Loving the under estimation of Ireland's chances

BorneTobyWilde

I just hope we get the ball get on with the play and put them under pressure

bucketybuck

nkay1985 wrote: »

Saying that we have no chance of making it out of the group is completely underestimating us. With the way we play, we could get something out of every game.

The problem is three 0-0 draws will not be enough. To progress Ireland will actually need to beat one of other teams, and while Trapps backs to wall defensiveness may pick up qualifying points over a dozen games, over three it won't be enough.

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

How many of the Croatian team play in top 10 premier league teams?

I have given my thoughts on this earlier, but the players of the Croatian national team are dispersed across many nations in very competitive leagues so this counter argument is a bit silly. Bar Keane who plays in a very poor league, and McGeady, who plays in a good competitive one, our team is based in England.

Re-iterating, we are the worst team in the group quality wise, have the potential to cause a shock, and I hope we do as best as we can.

darkman2

bucketybuck wrote: »

As you get older you will find a certain measure of realism creeps into your expectations. Children are allowed the enthusiasm of optimism, us adults are more tempered in our objectivity.


You may lay awake at night giggling in excitement about Irelands chances if you wish, but for myself I will be offering my support to Ireland unburdened by the delusion that they are anything but a limited team with the odds stacked against them.

And frankly, before you once again repeat your non-sequitur regarding us not watching if we think Ireland cannot win, consider this. You think its not worth bothering to watch if you don't think they will win. We are still going to support Ireland even though we don't think they will win. Perhaps it is your own support you should be questioning.

So i'm a child because I think the team will do well? I have supported Ireland all my life. I have ALWAYS been realistic about Ireland's chances. I am realistic about their chances now. It is YOU that is unfairly knocking them not me. Do you really believe they are as bad a team as you are making them out or are you just trying to troll a little? Blatantly they are not that bad a team are they?

And I stick by what I say. You clearly don't believe they are good enough to be there. Stick by that and don't jump on the bandwagon.

Also don't insult posters either or be a little keyboard warrior. There are plenty of other forums at that level i'm sure.

Augmerson

Irishvillian wrote: »

We haven't played any EC football well how the hell did we qualify then.

There is qualification and there are tournaments. You play in qualifiers and then hopefully top your group and get into the tournament proper. Ireland hasn't been at any tournaments for awhile now.

The_Kew_Tour

First game is huge. I cannot stress how important the first game is.

Get a result even a point in the game would set us up with a chance to get out of the group. 4 points may well be enough.

I do think though that we will need to win at least 1 game. Dont think 3 draws like some have mentioned on other sites will be any good.

On paper we are weakest team in group without question, but paper does not win you games.

Michael Cox (founder of zonalmarking.net) had great column on RP paper the other day suggesting why he thinks Ireland should be respected.

Like I say win first game or even a point from Croatia game and lets see where it takes it from there.

ColeTrain

darkman2 wrote: »

bucketybuck wrote: »

So your evidence that Ireland have triumphed in some big games is to trumpet the fact that we beat Armenia, Macedonia and Estonia?

Tell me, was it hard to type all that wearing those rose tinted glasses?

It's simply a fact. And we beat France. I think Ireland will do well in this tournament. If people are so downbeat and dismissive of the team then don't watch the Ireland games. And don't jump on the bandwagon either if they do do well. Don't be a hipocrite. Stick to your belief they are too ****e to be there.

There's a big difference between being dismisive and realistic.

Anyone that has any interest in the game knows we are up against it big time and the odds are we won't get through but that's not to say everyone won't be behind the team.

When Ireland play there's always hope. Whatever happens I have no doubt that the team will give it their all.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

darkman2 wrote: »

So i'm a child because I think the team will do well? I have supported Ireland all my life. I have ALWAYS been realistic about Ireland's chances. I am realistic about their chances now. It is YOU that is unfairly knocking them not me. Do you really believe they are as bad a team as you are making them out or are you just trying to troll a little? Blatantly they are not that bad a team are they?

How is he 'trying to troll'? He's given his opinion, backed it up and argued it very well.

darkman2 wrote: »

And I stick by what I say. You clearly don't believe they are good enough to be there. Stick by that and don't jump on the bandwagon.

Also don't insult posters either or be a little keyboard warrior. There are plenty of other forums at that level i'm sure.

Ironic that last bit, especially when you read the rest of your post.


I agree with Kitakyushu, he never said we're not good enough to be there, he was saying we shouldn't be good enough to qualify, which by all logical and rational thinking is perfectly correct imo. We've got the last 2 winners of the World Cup, both footballing strongholds, and Croatia, who are better in every department except perhaps in defence. Of course that doesn't mean we won't qualify, but it certainly suggests that if we are to we will be relying on the other teams in the group more than ourselves. If we do qualify, well then, that'll make it all the more enjoyable, but I'll be watching these games more in hope than expectation.

xtal191

We'll get through the group on 2 points, draw with Italy and Croatia.

darkman2

ColeTrain wrote: »

There's a big difference between being dismisive and realistic.

Anyone that has any interest in the game knows we are up against it big time

That's what I said in the OP which that poster clearly didn't read though.

darkman2

THFC wrote: »

Ironic that last bit, especially when you read the rest of your post.

I don't think it is. He insulted me. I did not insult him. Funny thing is when Ireland do well these guys will be on the bandwagon. The olé olérs brigade.

titan18

People really shouldn't consider the betting scandal in Italy to have a bad effect on that team. Look at 82 and 2006 for what might happen

SirDelboy18

sugarman wrote: »

fuck the haters, we're gonna qualify out of the group.

Croatia, no world beaters, a team in the decline the few years. I dont rate them at all. Our first game, we need a result to get going.

Predicition: Either a 1-0 win or 1-1 draw I predict. Certainly not a loss.

Spain. Clearly world class. But Spain are beatable, they'll keep posession for the full 90mins, prob a ridiculous amout, 70/80%. But we can frustrait them and their style with our rigid defensive system. Basically 10men in the box, keep posestion, and hoof hoof hoof. A la Russia in Moscow. Spain cant deal with this, look at their friendly against England for example. They also generally dont score many goals in finals, look at the world cup. A lot of 1-0. So we have to keep them out and take our chances from set pieces and corners, along with hoofs. But most importantly, shut them out.

Predicition: Can go anyway. But i'll say a dull 1-1 draw with all the posession going to Spain. Or Spain to win 1-0. Dont fancy our chances to take them, but you never know, could get a lucky 1-0.

Italy:. Another team on the decline. You just have to look at their qualify and recent results to conclude they're no big force. And atm, with the betting allegations they're not exactly doing themselves any favors. They fell apart to Russia 3-0 last night with what looked like their probable Euro starting lineup, or close to it. Serious defensive cockups.

Prediciton: An Irish win. 1-0 or 2-1.

So a progression to the next round with either 5 or 6 points taking 2nd spot to Spain in 1st.

No offense here, but these predictions are quite bad (being polite).

A lot of holes, but among the most glaring is the assertion that Spain don't score at tournaments when they were top scorers at the last Euros. Giving that a run for it's money is your over-reliance on friendlies as evidence - Which are completely meaningless.

darkman2

titan18 wrote: »

People really shouldn't consider the betting scandal in Italy to have a bad effect on that team. Look at 82 and 2006 for what might happen

Beaten 3 - 0 by Russia handily enough it has to be said though. Not even a crap team like Ireland lost 3 - 0 to Russia but then again we shouldn't even be there.

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

Beaten 3 - 0 by Russia handily enough it has to be said though. Not even a crap team like Ireland lost 3 - 0 to Russia but then again we shouldn't even be there.

A friendly. They are meaningless. Backing up your argument with the results of friendlies is rather damning.

Germany lost to Switzerland. Holland lost to Bulgaria. France almost lost to Iceland.

Who cares? We know these teams will be there or thereabouts and the result of one friendly doesn't change anything.

titan18

darkman2 wrote: »

Beaten 3 - 0 by Russia handily enough it has to be said though. Not even a crap team like Ireland lost 3 - 0 to Russia but then again we shouldn't even be there.

Friendlies mean nothing tbh

Aidric

Ah the chip on the shoulder thread. Surprised it took this long tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

One thing has changed that not many have mentioned.

Under Trap our friendly performances have been poor, but in competitive games we have been far better and results show that.

Under Kerr ans Stan we had some notable wins over Denmark, Portugal and Croatia, but meant nothing in end.

nkay1985

bucketybuck wrote: »

The problem is three 0-0 draws will not be enough. To progress Ireland will actually need to beat one of other teams, and while Trapps backs to wall defensiveness may pick up qualifying points over a dozen games, over three it won't be enough.

Yeah but sneaking one goal in one of those matches would be enough, see what I mean? I don't care if it goes in off Richard Dunne's arse of power! It's not an out if this world possibility that we'll score while holding the other team goalless. One win and a draw and we'd probably go through.

bwatson

Croatia are being under estimated too though in my opinion. They have a lot more recent tournament experience than Ireland, a lot of technical ability and some real quality up front. It really won't be "no great shakes" or a game Ireland should "at least draw" imo.

Predictions are predictions. Often they are wrong. They mean nothing though and those that make them are using guesswork. I know debate back and forth before and after the match is what football is all about but when all is said and done, we will find out in the 90 minutes of football on the pitch alone.

SirDelboy18

nkay1985 wrote: »

Yeah but sneaking one goal in one of those matches would be enough, see what I mean? I don't care if it goes in off Richard Dunne's arse of power! It's not an out if this world possibility that we'll score while holding the other team goalless. One win and a draw and we'd probably go through.

This thread is fairly pointless. We have clarified that we are the worst team in the group but could cause a shock and it wouldn't be the most shocking turnover of all time if we qualified.

We all hope that we qualify but if every team plays to their ability then we shouldn't, but that mightn't happen and we could sneak out.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

darkman2 wrote: »

I don't think it is. He insulted me. I did not insult him. Funny thing is when Ireland do well these guys will be on the bandwagon. The olé olérs brigade.

Thats very mature of you, really making your point here.

darkman2

I know.

kitakyushu

darkman2 wrote: »

Funny thing is when Ireland do well these guys will be on the bandwagon. The olé olérs brigade.

How's that wrong tho? I want Ireland to win all 6 games. Doesn't mean I'm going to sit here convincing myself of how it might happen when I've seen nothing thusfar to suggest it will.

Pro. F

Darkman2, your fervour is annoying. Just because some people don't agree with your assessment of Ireland's chances in the group does not mean that they think Ireland don't deserve to be there. Nor does it mean that they shouldn't support Ireland or celebrate any results that come along. Thinking that Ireland aren't that good, but supporting them and celebrating results doesn't make somebody a bandwagon hopper. Since you are going to be contributing to a lot of the Euro threads is there any chance you could stop posting like such propaganda-spewing, thought-policing ass?

Pro. F

sugarman wrote: »

They were top scorers because the reached the final and won!! So they were obviously in it longer than anyone else to achieve top scorer.

Lets have a look at WC 2010 anyway.

Spain in the groups. They lost 1-0 to the Swiss in their opening game, they won 2-0 against the mighty Honduras (ranked around 60th in Fifa rankings) and 2-1 Chile.

Then all the way to the final, they won 1-0 against Portugal, Paraguay, Germnay and AET to Holland in the final.

When you look at it like that and consider how many games their star players have played over the last few years, it really wouldn't be a huge surprise if they struggled a bit this tournament.

SirDelboy18

sugarman wrote: »

We'll see;)



They were top scorers because the reached the final and won!! So they were obviously in it longer than anyone else to achieve top scorer.

They were top scorers in the group stage too in the last Euros.

bucketybuck

darkman2 wrote: »

Not even a crap team like Ireland lost 3 - 0 to Russia but then again we shouldn't even be there.

darkman2 wrote: »

I know.

That awkward moment when a poster is upset at being compared to a child, and so starts to sulk.

Sergio

I have no interest in getting into a big arguement with other fans here about irelands chances in the euros next week.I would be the first to admit i had rants about how poor ireland have played at certain times during this qualification campaign and the last one since trappatoni took the reigns.
After reading some of the negativity from certain folk here i am disgusted by some of the comments to be honest. I agree 100% with people that on paper we are no world beaters and that the other 3 teams in our group have better players.
What we do have that the other countries dont have is a very passionate nation of supporters of the Irish team which is going back decades.We have a great track record in the few tournaments that we have managed to qualify for and have always played better against the so called better teams.
Ive been supporting the Irish international football team since the 1990 worldcup and i remember my dad picking me up from school to go watch the matches in the pub.I remember vividly the buzz in the pubs and around the country then even though i was only 11 yrs old.I have been going to matches since the early 90s in lansdowne road right up to the present day.
Sorry for the long post lads and for rambling on but to sum up i think it goes with the territory of being an Ireland football supporter that we will always experience extreme high and lows (think of how low we felt in paris a few years ago against the buzz we got when we beat holland in lansdowne road to qualify for the 2002 worldcup).
The buzz is building in every city,town,pub etc etc etc at the moment and i just wish people would stop being so negative and just get behind the team even if its just for the next few weeks.We can all go back to criticizing trap and his negative management style in september when the worldcup 2014 qualifying campaign starts again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePNST9aczFI&feature=related

SirDelboy18

Sergio wrote: »

I have no interest in getting into a big arguement with other fans here about irelands chances in the euros next week.I would be the first to admit i had rants about how poor ireland have played at certain times during this qualification campaign and the last one since trappatoni took the reigns.
After reading some of the negativity from certain folk here i am disgusted by some of the comments to be honest. I agree 100% with people that on paper we are no world beaters and that the other 3 teams in our group have better players.
What we do have that the other countries dont have is a very passionate nation of supporters of the Irish team which is going back decades.We have a great track record in the few tournaments that we have managed to qualify for and have always played better against the so called better teams.
Ive been supporting the Irish international football team since the 1990 worldcup and i remember my dad picking me up from school to go watch the matches in the pub.I remember vividly the buzz in the pubs and around the country then even though i was only 11 yrs old.I have been going to matches since the early 90s in lansdowne road right up to the present day.
Sorry for the long post lads and for rambling on but to sum up i think it goes with the territory of being an Ireland football supporter that we will always experience extreme high and lows (think of how low we felt in paris a few years ago against the buzz we got when we beat holland in lansdowne road to qualify for the 2002 worldcup).
The buzz is building in every city,town,pub etc etc etc at the moment and i just wish people would stop being so negative and just get behind the team even if its just for the next few weeks.We can all go back to criticizing trap and his negative management style in september when the worldcup 2014 qualifying campaign starts again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePNST9aczFI&feature=related

This is a bit much in fairness.. people are entitled to be realistic about our chances, but everybody obviously hopes we do as well as we can.

darkman2

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

This is a bit much in fairness.. people are entitled to be realistic about our chances, but everybody obviously hopes we do as well as we can.

Sorry but when has anyone been unrealistic about our chances? No one. But some are being overly negative for no other reason then to stir things. Then they throw the baby out of the pram when it's suggested they should stick to their guns and not support the team they have so little time for. I'm telling yeh the very people doing down the team unfairly are the very ones who will be first on the bandwagon if Ireland do well. That is a reasonable observation.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

When you look at it like that and consider how many games their star players have played over the last few years, it really wouldn't be a huge surprise if they struggled a bit this tournament.

I would be hugely shocked if Spain were to win this tournament, purely because of the law of averages. Very few people stay at the top forever, and even fewer teams. At the top level hunger is a huge driving force, and once that hunger diminishes then teams fall short. Spain have won it all, and though they would never admit it their hunger could not be as it was.

Which is a real shame, as I got Spain in the work sweepstake.

Sergio

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

This is a bit much in fairness.. people are entitled to be realistic about our chances, but everybody obviously hopes we do as well as we can.

Ive no problem with people being realistic but its the way that some people make comments like "Its simple really we play 3 games and go home" that turns my stomach.That the type of attitude we dont need from people

applehunter

darkman2 wrote: »

So let's keep this thread for those trolling Ireland's chances. There is stuff out there that if Ireland do well should be gold after the tournament:cool:

You invited people to troll.

Are you any relation to Alan Hunter by any chance.

You seem to be self-appointing yourself as some sort of guardian angel for the team.

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

Sorry but when has anyone been unrealistic about our chances? No one. But some are being overly negative for no other reason then to stir things. Then they throw the baby out of the pram when it's suggested they should stick to their guns and not support the team they have so little time for. I'm telling yeh the very people doing down the team unfairly are the very ones who will be first on the bandwagon if Ireland do well. That is a reasonable observation.

I don't even know where to start with this. Who is trying to stir anything? People have better things to do with their time then try to get a rise out of you.

Just because people think the team will do badly doesn't mean that they shouldn't support the team. That is complete nonsense. Please grow up.

You don't have claim on supporting our country. Nor does anyone else.

Sergio

darkman2 wrote: »

Sorry but when has anyone been unrealistic about our chances? No one. But some are being overly negative for no other reason then to stir things. Then they throw the baby out of the pram when it's suggested they should stick to their guns and not support the team they have so little time for. I'm telling yeh the very people doing down the team unfairly are the very ones who will be first on the bandwagon if Ireland do well. That is a reasonable observation.

couldnt agree more darkman!

darkman2

applehunter wrote: »

You invited people to troll.

Are you any relation to Alan Hunter by any chance.

You seem to be self-appointing yourself as some sort of guardian angel for the team.

How does confronting the doomsayers equate with being some sort of guardian angel? Did you read the OP? What did I say about Ireland's chances?

Also pundits and the likes not posters who want to troll. Interesting that some boards trolls took up the misinterpreted invitation none the less.

grohlisagod

I think Ireland will finish on either 2 or 4 points. It all rests on the opening games though. Lose that and we're out.

Pro. F

darkman2 wrote: »

Sorry but when has anyone been unrealistic about our chances? No one. But some are being overly negative for no other reason then to stir things. Then they throw the baby out of the pram when it's suggested they should stick to their guns and not support the team they have so little time for. I'm telling yeh the very people doing down the team unfairly are the very ones who will be first on the bandwagon if Ireland do well. That is a reasonable observation.

You are a scarily paranoid person.

darkman2

Not as paranoid as bucketybuck.

Pro. F

darkman2 wrote: »

Not as paranoid as bucketybuck.

Hmm yes very mature.

What did he say that showed paranoia btw?

mewso

Darkman from what I can see you're not really "Loving the under estimation of Ireland's chances". Don't worry my cheerleader's outfit and blinkers are in the post.

Zebra3

darkman2 wrote: »

Beaten 3 - 0 by Russia handily enough it has to be said though. Not even a crap team like Ireland lost 3 - 0 to Russia but then again we shouldn't even be there.

Came close enough though!!! :D:D

A-Trak

I know on paper and looking at our current set up vs the opposition in group we're highly unlikely to even get win never mind qualify.

But with the tidal wave of negativity in this country, most of it justified, corrupt governments, huge recession, broken banks etc being shouted at us every day......

For just one week, I'm going to hope against hope, ignore the stats, pundits and neigh Sayers.
Right now every time I drive by a car with those tri-colours clipped to them, every time I hear rocky road to Poland, every time I think about 7.45 next Sunday I get butterflies and think maybe, just maybe....

Will I be disappointed if we crash out? Of course, but I'm going to enjoy feeling positive this week.

And if we go home after 3 games I still have international football to watch nearly every day for the month

darkman2

mewso wrote: »

Don't worry my cheerleader's outfit and blinkers are in the post.

Firstly did you READ my posts?


And if you did what makes you think I have blinkers on wrt Ireland's chances? I have been realistic. I think Ireland can beat Croatia and Italy. In the OP I made clear how difficulty it will be.

darkman2

Pro. F wrote: »

Hmm yes very mature.

What did he say that showed paranoia btw?

That anyone who remotely believes Ireland has a chance of getting out of the group is not a true Ireland fan and is a "child". Very mature that, eh? I am a very proud Ireland supporter. I go to most of the games. I support the team. Who is he to say I am not an Ireland supporter? He comes across as an olé olér - a bandwagoner - "Ireland are ****e", "be realistic" etc......fine. He should stick to that conviction. Instead he comes across as "I think little of them now" but when they do well.....

I always thought Ireland would get out of the qualifying group btw. If i'd said that post the first match away to Armenia i'd have gotten the same attitude from the usual suspects.

bucketybuck

darkman2 wrote: »

That anyone who remotely believes Ireland has a chance of getting out of the group is not a true Ireland fan and is a "child". Very mature that, eh? I am a very proud Ireland supporter. I go to most of the games. I support the team. Who is he to say I am not an Ireland supporter? He comes across as an olé olér - a bandwagoner - "Ireland are ****e", "be realistic" etc......fine. He should stick to that conviction. Instead he comes across as "I think little of them now" but when they do well.....

Let me just steal one of your lines here...

darkman2 wrote: »

Firstly did you READ my posts?

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

That anyone who remotely believes Ireland has a chance of getting out of the group is not a true Ireland fan and is a "child". Very mature that, eh? I am a very proud Ireland supporter. I go to most of the games. I support the team. Who is he to say I am not an Ireland supporter? He comes across as an olé olér - a bandwagoner - "Ireland are ****e", "be realistic" etc......fine. He should stick to that conviction. Instead he comes across as "I think little of them now" but when they do well.....

Troll-1000 activate. Mission 1 - Completely misquote and wrongly paraphrase a well written post.

darkman2

bucketybuck wrote: »

Let me just steal one of your lines here...

Well neither he nor you read the OP did you?

Don't deal with your hypocrisy though whatever you do. Just come up with those one liner diversions.

darkman2

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Troll-1000 activate. Mission 1 - Completely misquote and wrongly paraphrase a well written post.

I have neither paraphrased anything incorrectly nor misquoted anything either. Next!