How many can speak Irish in AH

Leftist

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The world goes on without irish.

impossible.

Iwasfrozen

Leftist wrote: »

impossible.

Judging by some people here you'd think it...

Lustrum

Based on some of the logic here about the usefulness of the language, we might aswell give up our Irish passports and just get European ones - sure it'd be the same thing, we don't need them for anything else.

I'm far from an Irish nazi, but can definitely see the point in keeping it alive. It's one of the many things that makes us Irish, along with our humour, music etc. When you travel, everyone speaks english which is great, but it's not until you have a conversation with someone you just met in Irish whilst floating down the Mekong in a longboat to realise the value of what we have, and how important it is that some of us are making the effort to keep it up

Enkidu

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Any way getting back to the point I understand some people like the irish language but that doesn't make it useful.

Sure, exactly.

The purpose of a language is it's use as a means of communication. Since there are no irish speakers who do not speak english left in existence that must mean irish is a redundant language.

That's a silly view of language. Several groups across the globe are naturally bilingual.

You might like learning it, either as a hobby or a code to speak about people without them knowing while simultaneously enjoying a greater sense of "irishness" then them, or even as a way of feeling intellectually or academically sepierior to the bulk of irish people who only speak one language.

You just can't help yourself can you? Imagine if somebody said something similar about mathematics, that people might like it "as a hobby, intellectual interest or a way to smugly feel superior to those with mathematical training". Seriously give the silly jibes a rest.

Enkidu

mcmoustache wrote: »

Not annoying at all...

Thanks for the response mcmoustache!
One final thing, would you feel a similar "us"-ness (a stupid phrase, but kindred spirit sounded like something out of a Dickens novel) with people from the other Gaeltachtaí, or would the "us" be mainly your own Gaeltacht area?

Thanks again.:)

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Any way getting back to the point I understand some people like the irish language but that doesn't make it useful. The purpose of a language is it's use as a means of communication.

I communicate with people in Irish every day of the week. Check.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Since there are no irish speakers who do not speak english left in existence that must mean irish is a redundant language.

Hold up - First you said the purpose of a language is to communicate. Now you are adding stipulations to suit your argument. Many people feel far more comfortable with Irish as a first language than English.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You might like learning it, either as a hobby, or a code to speak about people without them knowing

No sorry - I don't speak about people in Irish without them knowing what I'm saying. Somebody must have been feeding your head full of shíte as a kid. You literally think that Irish speakers are planning and scheming in Irish, talking about people behind their backs. What an utter preposterous idea. I'm embarrassed for you at this point.

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

I communicate with people in Irish every day of the week. Check.



Hold up - First you said the purpose of a language is to communicate. Now you are adding stipulations to suit your argument. Many people feel far more comfortable with Irish as a first language than English.



No sorry - I don't speak about people in Irish without them knowing what I'm saying. Somebody must have been feeding your head full of shíte as a kid. You literally think that Irish speakers are planning and scheming in Irish, talking about people behind their backs. What an utter preposterous idea. I'm embarrassed for you at this point.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying here. The purpose of a language is as a means of communication. Since there are no speakers of irish who do not also speak english there is a total containment of the speakers of irish within the speakers of english. That makes the irish language totally redundant. Any arguement to the contrary is ignoring facts to suit your position. Though tbh I don't blame you, if I'd invested the time and energy needed to learn another language I'd want to see that language succeed too. But we can't let sentimental feelings influence how we feel about a non living thing like a language.

Iwasfrozen

Enkidu wrote: »

Sure, exactly.

That's a silly view of language. Several groups across the globe are naturally bilingual.

You just can't help yourself can you? Imagine if somebody said something similar about mathematics, that people might like it "as a hobby, intellectual interest or a way to smugly feel superior to those with mathematical training". Seriously give the silly jibes a rest.

Other people speaking other redundant languages doesn't make irish less redundant...

They could say that about maths but then they'd be wrong. Maths is infinitely more useful then any one language.

dlofnep

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying here. The purpose of a language is as a means of communication. Since there are no speakers of irish who do not also speak english there is a total containment of the speakers of irish within the speakers of english. That makes the irish language totally redundant. Any arguement to the contrary is ignoring facts to suit your position.

Except that your argument is flawed. You completely overlook the fact that there are many people who are more comfortable using the Irish language than English, or prefer to use the Irish language over English. Or that there are a number of areas in Ireland where Irish is the working language of the community.

So no - the Irish language is not redundant. And don't talk to me about ignoring facts to suit my position. You're hardly here as a beacon of objectivity.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Though tbh I don't blame you, if I'd invested the time and energy needed to learn another language I'd want to see that language succeed too.

I felt strongly about Irish, long before I ever took the time out to learn it. Moot point.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But we can't let sentimental feelings influence how we feel about a non living thing like a language.

Oh, so you don't arrive in every Irish language thread like a fly on cow-shit to tell us how useless it is, and how everyone who speaks it is in some super secret social club to talk behind peoples backs in Irish? That's not fuelled by sentiment? Get over yourself.

Iwasfrozen

dlofnep wrote: »

Except that your argument is flawed. You completely overlook the fact that there are many people who are more comfortable using the Irish language than English, or prefer to use the Irish language over English. Or that there are a number of areas in Ireland where Irish is the working language of the community.

So no - the Irish language is not redundant. And don't talk to me about ignoring facts to suit my position. You're hardly here as a beacon of objectivity.

I felt strongly about Irish, long before I ever took the time out to learn it. Moot point.

Oh, so you don't arrive in every Irish language thread like a fly on cow-shit to tell us how useless it is, and how everyone who speaks it is in some super secret social club to talk behind peoples backs in Irish? That's not fuelled by sentiment? Get over yourself.

I haven't forgotten about it, it's just that it doesn't matter. What we should be asking is why people prefere speaking irish over english. The reason is because they put sentimental feelings onto the language, in a place where it doesn't belong. Since irish is a redundant language yet it's still used it tells us that there are only illogical reasons for it's use. That's all very fine and dandy until we remember public funds are being used to support this language.

lol, pot kettle black btw.

Enkidu

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Other people speaking other redundant languages doesn't make irish less redundant...

True, I guess Unit 201, if only the human realised that their so called "culture" was redundant.

*******Transmission A45S terminated*******

They could say that about maths but then they'd be wrong. Maths is infinitely more useful then any one language.

I said nothing about use. I was saying imagine if somebody said that people only like maths to feel superior to others. Such a person would be a moron, as people like maths for many reasons. I like maths (especially differential geometry) and I don't like it to feel superior to others or to be part of an elite club. Similarly I like Irish and again, not for the exaggerated reasons you provided.

Ms.M

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I haven't forgotten about it, it's just that it doesn't matter. What we should be asking is why people prefere speaking irish over english. The reason is because they put sentimental feelings onto the language, in a place where it doesn't belong. Since irish is a redundant language yet it's still used it tells us that there are only illogical reasons for it's use. That's all very fine and dandy until we remember public funds are being used to support this language.

Public funds are used to support the Arts as well.
Just wondering, do you find this equally redundant or is it just Irish you have a problem with?

p.s You do hijack these threads a lot. This thread wasn't made to support/critique the language. Dlofnep is only responding to your comments on Irish and its speakers.

Lustrum

Lustrum wrote: »

....... it's not until you have a conversation with someone you just met in Irish whilst floating down the Mekong in a longboat to realise the value of what we have, and how important it is that some of us are making the effort to keep it up

Ah, I see.

Actually, I don't see.

What does the Mekong have to do with learning Irish?

Enkidu

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, I see.

Actually, I don't see.

What does the Mekong have to do with learning Irish?

The Mekong is the world's second largest aquatic Gaeltacht after the Yangtze.

languagenerd

I would describe my Irish as "semi-fluent", in that I can hold full conversations on some topics and have no vocab at all on others. That's school Irish for you - I'm able to describe the themes and imagery used in a poem but not ask someone to pass me the gravy at the dinner table :P

I got an A in it in the LC but have barely used it in 3 years now. I watch a fair bit of Ros na Rún these days, and find that after an hour of that I can speak far more easily. I keep saying I'm gonna do conversation classes in it, but never seem to find the time. It's damn handy abroad when I want to describe someone nearby to my friend who's blind though :pac:

languagenerd

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is no reason to learn irish over another language other then silly nationalistic notions, there is no other explaination for it. If you like languages there are many many more useful languages for you to learn. I can see no reason, other then nationalism, for why someone would want to learn irish. There are no practical benifites to that language over other ones. If you have practical reasons for learning Irish over another one please do share, I'd be interested in hearing it.

I've quoted this post, but I've read all your posts in this thread, and it seems you're judging everyone by your own standard or your own experiences. Just because you don't like Irish, or because you don't want to learn it does not mean that other people don't. Everyone is different, and we all don't think the same way you do. I accept that, for you, learning Irish would be out of "nationalist sentimentality", but please stop making out that everyone else is the same!

Also, not everyone decides to learn or do something based on its usefulness. I play guitar, but I'm not a professional musician and it's not my career. Was it useful for me to learn guitar? Probably not, if we describe useful as you have been doing. But I love playing for myself, it's a hobby and I enjoy it. I read books, not necessarily because it's a useful thing to do, but because I like reading. In the same way, I also enjoy learning Irish and using it with other people. Another language is like another view of the world. I learn different skills and languages because I'm interested in them and because I enjoy doing it. It's got absolutely nothing to do with usefulness or with "nationalism" (I am not in the least bit patriotic).

Besides, what exactly defines useful? If Irish-speakers communicate with each other in Irish, is that not using it?

later12

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

... I mention practical reasons and you mention poetry. Are you for real?

Yes. I learned Irish because I wanted to understand Irish literature. I learned Spanish because I wanted to watch Almodovar movies without the subtitles. Not because I needed Spanish, I have no very close Spanish friends and all of the Spanish people I know speak such fantastic English that it would be quite un-necessary.

If you're looking for "practical skills" that a language can bestow... like fixing lawnmowers, milking cows or building engines, then you're right; Irish will not help you with those things. But then, neither will Spanish, German, Hungarian, Greek (modern or ancient) or anything else. And very few people who learn these languages derive any "practical skill" out of them.

bdoo

I was wondering who could answer this question for me when lo and behold ah is teeming with Irish speakers.

I have a reasonable amount of Irish can understand the nuacht and read it away i get woeful nervous speaking it though with gaeilge snobs always ready to pour scorn on my efforts.

Ceist 1

bhí mé ar an luas de hAoine so chaite. Chonaic mé San Seamais ar an stop in aice an oispidéail.

why not naomh? was st James Spanish or Italian or am i missing something?

later12

bdoo wrote: »

why not naomh? was st James Spanish or Italian or am i missing something?

No idea, sounds a bit odd.

In cases like this we must ask ourselves "what would Peig have said?"

I think she would have said Ospidéal Naomh Séamas, no idea where they are getting this San Seamus from

CajunPenguin

bdoo wrote: »

I was wondering who could answer this question for me when lo and behold ah is teeming with Irish speakers.

I have a reasonable amount of Irish can understand the nuacht and read it away i get woeful nervous speaking it though with gaeilge snobs always ready to pour scorn on my efforts.

Ceist 1

bhí mé ar an luas de hAoine so chaite. Chonaic mé San Seamais ar an stop in aice an oispidéail.

why not naomh? was st James Spanish or Italian or am i missing something?

It's very strange the councils seem to be intent on changing the signs and placenames. Where I live has always been known as Baile Buadáin and my old neighbourhood was Cnoc Liamhna but then one day some new road signs were put up saying Baile Baodáin and Cnoc Lín, the second a very obvious attempt at Anglicising the name. Since there is a Gaelscoil there (Gaelscoil Cnoc Liamhna) and they have kept their name the same, everyone else says it as well

Wibbs

later12 wrote: »

In cases like this we must ask ourselves "what would Peig have said?"

If I was in a room with the raisin faced old crone she would be saying "oh please by the saints and the souls of dead currach men don't kill me. I swear I'll cheer up. Maybe even crack a smile. I've 18 kids you know, once saw a blue man and my bheal was tres bocht". Slan bitch. BANG *cycle another round* BANG. Just to be sure. To be sure.

shopaholic01

Wibbs wrote: »

If I was in a room with the raisin faced old crone she would be saying "oh please by the saints and the souls of dead currach men don't kill me. I swear I'll cheer up. Maybe even crack a smile. I've 18 kids you know, once saw a blue man and my bheal was tres bocht". Slan bitch. BANG *cycle another round* BANG. Just to be sure. To be sure.

No, it would need to be a much slower and more painful death. Shooting would be too good for the miserable, whining bitch.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

If I was in a room with the raisin faced old crone she would be saying "oh please by the saints and the souls of dead currach men don't kill me. I swear I'll cheer up. Maybe even crack a smile. I've 18 kids you know, once saw a blue man and my bhéal was tres bocht". Slán bitch. BANG *cycle another round* BANG. Just to be sure. To be sure.

FYP. :D

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

If I was in a room with the raisin faced old crone she would be saying "oh please by the saints and the souls of dead currach men don't kill me. I swear I'll cheer up. Maybe even crack a smile. I've 18 kids you know, once saw a blue man and my bhéal was très bocht". Slán bitch. BANG *cycle another round* BANG. Just to be sure. To be sure.

FYP. :D


Properly this time.......

bdoo

Wibbs wrote: »

later12 wrote: »

In cases like this we must ask ourselves "what would Peig have said?"

If I was in a room with the raisin faced old crone she would be saying "oh please by the saints and the souls of dead currach men don't kill me. I swear I'll cheer up. Maybe even crack a smile. I've 18 kids you know, once saw a blue man and my bheal was tres bocht". Slan bitch. BANG *cycle another round* BANG. Just to be sure. To be sure.

Just to be sure she's not playing dead eh?

4zn76tysfajdxp

Wibbs wrote: »

Slan bitch.

Class.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

FYP. :D


Properly this time.......

Maybe not...

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe not...

I know. I made a mbolicí of it. Twice.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I know. I made a mbolicí of it. Twice.

Actually, I've just checked, and I didn't make a mbolic of it the second time.


Yaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy! Go me!

languagenerd

bdoo wrote: »

Ceist 1

bhí mé ar an luas de hAoine so chaite. Chonaic mé San Seamais ar an stop in aice an oispidéail.

why not naomh? was st James Spanish or Italian or am i missing something?

later12 wrote: »

No idea, sounds a bit odd.

In cases like this we must ask ourselves "what would Peig have said?"

I think she would have said Ospidéal Naomh Séamas, no idea where they are getting this San Seamus from

We had this debate in school in 2003, because in primary school we'd learned to refer to our school with "San" but my first-year teacher in secondary school referred to it as "Naomh".

She did some research into it, and came up with this:
Naomh is used for Irish saints (Naomh Pádraig, Naomh Cillian) but San is used for foreign saints (San Séamus, San Pól etc.)

I have no proof that this is true, but it makes sense in this case, because St. James wasn't Irish (and didn't do anything in Ireland afaik). I have heard Naomh Peadar though, and Peter wasn't Irish... unless it was a different Peter! But it works well as a general rule of thumb.

CajunPenguin

People who say there's no point in learning Irish are generally just bad at the language and resent it. Why should the French speak French? Why do Germans speak German?Everyone hates English who aren't native speakers, it's hard to learn, there are no set rules for grammar, and the only people who speak it other than the English themselves are countries who had it forced on them. I like speaking Irish, it's much easier than English imho, while Irish people speak fast enough anyway there's something about Irish that lets people speak it super fast or at ordinary pace, the former for fellow speakers, the latter for learners. Also a lot of foreigners like you more the less english you are.

foxyboxer

Chuaigh me go dti mean scoil tri mean na gaeilge.
Bhi me fluirseach ansin.

Anois?

Ta an cumas fos agam comhra a dheanamh le daoine eile leis an teanga,
ach nil aon cuiseanna agam feabhas a chur ar an caighdean gaeilge ata agam faoi lathar.

Trua.

Wibbs

CajunPenguin wrote: »

People who say there's no point in learning Irish are generally just bad at the language and resent it.

Some but not all. Lucky you added the generally.

Why should the French speak French? Why do Germans speak German?

Because it's their native language? Lest you cry foul on the "native" bit, try finding a French or German person who isn't fully fluent in the respective languages. Good luck with that. However throw a stone in any crowd in Ireland and you'll hit an Irish person who can't speak Irish. You'll want a fair bag of stones to throw before you hit one that is fully fluent.

Everyone hates English who aren't native speakers,

Everyone eh?

it's hard to learn,

Harder than some easier than others. Like any language. Try any of the Asian tonal languages and get back to us.

there are no set rules for grammar

Aware but of them you're there not most are certainly. See what I did there? No set rules for grammar? Sheesh. You do know what the word grammar means?

and the only people who speak it other than the English themselves are countries who had it forced on them.

I take it then you speak the pre Celtic language of Ireland? No? Americans had it forced on them? Canadians? New Zealanders? Aussies? What about the aforementioned French? Should they be ticked off about those pesky Italians forcing their language on them. A tad historically dubious Ted.

I like speaking Irish, it's much easier than English imho, while Irish people speak fast enough anyway there's something about Irish that lets people speak it super fast or at ordinary pace, the former for fellow speakers, the latter for learners.

Easier for you maybe, harder for others and you could claim the speed aspect for damn near any language you care to mention. High speed Spanish makes Irish look like it's on mogadon.

Also a lot of foreigners like you more the less english you are.

Riiiight. Methinks the political reasons trump all others.

While there are many good reasons for retaining any minority language that list seems to me to be well in the "I haven't really though this through before typing" pile.

imelle

ceapaim go bhfuil gaeilge líofa agam

Jorah

Alba gu bràth!!!!

Ms.M

Originally posted by Wibbs Because it's their native language? Lest you cry foul on the "native" bit, try finding a French or German person who isn't fully fluent in the respective languages. Good luck with that. However throw a stone in any crowd in Ireland and you'll hit an Irish person who can't speak Irish. You'll want a fair bag of stones to throw before you hit one that is fully fluent.

I really don't see how Irish becomes less of a "native language" for its native speakers or more removed from an Irish-speaker than say French is from a French person just because there are other Irish people who don't speak it. That argument doesn't hold up.

Originally posted by CajunPenguin. Everyone hates English who aren't native speakers, it's hard to learn, there are no set rules for grammar, and the only people who speak it other than the English themselves are countries who had it forced on them...
Also a lot of foreigners like you more the less english you are.

Cherishing Irish because it's "non-English" doesn't really do the language any justice. I don't think we should define identity purely in terms of our difference from the British. I think foreigners can relate to pride in a language more than a lot of Irish people can, and their approval/interest stems from that. Not a hatred of the English or the English language. As for the difficulty level of English, I'm glad of being a fluent English speaker because it's so notoriously difficult to learn to be honest.

Originally posted by Wibbs: I take it then you speak the pre Celtic language of Ireland? No? Americans had it forced on them? Canadians? New Zealanders? Aussies? What about the aforementioned French? Should they be ticked off about those pesky Italians forcing their language on them. A tad historically dubious Ted.

I knew a Ted once. I'm sure Irish does contain nuances from the original settlers somewhere. We can't say with any certainty that there was some massive language-shift since we can't say there was a Celtic invasion in the first place. Irish might be rooted back further than we thought. You're talking about people who are descended from British settlers. We had this argument before and you said that Ireland had a British heritage too. Well fine. We have an Irish heritage too. I'll take my two languages over one, thank you very much. And I don't think the poster is ticked off about anything. Maybe a bit overly cheerful about not being English but I wouldn't say ticked off.

Originally posted by mcmoustache: There's more to languages than just translations of English. Aside form the fluffy stuff like poetry and other guff, they're full of historical, sociological, psychological and interpretive information. While there may be nationalistic reasons behind some people's motivations to learn the language, it's not the only reason for its existence.

+ 1 Articulated more concisely than I ever could. When I get confronted by negative generalisations I tend to type up essays, delete bits of them, delete all of them, tell the computer to f*ck off and then make myself some tea. And watch TG4 of course :cool: (*Not Ros na Rún I'm not looking for ways of murdering anybody)

I live in Dublin now though but I still speak Irish regularly by making it a big part of my social life. I have friends from home here, I do amateur acting with an Irish language acting group, I play football with Na Gaeil Óga (Dublin's only 100% Irish-speaking football club) and I regularly drink in Club Chonradh na Gaeilge which is an Irish-speaking pub/club.
It's the language that I was raised with and it's a huge part of my identity. I see myself as distinct from people outside the Gaeltacht but language and culture tends to do that.

I'm moving back to Dublin soon. I love the Conradh. I was worried it would be a wee bit too young for me. What's the name of the Irish language acting group?

Enkidu

Ms.M wrote: »

I knew a Ted once. I'm sure Irish does contain nuances from the original settlers somewhere. We can't say with any certainty that there was some massive language-shift since we can't say there was a Celtic invasion in the first place. Irish might be rooted back further than we thought.

No, Wibbs is correct. Irish probably displaced at least three or maybe four kinds of languages. First there was the Pre-Indo-European languages here since the first settlement, then there was possibly the Afro-Asiatic languages of the first farmers, then the Indo-European language of the Bell-Beaker culture (European Hydronomy language), then British forms of Celtic and only then Irish.

Ms.M

Enkidu wrote: »

No, Wibbs is correct. Irish probably displaced at least three or maybe four kinds of languages. First there was the Pre-Indo-European languages here since the first settlement, then there was possibly the Afro-Asiatic languages of the first farmers, then the Indo-European language of the Bell-Beaker culture (European Hydronomy language), then British forms of Celtic and only then Irish.

I'm very interested in this.
I wish we knew how the language came into being. Recent DNA evidence seems to indicate there was no massive invasion or genocide. I know some linguists think we just picked up Irish for trade purposes but even in those circumstances, I would have presumed there'd be at least a few loan words from the original settlers hanging out in Gaeilge.
There's another argument that Gaeilge isn't really a Celtic language at all and probably predates the Celts. I don't put a lot of stock in intellectual research tbh, everyone has to do research in something. And I could see why some people might create this argument for sentimental reasons. But how do we know? Can we know? Anybody got any interesting links?

Enkidu

Ms.M wrote: »

I'm very interested in this.
I wish we knew how the language came into being. Recent DNA evidence seems to indicate there was no massive invasion or genocide. I know some linguists think we just picked up Irish for trade purposes but even in those circumstances, I would have presumed there'd be at least a few loan words from the original settlers hanging out in Gaeilge.
There's another argument that Gaeilge isn't really a Celtic language at all and probably predates the Celts. I don't put a lot of stock in intellectual research tbh, everyone has to do research in something. And I could see why some people might create this argument for sentimental reasons. But how do we know? Can we know? Anybody got any interesting links?

Irish is without a shadow of a doubt a Celtic language. The language present on the Ogam stones and the earliest Old Irish writings is extremely similar to the language of the Gauls. More importantly however all the languages can be related to each other through simple sound transformation rules.

First of all Irish is definitely Indo-European, the grammar and verb structure tell you that instantly. So let's look at the languages we call Celtic. Unlike the rest of the Indo-European languages, every single one of these languages has a long u in final syllables where other languages have a long o.

Example: (I carry)
Latin: fero
Greek: phero
Old Irish: biru

This example also shows you another sound change, Indo-European consonants were de-lenited (lenition is when you you don't completely stop the flow of air in your mouth, try it with b and you'll get a v sound) in Celtic, so f became b.

Also languages like Latin, Greek and Sanskrit in the present tended to reduplicate the consonant of a verb if the following consonant came immediately after it and was too "harsh":

The verb "Give" usually has some kind of "dm" sound in the older Indo-European languages so we see Greek and Sanskrit doing "didm".

Let's see if we can use this to predict anything:

I beget (Old Irish): gníu

So we apply the rules above to get the Latin word.
First (í)u goes to o:
gníu -> gno

Next reduplicate because gn is too harsh:
gigno

and we predict that the Latin should be: gigno

Which is indeed the Latin word.

The full list of these rules is only about two pages long and I can generate every Latin word from Irish words.

Now the rules to generate Latin words from Irish words are 90% identical to the rules to generate Latin words from Gaulish words. If you look at Primitive Irish the rules are 95% identical. Even more importantly the rules to generate Gaulish from Primitive Irish are about five lines long.

This tells me that Irish and Gaulish are very similar, when I try to turn Latin into Primitive Irish or Gaulish the first 95% of the rules are identical. This indicates that these are the rules of a common language Irish and Gaulish both descend from (Proto-Celtic). The last 5% is the small amount Gaulish and Irish have moved away from each other.

Now look at archaeology. We find that Ireland and France had a similar material culture, coming from the Halstatt people. Then look for other areas with Halstatt culture, for instance Nothern Spain. What was the language there? It turns out the language there has the same initial 95% of rules to generate Latin, it must also have come from Proto-Celtic and you would now suspect that Proto-Celtic was the language of the Halstatt.

This is a very short illustration of our current knowledge.

Ms.M

Thanks for taking the time to type all that Enkidu, much appreciated!

slowburner

Enkidu wrote: »

Example: (I carry)
Latin: fero
Greek: phero
Old Irish: biru

Is that the root of 'borrow', by any chance?

InTheTrees

Do we have this poll every week?

:mad:

ManOnFire

speak fluent Irish
at a distinct advantage tho considering I've lived in the Gaeltacht all my life
couldn't imagine not having it or going to school through english

dlofnep

ManOnFire wrote: »

speak fluent Irish
at a distinct advantage tho considering I've lived in the Gaeltacht all my life
couldn't imagine not having it or going to school through english

An as Gaeltacht na Rinne thú?

mcmoustache

Enkidu wrote: »

Thanks for the response mcmoustache!
One final thing, would you feel a similar "us"-ness (a stupid phrase, but kindred spirit sounded like something out of a Dickens novel) with people from the other Gaeltachtaí, or would the "us" be mainly your own Gaeltacht area?

Thanks again.:)

Sorry, for the delay but I've been flat out all week.

I feel more similar to people from Connemara. Language, accent and region are probably the main reasons for it. I do feel that connection to people from the Munster Gaeltachts but not quite to the same degree. Not far off though - we're fairly similar. People from Donegal, on the other hand... I find them very difficult to understand but they're still west-coast bogland folk like myself and their language is Irish so I would identify with them a fair bit.

This is all probably the same as what drives Irish people towards each other when they emigrate to places like Oz.

Bandiam666

I would like to know a lot of Irish but i dont, anyway it's the thought that counts & sure there are plenty of irish speakers so the language aint about to do a vanishing act now & leave all us wannabes high & dry. Yeah good times i foresee when i can rant & rave in irish it sounds so much more powerful than english is that just me ?

Caribbean Cat

It can be so much more powerful than English,either giving out or giving compliments!It's more descriptive I think. Also it's interesting that there are no swear words per se in Irish..more rude phrases and slang words.

Ms.M

Bandiam666 wrote: »

I would like to know a lot of Irish but i dont, anyway it's the thought that counts & sure there are plenty of irish speakers so the language aint about to do a vanishing act now & leave all us wannabes high & dry. Yeah good times i foresee when i can rant & rave in irish it sounds so much more powerful than english is that just me ?

It's phonetically richer so it does feel more powerful. Like playing on weighted keys on a keyboard. It sounds more guttural than English, it has "uglier" sounds. It also has loads of beautiful sounds that you don't hear in English. It almost feels more satisfying to speak. Gets the 'aul cheek bones working. I have a theory that's why the TG4 ladies are so good-looking. It's all in the cheekbone exercises!

Gumbi

Ms.M wrote: »

Bandiam666 wrote: »

I would like to know a lot of Irish but i dont, anyway it's the thought that counts & sure there are plenty of irish speakers so the language aint about to do a vanishing act now & leave all us wannabes high & dry. Yeah good times i foresee when i can rant & rave in irish it sounds so much more powerful than english is that just me ?

It's phonetically richer so it does feel more powerful. Like playing on weighted keys on a keyboard. It sounds more guttural than English, it has "uglier" sounds. It also has loads of beautiful sounds that you don't hear in English. It almost feels more satisfying to speak. Gets the 'aul cheek bones working. I have a theory that's why the TG4 ladies are so good-looking. It's all in the cheekbone exercises!

Yes, it's waaay richer. It has many less words (although English does have, compsratively, a huge number of words anyway), though they are more descriptive; words can also mean many things.

Caribbean Cat

Caribbean Cat wrote: »

It can be so much more powerful than English,either giving out or giving compliments!It's more descriptive I think. Also it's interesting that there are no swear words per se in Irish..more rude phrases and slang words.

Wouldn't the lack of swear words be down to the fact that origionally the dictionaries were mainly written by religious people who would have chosen to omit certain words, rather than there been none in the first place.