Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

DL Saint

mikemac1 wrote: »

The nights watch sent a party north led the old commander Mormont

Then that party of five or six set off to assassinate Manceraider, plan failed obviously

Where are the rest of the party and the commander?
Are they up on top of that mountain we saw at the end?
Or have they headed back to the wall?

Been a few weeks since that decision was made, I can't remember

Yes, they are at the fist of the 1st men which the white walkers are closing in on...

OctavarIan

OctavarIan wrote: »

Just to clarify for people who haven't picked up on the distinction yet.

Dude on the horse = A white walker (also referred to as an 'other')
Zombie-looking creatures around him = wights (basically just reanimated corpses)

It's explained in bits and pieces throughout season 1 and 2 but with everything else going on it's easy to miss things.

I thought they did a really good job with the white walker's appearance! His wight horse was awesome as well.

No, the thing on the horse was an 'Other' and the zombie-things are White Walkers.
Walkers are basically reanimated corpses the that obey the Others. The Others are the brains of the operation.

Witcher

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the thing on the horse was an 'Other' and the zombie-things are White Walkers.
Walkers are basically reanimated corpses the that obey the Others. The Others are the brains of the operation.

Walkers are the Others, they were called white walkers for the TV show, the books call them Others. The zombies are wights, one of them attacked Jon earlier in the series.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/White_Walkers

SirDelboy18

Love this show, good last episode, but there was a big lack of payoff in the Qarth storyline.

Blay

Blay wrote: »

Walkers are the Others, they were called white walkers for the TV show, the books call them Others. The zombies are wights, one of them attacked Jon earlier in the series.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/White_Walkers

Why'd they rename them, I wonder

pixelburp

'Others' seems a bit lame - overly mysterious & melodramatic perhaps? At least "White Walkers" sounds vaguely mystical and something from myth.

titan18

Deleted User wrote: »

Why'd they rename them, I wonder

The wildlings called them White Walkers originally. I presumed it was to stop the Lost comparisons by calling them The Others

quad_red

Enjoyed the episode. But the Winterfell debacle was messily handled in that it left me irritated rather than intrigued.

Theon's rants about the guy blowing the horn were hilarious.

The death of the maester of Winterfell was respectfully handled. Very sad.

Overall, roll on S3!!

andy1249

They are mostly called the others in the books , but the TV show avoids it like the plague because understandably they dont want to be associated with lost !

That would be where most would remember the term "others" from.

Professional Griefer

Thought that was a unreal episode. Another year, balls. The others looked brilliant, as did the dragons. Direwolves looked a bit **** tbh.

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing Sansa die either.

Elessar

Dunno about you lads but Rose Leslie who plays Ygritte (jon snow's love interest) is the finest thing on TV in a long time!

lynski

wow. happy out with that.
delighted the white walkers are not zombies - am zombied out with walkers.
Have to watch again, but the only gripe is the burning of winterfell, no explanation or indication given oh and not enough arya or tywin. loved the theon speech scene.

Syferus

DL Saint wrote: »

Jon Snow killing Quaran Hafan was something I did not see coming, but I guess that is the price he had to pay in order to gain the wildlings trust.

Finally the White Walkers scene was brief but brilliant. We know they are back in numbers. We know what they look like (appear different to in episode 1 imo). We know what their leader looks like. And it was clear that many of them have the appearance of dead wildling or nights watch men.

Halfhand pretty much told Jon head on in episode 8 that he should kill him to gain the confidence of the wildlings, though.

He/it was just a rider, I wouldn't class anyone as 'the leader', plenty of other ones on horses were doing the exact same screaming and pointing like chimps. And it's been obvious since that dead body came back to like at Castle Black that the White Walkers are reanimated corpses - I don't think we can classify that as new information!

lynski

Syferus wrote: »

Halfhand pretty much told Jon head on in episode 8 that he should kill him to gain the confidence of the wildlings, though.

He/it was just a rider, I wouldn't class anyone as 'the leader', plenty of other ones on horses were doing the exact same screaming and pointing like chimps. And it's been obvious since that dead body came back to like at Castle Black that the White Walkers are reanimated corpses - I don't think we can classify that as new information!

there is a post above explaining the difference and the wiki is very useful - thankfully the white walkers are not reanimated corpses - their wights are.

Scioch

Two questions about the last couple episodes.

Firstly in the previous episode was it a gold cloak who attacked Tyrion ? I take it the queen wanted rid of him ?

And who burnt winterfell ? Wasnt Rob's man's sons army outside the gates ? So why did Bran and the others have to leg it north ?

titan18

Just on the White Walkers, they're actually a race, not reanimated corpses. The wights are reanimated corpses, the White Walkers have the power to create them.

Professional Griefer

He looks so badass.

Scioch

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

Syferus

So that makes it more confusing - I imagine the White Walkers are much more high-functioning than the wights?

Been watching the Season 1 blu ray extras and I'm guessing the Children of Forest (who disappeared north when the Andals invaded and murdered most of them) have a lot to do with the White Walkers.

mikemac1

Elessar wrote: »

Dunno about you lads but Rose Leslie who plays Ygritte (jon snow's love interest) is the finest thing on TV in a long time!

She's in Downton Abbey Season 1 if you ever watch that

Dave!

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

No, different guy

She saved Jaquin when he was locked in a carriage that was about to catch fire

We didn't see what happened to that "dance teacher", looked like he was about to be killed though

Scioch

Dave! wrote: »

No, different guy

She saved Jaquin when he was locked in a carriage that was about to catch fire

We didn't see what happened to that "dance teacher", looked like he was about to be killed though

But when he left in the final episode he changed his appearance and said "farewell my little stark". Aria also mentioned her teacher was from the same place.

I thought there may have been more to the exchange.

mikemac1

I'm probably going to get ridiculed :pac:

Littlefinger needs a wife
And he said Sansa reminds him of her mother

Just seems convenient if he marries her and takes her with him to his new city
He can treat people well when he wants to, seems a decent match

Ix Deadmau5

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing Sansa die either.

No hating on the Little Bird! :mad:

hypermuse

the fact Arya's killer friend is a shapeshifter was unreal! was well impressed when he revealed that!

OctavarIan

Syferus wrote: »

So that makes it more confusing - I imagine the White Walkers are much more high-functioning than the wights?

I think what that ending scene was trying to get across was that the White Walkers possess a level of intelligence that goes beyond "RARR KILL EVERY HUMAN I SEE". The way that White Walker looks down his nose at Sam and dismisses him says a lot.

Also at the very beginning of Season 1 Episode 1 a White Walker lets that guy from the Night's Watch escape on purpose, rather than just kill him.

Also remember that Craster seems to have some kind of deal in place with them. In order to do that they must have some kind of intelligence.

expectationlost

that wonky smile will be wiped off THE queens face soon enough?

Syferus

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Hyzepher

Just finished watching it there and thought it was a good final episode. Gave us a good foundation for next season.

Sensa still annoys me in the way she is incapable of taking advice/help - maybe Littlefinger will convince her.

The burning of Winterfell was odd and the only thing I can think of that would make sense was if the 200 men that were camped outside did the burning and then legged it. I can't see the 20 or so men who left with Theon waiting around to kill everyone - especially as they were more than likely giving him up so they could go free.

probably need to watch it again.

mufcboy1999

Really enjoyed that episode. I have to say though In all it was a pretty disappointing series but hopefully series 3 will be more consistant.

Tbh the last 2 episodes were great though.

Funglegunk

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

Syferus

Funglegunk wrote: »

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

Syferus

Funglegunk wrote: »

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply. She's just completely cowed in and cowardly, the duality between her and Arya is as.. stark.. as night and Day.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

longhalloween

pixelburp wrote: »

'Others' seems a bit lame - overly mysterious & melodramatic perhaps? At least "White Walkers" sounds vaguely mystical and something from myth.

I think if they kept them as 'The Others' it'd draw comparisons to Lost. That said, 'walkers' are what the zombies in 'The Walking Dead' are called.

calex71

Syferus wrote: »

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

What about self preservation? Everything shown on screen made me feel this was her motivation, keep her head down , especially in the scenes with Cersei and the hound in episode 9 where she had chances to go, so many times in the series has she had a chance to bad mouth the king and every time she did the opposite.

Syferus

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Really enjoyed that episode. I have to say though In all it was a pretty disappointing series but hopefully series 3 will be more consistant.

Tbh the last 2 episodes were great though.

The finale somehow managed the feat of both being significantly longer than a regular episode and feeling like huge chunks were missing.

No Mance Rayder - which I think is almost insane in terms of how little actually happened north of the wall, we've spent the entire season talking about Rayder and they pull back from the money shot even in the finale. A little face time is all we needed to feel like the chains have decisively moved forward.

It took away from the impact of the zombie horde for me. Which, actually, is an aspect of the White Walkers I'm not keen on, the zombie fatigue in popular culture has reached un-rivalled levels and The Walking Dead eats up any good-will I have on the topic. The saving grace is that they're actually commanded by intelligent beings. I hope to God the White Walkers can converse in something more than monkey screams, though.

The less said about the bizarre jumps in the Winterfell story the better, nor was Stannis' escape (he was isolated atop the wall, so unless he killed every last archer I fail to see how he was ending up anywhere but in a dungeon) or the Onion Knight's survival (or lack thereof) satisfactorily explained. Robb instantly marrying rather than at least waiting until the war was over felt like a transparent device to create tension with the Freys next season.

If anything this was perhaps the weakest and most disappointing episode of the show so far, with the storyline that I was least interested in seeing (Danys) being the saving grace. The episode was enjoyable, but in no way was it one of the best.

The season overall, however, was full of wonderful moments and interactions. I don't care about the pace events unfolds as long as it feels organic.

Washington Irving

Did anyone else notice the horse the White Walker was on at the end? Had wounds on/ around its neck. It reminded me of the horse that was killed by The Mountain after the jousting contest. Little detail but made me smile

Liamalone

Jeez I must get the books, just feels like a crammed version for tv. I wonder how it is going down with those that have read the books? Afraid to venture in there lol

Enjoyed the series though, didn't think this episode was good at all due to things just being 'tied up' or being 'set up' for the next installment.

Needs to be more episodes, simple as.

TerrorFirmer

Hyzepher wrote: »

The burning of Winterfell was odd and the only thing I can think of that would make sense was if the 200 men that were camped outside did the burning and then legged it. I can't see the 20 or so men who left with Theon waiting around to kill everyone - especially as they were more than likely giving him up so they could go free.

probably need to watch it again.

After just watching it, that stood out to me more than anything else....the burning of Winterfell, seemingly wholly baffling as to who, and why, given the respective circumstances.

Syferus

Liamalone wrote: »

Jeez I must get the books, just feels like a crammed version for tv. I wonder how it is going down with those that have read the books? Afraid to venture in there lol

Enjoyed the series though, didn't think this episode was good at all due to things just being 'tied up' or being 'set up' for the next installment.

Needs to be more episodes, simple as.

I wouldn't like any more episodes because the production quality is what separates this from most tv shows and that'll be compromised by more episodes. HBO would need to be stumping up significantly more money to make that work and they're already hugely in the pot for the show as it is.

I think the issue of the pacing is defined by the fact that at its heart this show is The West Wing and not Lord of the Rings and the dragons, the magic and the zombies are always secondary to the characters; they're all just mirrors to tell us something about the desires and the fears of the cast.

The show would be best suited not to worry about pacing a season to an approximate book - fit in two full ones if it works or cut out even more if it makes for a better thoroughfare through the story.

WilhelmFink

God, why didn't I watch this show??

Degag

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

Was thinking this myself. I think the dance teacher could have escaped and transformed himself into Jaquin. That dude was seriously talented... even with a wooden sword.

Disappointed with the lack of Hound.

Will comment more tomorrow. Bedtime now!

johnnysmack

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

I dont think so as Jaquin says that being a "dance" teacher is a fine thing but its not the same level as what he is.

pixelburp

So I think it's fair to say that 'Winter' has arrived in Westeros; I guess it goes without saying that the factions won't simply put away their differences to fight this threat. And equally, I'm going to guess that as impressive and unstoppable that zombie force seemed, 5 bucks says when season 3 starts they'll have barely made any progress towards the wall.

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

quad_red

pixelburp wrote: »

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

Exactly what I thought. The dragons will be used to hold back the hordes of zombies/white walkers.

The vision Danerys had of the snow covered and ruined throne room at King's Landing was interesting.

Rabidlamb

Syferus wrote: »

The less said about the bizarre jumps in the Winterfell story the better, nor was Stannis' escape (he was isolated atop the wall, so unless he killed every last archer I fail to see how he was ending up anywhere but in a dungeon)

Winterfell was just a mess continuity wise, what reasoning was there for any of the character's decisions, random & daft.
The Stanis off screen escape really annoyed me, I remember him being attacked from behind near the end of episode 9, are these episodes not shown to test audiences beforehand
Tyrion's demotion seems a bit heavy handed aswell, fair enough that Joffery or Cersei tried to off him but there were many witnesses to his brave speech & deeds.

Besides these glaring errors I still loved the season as a whole, I reckon Charles Dance will give Dinklage a run for the Emmy this year.

thomond2006

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Winterfell was just a mess continuity wise, what reasoning was there for any of the character's decisions, random & daft.
The Stanis off screen escape really annoyed me, I remember him being attacked from behind near the end of episode 9, are these episodes not shown to test audiences beforehand
Tyrion's demotion seems a bit heavy handed aswell, fair enough that Joffery or Cersei tried to off him but there were many witnesses to his brave speech & deeds.

Besides these glaring errors I still loved the season as a whole, I reckon Charles Dance will give Dinklage a run for the Emmy this year.

Stannis was not attacked from behind, he was being restrained by his own men as his army was routed.

Syferus

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

stiffler123

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

Just because you like her doesn't mean everyone else has to. I find her incredibly annoying too. Would not mind her being killed off at all.

hypermuse

stiffler123 wrote: »

Just because you like her doesn't mean everyone else has to. I find her incredibly annoying too. Would not mind her being killed off at all.

yea I cant stand looking at her sad face all the time.. gets annoying after a while when a character just has the same emotion constantly!

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.