Is Earning Over 60K+ Still Considered A Good Wage These Days??

dj jarvis

Dudess wrote: »

My dad was a civil engineer and didn't get €60 grand, even after working up the ranks, although he was public sector - and despite the bullsh1t people write here, public sector pays less for such roles than private sector does.

come on dudess , bit of a blanket generalization is it not ?

i know a lot are on less than the private sector but equally some are on mad money

civil engineers for the county planners ( not all county's but most ) were reported to be earning 150k plus benefits and pensions

i also know of civil engineers working for semi states on 100k plus , and lets not go into how much they earn in the ESB group , so your father may have been poorly paid in relation to others , but many are paid well in excess of the private sector norms , and lets remember people in the private sector could NEVER fund a pension similar to public sector one

swings and roundabouts

as for the question from the OP - stupid stupid question - what planet do you live on ?

Turpentine

Cybercubed wrote: »

One of my younger friends of applying for civil engineering at university.

But one of the things that bothers him though is that civil engineers aren't paid that well. Nice starting salary of 25k but only 60k once at the top. He's considering doing another career because of its poorer pay.

But I was shocked to hear him say this and thought 60k was considered a good wage?

Is the standard of living becoming so high that 50k-60k nowadays is becoming a poor wage? Particularly for university graduates??

Is the average wage really rising that fast nowadays that if you're not 60k+ you'll struggle in life??

60k per annum is a good wage. If he doesn't think so at this early stage, he'll probably be one of those people who'll always be broke no matter how much they earn due to living outside their means.

padd b1975

freeze4real wrote: »

I remember arguing with some boarders that once I graduate the only job I'll go for is one that pays €45000 per year. That's salary in Ireland is took much for a graduate but it's being paid in some plays like the UK or the states.


In my area of progression I expect to get €60000 within 4 - 5years.

There are also individuals who get €450000+ and they're less that 26yrs old. THE.g those guys who work in quantitative fields. My bro for example works in a finanacial trading firm his mates if 23 earns 55000 per year plus 10% bonuses.


Yes they're jobs that pay that amount but it's. It those jobs that require no skills e.g call centre.

In the Uk those that earn over €60000 are a lot I mean a lot. Ireland is just s h i t in terms of ranges of employent.

Still trying to get to grips with the touch screen typing??

Ms.M

Is he working in the public sector?
I have engineers in the clann and they already make that. They're in their thirties. They're not civil engineers mind you.
60k is a good wage though, even for professions these days.

EDIT: Sorry dj jarvis, only saw your post now. I didn't think you could make anywhere near that in that kind of role in the public sector.
Mind you, my sister worked for the ESB national grid and was on 20-25k gross (punts) before she moved to private. That was back in 2002. She didn't think the prospects were that great.

blindside88

If he's choosing his line of Study based on how much he can potentially make chances are he'll never be a top earner, he should do something he enjoys and the money will come (to an extent)

con1982

some random drunk wrote: »

60k? If I was on half of that I'd be happy.

In fact I'd consider selling my body to old, bald, fat men if it meant I would earn 60k per annum.

So, if the old guy still had his own hair? Less than 60k, i'm thinking

blzbear

25K is a good start... lucky at that.........
60K- great...

these days you are lucky to get anything.


Its not all about money either

forfuxsake

questionmark? wrote: »

His weekly pay is £800 after tax!

My heart bleeds for him his life must be like so hard like :rolleyes:

Stop smoking or start smoking rollies.

£100 on the car per week before fuel? Tell him sell the car. I'm guessing he isnt 18 with that wage, mortgage etc... so why the hell is it costing this much? Keeping up with the Jones.

Also add this to his income
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

I couldn't agree more, especially with the smoking. He bought at the wrong time and can't get rid of the mortgage and the car will be paid off soon, making him 80 a week richer, and then run into the ground. I don't feel sorry for him and I don't think he feels sorry for himself. I'm only highlighting that 60k is a decent wage but it doesn't make you rich. As a single man/woman you would be pretty affluent with 800 a week.

Dudess

Ms.M wrote: »

Is he working in the public sector?
I have engineers in the clann and they already make that. They're in their thirties. They're not civil engineers mind you.
60k is a good wage though, even for professions these days.

EDIT: Sorry dj jarvis, only saw your post now. I didn't think you could make anywhere near that in that kind of role in the public sector.
Mind you, my sister worked for the ESB national grid and was on 20-25k gross (punts) before she moved to private. That was back in 2002. She didn't think the prospects were that great.

Whatever about semi states (and I appreciate ESB technical staff get paid very well - shame lazy people, especially the braindead dregs of humanity who post comments to TheJournal.ie, apply this to admin staff also) I would not believe for a second that county engineers are on 150k. I'm familiar with local government, having worked there and having a parent who worked there for 35 years - that kind of figure is just alien to the local government world.

dj jarvis

Dudess wrote: »

Whatever about semi states (and I appreciate ESB technical staff get paid very well - shame lazy people, especially the braindead dregs of humanity who post comments to TheJournal.ie, apply this to admin staff also) I would not believe for a second that county engineers are on 150k. I'm familiar with local government, having worked there and having a parent who worked there for 35 years - that kind of figure is just alien to the local government world.

the sindo and times reported about a year ago about county wage bills , on the back of the house hold charge being used for local services , but it was flagged that SOME staff in the local system were being paid loads compared to private sector , granted i never insinuated all were being paid overly , but in fairness a lot are , and the longer they ride the system the more they get

some county managers were reported as getting near 200k ( incl pension and perks )
the esb is a unfair example considering the astronomical wage they are on , but i would find it hard to believe that even today a civil engineer with state or semi state is earning anything other that 60k plus a year , but im open to correction on this one

because i know one person who works for a gov dept as a buildings maintenance man for the last 15 years and he is on just under 55k per year so would imagine civil engineer would be on more ?

discus

Afraid you're wrong Dudess, there are quite a few on 120k/150k. I've seen the roles advertised myself.

Ms.M

Dudess wrote: »

Whatever about semi states (and I appreciate ESB technical staff get paid very well - shame lazy people, especially the braindead dregs of humanity who post comments to TheJournal.ie, apply this to admin staff also) I would not believe for a second that county engineers are on 150k. I'm familiar with local government, having worked there and having a parent who worked there for 35 years - that kind of figure is just alien to the local government world.

Thanks Dudess. I was hoping someone would challenge that. I'd have no idea what county engineers earn but I know they don't drive nice enough cars to be making 150k!

freeze4real

padd b1975 wrote: »

freeze4real wrote: »

I remember arguing with some boarders that once I graduate the only job I'll go for is one that pays €45000 per year. That's salary in Ireland is took much for a graduate but it's being paid in some plays like the UK or the states.


In my area of progression I expect to get €60000 within 4 - 5years.

There are also individuals who get €450000+ and they're less that 26yrs old. THE.g those guys who work in quantitative fields. My bro for example works in a finanacial trading firm his mates if 23 earns 55000 per year plus 10% bonuses.


Yes they're jobs that pay that amount but it's. It those jobs that require no skills e.g call centre.

In the Uk those that earn over €60000 are a lot I mean a lot. Ireland is just s h i t in terms of ranges of employent.

Still trying to get to grips with the touch screen typing??

Lol I just noticed those grammatical errors caused by auto correction on the iPhone.

newmug

Shane732 wrote: »

:pac::pac:


For a professionally qualified person €60k is nowhere near the high end of the scale.

Hell a very good newly professionally qualified person is capable of earning €60k.

Yourself and the OP's friend need a good kick in he arse. I am a fully qualified electronic enginer. I started working for Intel (probably the most famous engineering company in the world) in 2003, I was earning 290 Euro per week. Yes, you read that correctly. By 2011 I was earning E500 per week. This was for 24 hour call-out availability, day and night, weekends, and even Christmas day. Thats what all the engineers in my area were on. I was made redundant last year along with 300 others. Only 3 people of my crew of 21 were kept. I didnt get a fraction of E60K for my redundancy after 8 years of loyal service. OP, your friend will get a nasty shock when he graduates if he thinks E60K per year is not a good wage.

Ms.M

dj jarvis wrote: »

the esb is a unfair example considering the astronomical wage they are on , but i would find it hard to believe that even today a civil engineer with state or semi state is earning anything other that 60k plus a year , but im open to correction on this one

My sister was on far less. She was working on the national grid. She's a qualified chemical engineer though, not a civil one. I don't know if that would make any difference. She'd also only just qualified so it was a starting wage.
I don't think they typically make that much. Mind you I don't think they typically earn that much in the private sector either. Until they've got a lot of experience. She's on a little more than 60k now and she's got engineers working under her authority. 60k is a very good wage, even for an engineer.

mikeystipey

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

60k is a great wage in the real world. I'd assume he'd have a lot of opportunities for nixers as well outside of that...doing stuff like ...engineering with civility and other such things :pac:

Engineering with civility...I did chortle

MysticalRain

60k is a great wage considering most civil engineers I know are either on the dole or have emigrated after the construction bubble burst.

Odysseus

I would think that it is just about ok for my qualifications and experience. But then again I do earn more than than, I just have to do private work to boost my HSE wage in order to get it.

Dudess

I doubt I'll ever earn 60k.

RMD

Depends on how ambitious you are. For many 60k is an amazing wage, for others it's an awful wage. It all depends on how far you plan to go.

newmug

RMD wrote: »

Depends on how ambitious you are. For many 60k is an amazing wage, for others it's an awful wage. It all depends on how far you plan to go.

YYeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. It all depends on how much you wish for it:rolleyes:

Sea Filly

Dudess wrote: »

I doubt I'll ever earn 60k.

Me neither, unless I go down the PhD road. But that would mean serious financial hardship to get there, and I'm 28 now so...

Sea Filly

RMD wrote: »

Depends on how ambitious you are. For many 60k is an amazing wage, for others it's an awful wage. It all depends on how far you plan to go.

Should ambition be measured by how much you earn? So many people love their jobs, or work in very rewarding careers but could never dream of earning 60k per annum. Meanwhile others get paid lots but hate going in each and every day.

Dudess

Ideal age to be doing a phd IMO - still young but old enough to have the maturity for it. However it's a massive commitment and it's tough. Awful brokeness too as you say.

Dudess

Sea Filly wrote: »

Should ambition be measured by how much you earn? So many people love their jobs, or work in very rewarding careers but could never dream of earning 60k per annum. Meanwhile others get paid lots but hate going in each and every day.

Had a job that paid way more than I earn now - and there were far more prospects in terms of promotion, pay increases etc. Hated it so much.
Adore my job now even if there isn't much scope to advance. I look forward to going into work some days though. It's worth the paycut.
To be fair though, if you have dependants, what you earn is going to be of more importance than job satisfaction I'd imagine.

Mark200

Sea Filly wrote: »

RMD wrote: »

Depends on how ambitious you are. For many 60k is an amazing wage, for others it's an awful wage. It all depends on how far you plan to go.

Should ambition be measured by how much you earn? So many people love their jobs, or work in very rewarding careers but could never dream of earning 60k per annum. Meanwhile others get paid lots but hate going in each and every day.

And then there are the people who earn lots AND enjoy what they're doing

Personally I wouldn't be enthusiastic about going into an area where the top wage is 60k (and that's what this topic is about.. the 'top' wage).

Not that I have a wishlist of things I'd want to be spending money on, but knowing that no matter how long/hard I work I'll never be earning more than twice a graduate salary?

But again, that doesn't mean I'd take a job I don't enjoy just for the money. But it is very possible to get both enjoyment and high salary.

Carles Puyol

To answer the question in the thread title, yes, it is a good wage.

However, if that's the max he can earn, well, I wouldn't blame him for switching careers.

markgb

forfuxsake wrote: »

He smokes a pack a day, more at weekends and this takes another 70, leaving him 380.His car costs him about 100 a week(tax/insurance/loan repayments) with another 80 on fuel for his commute. So now he has 200 left but from that he still has to buy food, clothes, medical bills and everything else for four people.

Interesting that he prioritises smokes over food and medical bills for his dependents :rolleyes:

Raisins

Yes of course it's a good wage in a general context.

A silly comment by some leaving cert student shouldn't lead to massive thread. I remember a story in the Irish Times a while back claiming that some huge percentage of LC's intended to earn 100k within x number of years. That's just immaturity. The same poll isn't taken when students are repeating exams in college, working part time and trying to pay their debts.

As an aside many civil engineers earn way in excess of 60k. It depends on the course your career takes. That's why these students need guidance counsellors.

RMD

newmug wrote: »

YYeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. It all depends on how much you wish for it:rolleyes:

No. It depends entirely on how hard you're willing to work for it. Money can't be wished upon, but it can be worked for. Get an education, get a good profession and break your arse. You will reap the rewards.

Sea Filly

Mark200 wrote: »

And then there are the people who earn lots AND enjoy what they're doing

Personally I wouldn't be enthusiastic about going into an area where the top wage is 60k (and that's what this topic is about.. the 'top' wage).

Not that I have a wishlist of things I'd want to be spending money on, but knowing that no matter how long/hard I work I'll never be earning more than twice a graduate salary?

But again, that doesn't mean I'd take a job I don't enjoy just for the money. But it is very possible to get both enjoyment and high salary.

Of course.

But he seemed to be exclusively equating ambition with money.

I doubt the average graduate salary is 30k though. In my field, it wasn't even that in the "boom" years.

Muir

Sure Aldi pays better:

http://www.graduates.aldirecruitment.ie/the_rewards/index.asp

60k starting, increases over 4 years to 88,250, Audi A4...

Mr Benevolent

forfuxsake wrote: »

It's a decent wage.

A friend of mine earns that. He gets about 800 a week after tax etc. His boom-time mortgage takes 350, leaving him 450. He smokes a pack a day, more at weekends and this takes another 70, leaving him 380.His car costs him about 100 a week(tax/insurance/loan repayments) with another 80 on fuel for his commute. So now he has 200 left but from that he still has to buy food, clothes, medical bills and everything else for four people.

I earn just over 1/3 of that and have more free money at the end of the month than your friend does. And I'm not living at home or living frugally. Puts it into perspective really.

markgb

newmug wrote: »

Yourself and the OP's friend need a good kick in he arse. I am a fully qualified electronic enginer. I started working for Intel (probably the most famous engineering company in the world) in 2003, I was earning 290 Euro per week. Yes, you read that correctly. By 2011 I was earning E500 per week. This was for 24 hour call-out availability, day and night, weekends, and even Christmas day. Thats what all the engineers in my area were on. I was made redundant last year along with 300 others. Only 3 people of my crew of 21 were kept. I didnt get a fraction of E60K for my redundancy after 8 years of loyal service. OP, your friend will get a nasty shock when he graduates if he thinks E60K per year is not a good wage.

Really? You have a university degree in electronic engineering and you only earned 15k a year from Intel? It sounds more like you had more of a technician role for some reason. Intel normally starts R&D engineering grads closer to 30K. And the pay scale for engineers goes up very high. Principal engineers would probably certainly be earning 6 figures with bonuses etc.

Shane732

newmug wrote: »

Yourself and the OP's friend need a good kick in he arse. I am a fully qualified electronic enginer. I started working for Intel (probably the most famous engineering company in the world) in 2003, I was earning 290 Euro per week. Yes, you read that correctly. By 2011 I was earning E500 per week. This was for 24 hour call-out availability, day and night, weekends, and even Christmas day. Thats what all the engineers in my area were on. I was made redundant last year along with 300 others. Only 3 people of my crew of 21 were kept. I didnt get a fraction of E60K for my redundancy after 8 years of loyal service. OP, your friend will get a nasty shock when he graduates if he thinks E60K per year is not a good wage.

Shall I bend over for you?

Your figures seem a little fudged. The €500 a week would have been just over minimum wage - surely you don't think that is a good wage for a qualified engineer? Maybe it is, I know I wouldn't be happy with it.

Dudess

Confab wrote: »

I earn just over 1/3 of that and have more free money at the end of the month than your friend does. And I'm not living at home or living frugally. Puts it into perspective really.

The guy has children though.

newmug

RMD wrote: »

No. It depends entirely on how hard you're willing to work for it. Money can't be wished upon, but it can be worked for. Get an education, get a good profession and break your arse. You will reap the rewards.

Thats grand except, in reality, you wont. You will be subject to luck of the draw, like everybody else.

markgb wrote: »

Really? You have a university degree in electronic engineering and you only earned 15k a year from Intel? It sounds more like you had more of a technician role for some reason. Intel normally starts R&D engineering grads closer to 30K. And the pay scale for engineers goes up very high. Principal engineers would probably certainly be earning 6 figures with bonuses etc.

Well there ya go. You havent a clue who gets paid what, your figures are all wrong. I know all about what Intel starts people on, I spent my twenties there.

Shane732 wrote: »

Shall I bend over for you?

Your figures seem a little fudged. The €500 a week would have been just over minimum wage - surely you don't think that is a good wage for a qualified engineer? Maybe it is, I know I wouldn't be happy with it.

I dont think its a good wage, I'm just telling you its the norm.

Sappa

Dudess wrote: »

Confab wrote: »

I earn just over 1/3 of that and have more free money at the end of the month than your friend does. And I'm not living at home or living frugally. Puts it into perspective really.

The guy has children though.

Your forgetting the generous childrens allowances he gets,plus he may have benefits in kind.
Amazing how poorly he budgets,he is obviously living way beyond his means a 1500+ mortgage per month,huge smoking habit,there are many ways he could cut corners from those statistics.

Conguill

Not going to wade into what figure is a reasonable wage but OP's friend is completely wrong about the maximum salary for a civil engineer. A few random examples below.

MD of Sisk and of SIAC (building contractors), CEO of the National Roads Authority, directors of engineering consultancies (PM Group, Arup, Jacobs etc.) are civil engineers and are all comfortably on six figures.

I would be surprised if Dublin City Council's chief engineer was on less than 100k, pretty sure it is well above that.

The founders of CRH (building materials) are civil engineers and on Ireland's richest lists.

1ZRed

You seem to be unfamiliar with the whole engineering hierarchy;

Civil engineers are the boring ones,
The electronic engineers are the geeks,
The mechanical engineers are the real men,
The biomeds are the arrogant ones stuck between engineering and medicine,
The sports and fitness 'engineeers' are the jocks,
And the construction management engineers are the glorified builders.

So by that logic, mechanical and biomed must pay highest!:pac:

And the sport and fitness engineers are just dtf:p

Cuddlesworth

areyawell wrote: »

60k is a very well paid job. Average wage these days is 30-35k. How many jobs on irish jobs do you see with a wage of 60k. Probably 1% of them. Stop talking nonsense and living in a fairly land. Best paid jobs these days are probably programming as there is a massive demand in Ireland for them. Unless you have management material or very good at the work 10 or twenty years down the line ya might hit that wage

The average wage is for average people. A qualified engineer is not average.

krudler wrote: »

I work in a call centre but I wouldnt consider myself unskilled,underpaid sure :pac: every job has some sort of skillset

There is a firm accountable difference here between both jobs. A large percentage of the workforce could walk into your call centre job and within a week to a couple of weeks of cheap training do your job with ease. So the only barrier between you and other people replacing you is a small amount of money and a low risk of it not working out. If your wages surpass that amount of money, then there is no point in continuing to pay you that amount when another person can be gotten and kept for cheaper.

Some jobs like this pay more, simply because they are in some way far more unpleasant to do then others(cold fridge packing for example) so there is less demand there.

But there isn't a chance of you walking into my job without years of expensive training. And for plenty of other "well paid" jobs, I couldn't do them either without a huge amount of time and resources on either my part or the company that wants to hire me. So the professional job is paid more money, because there are far less people out there capable of replacing them and the cost of mistakes can be astronomical.


So yeah, 60k can in certain circumstances be a low wage.

Jimmyhologram

Raisins wrote: »

As an aside many civil engineers earn way in excess of 60k. It depends on the course your career takes. That's why these students need guidance counsellors.

I wonder what shape career guidance counselling is in these days. When I was at school, the job was given to a guy who was not very clued in at all, mainly because he couldn't cope in a normal classroom. Hence many people chose college courses on fairly spurious grounds. Having said that, many people at that age won't make the right long-term decision about their future no matter how much guidance they receive.

Odysseus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The average wage is for average people. A qualified engineer is not average.



There is a firm accountable difference here between both jobs. A large percentage of the workforce could walk into your call centre job and within a week to a couple of weeks of cheap training do your job with ease. So the only barrier between you and other people replacing you is a small amount of money and a low risk of it not working out. If your wages surpass that amount of money, then there is no point in continuing to pay you that amount when another person can be gotten and kept for cheaper.

Some jobs like this pay more, simply because they are in some way far more unpleasant to do then others(cold fridge packing for example) so there is less demand there.



But there isn't a chance of you walking into my job without years of expensive training. And for plenty of other "well paid" jobs, I couldn't do them either without a huge amount of time and resources on either my part or the company that wants to hire me. So the professional job is paid more money, because there are far less people out there capable of replacing them and the cost of mistakes can be astronomical.


So yeah, 60k can in certain circumstances be a low wage.

Unless you work for the HSE when suddenly people think you should work for next to nothing

Sandwlch

Odysseus wrote: »

Unless you work for the HSE when suddenly people think you should work for next to nothing

I thought the HSE was the organisation with loads of bureaucracy doing next to nothing but still being paid well above the average

Odysseus

Does your post not validate my point

Cuddlesworth

Odysseus wrote: »

Does your post not validate my point

I was of the understanding that a large part of the HSE's staffing problem was the duplication of roles that happened when it was set up to replace the health boards.

C.D.

freeze4real wrote: »

I remember arguing with some boardsies that once I graduate the only job I'll go for is one that pays €45000 per year. That's salary in Ireland is too much for a graduate but it's being paid in some places like the UK Canada or the states.

In my area of profession I expect to get €60000 within 4 - 5years.

There are also individuals who get €450000+ and they're less that 26yrs old. THE.g those guys who work in quantitative fields. My bro for example works in a financial trading firm his mates if 23 earns 55000 per year plus 10% bonuses.


Yes they're jobs that pay that amount but it's. It those jobs that require no skills e.g call centre.

In the Uk those that earn over €60000 are a lot I mean a lot. Ireland is just s h i t in terms of ranges of employent.

I remember that thread. I would agree that 60k salaries are rare enough in Ireland for people with a few years experience. It is not uncommon to receive that kind of money in Investment Banking in a few years. While I don't work in HR, I keep up to date with graduate recruitment trends as they interest me. I have friends who work in recruitment, friends in places like Davy's, Susquehanna, Fortis etc. and to be kind to you, if you are tracking a 2.2 or a 2.1 and struggle to get an internship with one of the big 4 accountancy firms (who pay low to mid 20's for new grads FYI), let alone in IB, you will need to re-align your expectations. IB tends to recruit top tier talent. I honestly do mean it in the kindest possible way, you'll be in for a shock otherwise.

Keeping on topic, most graduate civil engineers are not getting any employment at present within in their industry. There have been massive cutbacks at all levels within Ireland and many guys at all levels have had to go abroad.

60K is what I would expect for an Engineer that does not move into management. As already discussed here, once you move into management 6 figures is not an unrealistic expectation.

Odysseus

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I was of the understanding that a large part of the HSE's staffing problem was the duplication of roles that happened when it was set up to replace the health boards.

Sadly it is just about to happen again with the new name change, though only with management. Sadly this never happens with those of us who work with patients. It will cost a fcuking fortune

Sea Filly

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The average wage is for average people. A qualified engineer is not average.

Well, professionally speaking anyway...

Mark200

Sea Filly wrote: »

I doubt the average graduate salary is 30k though. In my field, it wasn't even that in the "boom" years.

Well I was more talking about the grad salary in my area rather than all graduates