Continuing Hodgson/Ferdinand/Terry Controversy

cloptrop

Caveman1 wrote: »

I dont see why people are making such a big deal about Hodgson's comments. He's Terrys manager he's obviously going to back him, even more so after he was found not guilty in court. If it was a lesser known player it probably wouldn't even make the papers

Anti racism stories are every tabloids wet dream . The england captain being involved. They are going to milk it . For the perfect story all theyd need is england ti turn out in free jt tshirts.
Anti Racism is a billion dollar industry.

CSF

Caveman1 wrote: »

I dont see why people are making such a big deal about Hodgson's comments. He's Terrys manager he's obviously going to back him, even more so after he was found not guilty in court. If it was a lesser known player it probably wouldn't even make the papers

There was no need for him to speak in any depth about the topic. A more classy man would have allowed the FA to get on with their case.

KH25

Caveman1 wrote: »

I dont see why people are making such a big deal about Hodgson's comments. He's Terrys manager he's obviously going to back him, even more so after he was found not guilty in court. If it was a lesser known player it probably wouldn't even make the papers

Its just putting himself in the firing line unnecessarily. There's so many ways it could adversely affect Hodgson e.g. claims that he's trying to influence the FA's decision. There's still a great many people who believe Terry should have been found guilty in court and also some who want to see him punished because of the whole Suarez affair. If Terry gets found guilty it could blow up in Hodgson's face. The whole thing is a media circus and Hodgson getting himself involved is just silly.

niallo27

Pro. F wrote: »

Do the two cases have the exact same evidence or are they quite different?

Well in your own opinion do you not think Suarez and liverpool should feel some bit aggrieved if Terry gets off with no punishment.

Pro. F

niallo27 wrote: »

Well in your own opinion do you not think Suarez and liverpool should feel some bit aggrieved if Terry gets off with no punishment.

That is not an answer.

Caveman1

CSF wrote: »

There was no need for him to speak in any depth about the topic. A more classy man would have allowed the FA to get on with their case.

Well maybe he believes it to be unfair and is just publicly backing JT, I know a lot of people hate the guy but every manager from club/country he's ever had are always backing him up so he must be doing something right.

eigrod

Caveman1 wrote: »

I dont see why people are making such a big deal about Hodgson's comments. He's Terrys manager he's obviously going to back him, even more so after he was found not guilty in court. If it was a lesser known player it probably wouldn't even make the papers

The FA are his employers. They are also the body conducting an investigation into the Terry incident, which involves another player who may or may not have been racially abused by Terry (a player who 'potentially' could play for England also). Hodgson should've kept his mouth shut.

CSF

Caveman1 wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

There was no need for him to speak in any depth about the topic. A more classy man would have allowed the FA to get on with their case.

Well maybe he believes it to be unfair and is just publicly backing JT, I know a lot of people hate the guy but every manager from club/country he's ever had are always backing him up so he must be doing something right.

Chelsea fan then, yeah?

GavRedKing

KH25 wrote: »

Its just putting himself in the firing line unnecessarily. There's so many ways it could adversely affect Hodgson e.g. claims that he's trying to influence the FA's decision. There's still a great many people who believe Terry should have been found guilty in court and also some who want to see him punished because of the whole Suarez affair. If Terry gets found guilty it could blow up in Hodgson's face. The whole thing is a media circus and Hodgson getting himself involved is just silly.

That has nothing to do with this case though, Liverpool defended Suarez to the hilt and rightfully so, hes their player and I'd expect that from any club, in many ways Suarez was made an example of, it didnt matter if it was him or a guy playing for any other of the 19 EPL clubs, the FA had to come down on racism issues.

In an ideal world, the FA would have acted months ago and JT would have got a ban and it would all be forgotten about but it was reported, a trial was had he was found not guilty and now the FA are having their own case dragging it on and on.

The world and his dog know what JT said and I'm sure we all know his defence at this stage also. If I was JT and the FA found me guilty I'd appeal it and point to the CPS case and its ruling.

Pro. F

Benimar wrote: »

No. There was no visual evidence in the Suarez case. There is here.

As the Suarez case 'proved' the FA aren't interested in context or nuances, just the words used. On that basis Terry should be getting a ban.

I think the way Liverpool and Suarez handled the incident was terrible, but I did feel 8 games was harsh given the evidence. However if Terry gets off, then Suarez was screwed.

Lip reading is always seen as unreliable to some extent in the courts. So the fact that that is the main evidence here doesn't make this case stronger than - or possibly not even as strong as - the one against Suarez.

Edit: Also you are completely wrong about the FA not being interested in context during the Suarez case. They spent a lot effort investigating and debating the context during the hearing and they made extensive reference to it in their findings.

eigrod

GavRedKing wrote: »

That has nothing to do with this case though, Liverpool defended Suarez to the hilt and rightfully so, hes their player and I'd expect that from any club, in many ways Suarez was made an example of, it didnt matter if it was him or a guy playing for any other of the 19 EPL clubs, the FA had to come down on racism issues.

Exactly. Were Suarez French, and had Laurent Blanc come out and said he hoped he'd be cleared (or "freed" as Hodgson said, whatever that means), then those who defended and supported Evra would've been righfully up in arms over it.

Roger Sterling

/Sees Su*rez being referenced and debated.

/Backs slowly away.

KH25

GavRedKing wrote: »

That has nothing to do with this case though, Liverpool defended Suarez to the hilt and rightfully so, hes their player and I'd expect that from any club, in many ways Suarez was made an example of, it didnt matter if it was him or a guy playing for any other of the 19 EPL clubs, the FA had to come down on racism issues.

In an ideal world, the FA would have acted months ago and JT would have got a ban and it would all be forgotten about but it was reported, a trial was had he was found not guilty and now the FA are having their own case dragging it on and on.

The world and his dog know what JT said and I'm sure we all know his defence at this stage also. If I was JT and the FA found me guilty I'd appeal it and point to the CPS case and its ruling.

Im not arguing with you there. All Im saying is that the Suarez thing is one of the elements making this into a media circus. The Terry incident should have been dealt with immediately by the FA for sure.

Pro. F

From the Guardian:

Rio Ferdinand's disciplinary case with the Football Association has taken place in secret and the defender is now waiting to hear whether his "choc ice" reference to Ashley Cole will lead to punishment.

The Guardian can reveal Ferdinand's hearing took place in Manchester last Friday and, after three days of deliberations, the FA is likely to announce the verdict either on Wednesday afternoon or on Thursday.

Ferdinand is charged with making improper comments on his Twitter site two days after Cole gave key evidence on behalf of his Chelsea team-mate John Terry during his trial at Westminster magistrates' court.

Terry was subsequently acquitted of racially abusing Anton Ferdinand, Rio's younger brother, when Chelsea played at QPR last October, and the Manchester United player had been responding to another Twitter user describing Cole as a "choc ice", meaning black on the outside and white on the inside.

Ferdinand responded: "I hear you fella! Choc ice is classic. Hahahahahaha!!'

He later deleted the tweet and claimed on Twitter that it was slang for someone being 'fake', but the FA charged him with making improper comments which included a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race.

Ferdinand, who appears to have lost his England career as a direct result of the Terry affair, denied the offence and requested a personal hearing to put across his side of the story.

I can't see how Ferdinand would be let off for this. It was a nasty, racially motivated thing to take part in, the evidence is clear that he said it and the argument that he didn't mean what everybody else thinks the phrase means is not credible. Rio is dumb as fúck some times.

The only way I could see him getting off would be with some technicality on how his deleted post on twitter was recorded or presented to the hearing or something like that. But he doesn't deserve to be let off from what I can see.

GavRedKing

KH25 wrote: »

Im not arguing with you there. All Im saying is that the Suarez thing is one of the elements making this into a media circus. The Terry incident should have been dealt with immediately by the FA for sure.

It should have but because of someone going to the police the subsequent CPS case went ahead and the FA didnt want to make a judgement until their ruling had been reached.

If he had been banned for 8 games at the time I wouldnt have had a problem with it but if he gets a ban now after the CPS case then JT should and probably will appeal it.

I think the FA will take the softly softly approach here though in light of the CPS case.

Roger Sterling

Pro. F wrote: »

From the Guardian:


I can't see how Ferdinand would be let off for this. It was a nasty, racially motivated thing to take part in, the evidence is clear that he said it and the argument that he didn't mean what everybody else thinks the phrase means is not credible. Rio is dumb as fúck some times.

The only way I could see him getting off would be with some technicality on how his deleted post on twitter was recorded or presented to the hearing or something like that. But he doesn't deserve to be let off from what I can see.

He is as thick as ditchwater. He was stupid to even go there and deserves any punishment he gets. I maintain Fergie should ban all players from Twitter, it only takes one bad reaction or reply to the amount of abuse they inevitably get on it to cause serious problems for the club. The likes of Rooney for example is a timebomb waiting to go off someday. I'd say he gets dogs abuse.

K-9

Pro. F wrote: »

Lip reading is always seen as unreliable to some extent in the courts. So the fact that that is the main evidence here doesn't make this case stronger than - or possibly not even as strong as - the one against Suarez.

Edit: Also you are completely wrong about the FA not being interested in context during the Suarez case. They spent a lot effort investigating and debating the context during the hearing and they made extensive reference to it in their findings.

Different burden of proof so I wouldn't say Terry is out of the woods yet. The FA will assume and presume a lot.