade B or better. This could vary in other colleges.

If you are going in as an undergraduate or mature you still need to meet the matriculation requirements, e.g. certain grades in Chemistry and Biology, etc. I know some people who applied and didn't have two sciences in the LC, but assumed that as they had a science degree, that would suffice. It doesn't. It is a bit like the 2:1 requirement for Grad Med, regardless of higher degrees, e.g. Masters and PhDs.
I know quite a few people with degrees who have sat or are sitting LC Chemistry and/or Biology to meet the requirements. I also know of someone with a degree who went back and repeated the entire leaving cert and got in with LC and HPAT as undergraduate.

Also you can tailor your applications for each of the colleges a bit. At least that is what I was told when I applied.
TCD only accept their supplemental application form. You need to apply through the CAO, but they don't look at your application, so you can focus on UCD/UCC/RCSI who do. Though RCSI also asks for a separate submission. TCD at the time did not accept references, and I was told that even if I attached my references to my application they would not be copied or provided to the interviewers.

Lastly in the mature part of the CAO form I found it very difficult to try and paint myself in any positive light with the formatting limitations of an online form. So the first couple of sections on academic record and qualifications, etc., I filled out online, but for the CV part, I prepared various documents in Word and put something like. 'Please see separate document sent by post.' into the application form. That way my work experience and stuff like that I could format properly and make my application a bit more professional looking.
I did the same for the TCD form as well. Filled the first few pages by hand (they do like to see some handwriting apparently) and for the latter bits I attached typed up sections. It also meant I could include more info on a typed page than an handwritten one.

I helped out at some of the mature student evenings and these were some of the common questions that came up. And I know this approach has worked for others applying for mature medicine.

As for age - there is currently an intern in their late 50s/early 60s in Tallaght hospital. Most of the North Americans who come over to study Medicine have undergraduate degrees, so you would be at the younger end of their age range. Medicine is 4-6 years, then intern year, then SHO training (2-3 years), SPR training (3-5 years), so it is a long slog if it is not what you really want. GP is 4 years after intern year assuming you get on a training scheme.

Many people are not successful on their first application - it is heartbreaking, but really, really common.

If you have any further questions feel free to PM me. If you want you could send me on your application and I'll give you feedback.

Jessibelle

I had actually written out something similar to Abby19 to post but she says it so much better than me It corresponds fairly similarly to my own application experience, and likewise if you fancy me throwing an eye over your application let me know. I may not get back to you immediately (I'm working odd hours at the moment) but I will get back.

ThatDrGuy

Abby19 wrote: »

As for age - there is currently an intern in their late 50s/early 60s in Tallaght hospital. Most of the North Americans who come over to study Medicine have undergraduate degrees, so you would be at the younger end of their age range. Medicine is 4-6 years, then intern year, then SHO training (2-3 years), SPR training (3-5 years), so it is a long slog if it is not what you really want. GP is 4 years after intern year assuming you get on a training scheme.

Many people are not successful on their first application - it is heartbreaking, but really, really common.

If you have any further questions feel free to PM me. If you want you could send me on your application and I'll give you feedback.

Medical training is a lot longer than implied here. Intern 1 year, sho 2-3 years, reg no mans land 1- infinity years, research MD / PHD (essentially mandatory these days ) 2-4 years, spr training (if you can get on scheme ) 4 -5 years, fellowship 1 - 2 years, so think about 14 years. Then a few years to forever overseas waiting for consultancy post to open up. Believe me you do not want to be doing call in your mid thirties. The older intern in tallaght was a disaster from what ive heard. Why are you shadowing a consultant ? Go shadow an SHO doing a sat - monday shift in some pit of hell like wexford. That will give you a much better idea of what the next 2 decades of your life will be like.

caroline1111

If you're serious about getting into medicine and are focused and committed, your best bet with a 2.2 undergrad is to redo the leaving cert and HPAT. I know people who went back and did the whole thing in one year and are now in medicine, theres no reason why you couldn't too.

FairytaleGirl

Im from the North, can I still sit the LC? I did 9 GCSEs in 2004, its different up here, I dont think you can do all the subjects at once in a HE college.

Abby19

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

Im from the North, can I still sit the LC? I did 9 GCSEs in 2004, its different up here, I dont think you can do all the subjects at once in a HE college.

I don't know if you can sit the LC, but you could check with the State Examinations Commission http://www.examinations.ie/ There looks to be an option to register as an external candidate, though it is closed at the moment.

You say you did GCSEs, did you do A-Levels? It looks like only A and AS levels count toward the CAO points. I am not as familiar with that system but perhaps you could get on to your local schools/colleges and see what they say.

An applicant’s score will be calculated on the basis of either of the following:
1 their best 4 GCE Advanced level (A2) subjects from one academic year
OR
2 their best 3 GCE Advanced level (A2) subjects from one academic year plus one Advanced Subsidiary level (AS) in a different subject from the same or the preceding academic year only.

Jessibelle

Anyone can sit the Leaving Cert as an external candidate once the fees are paid and the candidate is 17 years on or before 31 July of the year of examination. Just be aware it's at least 6 subjects and you have to have the matriculation subjects in one sitting (that'd be English, Maths and a European language (you'd be exempt from having to do Irish specifically as you'd be counted as an EU applicant). HTH

Joeyjoejoe83

I've just finished first year at the ripe age of 28, age is not a problem...except trying to keep up with the 19 year olds and their ability to instantly recover from a night on the sauce...I'm at the three day hangover stage!
My advice is follow every piece of information on here, I would not be in medicine without listening and using tips an information I received, particularly from Jessibelle. Being intelligent is not enough, all applicants are intelligent, your no longer the big fish in the small pond. Keep plugging away, you sound like you have the experience so I think a quick look at your application, cover letter and CV would make a huge difference. As for the HPAT, I'd see if a tutor can help, even just one session will make a difference.
Finally, dont be afraid to ask or accept help, since I've got in I've about a dozen people asking for advice on work experience, showing me their CV and applications and asking me for interviews advice, and both myself and my classmates have no problem doing it because we all remember someone did it for us!

FairytaleGirl

Thanks for all the info guys - The matriculation requirementa is a good one actually, Im going to go back over everything and contact the individual colleges to be sure.

I'd love to get feedback on my PS this year actually. although I only have the one from RCSI. The seperate one sent with my CAO was on my USB that I lost

I got AS Levels - AAU - the U was in Dance and Anatomy and the whole class was failed by the examiner

A Levels - BCD - English Lit/Drama and Theatre and the D in D&A as I had to improve from a U grade.

Not Excellent at all

Jessibelle

Ah, you need a lab science subject so Would you consider doing an Access to Science course if one's available in any Uni near to you? It'd give you a good grounding in maths biology/chemisty/physics, and some of them are accredited to Level 6 (just above leaving cert on the National Qualifications so I'd assume similarly for A levels?). I know they're considered very well for mature applicants, but I'm not sure how they apply regarding standard entry.

FairytaleGirl

The only Access to Science here take two years to do, and I dont know to what level they are either :O

Sunnygrl

Hi Fairytalegirl
I am in a similar boat to you- applying as mature student and feeling like you are getting nowhere! Age does not bother me that much, but what I do not get is what they are looking for in an application.
I have wanted to do medicine since my first year in college, but as i was already in a good course I decided to see it through, just maybe it would work out. I completed a degree as an occupational therapist and worked as one in various settings for 10 years now. Want to do medicine even more now that I know the system. Also now in financial position to pay for course.
My first degree is a 2:1, but does not get recognised here as one as the standards of universities apparently vary. master degree does not count.So GAMSAT is not an option. So tried mature entry - had 5 science subjects in equivalent to LC and got A in each, as well as higher level maths. Would struggle sitting Irish LC as did not do EU language. Did ok in HPAT.
Thought my personal statements were good and had great references, but alas no luck at all. Not sure what to do as the only thing that I can change is personal statement and references.
Moan over.

dtfo

For improving your hpat I would suggest going through the sample papers and making sure you understand each question and how the answer is correct. If you cant figure out any you can pm me , although I only have the second sample with me. Oh and probably not section 2 as its my weakest.

Other than that I would strongly suggest doing a prep course. This one http://www.medstart.com.au/ is imo the best. Altough I didnt sign up as I only found out about it a few weeks before the exam. The practice sections alone are invaluable

FairytaleGirl

I might actually go for the prep course this year - as I had my friends stuff from her course to study for mine - past papers etc and still got an awful 145. Although I did only study for 2 weeks, but still.

Its all money money money.

Not everyone is loaded

PS: dtfo - are the UMAT and HPAT the same?

dtfo

Ive never seen a UMAT paper. From the prep courses Ive seen though theyre pretty identical in sections 1 and 3 , and less so in 2. afaik the same Australian company set both papers.

I think if you have your friends notes,use the free part of that site and go over the sample papers then a course isnt going to be hugely beneficial

FairytaleGirl

If I sat an Acess to Science course at UCD or another College would that enable me to skip the pre med year?

Jessibelle

It does allow you to skip premed in UCD if you get above 70% on average in your exams (There's a lot of continuous assessment though so it's not as pressurised as it sounds), TCD don't have a premed, and I don't know regarding UCC or RCSI. I know TCD do take the results in lieu of Leaving Cert results for maltriculation purposes not points, as the end award is a Fetac Level 6 (I think) so 65% or above in Chemistry for example is the equivilant of a B or above in Higher Leaving Cert Chemistry. I did the UCD one, (I know Trinity also un their own course), and really can't reccommend it enough, very supportive staff and a very good course layout, even coming from a science background, I learnt an awful lot, and it did prepare me well for heading back.

SeeTea

Jessibelle wrote: »

It does allow you to skip premed in UCD if you get above 70% on average in your exams (There's a lot of continuous assessment though so it's not as pressurised as it sounds), TCD don't have a premed, and I don't know regarding UCC or RCSI. I know TCD do take the results in lieu of Leaving Cert results for maltriculation purposes not points, as the end award is a Fetac Level 6 (I think) so 65% or above in Chemistry for example is the equivilant of a B or above in Higher Leaving Cert Chemistry. I did the UCD one, (I know Trinity also un their own course), and really can't reccommend it enough, very supportive staff and a very good course layout, even coming from a science background, I learnt an awful lot, and it did prepare me well for heading back.

Hey jessibelle!
Just reading your post there.. You came from a science background? What was it, if you don't mind me asking? I have an undergraduate degree in general science, but I'm thinking of doing this ucd access course to cover all my bases for next year.. I like the way the ucd one is part-time, but how many subjects can you do through it? Is it only one or can you do a few, say chemistry, biology and physics? After you did the course were you offered your place?

Jessibelle

Hey SeeTea,
I've a degree in Biotechnology, but as degrees go, it was a lot more technology than biology, if that makes sense? (it covered more engineering sciences than biological is what I'm saying ). I did the Access course as when I got feedback on my application after the first time, one or two schools recommended I improve my chemistry mark from the Leaving cert (I'd also planned to sit the chemistry A level, but that didn't happen for a few reasons).
UCD's access course covers maths, chemisty, physics, study skills and an option between further maths (advised for if you want to pursue an engineering/maths degree) or biology.
I'm not saying I got my place just because of doing the Access course, but I do feel it helped hugely in showing the extent of my commitment, and I know when I was interviewed I was always asked as to why I was doing the course, and because I'd already completed the chemisty aspect of the course, and when asked how I did, was able to state and show a high mark, which I did feel went in my favour. HTH

SeeTea

That's a great help Jessibelle, thanks!! Oh I've no doubt that you put loads of work into you're application alongside doing the access course, I just meant was it in the same year as you finishing the access course then you were offered your place.

Really appreciate the reply, I'll have a think about it and see what the story is. Looks like I will go that way and try AGAIN to get into medicine next year if I don't hear back from other colleges for this year. You've made up my mind for me now, thanks!!

Jessibelle

no worries and pm if there's anything else I can help with? I may not answer straight off (I work odd hours during the year/summer) but I will get back to you.

SeeTea

Jessibelle wrote: »

no worries and pm if there's anything else I can help with? I may not answer straight off (I work odd hours during the year/summer) but I will get back to you.

Awh you're so good, thanks!! No doubt I'll have a load more questions for you in the VERY near future!!!:)

Xxx

EternalGeek

Could not agree anymore with the sentiment of this post as Jessibelle, my real life buddy will testify to I do spend a lot of time wondering why I am not already the Irish female version of House :rolleyes:

Have a nursing degree, am applying for 2013 entry. Working as a staff nurse and repeating the Leaving cert in the meantime.

Am happy to rant on the subject at anytime if anyone cares to do so

borrch

I'm repeating the leaving cert next year as well, cant apply as mature student as I live in Galway, unfortunately NUIG dont take mature students

EternalGeek

I didn't know NUIG don't take mature?

How are you feeling about repeating? I am horrified and looking forward to it in equal measure

borrch

I was at their open day in April full of hope regarding mature entry, as i was emailing their mature officer months before. She had told me they were hoping to start mature entry from 2013. But at the open day i asked the dean of medicine about it. She said they were considering offering 2 places to people who had already at 2:1 in biomed (plus interview).
Anyway I was very disappointed, so have to face up to the fact i'll have to repeat. 10 wks before the leaving i decided to sit two subjects this year, just to see how I'd get on (biology & physics). As I want to be realistic about getting the points. I sat my leaving cert in 2001 so a bit rusty :-(