Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

podgemonster

hypermuse wrote: »

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.

Well in fairness her loving father was beheaded by her sadistic future husband and is tortured emotionally and physically by Joff frequently. She is also thousands of miles away from her mother and other siblings. She's a prisoner and a pawn in the game of thrones. She is surrounded with people can't trust and faced with the harsh realisation of everything she learned as child regarding nobility was a lie. She has my empathy.

The actress that plays does have a whiney voice though.

Newaglish

hypermuse wrote: »

yea I cant stand looking at her sad face all the time.. gets annoying after a while when a character just has the same emotion constantly!

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.

To be fair, you did get to see her smiling for about four seconds in this episode (before she was brought swiftly back down to earth)

pookiesboo

Ive been watching it properly this season, missed a lot in the first but really confused about some the characters etc.
Like those white walkers/others etc. Have they anything to do with the Wildlings or do I need a Game of Thrones For Dummies manual?!
Plus did Cersei advise Joffrey to not marry Sansa because shes feeling sorry for her or cos she still hates her?
I feel algebra is more understandable than this

Sleepy

The Walkers and Wildlings both live north of the wall but they're clearly different groups (as you can see from Osha's remarks that the armies are "marching the wrong way" i.e. they should be going north to deal with the walkers.

Cersei's "pleading" with Joffrey in the throne room was entirely staged to allow him to set aside Sansa for the politically more advantageous union with House Tyrell. Sansa's value is as a hostage (or conceivably should the Lannisters manage to win the war and kill all of the male Starks as an heir to Winterfell who could be married off to an ally allowing the Lannisters to take puppet control of the north). Certainly not valueless, but Margaery brings with her the swords and soldiers of a very wealthy family which, right now, is far more valuable to King Joffrey.

Funglegunk

pookiesboo wrote: »

Ive been watching it properly this season, missed a lot in the first but really confused about some the characters etc.
Like those white walkers/others etc. Have they anything to do with the Wildlings or do I need a Game of Thrones For Dummies manual?!
Plus did Cersei advise Joffrey to not marry Sansa because shes feeling sorry for her or cos she still hates her?
I feel algebra is more understandable than this

I think you need to watch the first season! The White Walkers are talked about a lot.

Cersei advised Joffrey not to marry Sansa because a marriage to Margaery Tyrell is much more advantageous politically (the Tyrells are the second most powerful family in Westeros after the Lannisters).

pookiesboo

Funglegunk wrote: »

I think you need to watch the first season! The White Walkers are talked about a lot.

Cersei advised Joffrey not to marry Sansa because a marriage to Margaery Tyrell is much more advantageous politically (the Tyrells are the second most powerful family in Westeros after the Lannisters).

Thanks! I have to rent the first season and watch again, theres a lot Im not getting

Professional Griefer

I'd rather marry her over Sansa tbh.

pookiesboo

Sleepy wrote: »

The Walkers and Wildlings both live north of the wall but they're clearly different groups (as you can see from Osha's remarks that the armies are "marching the wrong way" i.e. they should be going north to deal with the walkers.

Cersei's "pleading" with Joffrey in the throne room was entirely staged to allow him to set aside Sansa for the politically more advantageous union with House Tyrell. Sansa's value is as a hostage (or conceivably should the Lannisters manage to win the war and kill all of the male Starks as an heir to Winterfell who could be married off to an ally allowing the Lannisters to take puppet control of the north). Certainly not valueless, but Margaery brings with her the swords and soldiers of a very wealthy family which, right now, is far more valuable to King Joffrey.

Thanks, am not understanding a lot when Im watching tbh, must watch season 1 from scratch (over and over and over by the looks of it:o)

squonk

I rather liked this episode. The burning of Winterfell does surprise me a bit. I assumed that the Iron Islanders would have just left. If they weren't pushed about Theon they wouldn't have been too bothered with Winterfell either. You have to feel sorry for Theon though. Poor bastard! It was a great speech and I thought they were going to go out well but the arrow in the back was such a pathetic end to that.

Robb marrying the nurse was a bit odd IMHO. I know he's only supposed to be a teenager but as Lord of Winterfell I'd have thought he'd have been very mindful of the need for marriages as strategic alliances. There was absolutely nothing to stop him keeping the nurse as his real consort while having the Frey girl as the official wife. It seems a bit short sighted.

Regarding Sansa, I had one of those weeks last week where if I was in the middle of the Gobhi desert I'd have bumped into someone roaring out GoT plot spoilers. I stumbled across a few things by accident so I know what happens to Robb and I know how things pan out for Sansa so I wasn't surprised to see Marjorie become the new Queen in Waiting. Having said that, Sansa continues to piss me off. I know she's been brought up to be a girly girl. I've just started reading book 1 so there's a bit more on Sansa in there. I still say that Arya is two years her junior and a very capable girl. Right now she's effectively been fired, destined to be Joffrey's **** toy, had her father killed as well as her direwolf and she can see now also what Cersei is capable of with her own brother so why she's not making some effort to extricate herself I'll never know. Personally I'd rather die after being hunted down than sitting there and taking it. I can only assume that she'll take the 'thanks but no thanks' approach to Little Finger this time as well. If she's waiting for Robb to show up she could be waiting a very long time. I still think The Hound was a good bet for her. She's a dope pure and simple. Her chapters in the book are the most boring and it looks like her scenes in the show aren't up to much either.

I don't understand why Tyrion is now persona non-grata in Kings Landing. I'm sure Tywin was smart enough to know that Tyrion was the deciding factor in the battle. At least he could even see that he was there unlike Joffrey who ****ed off rather quickly. I just don't know Tywin's motivation. I'd imagine he'd rather have Tyrion around rather than dealing with Cersei and Joffy boy himself? S3 will be interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing Tywin as King's Hand. That was a great scene as he was being appointed. It was so obvious who the real power was there!

I'm disapointed they didn't show Mance myself. Just 10 seconds of a show would have been great. Thanks to those who filled me in on the White Walkers and the Wights earlier. I thought they were all white walkers. I need to rewatch S1 though, but after I read the book.

Not sure about Dany's storyline but at least it went somewhere which is more than could be said for a lot of this season with her. I'm a bit confused as to why the priest-magician guy didn't realise that she's be able to barbecue him with the dragons. It just seemed very contrived to me. I'd have expected him to have put up a better fight. Also, I didn't get the deal with Doxos' safe. It looked like he hadn't a penny to his name. I presume Danny can rout Qarth now and dig up some real money? By the sounds of it, Jorah didn't make it sound like a great boat could be bought with the bowl.

All in all a fair set up for S3. Can't wait really.

Boom_Bap

I thought it was a great ending to S2. There are some holes in the story, but I dont think they are enough to put me off. There are so many people/families involed in the story that I'd rather flick between each faster so that we know what is happening with everyone. If that means sacrificing the story behing Winterfell being on fire, then so be it. My assumptioon when watching was that the Ironmen had some sort of battle and got away. It's not the first time where battles are not shown and we cut to the aftermath.

Shapeshifting was awesome, I really hope that Arya follows him back to his land and trains in that 'art'.....and that we get to see that too.

I'm guessing that there will be a battle beyond the wall with the White Walkers and Wildlings and then the dragons will come along to sort everything out. We've seen that the dragons, well, one in particular, is getting decent with the dragons breath....and that is the way to kill the White Walkers. The Direwolves might come into play somehow there as well.

....I need to watch that last epsiode again tonight!

I've also picked up the first book, so that should help fill in some of the gaps for me.

Degag

Re Tywin replacing Tyrion as Hand. Doesn't Twyin hate Tyrion and it was very surprising that he was named Hand in the first place. Not really surprising that he didn't get any credit for winning the battle.

Syferus

I don't know how staged Joffrey's marriage acceptence was, honestly. Maybe they told him what he should do but after the Nedd debacle you could see everyone from Cersei to Varys looking skiddish when Joffrey initially refused.

Tywin named Tyrion Hand in his stead, Tywin was always the 'true' Hand of the King. Tywin was impressed with Tyrion's ingenuity in the battle at the end of season 1 and his relationship to him softened as a result. I'd imagine Tywin appreciates what Tyrion did to save King's Landing more than anyone else, even if he'll likely publically assume all the glory for himself. Tyrion might have more of a friend in his father than he or us thinks, even telling him Cersei tried to have him killed would likely prevent her from trying again as the last thing Tywin would want is something as salacious as fratricide fuelling yet more rumours about the Lannisters.

Loved Tywin's horse talking a dump outside the throne room, too.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

Look at Arya; she's younger and grew up beside Sansa and yet she has the intelligence and bravery to when the time has come to act. Age doesn't even come into it.

Sansa was a cowering, monotone presence throughout most of the season - even if this is as it was write in the books her character needed more development, not in what happened to her, but in how she reacted. Infuriating the viewer by in-action isn't the advisable course to take so many times in succession.

CastorTroy

Was Little Finger awarded Harrenhahl? "For your loyal service you get this destroyed castle!"

As for Sansa, I think there's a reason for her to stay. Tyrion picked up on it previously when he offered help and she refused it. He said something like "You'll make it here after all". So if Tyrion sees something in her then I'll stick with his judgement.

Or maybe she's just biding her time until she can kill Joffrey.

molloyjh

wingnut wrote: »

Standard siege terms give us your leader and the rest of you can go home.

Killing the people and burning the place down kinds of flies in the face of that though. Like a lot of people I found that bit annoying. I'm assuming it'll be explained in S3 though. The plot lines have been quite detailed up until now. A slip up like that would be huge. I can't see that happening.....hopefully.

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

Season 3 is nine months away

9 months!? Ah nuts. :mad:

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Does anyone else remember that when Tyrion went to her and gave her the opportunity to speak openly she refused, doing her "Jeoffery is my one true love" lark, and Tyrion smiled and said that he thought she would outlive them all.

She trusts absolutely no one in Kings Landing. And she's right not to. She needs to keep her head down and keep saying the right things. And that's what she is doing. For as long as the Lannisters are at war with the Starks (and Jamie is still captive, to their knowledge) she is safe. I've found her story line, particularly the relationship with Cersei, really interesting. One one hand Ceresei is the Queen and doesn't care a damn about her, but yet on the other hand she has complete sympathy for her.

pixelburp wrote: »

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

I don't think this is coincidental at all. From what I've gathered it's been generations since either the dragons or walkers have been seen, so long in fact that people don't really believe in either any more. After what we saw last night I reckon that a lot of what happens in intertwined (the guy in the House of the Undying said their power grew with the arrival of the dragons for example). I reckon the dragons appear at the same time as the Walkers for good reason.

squonk

CastorTroy wrote: »

Was Little Finger awarded Harrenhahl? "For your loyal service you get this destroyed castle!"

Yeah he was! Harenhal is a ****hole! What's he going to do now? I can't see him leaving Kings Landing. Was it one of these 'give him some piece of crap to look after just to get the ****er out from under our feet' kind of bestowings?

MikeCork2009

Brilliant episode and sets up Season 3 very well.

Great to see Dany back on track and the White Walkers finally coming to the fore (since the very first episode)

I wonder will season 3 be more magic orientated? Season 1 and 2 seemed to be about the plans and battles of men and kings (and I know there is still the matter of Robb coming for Joffrey) however, season 2's end set up the return of magic (like the warlock said) Dany coming with her dragons, Jacqn changing his face, and was it just me or did they make a lot of the eyes i.e. the flames in the eyes of the red lady and Stannis and the frozen icy eyes of the White Walker on the horse!!!

Can't wait for season 3

Sleepy

Harrenhall may be a ruin but he was also given "all it's attendant lands and titles". Given that he's already a relatively wealthy self-made man and that such attendant lands would come with bannermen etc. Harrenhall actually makes him a moderately powerful lord. Castles can be rebuilt. I mean, do you honestly see the series ending without work at least starting on re-building Winterfell?

mikemac1

squonk wrote: »

I don't understand why Tyrion is now persona non-grata in Kings Landing. I'm sure Tywin was smart enough to know that Tyrion was the deciding factor in the battle. At least he could even see that he was there unlike Joffrey who ****ed off rather quickly. I just don't know Tywin's motivation. I'd imagine he'd rather have Tyrion around rather than dealing with Cersei and Joffy boy himself?

Tyrion and Joffrey both stood on the battlements but one was brave and the other was a coward

I suppose to hoist up Tyrion and praise him would take away praise from Joffrey.
And that can't be done, the King is always right. Even when is wrong he is right.
The people already hate him, he was caught in that riot and if news went around he was cowardly the city might act on the weakness

So as far as the plebs are concerned, Joffrey and Tywin won the battle.
It was Joffrey who led his men

Syferus

The reality has to be that everyone already knows what Tyrion did and that Joffrey ran, it's just the people in power and who they deal with that'll live in fantasy land, it was far too public to keep a lid on something like that. Hundreds of soldiers, mostly peasant class men, saw it all unfold and there's no way you keep all of them quiet.

It's almost entirely the same situation as Joffrey styling himself as the son of Robert when every village in the land knows he's the son of Cersei and Jaime.

Ambient Occlusion

For anyone wondering about what happened at Winterfell and that doesn't want any spoilers, don't worry. It all makes sense and the explanation is being left until season three for a good reason.

Yeah he was! Harenhal is a ****hole! What's he going to do now? I can't see him leaving Kings Landing. Was it one of these 'give him some piece of crap to look after just to get the ****er out from under our feet' kind of bestowings?

Nope, Harrenhal is the greatest fortress in the Seven Kingdoms, IIRC, even in the state that it's in. It also commands to most fertile lands in all of Westeros and is therefore the most lucrative region in terms of profit to be made.

Syferus

I don't think there is a reason in existence that could justify the jarring cuts in the finale.

Even if it was written in the books a certain way what we saw on television did not work on an objective level. If this is what following the way the storyline is laid out in the books leads to I hope they're even more ruthless in cutting their own way through the world next season.

pixelburp

It might have made sense in the context of a mid-season episode, but ending a season on such an apparent continuity gaff was a bit jarring.

twinex

Has anyone any thoughts on the Hound??, I really thought Sansa was going to leave with him and head north.I think that would have really given both characters huge potential for development. I hope he doesn't just fade away......

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Syferus wrote: »

I don't think there is a reason in existence that could justify the jarring cuts in the finale.

Even if it was written in the books a certain way what we saw on television did not work on an objective level. If this is what following the way the storyline is laid out in the books leads to I hope they're even more ruthless in cutting their own way through the world next season.

they have changed and left out quite a bit of stuff for the tv series and even with that there's just so much to cover they dont have the time to give everything a proper seeing to. its pretty unavoidable that it'll be scene QUICK JUMP TO THE NEXT ****ING SCENE WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME scene, etc etc
hopefully the budget gets increased soon and we get more eps per season

pauldoo

For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books

ziedth

LordSmeg wrote: »

But when he left in the final episode he changed his appearance and said "farewell my little stark". Aria also mentioned her teacher was from the same place.

I thought there may have been more to the exchange.

I thought that too,

Plus he knew the names of all those she would want dead. He knew her name and I found it odd she would bring up the dancing teacher at all. Either way it was a great scene and I think he is the most interesting character. Hope he comes into it in S3.

FrostyJack

ziedth wrote: »

I thought that too,

Plus he knew the names of all those she would want dead. He knew her name and I found it odd she would bring up the dancing teacher at all. Either way it was a great scene and I think he is the most interesting character. Hope he comes into it in S3.

Pretty sure it isn't him, though it would be great if it was, he says that Dancing is a different skill. My main issue was why was Danerys clothes not burned off in the dragon scene, not because of physics or anything, but why were they not burned off

Mance Rayder

pauldoo wrote: »

For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books

Although I am enjoying the TV series, It pales in comparison to the books. So much of the really good stuff is left out.

Witcher

I hope Syrio Forel shows up again, seeing him taking on soldiers with a wooden sword and his words to Arya (What do we say to the god of death?....) while Trant moved in on him....epic.

Mickeroo

I just watched episode 9 & 10 back to back. Didn't think i could handle a week long gap between them. 9 was epic and 10 sets up the next season nicely.

I'm also confused about who burned Winterfell though, it was surrrounded so I don't think it was the iron islanders, must have been some sort of betrayal by yerman from paths to freedom's bastard? All will be revealed I suppose. Also annoyed that they made us think Sansa went with The Hound only to show up in the hall the next day. Was surprised at the hound deserting, hope he ramains a prominent figure though. Oh and how the hell did Stannis escape? I thought that was Lannister men dragging him away, evidently not though. Also would have been nice to know if Der Davos and his son were definitely dead or not?

Half way through book 1 now and will be reading A Clash of Kings straight after, would I be right in thinking some of these events will be much clearer in the book?

Will be hard not to go straight into Storm of Swords until after season 3, especially if the season ends up only being half the book!

Scioch

FrostyJack wrote: »

Pretty sure it isn't him, though it would be great if it was, he says that Dancing is a different skill. My main issue was why was Danerys clothes not burned off in the dragon scene, not because of physics or anything, but why were they not burned off

She was asking him to show her how to kill though. The "dancing" the other guy was showing Arya was just to sword fight.

Both from the same place, he knew who Arya was and her beef with all the Lannisters not just Tywin.

He also left Kings Landing the same time as Arya too didnt he ? Could have changed his face ended up being transported as a prisoner.

Took a keen interest in Arya from the start. Stayed in the cage he surely could have gotten out of as he's quite a skilled and sneaky individual.

Ambient Occlusion

pauldoo wrote: »

For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books

It's best not to know really. If you truly want to enjoy the TV series, I advise against reading the books because you will only end up comparing them. Saying that, I'd say definitely go back and read each book after watching each one's respective series. It'd be much more satisfying doing it that way.

Mickeroo

LordSmeg wrote: »

She was asking him to show her how to kill though. The "dancing" the other guy was showing Arya was just to sword fight.

Both from the same place, he knew who Arya was and her beef with all the Lannisters not just Tywin.

He also left Kings Landing the same time as Arya too didnt he ? Could have changed his face ended up being transported as a prisoner.

Took a keen interest in Arya from the start. Stayed in the cage he surely could have gotten out of as he's quite a skilled and sneaky individual.

After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.

Scioch

Mickeroo wrote: »

After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.

I may read the books. I dont want to start looking up spoilers. Once I start I wont stop and I'll just read the books through spoilers before the next season starts anyway.

Wetbench4

I think season 1 was pretty close to the books but season 2 had quite a lot cut out and quite alot changed, and not for the better. I personally would recommend reading the books before the tv series, because the books are the real deal, and you don't want to have previous knowledge of the tv show tainting the AMAZING experience of reading the books for the first time. I've never read lord of the rings, but all the people i know who've read that and a song of ice and fire, say that asoiaf is better.

calex71

Mickeroo wrote: »

After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.

You're not the only one

calex71

Wetbench4 wrote: »

I think season 1 was pretty close to the books but season 2 had quite a lot cut out and quite alot changed, and not for the better. I personally would recommend reading the books before the tv series, because the books are the real deal, and you don't want to have previous knowledge of the tv show tainting the AMAZING experience of reading the books for the first time. I've never read lord of the rings, but all the people i know who've read that and a song of ice and fire, say that asoiaf is better.

True re: season 1, folks could nearly skip it and start on book 2 it's so close. Changes made were for the most part for TV / Budget reasons though I'm still scratching my head over some of them. Reading the books first is a double edged sword, ok they are better but a different media and take more time to get through, if you haven't read them you expect nothing of the TV series and enjoy it for what it is and know no better, you also run the risk of becoming one of "those" people who harp on about the books

FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring

Syferus

I think book readers are lionising the importance of the books too much and giving too little thought to format; the fact is television narrative and book narrative are entirely unique things. What looks good on paper can be ham-fisted and absurd in a visual medium.

I'm watching a television show; what it's based on is of little consequence to my enjoyment. If a better show can be made from being less reverential to the source material I'm all for it - this is a revision of the author's original work there's always the opportunity to make improvements with the benefit of hindsight.

The beautiful acting, design and spectacle of the show make it the better creation, for me.

Funglegunk

calex71 wrote: »

FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring

I'd say they could get to the end of the 3rd season by spending about the same as they did with Lord of the Rings! Each season of GOT costs ~$65 million, LOTR trilogy was $180 million. (Good blog post on all the financial stuff here.)

Sleepy

calex71 wrote:

FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring

It's a crying shame really. If the money wasted on the whining hobbits had been much more wisely spent on ASOIAF we could have had our 24 episodes per book show without so many changes for budget's sake instead. :P

golfball37

HBO confirmed a while back that book 3 would be done over 2 seasons so we should see a better more rounded story next year. My big complaint about season 2 overall was that it felt very rushed.

Still compelling and easily the best thing on TV at the moment however.

thehairyone

From what ive been reading on this and other forums. Most book readers seem to accept the big changes that have had to be made due to budget constraints. I think what most people feel a bit annoyed about are the few very small changes that have been made that do not appear to be due to budget constraints and seem to make the story more confusing and not as good as the books. I dont think its a coincidence that most people (book and non book readers) seemed to prefer the first series which stuck closer to the source material. While some character arcs have been improved by the TV series (Daenerys as an example) some have been made worse due to silly changes.

IMO there is no need to deviate much from the storyline of the first 3 books of the series (except for budget reasons). I think they are a masterclass of suspense and storytelling. However, books 4 and 5 are a different story.

Liamalone

Sleepy wrote: »

It's a crying shame really. If the money wasted on the whining hobbits had been much more wisely spent on ASOIAF we could have had our 24 episodes per book show without so many changes for budget's sake instead. :P

lol LOTR is the Daddy!

Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.

WindmillWarrior

Liamalone wrote: »

lol LOTR is the Daddy!

Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.

Another 2 scheduled books to go. Though a lot of people wouldnt be surprised if it took another 3 to finish it!

Sleepy

Liamalone wrote: »

lol LOTR is the Daddy!

Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.

I'm one of those oddities that considers LOTR to be badly written tripe tbh, I only added the smiley's because expressing that opinion on an internet forum is usually akin to throwing a grenade in real life. Some people really dislike anything negative being said about the "one true" fantasy series... :rolleyes:

There's no way GRRM can finish in two books imo. Even his wife tends to hold up 3 fingers behind his back when he's saying it'll be finished in two!

fitz

I can't see how he's going to wrap it up in two more books. I reckon it'll be three more, for a grand total of eight.

Be prepared to wait for book 6 though.
On the plus side, reading ASOIAF, and seeing what Martin puts his characters through, is a particularly good primer for reading Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. Ten books in total, the series is complete, and if you thought Martin was ruthless....
Erikson has a far higher quota of fling-the-book-across-the-room moments.

fitz

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm one of those oddities that considers LOTR to be badly written tripe tbh, I only added the smiley's because expressing that opinion on an internet forum is usually akin to throwing a grenade in real life. Some people really dislike anything negative being said about the "one true" fantasy series... :rolleyes:

I don't think it's tripe, it's a great story, but it's not well written. By Return of the King, it devolved into self indulgent prose with little or no characterisation.

Dermighty

golfball37 wrote: »

Still compelling and easily the best thing on TV at the moment however.

Mad Men and The Borgias equally have that title for me.

The entire dragon queen story line is so boring I feel, especially the sorcerers death, it really felt rushed.

Syferus

I'd agree that Mad Men is the only show I'd put ahead of Game of Thrones, but Boardwalk Empire is a close third, it came into the world as fully formed as Game of Thrones and has maintained a level of consistency over its first two season that very few shows ever have.

I've been meaning to watch The Borgias but I wasn't assuming it to be on the same level as GoT or Mad Men.

The dragons stuff sit somewhat uncomfortably with me but the idea they're return has sparked a magic revival is quite interesting, and I like the swiftness of the resolution in the finale - I was afraid they'd leave Danys locked up to end the season and drag it out.

Likewise her quest to become a true leader and queen has a lot of potential, and had her inevitable battle to restore the honour of her family, particularly once we reach Westeros.

Wetbench4

Syferus wrote: »

I'm watching a television show; what it's based on is of little consequence to my enjoyment. If a better show can be made from being less reverential to the source material I'm all for it - this is a revision of the author's original work there's always the opportunity to make improvements with the benefit of hindsight.

The beautiful acting, design and spectacle of the show make it the better creation, for me.

Ya i see your point. I only read the books after watching season 1, which blew me away, but in my opinion the story is the most important bit, not the format or how much show for money they can get. The only reason there is a show at all is because of the story, and if they keep changing it then its not the same story that HBO took the risk on in the first place, if you get what i mean.

The bit that most annoyed me about season 2 was jaime killing his cousin in the stockade. [Book 2 spoiler]

That was not in the book and totally out of character and jaime would not have done that, even though he did push bran out the window which was more impulse than sense.

There are loads of changes like that in season 2 which alter the characters a little too much for me. All in all its still the top tv show for me at the moment, must check out breaking bad and madmen. I've heard lots of talk about those shows.