Loving the under estimation of Ireland's chances

SirDelboy18

double GG wrote: »

Why is he there?

There are one or two questionable inclusions, but the sentiment remains that there are a vast majority better. Plus many more are left out.

That being said he does sometimes produce miracles at international level.

Sanity_Saviour

Oranage2 wrote: »

lose lose lose in that order.

i can just imagine the Greek/Ukrainian/Belgium darkman saying the same thing about their nation on their boards.ie equivalent. truth is theres nothing special about Ireland and unlike previous Irish teams 8 of our 11 starters are pure muck, 3 of them not even currently playing for a football team.

Oranage2 wrote: »

how exactly is it the hardest

by the way im not anti Irish im even going to Poland for a game, all im saying is that this Irish side is not very good and that we don't have a chance of gettin out of the group never mind winning it. hopefully prove wrong.

weldoninhio wrote: »

I don't get the blinkeredness, ireland are a well below average team that got extremely lucky away to Russia and extremely lucky in getting the worst team in the playoffs. I think we will be lucky to score a goal in the group stages, never mind getting a win. I'll probably watch the games because we are playing 3 decent teams, but I'll watch them knowing we won't win any of them. I'll be more interested in Germany's progress than Ireland's.

There are some truly awful Ireland supporters.

joshrogan

I predict Italy to fall apart this tournament a la France 2010. So it's between us and Croatia for 2nd place IMO!

The_Kew_Tour

Surprised how many are writing off Italy.

klose

Atleast we've a better chance of getting through then Denmark

On paper we are fairly croaked but that's the beauty of football, weve all seen countless upsets and all depends on the day. Wc 2002 only 2 teams scored against Germany, Brazil and.......us! Ok not an upset but goes to show we can score.
I for one will watch every game and shout till I'm horse believing we can get a result in each. I'd hate to watch a game with the mentality of were gonna lose, whatever about it being 'realistic'.

101001

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Surprised how many are writing off Italy.

Yeah... its true. As weird as it sounds Im more inclined to write off Spain. I wouldve loved to play them in their first game. Spanish footballers have had an incredibly long and hard 4 years, if not more. They really are due to break

Remember France in 2002 (its a different situation but, again, I wouldnt be surprised)

Fr Tod Umptious

Aidric wrote: »

Ah the chip on the shoulder thread. Surprised it took this long tbh.

Yes, some neutral gives an opinion based on his knowledge of the teams in the group, and Paddy is all upset about it, and asks why he is not taking into account the intangiables, like the pride, the support, the playing better as underdog etc.

Barlett

I tell you wot....I WOULD LOVE IT, ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT if we got through the group stage. But seriously nothing to fear from Croatia or Italy, definitely capable of results against them. Croatia were beaten by Greece and Georgia in qualifying...we've never won two games at a football tournament...that would be amazing.

At the same time I don't see the problem in English pundits writing Ireland off...it's their opinion...look at the slaughtering the English team receive off Dunphy and Giles. Anyway no matter how we perform...if your an Irish football supporter and you can't get excited about us performing in our first tournament in 10 years...it's pretty sad.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

For the record I think we have a small, yet realistic chance of qualifying. However, imo, we must beat the Croats in the first game, any other result and we're out. I can't see us not getting beat by a few against Spain. I keep thinking of Chelsea -v- Barca match, and think of the players Chelsea have compared to us, and then think that Barca still scored 2 while Chelsea rode their luck. That game is a write off for me. As for the Italy match, it depends on what Italy show up, if it's the Italy of the qualifiers then they should win, however if they are playing the way they played in South Africa then they're there for the taking.
If I was a betting man however, I'd have money on us finishing last, obviously I really hope I'm wrong.

G.K.

Why are you all so confident of beating Italy?

Because of the past record or something else?

double GG

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

There are one or two questionable inclusions, but the sentiment remains that there are a vast majority better. Plus many more are left out.

That being said he does sometimes produce miracles at international level.

Yes they may be much better footballers, but I for one wouldn't swap Dunne for Pique or Agger or any of the players named by Xavi. The others may be able to pass better, may have better technique among other things , but this Irish team needs bravery, determination and tenacity. Dunne possesses all these traits and much more. I'm sure there are quite a few who would agree with me.


He may not be the best in the world but he fits our team better than any other centre half. He's the best centre half that we could ask for.

HazDanz

G.K. wrote: »

Why are you all so confident of beating Italy?

Because of the past record or something else?

I don't understand it either. If that Italian team gets gelled together by their last game in the group they will be very hard to stop. They are strong in every position and can interchanging things in both defense and attack easily, a lot of options. Spain would have a tough time getting points against them if they play to potential.

A good few Juve players in that squad as well who know how not to lose a game. Best defense in the qualifiers, even in a weak group it is still impressive.

cgpg5

double GG wrote: »

Yes they may be much better footballers, but I for one wouldn't swap Dunne for Pique or Agger or any of the players named by Xavi. The others may be able to pass better, may have better technique among other things , but this Irish team needs bravery, determination and tenacity. Dunne possesses all these traits and much more. I'm sure there are quite a few who would agree with me.


He may not be the best in the world but he fits our team better than any other centre half. He's the best centre half that we could ask for.

This sums it up perfectly tbh. He's the one man we can't lose and I wouldn't swap him for anyone

cgpg5

G.K. wrote: »

Why are you all so confident of beating Italy?

Because of the past record or something else?

Well in my eyes they are the team we have the best chance of beating. They really seem to be at 6's and 7's at the moment (granted they were similar (off the pitch) in 2006- but in my view they'd a much superior side back then). The Trap factor may play a role too. In my view we really have to look at the Italians as a team we can beat. The record is a factor too perhaps but looking back to 2010 qualifiers we played well against them at home and conceded late on to prevent us from winning. I still can't get over how we left it behind us in Rome. Call it over optimism perhaps but I really feel we can get 3 pts off them, however it won't be enough imo

G.K.

cgpg5 wrote: »

Well in my eyes they are the team we have the best chance of beating. They really seem to be at 6's and 7's at the moment (granted they were similar (off the pitch) in 2006- but in my view they'd a much superior side back then). The Trap factor may play a role too. In my view we really have to look at the Italians as a team we can beat. The record is a factor too perhaps but looking back to 2010 qualifiers we played well against them at home and conceded late on to prevent us from winning. I still can't get over how we left it behind us in Rome. Call it over optimism perhaps but I really feel we can get 3 pts off them, however it won't be enough imo

I'm assuming you refer to the match fixing scandal?

Because their options are fantastic imo.

cgpg5

G.K. wrote: »

I'm assuming you refer to the match fixing scandal?

Because their options are fantastic imo.

Yes although the 3 0 reverse fri can't be great for confidence.

Am taking heart from the fact that their last major tournament showing was frankly awful

listermint

Having read through the entire thread, ive just cancelled my flights and redirected by betting strategy.

Sure now that we are the worst team in the group and i have all the results and the outcome all planned out through crystal ball theres no point in going.

Im pretty sure many of the posters here called City winning the league with the last kick of the game and drogba scoring the winning penalty in the champions league.


Take this little nugget with you, European football this year has been exciting and unpredictable, so il be the last to cast ridiculous casting statements on any team heading into this tournament. Im going to enjoy it and catch a beer or two while im there.

Rekop dog

cgpg5 wrote: »

Yes although the 3 0 reverse fri can't be great for confidence.

Am taking heart from the fact that their last major tournament showing was frankly awful

3 goals came after wholescale changes near the end of the game. It would be wrong to take too much confidence from that result.

Very different squad to last world cup too.

kitakyushu

listermint wrote: »

Having read through the entire thread, ive just cancelled my flights and redirected by betting strategy.

Sure now that we are the worst team in the group and i have all the results and the outcome all planned out through crystal ball theres no point in going.

Im pretty sure many of the posters here called City winning the league with the last kick of the game and drogba scoring the winning penalty in the champions league.


Take this little nugget with you, European football this year has been exciting and unpredictable, so il be the last to cast ridiculous casting statements on any team heading into this tournament. Im going to enjoy it and catch a beer or two while im there.

Anything can happen alright. My feeling tho is even with the so called "shock teams" (of which people are hoping Ireland will be one) there's usually evidence in place long before of their potential. Man City winning the league wasn't exactly a surprise even if it took them til the lack kick of the ball to do it. People talk about Chelsea winning the CL like they were from the Championship rather than multi-million pound operation with many many star players who won many top trophies.

When was the last time a team truly came from nowhere to beat the big boys? Even Greece winning in 2004 should have been seen coming to some degree. Check out their results in qualifying prior to it. Spectacular run. Denmark in 92? They had a better points total than some of the actual qualifiers and at their best they'd actually managed a win in Belgrade.

My issue with Ireland is that other than blowing a few good leads we haven't done it against anyone up to now and yet people are expecting/hoping it'll suddenly happen in the finals.

Idbatterim

ha the negativity is here is beyond belief! its like when we compare ourselves to the other big nations, that we are comparing like with like! they have populations, leagues and resources way in excess of our own. (not to mention that football would be the main national sport there, soccer here comes second to GAA and also faces stiff competition from Rugby). Nearly everything comes down to resources, either at club or international level, and as far as im concerned, Ireland always exceed the sum of her parts. How many of the big teams would you say the exact opposite about? Certainly England and Spain until recently. How many people here judged Chelsea winning the CL? Greece winning the Euros in 2004. Denmark in 92? Of course there will always be "favourites" for what its worth, but I think you can nearly forget trying to apply logic to football any more. If everyone is so sure of the outcome and the tournaments predictability, better just tune in for the Germany v Spain final.

Pro. F

Re Dunne: they way he plays for Ireland - with St Ledger and Given around him - I would rate him as up there with the best centre backs in the tournament. He has been immense at times for us over the last few years. He's obviously not miles above the rest of them, but he's in the top echelon imo.

Re Italy: When their friendly results have been so bad, their group was a disaster zone and you hear that they are still having trouble settling on their first 11 that starts to generate a bit of confidence for some sort of result. The problem is we play them in the last game so they have the best chance of having sorted themselves out by then.

Croatia just drew with Norway. Didn't see that game but Norway were awful against England. People have been saying that they have better players than us, but do they really? We have some real quality in goal, central defence and up front. I would still expect them to dominate possession, but I'm not yet convinced that they are anything special.

kitakyushu

Agree with you on the Italy thing. When it comes to a team like Italy or England (big teams who frequently perform badly in groups) you always you want to get them in the first game when they are still a mess.

I'd have loved to have gotten the same teams but in the match-order Italy, Spain, Croatia.

briany

Pro. F wrote: »

Croatia just drew with Norway. Didn't see that game but Norway were awful against England. People have been saying that they have better players than us, but do they really? We have some real quality in goal, central defence and up front. I would still expect them to dominate possession, but I'm not yet convinced that they are anything special.

I'd read more into Italy's latest result than Croatia's because Italy's loss was fairly emphatic while Croatia drew to an OK Norwegian team who were unlucky not to get out of their group. Neither team was going to go in gung-ho because for one it's a tune up and for the other, an end of season friendly.

Ireland have a safe pair of hands in Given, a pair of tough defenders in Dunne and O'Shea, some tricky wingers in Duff, McClean and McGeady, and a nice selection of strikers in Keane and, er, the lads, so that's good but the problem will always be that holding midfield. If Ireland's midfield is nonexistent and all the opposing play is coming from there, Ireland will be out on their feet by the third game and not much shape to give account of themselves with all the shadow chasing they'll have done.

Xavi6

cgpg5 wrote: »

To be fair I'd rather have Richard Dunne playing for my country than many of these. These are all better footballers and probably fit better into superior sides but I think for sheer body on the line and sheer bravery and commitment Dunne is streets ahead of some of these.

How do you know the others don't put their body on the line as much as Dunne? What would be the ratio of Dunne games you watch both at club and international level in comparison to the others listed?

I believe that nationality as well as the more exposure to him has this notion that he is some sort of superstar defender heading into this tournament.

He's not, especially now that he well past his peak which was three or four years ago.

Think about it, if you could would you rather have Pique/Mexes/Pepe over Dunne for us? Not in a million years imo

All three are better defenders than Dunne so yes I'd have any of them.

I like Richard Dunne, I always have given how excellent he was for City, but take the blinkers off. Darkman's point was about there being no better centre halves in the tournament than Dunne. That was horseshit as there are plenty better*.


*That's not saying he's a 'bad' defender before the knives come out.

darkman2

Xavi6 wrote: »

He's not, especially now that he well past his peak which was three or four years ago.

Past his peak? Did you see the games v Armenia and Russia? Not putting his body on the line? Did you see his face after the Russia game? lol. Your being a fool now. What other central defender in this tournament had such colossal performances in any game for either club or country this season? Well? You have no answer to that because there is none. Instead you list off the likes of Pique - ffs like? He may pass the ball better than Dunne but is he a better defender - NO. I know it's a national sport to do down our own especially with those that support English clubs but get real. Paul McGrath, our best defender ever, disagrees with you. He thinks Dunne is the best central defender at this tournament. I will take his word over yours if you don't mind:pac:

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

Past his peak? Did you see the games v Armenia and Russia? Not putting his body on the line? Did you see his face after the Russia game? lol. Your being a fool now. What other central defender in this tournament had such colossal performances in any game for either club or country this season? Well? You have no answer to that because there is none. Instead you list off the likes of Pique - ffs like? He may pass the ball better than Dunne but is he a better defender - NO. I know it's a national sport to do down our own especially with those that support English clubs but get real. Paul McGrath, our best defender ever, disagrees with you. He thinks Dunne is the best central defender at this tournament. I will take his word over yours if you don't mind:pac:

I take it you have never seen Aston Villa play the season just gone. Because Dunne wasn't good by any means.

If you think Dunne is a better defender than Pique then you must be blind, seriously.

Paul McGrath never said that. The quote was:

He is one of the players we need to be at their best at the competition.

Please stop talking complete nonsense.

Xavi6

darkman2 wrote: »

Past his peak? Did you see the games v Armenia and Russia? Not putting his body on the line? Did you see his face after the Russia game? lol. Your being a fool now. What other central defender in this tournament had such colossal performances in any game for either club or country this season? Well? You have no answer to that because there is none. Instead you list off the likes of Pique - ffs like? He may pass the ball better than Dunne but is he a better defender - NO. I know it's a national sport to do down our own especially with those that support English clubs but get real. Paul McGrath, our best defender ever, disagrees with you. He thinks Dunne is the best central defender at this tournament. I will take his word over yours if you don't mind:pac:

Ah so you base your opinions on what someone else says. I'll stick to forming thoughts of my own thanks.

You made a statement that he is the best central defender at the tournament yet you have only chosen to dispell a few of my suggestions. Feel free to give reasons for the rest at your convenience.

And yes, at almost 33 Dunne is past his peak.

Pro. F

darkman2 wrote: »

Not putting his body on the line? Did you see his face after the Russia game? lol.

You are absolutely shít at reading.

Xavi6 wrote: »

How do you know the others don't put their body on the line as much as Dunne? What would be the ratio of Dunne games you watch both at club and international level in comparison to the others listed?

I believe that nationality as well as the more exposure to him has this notion that he is some sort of superstar defender heading into this tournament.

He's not, especially now that he well past his peak which was three or four years ago.

All three are better defenders than Dunne so yes I'd have any of them.

I like Richard Dunne, I always have given how excellent he was for City, but take the blinkers off. Darkman's point was about there being no better centre halves in the tournament than Dunne. That was horseshit as there are plenty better*.

*That's not saying he's a 'bad' defender before the knives come out.

It's a good point you make about Dunne being watched far more than the other centre backs. Especially when you consider international games. Still, based on club form that I've seen of the other centre backs, I would be surprised if I see a clearly better stopper type centre back at the tournament.

I'm surprised you rate Mexes so highly. He's a lazy and petulant waster imo.

darkman2

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah so you base your opinions on what someone else says. I'll stick to forming thoughts of my own thanks.

You made a statement that he is the best central defender at the tournament yet you have only chosen to dispell a few of my suggestions. Feel free to give reasons for the rest at your convenience.

And yes, at almost 33 Dunne is past his peak.

No because that would take all day. Your clearly a fool in any case if you really believe what all your picks are better central defenders (and we are talking CENTRAL defenders btw) so i'm not inclined to even discuss it you.:pac:

Xavi6

darkman2 wrote: »

No because that would take all day. Your clearly a fool in any case if you really believe what all your picks are better central defenders (and we are talking CENTRAL defenders btw) so i'm not inclined to even discuss it you.:pac:

I know we're talking CENTRAL defenders because every one I listed is a CENTRAL defender :rolleyes:

Look you made another stupid statement, got called on it and now can't back up your point. Take your loss and come back again next week.

SirDelboy18

darkman2 wrote: »

No because that would take all day. Your clearly a fool in any case if you really believe what all your picks are better central defenders (and we are talking CENTRAL defenders btw) so i'm not inclined to even discuss it you.:pac:

All the players he listed are CENTRAL defenders. ( We are talking CENTRAL defenders by the way)

Please, I'm genuinely begging you, please tell us why Richard Dunne is better than the likes of the players mentioned earlier. Please!!

kitakyushu

I've noticed there's a habit with Ireland of bigging-up whoever our leading CB is at any given time into being something he's not. McCarthy got a lot of praise despite him being nothing more than a fit, strong hoofer. Cunningham was made out to be some sort of Baresi-alike because he could hold onto a ball for more than 2 seconds or play a pass out of defence, now it's being argued here that Dunne is actually better than guys like Hummels or Chiellini. Good for a laugh anyway.

Dunne is where his talent deserves (ie a bottom half prem team). He's been in that bracket pretty much his whole career.

cgpg5

I see where you're coming from Xavi.

Put it this way. If I were a top ten prem side who do I want? The majority of those ahead of Dunne, yes.

International is a much different ball game though. Dunne isn't going to pick out 80 yard passes or start attacks at will but boy will he throw his body and everything else on the line where it counts. We're not saying he's world class but he's the one man you could trust for this Ireland side to keep us in games. He's one of those that excels better at international level if that makes sense. Would I rather have players like Pique who looked like a lost puppy v Chelsea when high ball came in in the second leg? Or players who look grand on the ball but are found lacking when it comes to making that last ditch tackle? I'd have Dunne any day of the week tbh.

But I will reiterate if I were looking for a defender for a top ten side to play week in week out I'd have those on your list first. But Dunne just suits Ireland perfectly and we need players like him far more than so called better nations do

bucketybuck

Xavi6 wrote: »

How do you know the others don't put their body on the line as much as Dunne?

Oh, didn't you know? Only Irish players play with passion, blood, sweat, tears and their hearts on their sleeves, not those Johnny Foreigners.

None of them Europeans would ever put their bodies on the line for their countries, don't be silly.

Jesus Wept

We're going to beat them all 0-0.

briany

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh, didn't you know? Only Irish players play with passion, blood, sweat, tears and their hearts on their sleeves, not those Johnny Foreigners.

None of them Europeans would ever put their bodies on the line for their countries, don't be silly.

No they wouldn't but that's not a bad thing for them it's just a difference in respective attitudes, approaches and cultures of the game. Somebody linked to an article with a Spanish player a while ago talking about how he just couldn't get his head around what he saw as the British emphasis on physicality and tackling and those being amongst the most desirable qualities for a player to have. He acknowledged that tackling was a part of the game but it was to be used as a last resort to win the ball. We probably won't see continental players put their body on the line as much the likes of Dunne simply because, to them, it shouldn't need to happen.

G.K.

Of course european players would put their bodies on the line - it's called defending.

Suggesting they would do otherwise is ridiculous.

dsmythy

darkman2 wrote: »

It's simply a fact. And we beat France. I think Ireland will do well in this tournament. If people are so downbeat and dismissive of the team then don't watch the Ireland games. And don't jump on the bandwagon either if they do do well. Don't be a hipocrite. Stick to your belief they are too ****e to be there.

God help the team if they made it to the final. They'd have few fans to cheer them because they'd all be gone home to avoid being hypocrites after dismissing the team's chances.

briany

G.K. wrote: »

Of course european players would put their bodies on the line - it's called defending.

Suggesting they would do otherwise is ridiculous.

To put your body on the line, to me anyway, means to risk bodily harm, usually in the pursuit of something. In this case it would be to stop the opposing team from scoring but that should be a last resort for a player because with the risk of bodily harm comes the risk of injury. They can certainly put bodies in the way but those bodies don't necessarily have to be all about using physicality to defend as it may just take a skillful touch to avert the danger with no bodily harm done. Dunne's never been shy of using his physical presence to help him and I think we all kind of like to see him boss an attacking player but if defenders on other teams feel different and prefer to try and go about their business with a bit more finesse I don't think it would be grounds to question their commitment.

kitakyushu

G.K. wrote: »

Of course european players would put their bodies on the line - it's called defending.

Suggesting they would do otherwise is ridiculous.

Slightly on topic and off topic but has anyone noticed that defenders these days rarely/never slide in on a goalbound shot when they're the last player?

I remember when I was a kid if an attacker was wide of the goalmouth with an open goal the last defender would always throw in a slide in the half-chance of stopping a rolled shot on an open goal, but nowadays they seem to just jog resignedly in the direction of the open goal but make no physical attempt to stop the shot. I'm sure there's still exception but it seems the norm to not bother in those particular situations anymore.

I don't know if coaches are telling them not to do it but I never heard of anyone getting injured this way so I don't know why they wouldn't at least try.

Anyway, back to slagging Ireland's chances next week.

G.K.

As a last line of action I'd expect anyone to put their body on the line (With potential eye injury the only exception). If the other defenders do this less it's not because they're less committed, it's because they're better defeneders and don't let the situation get to the point where they need to put their body on the line.

G.K.

kitakyushu wrote: »

Slightly on topic and off topic but has anyone noticed that defenders these days rarely/never slide in on a goalbound shot when they're the last player?

I remember when I was a kid if an attacker was wide of the goalmouth with an open goal the last defender would always throw in a slide in the half-chance of stopping a rolled shot on an open goal, but nowadays they seem to just jog resignedly in the direction of the open goal but make no physical attempt to stop the shot. I'm sure there's still exception but it seems the norm to not bother in those particular situations anymore.

I don't know if coaches are telling them not to do it but I never heard of anyone getting injured this way so I don't know why they wouldn't at least try.

Anyway, back to slagging Ireland's chances next week.

I'd certainly demand that from players if I were a coach.

Pro. F

G.K. wrote: »

As a last line of action I'd expect anyone to put their body on the line (With potential eye injury the only exception). If the other defenders do this less it's not because they're less committed, it's because they're better defeneders and don't let the situation get to the point where they need to put their body on the line.

Or it's because their teams are better and don't have the opposition cutting them open so much. A lot of the last ditch defending that Dunne does could not be prevented from the centre back's role.

G.K.

Agreed, probably should have said that.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

cgpg5 wrote: »

Would I rather have players like Pique who looked like a lost puppy v Chelsea when high ball came in in the second leg? Or players who look grand on the ball but are found lacking when it comes to making that last ditch tackle? I'd have Dunne any day of the week tbh.

On a side note Pique only played about 20 of the 180 minutes vs Barca (came off after treatment on 26 mins), and it goes without saying that he's a better defender than Dunne ever was, that's not up for debate.

cgpg5

THFC wrote: »

On a side note Pique only played about 20 of the 180 minutes vs Barca (came off after treatment on 26 mins), and it goes without saying that he's a better defender than Dunne ever was, that's not up for debate.

Better footballer yes.

Would he do a better job for us in these Euro's than Dunne? No way.

Would he do a better job for a premier league side than Dunne? Absolutely

df1985

BELIEVE

Beefy78

recylingbin wrote: »

There's no underestimation.
We'll play three games and go home.

England are in an easy group, but will still probably not make the second round. That's the reality of how poor they are right now.

England aren't in an easy group. It's arguably easier on paper than Ireland's and certainly easier than the Holland/Portugal/Germany/Denmark group but it's not easy. One class team in France and then three fairly evenly matches sides going for second. It's a toss-up.

I'd actually swap our group for yours. Italy are in a shambles right now and Croatia aren't what they were. You'll lose to Spain but so will the rest and I'd expect Ireland to take second.

IMO, no one is underestimating Ireland's chances more than the Irish. Everyone I've spoken to over here seems to just be going over for the craic rather than because you think you've got a chance. I think even Trap is going with that attitude.

wonderfullife

re: Richard Dunne - he is basically the exact opposite of Messi, Hazard, Lampard etc. Hit and miss, error prone, inconsistent at club level. And a BEAST at international level. The others leave their beast performances for their clubs.

We've nothing to fear in the first game. Modric has been anonymous at times for Spurs in the 2nd half of the season. Sure, he might buzz and tear us apart but we've really nothing to fear. The Spain game, you don't need to be Mystic Meg .....they will have 70% possession and try walk the ball into the net. If we frustrate them long enough, we can do well. Put it this way, 0-0 at half time in that game looks an amazing bet whatever the odds. Spain simply do not rip teams to shreds, mainly because teams know to park the bus against them.

I fancy Italy to shock Spain in the 1st game. Italian football is in dire straights and the players, if they have any pride at all, will give the performance of their lives to try restore some pride. Italy have some really good defenders and who knows what mood Super Mario will be in. Feel free to quote this as an absolutely ridiculous post but i can genuinely see Spain struggling to make it out of the group.

Jesus Wept

wonderfullife wrote: »

re: Richard Dunne - he is basically the exact opposite of Messi, Hazard, Lampard etc. Hit and miss, error prone, inconsistent at club level. And a BEAST at international level. The others leave their beast performances for their clubs.

We've nothing to fear in the first game. Modric has been anonymous at times for Spurs in the 2nd half of the season. Sure, he might buzz and tear us apart but we've really nothing to fear. The Spain game, you don't need to be Mystic Meg .....they will have 70% possession and try walk the ball into the net. If we frustrate them long enough, we can do well. Put it this way, 0-0 at half time in that game looks an amazing bet whatever the odds. Spain simply do not rip teams to shreds, mainly because teams know to park the bus against them.

I fancy Italy to shock Spain in the 1st game. Italian football is in dire straights and the players, if they have any pride at all, will give the performance of their lives to try restore some pride. Italy have some really good defenders and who knows what mood Super Mario will be in. Feel free to quote this as an absolutely ridiculous post but i can genuinely see Spain struggling to make it out of the group.

Spain are finished.