Donegal - the real Rebel County?

NIMAN

After Donegal led the way again with a resounding 'no' vote in the Fiscal Treaty referendum, it appears that we seem to be turning into an anti-everything people.

I suppose it probably goes with the fact that Sinn Fein have a strong presence here, and they are anti-everything too.

Are we now the county that the Government are fearing?
Will we suffer because of this attitude?
Have we been I'll-treated that much more than any other county to make us like this?

retalivity

Are we now the county that the Government are fearing?

Not a chance. 150000 out of 4 million is next to nothing

Will we suffer because of this attitude?

undoubtedly. we are now an easy target

Have we been I'll-treated that much more than any other county to make us like this?

I cant answer for this as the only other county i lived in in ireland was dublin when I was in college. however, i will give my own opinion, that we are not the most ill-treated, but because the FF gravy train kept enough people in yes mode for enough years, most people were happy.could you say that donegal has been treated any worse than say cavan, leitrim, roscommon? All been treated equally shíte in fairness.

Now though, the boat has been rocked, and I fear that while we all know about 'the forgotten county', we are only going to truly understand its meaning in the next few years. The shinner association is going to be cross to bear for years and years....

muffler

Lets face it most people who voted on the referendum personally hadn't a clue whether it was better to vote yes or no. Admittedly Sinn Fein have substantial support in the county and coupled with the anti household tax movement etc etc led to a no vote. Im not going to go into the whole politics of the thing but if Labour were not in bed with Fine Gael then the party may have taken a different direction on advising the electorate as to how to vote on the Fiscal Treaty and if that were the case then we would have seen a much larger opposition to it.

To me the no vote was more of a statement of opposition to the present government and its policies rather than a rejection of a treaty that most people dont understand.

Donegal like a couple of other border counties has been ignored by successive governments. When was the last time we seen major investment in job creation, health care, infrastructure etc etc at county level? We have been known as the "forgotten county" for a long, long time and that tag wasn't derived as the result of continued capital funding.

The piss takers would say that the best thing to come out of Donegal was the road yet when the opportunity was there to upgrade that road (A5) our lads in Dail Eireann decided it was better to pull out of a commitment they made to the NI Executive and give the money instead to the very people who were responsible for bringing this country to its knees.

The FF and FG parties have lost a lot of support here which has been picked up by SF. Whether people like it or not there's a real chance that SF could conceivably form part of a coalition government in the not so distant future if they continue to make inroads on the political field and if that happens then there is every possibility that we could reap the rewards.

Most political analysts would agree that FG/Lab would loose the next general election and FF like the previous parties will be anxious to claw back their lost support in the county and the only way that will be possible is through investment. I dont therefore see any backlash from the government as a result of the no vote. In fact the opposite would be more to their advantage.

Noreen1

muffler wrote: »

Lets face it most people who voted on the referendum personally hadn't a clue whether it was better to vote yes or no. Admittedly Sinn Fein have substantial support in the county and coupled with the anti household tax movement etc etc led to a no vote. Im not going to go into the whole politics of the thing but if Labour were not in bed with Fine Gael then the party may have taken a different direction on advising the electorate as to how to vote on the Fiscal Treaty and if that were the case then we would have seen a much larger opposition to it.

To me the no vote was more of a statement of opposition to the present government and its policies rather than a rejection of a treaty that most people dont understand.

Donegal like a couple of other border counties has been ignored by successive governments. When was the last time we seen major investment in job creation, health care, infrastructure etc etc at county level? We have been known as the "forgotten county" for a long, long time and that tag wasn't derived as the result of continued capital funding.

The piss takers would say that the best thing to come out of Donegal was the road yet when the opportunity was there to upgrade that road (A5) our lads in Dail Eireann decided it was better to pull out of a commitment they made to the NI Executive and give the money instead to the very people who were responsible for bringing this country to its knees.

The FF and FG parties have lost a lot of support here which has been picked up by SF. Whether people like it or not there's a real chance that SF could conceivably form part of a coalition government in the not so distant future if they continue to make inroads on the political field and if that happens then there is every possibility that we could reap the rewards.

Most political analysts would agree that FG/Lab would loose the next general election and FF like the previous parties will be anxious to claw back their lost support in the county and the only way that will be possible is through investment. I dont therefore see any backlash from the government as a result of the no vote. In fact the opposite would be more to their advantage.

+1000. Great post, Muffler.

Pique

muffler wrote: »

To me the no vote was more of a statement of opposition to the present government and its policies rather than a rejection of a treaty that most people dont understand.
.

Unfortunately so true.

The ridiculous Facebook campaign of losing sovereignty etc whipped up a following in those who oppose anything beyond their parish.

leedslad

muffler wrote: »

Most political analysts would agree that FG/Lab would loose the next general election .

Which analyst have you heard saying this? It's a brave call to make this far out.In fairness they have been left with an almighty mess to clean up

Noreen1

leedslad wrote: »

Which analyst have you heard saying this? It's a brave call to make this far out.In fairness they have been left with an almighty mess to clean up

I'm not trying to answer for Muffler, but I don't think anyone can deny that Labour, in particular, have lost an awful lot of supporters because of the Household/Water Charges.
All it will take to decimate their support is an end to the Croke Park agreement, which is a strong possibility at this stage, imo.

Even if FG retain all their supporters into the next election (unlikely, since a percentage were protest voters, who feel betrayed by the whole "Not another cent" fiasco) - then who can they form a Coalition with?

FF? Never gonna happen! It would do too much damage top the core vote of both parties.
Labour? Likely to go the way of the Greens and PDs.
SF? Can't see it, somehow, but even if they were stupid enough to consider it, or even attempt it - I could see such a Coalition failing within weeks, rather than months.

Like it or not - there is a miasmic shift underway in Irish politics. The fact that many of FG/FF core voters are pensioners will only accelerate the change, since some of them wont be around for the next election.

Hopefully, that change will bring about some badly needed reform in the Irish political system!

leedslad

I think that's the real tragedy of the last election,that the protest parties didn't get a slice of the action,
I would love to see Adams,Doherty,Ó Snodaigh,Daly,Collins,Higgins etc.
trying to turn the country around with their hands tied behind their backs

Noreen1

At the present moment, I'd settle for accountability, preferably using some form of direct democracy, an end to the Party whip system, and a Government who would actually represent the people who elected them, in European/Troika negotiations - rather than trotting off to beg for scraps, or having their hair ruffled!:(

Finding a party who would actually implement these reforms might prove difficult, though!:p:D:D

2moreMinutes

NIMAN wrote: »

After Donegal led the way again with a resounding 'no' vote in the Fiscal Treaty referendum, it appears that we seem to be turning into an anti-everything people.

For some reason, Donegal people just seem to have a chip on their shoulder about almost everything. They complain about not getting any attention from Dublin even though I cant remember too much giving out when Jim McDaid played Santa a few years back in the sports dept.

We are a pointless little county in the grand scheme of things at the best of times and particularly now when the country has more issues to contend with. The sooner the people of Donegal realise that theres more to life than local issues and local "celebrities" pushing nonsense issues, we will all be better off.

To clarify, as someone who is born, bred and earning a living in Donegal, I feel I'm entitled to criticise my own county's people.

Joshua J

Sure is it any wonder we feel isolated. The only way out is through the north or *shudders* Leitrim.

echo beach

Could it be that many of the people who would have voted 'yes' are not in the county?
This might also explain the very low turnout in both Donegal constituencies.

The 'yes' campaign decided not to wate any effort in Donegal. There were a few posters but there was no canvassing, no public meetings, no ads in the local papers, no effort to get their vote out, not even a leaflet drop so they can hardly be surprised at the outcome.

muffler

2moreMinutes wrote: »

For some reason, Donegal people just seem to have a chip on their shoulder about almost everything.

And that includes your chip about people having chips :pac:

2moreMinutes wrote: »

They complain about not getting any attention from Dublin even though

No one is looking for attention but people expect the TDs they elected to fulfill their election promises. Donegal people want a fair crack of the whip and get the same funding and investment as other counties.

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I cant remember too much giving out when Jim McDaid played Santa a few years back in the sports dept.

Personally I cant stand the man but I tip my hat to him for what he done for the county when he was Minister of Fun. But if it came down to distributing capital investment and it was a choice between sports and health care then he got it wrong.

2moreMinutes wrote: »

We are a pointless little county in the grand scheme of things at the best of times and particularly now when the country has more issues to contend with.

We're a five seater, two constituency county and lets not forget that. It's as important to us, the ordinary punters, as it is to those who seek to fill those 5 seats together with their respective parties so it's far from pointless. The people of Donegal have showed, particularly in the last general election that we dont suffer fools easily.

2moreMinutes wrote: »

The sooner the people of Donegal realise that theres more to life than local issues and local "celebrities" pushing nonsense issues, we will all be better off.

No idea what you are referring to.

2moreMinutes wrote: »

To clarify, as someone who is born, bred and earning a living in Donegal, I feel I'm entitled to criticise my own county's people.

That hasn't earned you the right to criticise anyone. If you had a shred of loyalty in your bones you would backing Donegal and it's people instead of whining about people having "chips on their shoulders".

Quite frankly I'm surprised at the overall content of your post. I would have expected those type of comments from a troll born and reared in another county.

2moreMinutes

muffler wrote: »

That hasn't earned you the right to criticise anyone. If you had a shred of loyalty in your bones you would backing Donegal and it's people instead of whining about people having "chips on their shoulders".

I would love for there to be better infrastructure leading towards and within Donegal. I would love for there to be a long list of multinationals queueing up to locate here with 1000's of sustainable jobs in tow. I would love if ill members of our families didnt have to travel to Galway or Dublin for the world class treatment they deserve.

While I want all the above and a whole lot more, I'm also pretty realistic about where we are currently at in the country as a whole. For any one part of the country to be given a fair crack of the whip, the whole country must first be sorted.

Also not entirely sure if me having an apparent lack of loyalty towards Donegal is actually relevant and if it is, how is it meant to be shown? By living, working and spending my money here? By making a protest vote in a constitutional referendum? By highly recommending it as a place to visit to friends and acquaintances across the country and Europe? By coming up with a catchy protest slogan and going on national tv? Apart from the most basic levels of loyalty that I'm assuming everyone has towards their home towns and counties, is loyalty a help or a hindrance in trying to sort our current mess?

Quite frankly I'm surprised at the overall content of your post. I would have expected those type of comments from a troll born and reared in another county.

Generally speaking, it is an emotive topic and one that can and does create tensions amongst otherwise civil people. I have my opinions which are obviously not meant to simply annoy you or others.:)

K-9

NIMAN wrote: »

After Donegal led the way again with a resounding 'no' vote in the Fiscal Treaty referendum, it appears that we seem to be turning into an anti-everything people.

I suppose it probably goes with the fact that Sinn Fein have a strong presence here, and they are anti-everything too.

Are we now the county that the Government are fearing?
Will we suffer because of this attitude?
Have we been I'll-treated that much more than any other county to make us like this?

We've voted No a few times now when it comes to EU referenda, also the only county to vote No, No, No in the last Abortion referendum. Nothing to do with SF from looking at that.

Anti-everything? maybe! Well we do seem to like saying No in referenda anyway.

danjo

For those who think Donegal was wrong in rejecting the Fiscal Treaty see :

Link

The rush to please has backfired! We should have waited and used it as a bargaining tool.

tightropetom

@danjo - that link isn't working.

Just to throw a cat among the pigeons though - if only Donegal (and 3 other constituencies) voted no, might ye not be wrong? Surely every other constituency can't be wrong?

Of course it might just be that a lot of people will instinctively do the opposite to what Sinn Fein recommend because of mistrust. If Sinn Fein had supported the treaty, would the outcome have been different, I wonder?

Noreen1

tightropetom wrote: »

@danjo - that link isn't working.

Just to throw a cat among the pigeons though - if only Donegal (and 3 other constituencies) voted no, might ye not be wrong? Surely every other constituency can't be wrong?

Of course it might just be that a lot of people will instinctively do the opposite to what Sinn Fein recommend because of mistrust. If Sinn Fein had supported the treaty, would the outcome have been different, I wonder?

Donegal has had a lower disposable income, with higher unemployment than the rest of the Country for generations.

Hence, the effects of rising unemployment/cutbacks can be seen here long before it's as evident throughout the Country.
Might it be that Donegal is experiencing now, what the rest of the Country will experience in the coming years?

Why do you think the Government were in such a hurry to hold the referendum, and why do you think Enda is hiding from the press since he achieved a "Yes" vote - with nothing to show for it?

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Ireland will wish people had voted the same way both Donegal constituencies did, as time goes on.:(

ednwireland

Noreen1 wrote: »

I hope I'm wrong, but I fear Ireland will wish people had voted the same way both Donegal constituencies did, as time goes on.:(

honestly you think it would have made a difference whichever way you voted ?

seriously i dont think so this gov has no say since the reigns were given away by the last

Noreen1

ednwireland wrote: »

honestly you think it would have made a difference whichever way you voted ?

seriously i dont think so this gov has no say since the reigns were given away by the last

Yes, I do think it would have made a difference.

The crises in Spain will change the ballgame. We have severely limited our negotiating power to achieve a similar deal to what Spain will achieve, by limiting ourselves to continuing austerity, with vague promises of growth - none of the details of which have been been agreed, much less revealed to us.

The fact that Enda runs off to Europe, and has his hair ruffled by Sarkosy, while telling our European counterparts that "We all went mad" doesn't help!
Just who does he think he's meant to represent?:mad:

To add insult to injury - he refused to even talk to journalists yesterday.

He is coming across as a complete coward - afraid of European heads of state, afraid of his own electorate, and afraid to take questions from journalists.
We are the laughing stock of the entire world, at this stage - We have a Government that refuses to represent us in Europe, a political system that is in severe need of reform, a banking system that remains largely uncontrolled - and a Taoiseach that hides from us!

Had we voted "NO" - then a clear signal would have been sent that all is not rosy in the garden, that the Irish people are not happy to be ruled by Merkel, and that we, as a nation, are dissatisfied with the European response to the banking and currency crises.
In four years of tugging the forelock to Merkel and Sarkosy, we have achieved nothing that would either benefit the Irish citizen, or placate the almighty markets and ratings agencies.
It's time to call "Stop".
We want a resolution that has a least a chance of working - not calls to surrender ever more power to a Europe that is not helping this Country to resolve it's problems, only offering the chance to become ever more indebted, with interest bills, and an ESM contribution that we can ill afford.

We voted for a pig in a poke - vague threats and promises of growth - meanwhile SMEs continue to close, unemployment continues to rise, and Merkel thinks we have a couple of years to resolve the currency crises!

No Country has managed to cut it's way out of recession - ever!

Had we voted "No" - then the ratings agencies would have downgraded us.
Having said that - we are not in a position to borrow from the markets anyway - so it's a moot point.

What have we gained by voting "Yes"?
A promise of more debt, that will become increasingly difficult to pay, as tax increases and cuts cut ever deeper into disposable income, causing ever more closures of our SMEs, and higher unemployment.
That doesn't sound like a solution to me - more like a stranglehold tbh.

danjo

Apologies the Yahoo News link has expired. It referred to Mario Draghi stating that because we voted for the fiscal treaty there would be no debt reduction for Ireland. Here is a link to the Evening Herald's version LINK

danjo

ednwireland wrote: »

honestly you think it would have made a difference whichever way you voted ?

seriously i dont think so this gov has no say since the reigns were given away by the last

I think it would have made a difference. We should have waited to see what deal Spain achieves.
I agree the last government gave away our sovereignity but the present one, through the Fiscal Treaty, has cemented the loss into our Constitution.

I believe some people voted yes out of fear while others had a vain hope of a quid pro quo.
Anyway the deed is done so little point in recriminations now.

donegal_road

I voted no, and my sentiments are very much the same as Noreens. We may have lost our last bargaining chip.. at least we proved that we couldn't be herded into voting yes.

muffler

Guys/gals, can we stick to the original topic and local issues please. Several posts above would be more at home in the Politics forum.

Thanks.