Loving the under estimation of Ireland's chances

darkman2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18299052



Ah Gareth Crooks - 2 out of 3 teams can qualify from Group C.:cool: I really hope, I know, that this is the view of many outside Ireland and not just pundits - remember Bilic saying he feels sorry for Ireland? This must be music to the ears of Irish fans. I so hope the Irish management team actually plays some of this stuff to the players over there and uses it because there is alot of commentary out there. No better motivation for an Irish team.



As an Irish fan we know it's a really tough group for Ireland. We know we are unlikely to progress. But we also know we can progress. It is not impossible for us to get out of that group because we know what Ireland can do when they play well. And Ireland always raise their game at a tournament.

Thinking of the English in particular pissing on Ireland's chances - I was reading a column Alan Shearer wrote saying how good he thought it was that expectations were so low for England - then he goes on to say "with this attitude maybe we can win it":D


So let's keep this thread for those trolling Ireland's chances. There is stuff out there that if Ireland do well should be gold after the tournament:cool:

ArmaniJeanss

God no.
Pundits are perfectly entitled to predict who they think will qualify, and ipso facto to suggest that they don't think other teams will qualify.

Is it an Irish thing, I hate in the GAA when some gombeen is saying 'we showed up a few experts in the sunday papers out there today', 'everyone wrote us off' etc.

recylingbin

There's no underestimation.
We'll play three games and go home.

England are in an easy group, but will still probably not make the second round. That's the reality of how poor they are right now.

JPA

I wouldn't mind the likes of Del Bosque pitying us but Croatia are no great shakes.

EuropeanSon

Ireland are, realistically, the weakest team in the group, and light years behind Spain and Italy. If those two teams play reasonably well, we couldn't qualify on our best day. Realistically, we have to play as well as we possibly could, AND hope that either Spain or Italy are significantly below par, AND hope that Croatia don't play as well as they possibly could.

It's possible, obviously, but seems exceptionally unlikely, and I don't think it's unreasonable for them to dismiss Ireland's chances, in the same way we'd probably (don't want to speak for you, but I know I would anyway) dismiss Denmark's chances of getting out of group B.

homerjay2005

the italians are there to be beaten, no doubt about that. my fear is the croatia game, we need a result there, even a draw would be a good start and take it from there then so in essence our entire tournament hangs on that first game.

esentially we have the second most difficult group but we wont be any walkovers either.

monkey9

We'll lose to Croatia and Spain and draw with Italy!

homerjay2005

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Ireland are, realistically, the weakest team in the group, and light years behind Spain and Italy.

italy have beaten us once since 1990. since then, we have drawn with them 1-1 and 2-2 being the better side in both games and beating them 1-0 and 2-0. they beat us in a friendly 2-1 in 2005 in lansdowne.

id like to think we can beat them.

J. Marston

Italy haven't beaten us in something 5 games, is that right? And Croatia are nothing special, Spain will spank us. I'm expecting us to go home after the group stages but it's possible that we could squeak through with two good results against Italy and Croatia, we'd need other results to go in our favour though.

A_Sober_Paddy

I think we are the 4th best team in our group, but on our day we are hard to beat...

Our last games against
Croatia: we drew 0-0
Italy: we won 2-1
Spain: don't know,was it the 2002 world cup?

Spain, may just struggle against our parking the bus and trying to steal a goal...the swiss beat them 1-0 last world go doing just that...

Now do I expect us to get out of the group no, but do I think we can if we keep our discipline of course we have a chance of getting out of the group, we have a chance of taking points off anyone the way we play

Ireland 9/2 to qualify from group

darkman2

Croatia are beatable for Ireland - no question. But as you say they need to be below par and we need to be full strength. And we need to take our chances.


Spain were beaten by a Switzerland team in the last world cup playing the football Ireland are going to play i.e lump it as far away from our box as possible and hope to get on scraps. Like us they had an invisible midfield aswell but they managed to win by a goal.


Italy has made Ireland a bit of a bogey team in recent years. I don't think the Irish players will be in awe of Italy tbh. Best possibility for an Irish win in the group is against Italy IMHO.

I honestly think Ireland can get out of the group. The other teams are going to take points off each other aswell. It's a very interesting group. The important thing is all 3 opponents play open expansive football. We can't and that's our trump card really. Frustrate them and try nick a few goals in the group and we will qualify.

It just grates me because the interpretation is not only Ireland don't have a chance but also that we shouldn't really be there. Ireland went through alot of sweat and blood to get there. They are there on merit. It's made out like we are gatecrashing their party alot of the time.

I look forward to the so called upsets.:)

darkman2

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I think we are the 4th best team in our group, but on our day we are hard to beat...

Our last games against

Italy: we won 2-0

Fixed. And man for man we are the 4th best team in the group. I agree with that.

Zebra3

monkey9 wrote: »

We'll lose to Croatia and Spain and draw with Italy!

My expectation too.

I don't expect Ireland to get hammered in either of the first two games, but they'll lose them. I expect Italy to be out by the final game too and not really give a damn about it, whereas Ireland will be killing themselves to try and salvage something.

darkman2

I think we will beat Croatia and Italy. Lose to Spain. That's my honest expectation only on the way Ireland play. Ireland have plenty of attacking options and they defend exceptionally well (but not well enough for Spain IMO). No reason to suggest Ireland can't beat both Croatia and Italy. It will be tough. Might be a bit sneaky. But they can win those two games.


I don't get why so many seem so scared of Croatia and Italy. Spain I get. But Croatia and Italy are nothing special either like.

HazDanz

I don't think it's underestimation, we are estimated just right. The other three teams in our group are better sides than us. The Spanish and the Italians will be very very hard to beat. We might draw with the Italians but if they play their possesion game correctly they will more than likely beat us. The spainish, they'll pin us back with their high pressure.

It all hindges on the first game. We need to get something from that game to believe we can qualify and build momentum into the last two games. If we don't, can't see it happening.

darkman2

I agree we need something from the first game. The point in the OP I am trying to make is that when Bilic comes out and says he feels sorry for Ireland Irish fans should be loving that and thinking "I hope these guys go in to this game with that opinion of the Irish team".

homerjay2005

am i right in saying the last time we lost a competitive game outside of ireland was 5 years ago? trap seems to have a great system set up away from home and our football and performances are generally better away.

1-0 against Czech republic i think was our last competitive away defeat. this sort of momentum could be vital for us.

HazDanz

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree we need something from the first game. The point in the OP I am trying to make is that when Bilic comes out and says he feels sorry for Ireland Irish fans should be loving that and thinking "I hope these guys go in to this game with that opinion of the Irish team".

It can only add fuel to the fire Bilic saying sh*te about a rival team. Knowing Irish mentality we will take it on board as a motivater but that Irish squad shouldn't need too much push to know how important it is to put it to the Croats next Sunday.

Bilic reckons Norway are a good team to play before the irish game as we have similar styles so it'll be interesting to see how they do in the Friendly.

AgileMyth

Did Crooks say Gerrard is one of the top 5 midfielders in the world? What a clown.

Then he tips Croatia based solely on the three or four lads hes seen play in England..

kitakyushu

I don't see why it's considered underestimating us. We *are* the worst team in the group both in terms of manpower and statistically or any other yardstick you care to mention.

Even in Euro 88 when Ireland were likewise supposed to just be making up the numbers there was actual empirical evidence to suggest they could compete (eg winning a qual group ahead of three Mexico86 finalists). This time around we basically qualified thanks to the collapse of Slovakia and an easy draw in the play-offs.

Forget the cliches of being hard to beat and of the lads giving 100% etc. Just ask yourself what have we actually done in the 12 games so far that would suggest to you that we will get enough points to enter the QF's? Good luck finding an answer.

JPA

We got to the European championships for the first time in 24 years, and the second time in our history.
Its obviously very difficult to qualify for.

Trap can do whatever he wants.

darkman2

kitakyushu wrote: »

I don't see why it's considered underestimating us. We *are* the worst team in the group both in terms of manpower and statistically or any other yardstick you care to mention.

Really? We are unbeaten in 13 games. Best record in the group. We are also unbeaten away in 4 or 5 years. Again best record.;)

recylingbin

homerjay2005 wrote: »

italy have beaten us once since 1990. since then, we have drawn with them 1-1 and 2-2 being the better side in both games and beating them 1-0 and 2-0. they beat us in a friendly 2-1 in 2005 in lansdowne.

id like to think we can beat them.

True.
But compare the teams from then and now.

Professional Griefer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eParXVjkPI

Come on the boys!!

I fancy our chances of getting through, draw against Croatia, probably lose against Spain, but a another draw wouldn't be surprising, then beat Italy.

kitakyushu

darkman2 wrote: »

Really? We are unbeaten in 13 games. Best record in the group. We are also unbeaten away in 4 or 5 years. Again best record.;)

Key there (and seems to be an obsession with Irish fans) is 'unbeaten'. Tell me how many actual competitive wins of note are included in those two statistics, because it's almost certain we're going to have to beat someone in this group to progress.

HazDanz

kitakyushu wrote: »

Key there (and seems to be an obsession with Irish fans) is 'unbeaten'. Tell me how many actual competitive wins of note are included in those two statistics, because it's almost certain we're going to have to beat someone in this group to progress.

That's the problem. We can nullify teams but can Trappatoni change it up if it goes down to the last twenty minutes of a game and we need to turn a draw into a win?

darkman2

kitakyushu wrote: »

Key there (and seems to be an obsession with Irish fans) is 'unbeaten'. Tell me how many actual competitive wins of note are included in those two statistics, because it's almost certain we're going to have to beat someone in this group to progress.

Armenia away and France away (1 - 0 90 mins) come to mind. Armenia was actually a fine win in a hostile environment given what they later did in our group. Macedonia too were no walk overs either. Beat them 2 - 0 in a relatively good display. But we got a number of decent away draws aswell. I am simply pointing out Ireland are unbeaten in 13 and that can't be a fluke. Ireland also thumped Estonia away - other stronger teams barely beat them there like Italy and Serbia. That suggests we have a fine defence. The question is in a tournament environment when it's on the line can Ireland turn it on like they did against France? If they do and they have that attitude they have a good chance. Is there any reason to suggest they can't do that again when the stakes are that high? I don't think so. Unless they have a very bad off tournament.

Augmerson

darkman2 wrote: »

Really? We are unbeaten in 13 games. Best record in the group. We are also unbeaten away in 4 or 5 years. Again best record.;)

Hate to be a Buzz Killington man but we haven't played WC or EC football in quite a while. Spain and Italy have, Croatia too. We probably only have such a good record because we haven't taken part in tournaments.

applehunter

No underestimating.

We are the worst side in the group.

Can't underestimate us.

darkman2

applehunter wrote: »

No underestimating.

We are the worst side in the group.

Can't underestimate us.

So you won't be watching Ireland's games then? No point is there if your so sure we will be the losers of the group?

Jimmy Iovine

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ireland 9/2 to qualify from group

Michael Owen's been talking up that bet (@4/1) for the last few days. He seems more confident after the Italy result the other night. Hopefully he's right.

HazDanz

darkman2 wrote: »

So you won't be watching Ireland's games then? No point is there if your so sure we will be the losers of the group?

We might not be the best team in the group but thats the great thing about football, upsets happen and nothing is set in stone. Championships do weird things to teams wheter making some excel or others diminish so hopefully we will be on the upside for these finals and can pull off something pretty special.

Pro. F

darkman2 wrote: »

Ireland also thumped Estonia away - other stronger teams barely beat them there like Italy and Serbia.

I think that rather proves how poor Italy and Serbia were rather than how good Ireland were. Estonia were a truly awful team to finish second in a group.

I do agree that casting Ireland as completely out of their depth in this group is wrong though. Italy don't look in good shape at all and Croatia aren't that special.

briany

kitakyushu wrote: »

I don't see why it's considered underestimating us. We *are* the worst team in the group both in terms of manpower and statistically or any other yardstick you care to mention.

Even in Euro 88 when Ireland were likewise supposed to just be making up the numbers there was actual empirical evidence to suggest they could compete (eg winning a qual group ahead of three Mexico86 finalists). This time around we basically qualified thanks to the collapse of Slovakia and an easy draw in the play-offs.

Forget the cliches of being hard to beat and of the lads giving 100% etc. Just ask yourself what have we actually done in the 12 games so far that would suggest to you that we will get enough points to enter the QF's? Good luck finding an answer.

Ireland were pretty lucky to qualify for Euro '88 as well as WC '94. It's not the first time Ireland has relied on a collapse of another team in the group to get them through but we're not going to let it put a damper on things. Even in qualifying for 2002 Ireland were 3rd seeds which meant that they'd have to rely on the Dutch under performing. Ireland had that handy intercontinental playoff versus Iran which, in terms of quality of players on the pitch, you would take over some of the European opposition they could have faced. Of course they got to that playoff by being the top runner up which was a great achievement in itself.

Irishvillian

Augmerson wrote: »

Hate to be a Buzz Killington man but we haven't played WC or EC football in quite a while. Spain and Italy have, Croatia too. We probably only have such a good record because we haven't taken part in tournaments.

We haven't played any EC football well how the hell did we qualify then.

Zebra3

darkman2 wrote: »

Armenia was actually a fine win in a hostile environment

:D:D

darkman2 wrote: »

So you won't be watching Ireland's games then? No point is there if your so sure we will be the losers of the group?

Why make something up that another poster never said?

Kidchameleon

I tell you one thing. The lads will have no fear of anyone, they will give it their all. You think Spain want to be going up against Richard Dunne? You think Croatia will have a hard time trying to get one past Shay Given? I kid you not, the other teams in our group will be watching their backs. There are plenty of other teams they would rather play than us. We may be the most unfancied team in the tournament, but we wont be the worst. We have every chance of getting out of that group.

SirDelboy18

On the quality of personnel and their performances this season, Ireland should finish last. I don't think that can be disputed.

However, there are various mitigating factors to be considered.

1. We have a tremendous resolve and especially under Trap, we produce against the big teams when it counts.

2. Italy are in the midst of a great scandal and their squad has low confidence, typified by the 3-0 loss to Serbia which was full of catastrophic defensive errors. Despite this, in 2006 there was a similar scandal and we know what happened there.

3. Spain are presumably the most fatigued nation in the competition. They also have history going against them, are missing two key players, lack a physical presence at the back.

4. Croatia have been very poor for the past while, with the exception of the play off matches.

So, in summary, while me may have the squad with the lowest ability, we are capable of sneaking out of the group. I don't think people should be laughed at for "underestimating" us as on ability we are the worst in the group. However we do possess the ability to cause a shock and I obviously hope we do

IvySlayer

I really, really hate Garth Crooks. Dismissing Shevchenkos opinions cos he's white..

applehunter

darkman2 wrote: »

So you won't be watching Ireland's games then?

I will be watching the games, please God.

darkman2 wrote: »

No point is there if your so sure we will be the losers of the group?

That's not how it works. The fact that we have so much stacked against us makes it even more compelling.

Reality is that we are the total outsiders in a very tough competition.

Cardinal Richelieu

darkman2 wrote: »

So you won't be watching Ireland's games then? No point is there if your so sure we will be the losers of the group?

How many of the Irish squad play for the top 10 Premiership Teams?

bucketybuck

darkman2 wrote: »

Armenia away and France away (1 - 0 90 mins) come to mind. Armenia was actually a fine win in a hostile environment given what they later did in our group. Macedonia too were no walk overs either. Beat them 2 - 0 in a relatively good display. But we got a number of decent away draws aswell. I am simply pointing out Ireland are unbeaten in 13 and that can't be a fluke. Ireland also thumped Estonia away - other stronger teams barely beat them there like Italy and Serbia. That suggests we have a fine defence. The question is in a tournament environment when it's on the line can Ireland turn it on like they did against France? If they do and they have that attitude they have a good chance. Is there any reason to suggest they can't do that again when the stakes are that high? I don't think so. Unless they have a very bad off tournament.

So your evidence that Ireland have triumphed in some big games is to trumpet the fact that we beat Armenia, Macedonia and Estonia?

Tell me, was it hard to type all that wearing those rose tinted glasses?

kitakyushu

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

How many of the Irish squad play for the top 10 Premiership Teams?

6.
Darron Gibson
Damien Duff
Stephen Kelly
Keith Andrews
Shane Long
Simon Cox

Aren't we great!

darkman2

bucketybuck wrote: »

So your evidence that Ireland have triumphed in some big games is to trumpet the fact that we beat Armenia, Macedonia and Estonia?

Tell me, was it hard to type all that wearing those rose tinted glasses?

It's simply a fact. And we beat France. I think Ireland will do well in this tournament. If people are so downbeat and dismissive of the team then don't watch the Ireland games. And don't jump on the bandwagon either if they do do well. Don't be a hipocrite. Stick to your belief they are too ****e to be there.

darkman2

kitakyushu wrote: »

6.
Darron Gibson
Damien Duff
Stephen Kelly
Keith Andrews
Shane Long
Simon Cox

Aren't we great!

James McClean
John O'Shea
Aiden McGeady is a top 10 PL quality player and will be after the tournament - no doubt.


How many of the Croatian team play in top 10 premier league teams? We should be bricking ourselves about them according to alot of posters here. All they can point point to is Modric and potentially Jelevic as their truely class players. They are not exactly light years ahead of us are they? They play a technical game and are a technical team but i'm just not as frightened as some on here.

nkay1985

Saying that we have no chance of making it out of the group is completely underestimating us. With the way we play, we could get something out of every game. It's unlikely but not impossible. We have a style of play that might not be the nicest to look at but it's effective. We don't concede many.

If we were to play each of these teams three times, we'd probably end up at the bottom of that pile, but with one-off 90-minute matches, we can get through.

kitakyushu

darkman2 wrote: »

James McClean
John O'Shea

Is your top 10 prem teams based on things like facts or just on how you perceive reality?

bucketybuck

darkman2 wrote: »

It's simply a fact. And we beat France. I think Ireland will do well in this tournament. If people are so downbeat and dismissive of the team then don't watch the Ireland games. And don't jump on the bandwagon either if they do do well. Don't be a hipocrite. Stick to your belief they are too ****e to be there.

As you get older you will find a certain measure of realism creeps into your expectations. Children are allowed the enthusiasm of optimism, us adults are more tempered in our objectivity.

You may lay awake at night giggling in excitement about Irelands chances if you wish, but for myself I will be offering my support to Ireland unburdened by the delusion that they are anything but a limited team with the odds stacked against them.

And frankly, before you once again repeat your non-sequitur regarding us not watching if we think Ireland cannot win, consider this. You think its not worth bothering to watch if you don't think they will win. We are still going to support Ireland even though we don't think they will win. Perhaps it is your own support you should be questioning.

darkman2

kitakyushu wrote: »

Is your top 10 based on things like facts or just how you feel today?

They were top 10 most of the season though. They had a poor end. 13th, 1 point behind a top 10 finish is good for Sunderland.

LuckyLloyd

Who gives a **** what anyone thinks? If the lads play for each other magic could happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woNTdjxPNTQ