Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

titan18

Syferus wrote: »

I think book readers are lionising the importance of the books too much and giving too little thought to format; the fact is television narrative and book narrative are entirely unique things. What looks good on paper can be ham-fisted and absurd in a visual medium.

I'm watching a television show; what it's based on is of little consequence to my enjoyment. If a better show can be made from being less reverential to the source material I'm all for it - this is a revision of the author's original work there's always the opportunity to make improvements with the benefit of hindsight.

The beautiful acting, design and spectacle of the show make it the better creation, for me.

Not a shot is the TV show better than the books. Have you even read the books?

I'd also disagree a better show is being made for being less reverential to the source material. Whilst some changes need to be made due to the budget and the medium, others do not.

Liamalone

Can speak for Mad nor the Borgias as I haven't seen them but Breaking Bad is the best show that I have seen.

Yes, even better than Corrie :P

titan18

Liamalone wrote: »

Can speak for Mad nor the Borgias as I haven't seen them but Breaking Bad is the best show that I have seen.

Yes, even better than Corrie :P

Aye, Breaking Bad is the best show on TV. By a long way imo too

Another crappy season and what i mean by crappy is its a constant series of short films that are lumped together telling us absolutely nothing. I think i will give up now and just read the books as for the first time in history i think the books will move along quicker then the TV series. In one whole season, the knights watch go over the wall and Jon Snow gets captured, this is about as tedious as lord of the rings.

Could they have not have split up the TV show and given the characters the time they deserve? I think i am just going to skip season 3 and just go with the books.

Scioch

Heard so much about Breaking Bad I gave it a watch. Watched it for about 3 series I think but lost interest.

Its a good show but highly overrated in my opinion. I found some of the characters incredibly hard to watch. Guys wife and his snivelling rat of side kick put me off the show when the wife became more prominent and the rat continued to be a rat. Seemingly accepted and defended at every turn putting a guys family in danger who's sole reason for being was to protect and provide for his family. Made no sense to me.

Lost interest in Boarkwalk Empire too have a few episodes, I think it was a victim of too much hype too. Friends have told me it really picked up since, I may go back to it at some stage.

Game Of Thrones is great in that it already has a great story to run with and doesnt need fillers for the sake of filler to stretch out a series so isnt prone to the weak story lines in other shows.

krudler

LordSmeg wrote: »

Heard so much about Breaking Bad I gave it a watch. Watched it for about 3 series I think but lost interest.

Its a good show but highly overrated in my opinion. I found some of the characters incredibly hard to watch. Guys wife and his snivelling rat of side kick put me off the show when the wife became more prominent and the rat continued to be a rat. Seemingly accepted and defended at every turn putting a guys family in danger who's sole reason for being was to protect and provide for his family. Made no sense to me.

Lost interest in Boarkwalk Empire too have a few episodes, I think it was a victim of too much hype too. Friends have told me it really picked up since, I may go back to it at some stage.

Game Of Thrones is great in that it already has a great story to run with and doesnt need fillers for the sake of filler to stretch out a series so isnt prone to the weak story lines in other shows.

Breaking Bad season 4 is amazing, one of the best season finales I've ever seen, how it builds up so everything falls into place is astounding writing.

Mickeroo

Deleted User wrote: »

Another crappy season and what i mean by crappy is its a constant series of short films that are lumped together telling us absolutely nothing. I think i will give up now and just read the books as for the first time in history i think the books will move along quicker then the TV series. In one whole season, the knights watch go over the wall and Jon Snow gets captured, this is about as tedious as lord of the rings.

Could they have not have split up the TV show and given the characters the time they deserve? I think i am just going to skip season 3 and just go with the books.

How do mean split it up? Its an ensemble piece, no different to any other large ensemble show. There was whole episodes of the wire where major characters wouldn't appear and this is no different. Characters that don't appear to get the time they deserve no will have their moments as their respective plotlines develop.

Readers of the book have said season 2 finishes where book 2 finished so I'm not sure how reading the books will make it move faster other than you'll be able to read ahead, but again you can do that with any book to film/tv adaptation.

There'll be more character development in the book I'm sure though.

Scioch

Deleted User wrote: »

Another crappy season and what i mean by crappy is its a constant series of short films that are lumped together telling us absolutely nothing. I think i will give up now and just read the books as for the first time in history i think the books will move along quicker then the TV series. In one whole season, the knights watch go over the wall and Jon Snow gets captured, this is about as tedious as lord of the rings.

Could they have not have split up the TV show and given the characters the time they deserve? I think i am just going to skip season 3 and just go with the books.

Bit more happened than that. And with the amount of story lines in it they cant devote any more time to the characters or the show wouldnt actually move along at all and it would lose its great production quality if it was stretched out over a longer season I think.

As someone who hasnt read the books I think its an excellent TV show.

Scioch

krudler wrote: »

Breaking Bad season 4 is amazing, one of the best season finales I've ever seen, how it builds up so everything falls into place is astounding writing.

I might wander back to it but it better get good or I'll be back to badmouth it severely.

Dermighty

For all its production value and cast this show is just not compelling, I've yet to watch an episode where I give a **** about the next episode to come. I could name ten tv shows where that has happened.

I watch it because it's critically acclaimed and I'm sure it'll have a good resolution. How this show didn't at least get near cancellation compared to some other shows which have been cancelled I'll never know.

I'm a deadwood fan so here's a biased example: Game of Thrones versus Deadwood, it's not even a contest, Deadwood combined authenticity, quality, good acting, good story with an actual plot which felt like it was going somewhere. Game of Thrones is missing a few of those qualities, namely the acting!

As an aside, The Borgias (with Jeremy Irons) is awesome!

Dubhlinner

Tywin's horse taking a dump in court was a nice touch.

I reckon Tywin doesn't know of Tyrion's bravery and ingenuity during the battle. He kept the wildfire plan a secret up to the last. Cersei was planning to have it launched at ships.

Still it seems a bit daft Tyrion would get no recognition. From what we've seen of Tywin so far he would have been proud of what Tyrion did.

Boom_Bap

Dermighty wrote: »

For all its production value and cast this show is just not compelling, I've yet to watch an episode where I give a **** about the next episode to come. I could name ten tv shows where that has happened.

I watch it because it's critically acclaimed and I'm sure it'll have a good resolution. How this show didn't at least get near cancellation compared to some other shows which have been cancelled I'll never know.

Example: Game of Thrones versus Deadwood, it's not even a contest, Deadwood combined authenticity, quality, good acting, good story with an actual plot which felt like it was going somewhere. Game of Thrones is missing a few of those qualities.

Cancelling of a show in the USA is never really down to the quality of the show, it's a ratings and network free for all.
Game of Thrones has a huge following so it will go on until the ratings drop, or until there is an end.

Boom_Bap

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Tywin's horse taking a dump in court was a nice touch.

I reckon Tywin doesn't know of Tyrion's bravery and ingenuity during the battle. He kept the wildfire plan a secret up to the last. Cersei was planning to have it launched at ships.

Still it seems a bit daft Tyrion would get no recognition. From what we've seen of Tywin so far he would have been proud of what Tyrion did.

But they had to cover up what Tyrion has done so that Tywin can become The Hand without an uprising. I think that was all explained in Tyrions room at the start of the episode.

Dubhlinner

Boom_Bap wrote: »

But they had to cover up what Tyrion has done so that Tywin can become The Hand without an uprising. I think that was all explained in Tyrions room at the start of the episode.

I don't see why. Tyrion was just acting hand as well as being seriously injured. I don't really see how there's be political fall out over him resuming his role

Funglegunk

Dubhlinner wrote: »

I don't see why. Tyrion was just acting hand as well as being seriously injured. I don't really see how there's be political fall out over him resuming his role

Agreed, I think Tywin is just claiming the victory to weaken Tyrion's position at court. If Tyrion was known as the 'Saviour of the City', that would give him more clout than Tywin would like.

ziedth

It will be interesting to see but that doesn't seem "right" with the kind of character they have portrayed Tywin as.

He did save the day, the battle was lost until he rode in. I don't see how Tywin benefits from shafting Tyrion in such a way.

He gave him the acting hand position because Tyrion impressed him. Why he would all but banish him for being so brave doesn't make sense.

Until I see otherwise I'm taking it that Tywin doesn't know about the finer details of the battle.

pixelburp

I agree; I doubt Tywin knows the full extent of what happened during the siege. Certainly, I can't imagine he knows much of Joffrey's actions on the battlements. Besides, if anything, Tywin strikes as the kind of man who would have positively embraced Tyrion were he to know of his son's bravery in battle, not shun him & have him sent to the fringes. A Lannister bringing glory in battle? Top dog surely in Papa Lannister's book.

Ambient Occlusion

ziedth wrote: »

It will be interesting to see but that doesn't seem "right" with the kind of character they have portrayed Tywin as.

He did save the day, the battle was lost until he rode in. I don't see how Tywin benefits from shafting Tyrion in such a way.

He gave him the acting hand position because Tyrion impressed him. Why he would all but banish him for being so brave doesn't make sense.

Until I see otherwise I'm taking it that Tywin doesn't know about the finer details of the battle.

You have to remember that in Tywin's eyes, Tyrion is as he himself admitted "a bastard". He has also been carousing with Shae in clear defiance of Twyin's wishes and also threatened Tommen (Mockingly, but he still threatened him). Tywin is a man that gets what he wants and expects to always be obeyed which is personified in "The Rains of Castamere". Also, while Tyrion had a large impact on the battle it was Cersei's idea to use the wildfire and as you said, Tywin and the Tyrells saved the day.

Syferus

It was Joffrey's idea to build up more wildfire, not Cersei's. Indeed it seems purposely meant to echo the Mad King, who was the one who first started stockpiling it.

Either way it was Tyrion's intelligence that saved Joffrey from setting fire to the city with it, his plan was to drop it from the battlements or fire it at them. Very little of the wildfire credit would pass to Joffrey in Tywin's eyes.

Tywin would have been lucky to live to see another day, let alone save it, had Tyrion not blown most of Stannis' fleet to pieces.

I forsee alot of tension between Tywin and Joffrey next season.

evil_seed

Syferus wrote: »

I forsee alot of tension between Tywin and Joffrey next season.

More slaps :D

wayne040576

The one thing they haven't really shown well in the TV series is the fact that all of the Lannisters except maybe for Jamie hate Tyrion. including his father and they'll stop at nothing to humiliate him. remember the story he told in season 1 about his first wife?

Syferus

wayne040576 wrote: »

The one thing they haven't really shown well in the TV series is the fact that all of the Lannisters except maybe for Jamie hate Tyrion. including his father and they'll stop at nothing to humiliate him. remember the story he told in season 1 about his first wife?

That's pretty clearly been shown. Tywin set Tyrion to sink or swim in the battle at the end of season 1, Cersei is continually adversarial and ancillary characters like Lancel try their best to follow suit.

wayne040576

Syferus wrote: »

That's pretty clearly been shown. Tywin set Tyrion to sink or swim in the battle at the end of season 1, Cersei is continually adversarial and ancillary characters like Lancel try their best to follow suit.

A lot of people still don't know why he got no recognition for what he did during the battle.

stevenmu

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Cancelling of a show in the USA is never really down to the quality of the show, it's a ratings and network free for all.
Game of Thrones has a huge following so it will go on until the ratings drop, or until there is an end.

It's a little different with HBO because they're a subscription channel. They don't rely on advertising so ratings don't affect them directly. They rely on their reputation as being a provider of premium TV shows to drive subscriptions, and they have been known to keep shows which don't get great ratings but do generate lots of hype and critical praise. It helps drive their reputation, which in turn drives subscriptions, and after that they don't really care is people actually watch or not. Of course ratings are a good measure of how interested their subscribers are in GoT so they are still important, just not the whole picture.

Ambient Occlusion

Syferus wrote: »

It was Joffrey's idea to build up more wildfire, not Cersei's.

I'm not sure if they changed it in the show, I can't remember, but in the books it was without a doubt Cersei that had the pyromancers make more wildfire. It doesn't seem likely to me, even in the show, that the thought would even occur to Joffrey.
I'm not sure either if, in the show, you've been told about Tyrion's mother. If so read on.

As Tyrion's mother died during childbirth, Twyin blames Tyrion for killing his mother and hasn't forgiven him to this day.

Tywin really isn't going to offer a lot of gratitude to Tyrion publicly or privately for this reason.

Boom_Bap

Dubhlinner wrote: »

I don't see why. Tyrion was just acting hand as well as being seriously injured. I don't really see how there's be political fall out over him resuming his role

Funglegunk wrote: »

Agreed, I think Tywin is just claiming the victory to weaken Tyrion's position at court. If Tyrion was known as the 'Saviour of the City', that would give him more clout than Tywin would like.

But he had a bad rep already from loosing all the battles with the Starks. He needed a win, and no easier get one than by taking one from your injured son who you can hide in a room away from everyone, while taking his 'Hand'

stevenmu wrote: »

It's a little different with HBO because they're a subscription channel. They don't rely on advertising so ratings don't affect them directly. They rely on their reputation as being a provider of premium TV shows to drive subscriptions, and they have been known to keep shows which don't get great ratings but do generate lots of hype and critical praise. It helps drive their reputation, which in turn drives subscriptions, and after that they don't really care is people actually watch or not. Of course ratings are a good measure of how interested their subscribers are in GoT so they are still important, just not the whole picture.

HBO canned How To Make It In America base on ratings i believe, the same with Bored To Death. 2 excellent shows.

golfball37

Ambient Occlusion wrote: »

I'm not sure if they changed it in the show, I can't remember, but in the books it was without a doubt Cersei that had the pyromancers make more wildfire. It doesn't seem likely to me, even in the show, that the thought would even occur to Joffrey.
I'm not sure either if, in the show, you've been told about Tyrion's mother. If so read on.

As Tyrion's mother died during childbirth, Twyin blames Tyrion for killing his mother and hasn't forgiven him to this day.

Tywin really isn't going to offer a lot of gratitude to Tyrion publicly or privately for this reason.

Cersei says to Tyrion in the TV show, that she died giving birth to YOU, a dwarf. Or words to that effect.
It was made obvious that the family [maybe not Jamie] resent him for this.

Mickeroo

Boom_Bap wrote: »

HBO canned How To Make It In America base on ratings i believe, the same with Bored To Death. 2 excellent shows.

Didn't know Bored to Death wasn't getting a 3rd season

I think I read somewhere that Treme got a third season even though its ratings weren't great.

Ambient Occlusion

golfball37 wrote: »

Cersei says to Tyrion in the TV show, that she died giving birth to YOU, a dwarf. Or words to that effect.
It was made obvious that the family [maybe not Jamie] resent him for this.

Exactly, which explains why Tywin left little acknowledgement of his "bastard's" achievement.

Syferus

We have little concept of that being the case, don't count your chickens before they lay.

pickarooney

Mickeroo wrote: »

Didn't know Bored to Death wasn't getting a 3rd season

I think I read somewhere that Treme got a third season even though its ratings weren't great.

It did get a third season (and it was the best one IMO), but not a fourth.

Mickeroo

pickarooney wrote: »

It did get a third season (and it was the best one IMO), but not a fourth.

You've just made my day!!

JonnyF

can't believe BTD got cancelled, really going to miss those characters. Think it's some of Ted Danson's best work

squonk

Absolutely! BTD was one of the best comedy shows I've seen in a long time. I'd rather have seen Season 4 of BTD than Girls which is a new show. BTD had great and very likeable characters, even if they sometimes frustrated you. Girls has lost me already because I've developed an intense dislike of the main character. Were I in the chair at HBO, Girls would be axed right now and BTD would be back for S4 next Jan! Girls and Veep should be axed. I'm a bit miffed that quality like BTD fell to make way for such bad new shows.

steve9859

pickarooney wrote: »

It did get a third season (and it was the best one IMO), but not a fourth.

Do you know if series 3 gets closure on any of the storylines? Or are viewers going to have to turn to the book to finish it off.

1 season doesnt seem long to finish everything up, not least the invasion by 'whats-her-name' with her 3 dragons

longhalloween

steve9859 wrote: »

Do you know if series 3 gets closure on any of the storylines? Or are viewers going to have to turn to the book to finish it off.

1 season doesnt seem long to finish everything up, not least the invasion by 'whats-her-name' with her 3 dragons

theyre talking about bored to death, not game of thrones.

golfball37

HBO confirmed some time ago that the 3rd book would be done over 2 seasons. Back on GoT now.

Funglegunk

golfball37 wrote: »

HBO confirmed some time ago that the 3rd book would be done over 2 seasons. Back on GoT now.

Two seasons of 10 episodes each. The scripts for season 3 are long finished and submitted, shooting begins in July. George Martin wrote the 7th episode. Season 3 airs April of next year. /infodump

Morf3h

I thought it was one of the worst season finales I'd ever seen.

They just piled a load of crap into the episode to fill out stories. It was all over the place and very rushed. Didn't enjoy it at all. They could have done a double bill like a lot of other shows that would have made it much easier to watch.

Maybe I'm missing something as I haven't read the books but I was just asking myself "how did that happen so fast" or "how'd they get there" etc.

I loved the show so far though and will wait for season 3 with anticipation!

Morf3h

Syferus wrote: »

It's almost entirely the same situation as Joffrey styling himself as the son of Robert when every village in the land knows he's the son of Cersei and Jaime.

Wait isn't he Robert's bastard son?

kryogen

Morf3h wrote: »

Wait isn't he Robert's bastard son?

Well, he is supposed to be Roberts legitimate son actually.

He is the fruit of incest of course.

Morf3h

kryogen wrote: »

Well, he is supposed to be Roberts legitimate son actually.

He is the fruit of incest of course.

Ah yes, a game the whole family can play!

lordgoat

Funglegunk wrote: »

Agreed, I think Tywin is just claiming the victory to weaken Tyrion's position at court. If Tyrion was known as the 'Saviour of the City', that would give him more clout than Tywin would like.

Syferus wrote: »

That's pretty clearly been shown. Tywin set Tyrion to sink or swim in the battle at the end of season 1, Cersei is continually adversarial and ancillary characters like Lancel try their best to follow suit.

All the Lannisters hate Tyrion. If it was clearly shown on the show you wouldn't have people asking why didn't poor Tyrion get any praise.

Also I love how Tyrion is so well liked in the non-book threads.

Morf3h wrote: »

Wait isn't he Robert's bastard son?

Seriously if you've missed what is arguably one of the most important and most obvious facts of the show and you've watched 2 seasons of it, go back and watch them again.

Or better yet get the books.

Dempsey

lordgoat wrote: »

All the Lannisters hate Tyrion. If it was clearly shown on the show you wouldn't have people asking why didn't poor Tyrion get any praise.

Also I love how Tyrion is so well liked in the non-book threads.

Tywin & Cersei hate Tyrion because he caused the death of his mother, Tywin's wife & Cersei & Jamie's mother. Jamie is the only one that genuinely cares about him.

Tywin only took an interest in getting Tyrion back from the Starks because he was a Lannister and it reflects badly on the family name if they can be taken advantage of. Tyrion was never going to get official credit at the expense of Tywin and definitely not at the expense of the King.

Dozen Wicked Words

Morf3h wrote: »

I thought it was one of the worst season finales I'd ever seen.

They just piled a load of crap into the episode to fill out stories. It was all over the place and very rushed. Didn't enjoy it at all. They could have done a double bill like a lot of other shows that would have made it much easier to watch.

Maybe I'm missing something as I haven't read the books but I was just asking myself "how did that happen so fast" or "how'd they get there" etc.

I loved the show so far though and will wait for season 3 with anticipation!

I still enjoyed it but agree a lot of things happened in a couple of minutes of screen time each and did feel rushed at times, particularly the doings a transpiring in Qarth.

A couple of minutes and Dany has her dragons back, Jon Snow is well in with the Wildings after killing Qhorin, Winterfells in a bad way, Luwin gets killed, the people surrounding said stronghold appear to have vanished, Tyrions disgraced, Sansa is no longer going to marry Joffrey, he has a new squeeze, Robb Starks married the woman hes not supposed to, Stannis is p*ssed off but still well into fires and Jaqen H'ghar says cheerio and the White Walkers are on the move, with the larger group scene looking decidedly naff. Could easily, and maybe should have had another episode flushing out all these storylines, but it all costs money I suppose!

nyarlothothep

Wow, saw episodes 5-10 in a batch, and wow...best series since TNG. I've watched plenty of HBO series and while they're all exceptionally well made I never really related to the characters or plots of any of them. But GoT just keeps delivering. The uber assassin dude is ultra cool, one of the best characters in the series. Anyway the last episode was never going to rival the incredible epicness of episode 10, but I thought overall it was good. Maybe the whole quest into the wizards tower could have been a bit longer but meh, it's not really a big deal to me if they stick by conventions or not or whether everything is perfectly logically ordered. After all, Kaleesi is the dragon queen and has some super powers that the warlock dude wasn't expecting. Overall the last episode was as good as it could be compared to the penultimate episode, which was in overdrive, and it sets the scene well for season 3 which I can't wait for. GoT is a masterpiece so far.