hkc sabb with simon xt panel

marconi6

Hi

I'm hoping someone may be able to help.
I would like to connect a hkc sabb external bell to my simon xt panel.
I know the simon only supplies 6v so I intend supplying the sabb with separate 12v power supply which would be triggered via a relay from the simon panel. Where I'm not sure is the wiring for the 'bho' and 'tamper' connections.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

Thunderbird2

They make bells for the system.. Wouldn't think suppliers stock them but companies themselves might be willing to sell you one

Thunderbird2

Also the 12v supply has to be constant . You need the engineer code to change the terminal settings from "sensors " to bell "

marconi6

Thanks for reply

Have looked into getting the bell box for this system but proved very hard to get.
Also the hkc happens to be the same as the current dummy box which makes things a little easier!
Have sorted a constant 12v supply and have changed the panel output settings to external bell using the engineering code.
Only thing now is the bho wiring etc.

M

KoolKid

If your not worried about the tamper just give the BHO a permanent negative.

Thunderbird2

Not sure if its the same as the simon 3 .. There could be a little white connector block with 5 pins on the board.. The bell will come with a connection to fit here and you wire it as normal then..

Thunderbird2

Tamper gets wired in with the terminal blocks ... Will take out the simon and take a look !

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

If your not worried about the tamper just give the BHO a permanent negative.

He wont have a working bell then

KoolKid

A Sab will work without the tamper return connected. Why would he not have a working bell?.

Thunderbird2

Not the simon sabb.. To work it needs all connections

KoolKid

He is trying to connect a standard SAB. This will work with 12volt supply and negative triggers for bell and strobe . The tamper return does not affect whether the bell will ring or not.

Thunderbird2

Simon panel will only give off 6 volts and can only power 1 sabb. How will the strobe work.. Why would he wire it without a tamper??

KoolKid

He is supplying it from a separate power supply. He states this in his first post.
He is using relays to trigger the bell and strobe.
The tamper is irrelevant to the bell and store working. I was suggesting its not essential to get it working that's all.

Thunderbird2

I still dont see how it will work

KoolKid

All it needs to work is permanent power (12vdc) and negative trigger for the bell & strobe. Why wouldn't it work?

Thunderbird2

Where is he going to get the 12v triggers from? I've tried before and couldn't get it to work

KoolKid

I'm presuming he's getting 12 volt externally to power the bell , but the relays wouldn't be 12 volts. Getting the 6 volt bell would be the easier & correct solution . This would require an external power supply and one or two relays, messy but it will work.

Thunderbird2

I can't see it working with the relays as one of the triggers comes off a plug in. If he uses the relays the terminals would be used up and he would nt have the other trigger and. He couldn't power to six volt relays as the panel only gives off 6 volts any higher and it will blow . Also the panel needs a supervised siren ( option 53) . Also without getting the correct siren he wont get the little connector required for the trigger output.. do you have a diagram of how it can be done?

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I can't see it working with the relays as one of the triggers comes off a plug in. If he uses the relays the terminals would be used up and he would nt have the other trigger and. He couldn't power to six volt relays as the panel only gives off 6 volts any higher and it will blow .

If the panel can power an external bell & strobe then it should be able to handle a relay. The triggers could also come from the digi. There are lots of ways to get a trigger. Again , I agree the correct bell is the ideal, and easier, solution. But pretty much anything is possible with relays.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Also the panel needs a supervised siren ( option 53) .

Option 53 can be turned off AFAIK . Especially considering most of the time Eircom don't use an external bell.

Thunderbird2

Would you do a diagram for the op so he can see the differences??

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Would you do a diagram for the op so he can see the differences??

Going by this post he seems to know how to do it.

marconi6 wrote: »

Thanks for reply
Have sorted a constant 12v supply and have changed the panel output settings to external bell using the engineering code.
Only thing now is the bho wiring etc.

M

Lets see how he's getting on before we complicate this any more.
He may have if different to what we are thinking of.

Thunderbird2

Have a Simon sabb and HKC sabb here. Along with relays.Would you mind making a diagram? Would be interesting to see if it's possible

KoolKid

Lets wait till the OP gets back on first. Wouldn't want either of us to be hijacking his thread.

marconi6

Thanks for your help and pm's but I think i'm sorted.
I've attached a diagram, apologies for crude drawing, which is what seems to work.
I'm still at test stage but so far so good.
The relays are 5v +- so are triggered by the simon panel. You can also turn off 'hw supervision' in the panel menu. For some reason the strobe works best with just the positive attached.
It would have been easier to go with a 6v bell but as I said they were hard to find and the hkc is good and loud as well as matching the current decoy box keeping the pw branding!

Thanks again

KoolKid

Am I right in saying your switching the 12 volt +?
I would have kept the + permanent & switched the - with the relays.
Anyway glad you got it sorted , there was no reason it wouldn't work once you had the right relays.

Thunderbird2

What do you mean by set to "active" when armed and Set to "ext bell"
What kind of psu did you use?

marconi6

Thats right koolkid, I did break the + but only because it happened to work that way.
I will try the same on the - just for curiosity.
Thanks

Thunderbird2

I would put a link between the tamper for the tamper switch in the bellbox and connect the tamper switch into a wireless sensor

marconi6

In the simon xt menu there are various options when using hardwire out/in.
There are two hw in/outs.
I set hw1 to output a signal when the panel is armed, this is just to power the strobe to show alarm is armed.
Hw 2 is set to external bell which activates when alam is triggered.
At the moment i'm just using a standard 12v 3amp mains adapter that I happened to have lying around.

KoolKid

12 volt 3 amp is loads, however as a permanent solution I would look for something with a battery back up.

marconi6

Thanks for suggestions on tamper work around thunderbird and battery back up koolkid, both definitely worth doing.