Continuing Hodgson/Ferdinand/Terry Controversy

G.K.

cgpg5 wrote: »

England have 4 CB's in squad right now. Why call up Ferdinand? I agree with GK, Hodgson should've used this opportunity to call up a midfield player. I'd have liked to see someone young like Britton given an experience

Britton's in his late 20's, just so you know. He's the guy I'd have taken.

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree it's a tad arrogant of Rio

Arrogant to think that he should have been selected ahead of Martin Kelly?

Come off it! You'd have a point if the player selected ahead of him came close to him ability wise, but he doesn't.

CSF

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He should sit back and stay silent. Its not his place to whinge about who is or isnt picked for the squad.

It really doesnt matter is Hodgson had left out Messi (if he were English obviously) . He picks the team and thats the way it is. Maybe Rio should have chucked his hat in the ring when the job was up for grabs.

When it isn't for footballing reasons, he has every right to speak up. He feels, like most of the rest of us, that he hasn't been chosen because his brother was racially abused by a perceived superior player. Racism is not something anyone should stay quiet about. Everyone should scream from the rooftops to make sure stuff like this can't happen. Some people don't take racism very seriously clearly, but those who do need to scream that bit louder to ensure stuff like this can't happen.

cgpg5

G.K. wrote: »

Britton's in his late 20's, just so you know. He's the guy I'd have taken.

What really? Just assumed he was young apologies.

G.K.

It was never between Rio and Kelly. It never should have been. Picking Rio here would have been ridiculous.

He should, however, have been in the squad in the first place.

Owen_S

I'm a Utd supporter, and I find it odd that Richards isn't in the squad ahead of Kelly. Surely he has done more to deserve a place?

monkey9

Hodgson should come out and clarify these 'footballing reasons' as right now, he's looking like a liar!!

Paul Tergat

Rio has every right to be pissed off.

Devilman40k

Owen_S wrote: »

I'm a Utd supporter, and I find it odd that Richards isn't in the squad ahead of Kelly. Surely he has done more to deserve a place?

Richards would be in the squad,but he refused to be on the standby list.

citytillidie

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Firstly John Terry is innocent until proven guilty. He has done nothing wrong (so far).

Secondly it seems like its Rio Ferdinand that has problem with JT and JT has no problem with RF. If RF has a problem or doesnt want to play with the currently innocent Terry then it should be RF that misses out. If Ferdinands issues with Terry could create bother in the squad over the euro's then Ferdinand shouldnt be at the Euro's

Im sure Hodgson has spoken to Ferdinand and didnt like what he had to say.

Remember John Terry is currently innocent

Gbear wrote: »

Given that he's innocent until proven guilty it very simply comes down to having to choose one over the other based on footballing ability if Hodgson has already decided that both can't be included.

If that's the case you could argue that Ferdinand is better but there's not much in it so taking Terry is perfectly reasonable.

I think Terry is a terrible person but until a court decides he's acted unlawfully you can't (or at least the manager can't) use that as a stick to beat him with.

If only a certain non English player got that backing of being innocent until proven guilty earlier in the season this place might not have gone to the dogs

Any ways Rio has come out of this looking sad, whining about not being picked, and it does smack of the old England where the press tried to pick the squad on names alone and kicking up a fuss when a big name is left out.

G.K.

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Rio has every right to be pissed off.

Disagree over this situation. He has no entitlement to be picked just because he's who he is. I doubt you'd find many who think he's a better RB than Kelly.

He has clearly been mistreated and dropped over the Terry situation when he should have been picked and over that, he has every right to be furious. I'd certainly expect him to be and wouldn't think down on him at all here.

Not being picked over Kelly because Hodgson wants a RB gives him no entitlement to be cross whatsoever, and his complaints are kind of pathetic.

citytillidie

Turtyturd wrote: »

I heard they are not going to play God Save the Queen but You'll Never Walk Alone now as the anthem.

CSF

citytillidie wrote: »

If only a certain non English player got that backing of being innocent until proven guilty earlier in the season this place might not have gone to the dogs

Any ways Rio has come out of this looking sad, whining about not being picked, and it does smack of the old England where the press tried to pick the squad on names alone and kicking up a fuss when a big name is left out.

Rio isn't complaining about not being picked, he is complaining about why, and he is right.

CSF

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree over this situation. He has no entitlement to be picked just because he's who he is. I doubt you'd find many who think he's a better RB than Kelly.

He has clearly been mistreated and dropped over the Terry situation when he should have been picked and over that, he has every right to be furious. I'd certainly expect him to be and wouldn't think down on him at all here.

Not being picked over Kelly because Hodgson wants a RB gives him no entitlement to be cross whatsoever, and his complaints are kind of pathetic.

No matter what position Ferdinand and Kelly played, Ferdinand wasn't getting picked. Which is why everyone who is complaining, is doing so. People need to start taking racism more seriously. It really is disgusting.

Paul Tergat

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree over this situation. He has no entitlement to be picked just because he's who he is. I doubt you'd find many who think he's a better RB than Kelly.

He has clearly been mistreated and dropped over the Terry situation when he should have been picked and over that, he has every right to be furious. I'd certainly expect him to be and wouldn't think down on him at all here.

Not being picked over Kelly because Hodgson wants a RB gives him no entitlement to be cross whatsoever, and his complaints are kind of pathetic.

Should have been clearer. Not just this instance.

It's clearly a lie that it was for footballing reasons and rightfully so the press are going to be on Hodgson for saying that. He is ****ed before he has even started the campaign!

edit: ive even lost track of what the squad is now

citytillidie

CSF wrote: »

Rio isn't complaining about not being picked, he is complaining about why, and he is right.

Really that statement from his representative smacks of him now crying about not being picked

Paul Tergat

citytillidie wrote: »

Really that statement from his representative smacks of him now crying about not being picked

The guy has had no chance of being called up to what would be his last chance to represent his country at a major tournament because of a lie - omission being on 'football reasons'. Every right to be annoyed

CSF

citytillidie wrote: »

Really that statement from his representative smacks of him now crying about not being picked

Because he isn't being picked because his brother was racially abused by one of Hodgson's most valued players. Not that hard to grasp.

titan18

Aye,he's a better defender than Jones who they're moving to CB with Kelly's call up, so the footballing reasons is total ****. There's no footballing reasons for why he's not been picked when you look at who's going

Paul Tergat

titan18 wrote: »

Aye,he's a better defender than Jones who they're moving to CB with Kelly's call up, so the footballing reasons is total ****. There's no footballing reasons for why he's not been picked when you look at who's going

Yeah I mean why not keep Jones as the RB cover and bring Rio as the CB to replace Cahill. Theyre just more excuses for not bringing Rio and for what reason? Footballing ones? GTFO Roy

the realpigiron

England are a joke. To let Capello go and then replace him with Hodgson is a joke. To favour Terry over Ferdinand in these circumstances is also a joke. England players don't perform on the big stage at the best of times because they are not pulling the money they get for turning out in the EPL. This sort of poisonous stuff will just make things worse for them.

cgpg5

titan18 wrote: »

Aye,he's a better defender than Jones who they're moving to CB with Kelly's call up, so the footballing reasons is total ****. There's no footballing reasons for why he's not been picked when you look at who's going

They aren't. If Johnson gets injured, Jones will be next in line. If Parker gets injured I'd imagine the same. The fact that Jones can play centre back helps but it is not now juts a case of Kelly being called up and Jones only playing centre back as a result.

cgpg5

the realpigiron wrote: »

England are a joke. To sack Capello and replace him with Hodgson is a joke. To favour Terry over Ferdinand in these circumstances is also a joke. England players don't perform on the big stage at the best of times because they are not pulling the money they get for turning out in the EPL. This sort of poisonous stuff will just make things worse for them.

Eh???

Paul Tergat

cgpg5 wrote: »

They aren't. If Johnson gets injured, Jones will be next in line. If Parker gets injured I'd imagine the same. The fact that Jones can play centre back helps but it is not now juts a case of Kelly being called up and Jones only playing centre back as a result.

In that case Roy made a mistake in the first place?

Glico Man

Paul Tergat wrote: »

edit: ive even lost track of what the squad is now

It's poor tbf... and it was no great shake when it was announced either

the realpigiron

cgpg5 wrote: »

Eh???

I meant replace him, well they didn't try very hard to get him to stay for this tournament did they?

monkey9

citytillidie wrote: »

Really that statement from his representative smacks of him now crying about not being picked

If this was a case of a player moaning about not being picked on the basis he's not good enough, then of course it would be arrogant etc.

But he's having a pop, not at the fact he wasn't chosen, but why he wasn't chosen and if i was Ferdinand, i'd be p!ssed off too.

Paul Tergat

aaronh007 wrote: »

It's poor tbf... and it was no great shake when it was announced either

Completely agree.

It was poor in the first place and with each replacement is bringing down the standard. Worst England squad I can remember us taking to a tournament

cgpg5

Paul Tergat wrote: »

In that case Roy made a mistake in the first place?

Having 5 centre backs (after Barry's withdrawal) was always a poor decision in my eyes.

Gbear

citytillidie wrote: »

I heard they are not going to play God Save the Queen but You'll Never Walk Alone now as the anthem.

I wonder which would be more offensive to non-Liverpool supporting Irish people?

CSF

To be honest, and I didn't at the time, but stuff like this can only make you feel sorry for Suarez. Shocking contrast in treatment between the 2.

Owen_S

Would these be the same 'footballing reasons' used to justify the inclusion of Downing in the squad?

The knives are sharpening for Hodgson already. Out of his depth again.

Lovely man though..

G.K.

Ferdinand was clearly not picked initally due to the issue with Terry. It's pathetic from Hodgson in my eyes, especially considering he claimed it was because Rio hadn't played much (Even though Gerrard had played no more for England than Ferdinand had and is captain). It's not a footballing reason, simple as.

Kelly being picked before Rio is 100% a football reason - Hodgson wants as few limited options as possible. With Rio, Jagielka, Terry, Jones and Lescott, you have 2 players who won't be playing and offer no real option except CB (Provided Cole/Baines are both fit). In international football with such limited squads you can't afford that, imo.

G.K.

rarnes1 wrote: »

The knives are sharpening for Hodgson already. Out of his depth again.

Lovely man though..

Hodgson's got his England tactics pretty much spot on. It's a pity he can't pick a squad/manage players as well as he can develop tactics.

Kristopherus

Big debate about this on SS News now.

Blatter

G.K. wrote: »

Ferdinand was clearly not picked initally due to the issue with Terry. It's pathetic from Hodgson in my eyes, especially considering he claimed it was because Rio hadn't played much (Even though Gerrard had played no more for England than Ferdinand had and is captain). It's not a footballing reason, simple as.

Kelly being picked before Rio is 100% a football reason - Hodgson wants as few limited options as possible. With Rio, Jagielka, Terry, Jones and Lescott, you have 2 players who won't be playing and offer no real option except CB (Provided Cole/Baines are both fit). In international football with such limited squads you can't afford that, imo.

But Kelly came in for Cahill, who was only ever going to play centre back. Surely it would have made sense to replace Cahill with another centre back?

Jones will still be second choice right back imo. If Johnson gets injured I can see him coming on and not Kelly. There's no need to have 3 options for right back in the squad.

citytillidie

the realpigiron wrote: »

England are a joke. To let Capello go and then replace him with Hodgson is a joke. To favour Terry over Ferdinand in these circumstances is also a joke. England players don't perform on the big stage at the best of times because they are not pulling the money they get for turning out in the EPL. This sort of poisonous stuff will just make things worse for them.

They did not let him go he resigned

cgpg5

Blatter wrote: »

But Kelly came in for Cahill, who was only ever going to play centre back. Surely it would have made sense to replace Cahill with another centre back?

Jones will still be second choice right back imo. If Johnson gets injured I can see him coming on and not Kelly. There's no need to have 3 options for right back in the squad.

Maybe he is worried for Parker's fitness. I'd imagine Jones will come in for him if he were to get injured meaning that more cover would be needed for RB. It's the only real reason I can see...

Blatter

cgpg5 wrote: »

Maybe he is worried for Parker's fitness. I'd imagine Jones will come in for him if he were to get injured meaning that more cover would be needed for RB. It's the only real reason I can see...

If he was worried about that then he should never have drafted Jagielka in and should have brought another midfielder instead.

But yeah, that's probably the excuse he'll give.

G.K.

Blatter wrote: »

But Kelly came in for Cahill, who was only ever going to play centre back. Surely it would have made sense to replace Cahill with another centre back?

No, because you'd then have the 5 CB's situation which I described. You simply can't afford to have too many options that can't be of use. Remember as well Jagielka came in for Barry.

Blatter wrote: »

Jones will still be second choice right back imo. If Johnson gets injured I can see him coming on and not Kelly. There's no need to have 3 options for right back in the squad.

Jones will now be a general purpose utility man I reckon. But having the more versatile Jones and Kelly is better than having a 4th choice CB (Probably Jagielka) who'll never play and can't offer anything.

greendom

Blatter wrote: »

But Kelly came in for Cahill, who was only ever going to play centre back. Surely it would have made sense to replace Cahill with another centre back?

Jones will still be second choice right back imo. If Johnson gets injured I can see him coming on and not Kelly. There's no need to have 3 options for right back in the squad.

Jagielka came in for Barry though. There's plenty of centre backs to go round. France only have 3 for example.

G.K.

England are the only side with 8 defenders.

MagicMarker

Basically Hodgson has no one to blame but himself in all of this.

eagle eye

Jagielka is a great option to have in the England squad. The guy is a top centreback and I think he has played every position at some stage in his career. He can play full back to a pretty decent standard and defensive midfield too.

I think Kelly is a good option at this stage. I have been very impressed by him when I've seen him play.

The reason Micah Richards is not being considered now is because he refused to go on the standby list.

G.K.

Jagielka's a decent keeper too.

Pighead

G.K. wrote: »

England are the only side with 8 defenders.

What about the Greeks and the Dutch? Don't they have eight defenders as well?

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

Jagielka is a great option to have in the England squad. The guy is a top centreback and I think he has played every position at some stage in his career. He can play full back to a pretty decent standard and defensive midfield too.

I think Kelly is a good option at this stage. I have been very impressed by him when I've seen him play.

The reason Micah Richards is not being considered now is because he refused to go on the standby list.

Yeah, amongst all this Ferdinand controversy, some people seem to be going on as if Kelly's a poor player. The bloke is a solid defender who probably won't even get any gametime anyway, but if he does he won't let anyone down.

G.K.

@Pighead: No. They both have a player who could deputise at full-back - Maniatis and Schaars, but they are both midfielders by trade.

eagle eye

G.K. wrote: »

Jagielka's a decent keeper too.

I remember the game where that happened. Warnock never had a substitute keeper when Paddy Kenny played for Sheffield United. And then he got injured during a game and Jagielka stepped in and played really well.