Continuing Hodgson/Ferdinand/Terry Controversy

monkey9

Beefy78 wrote: »

I think Liverpool's reaction did a lot to fuel the press associated with it. I also think that there's been a limit to what sort of details the press could go into whilst the CPS were looking into it and certainly since they decided to prosecute.

John Terry has been caught on camera saying the words 'black c*nt' at Anton Ferdinand, Terry is debating the context of those words. A picture of Suarez was printed on the back of newspapers with headlines that screamed 'RACIST' after a couple of suits decided he was 'probably' guilty with no proof whatsoever.

Who's gonna bet now that once Terry is found guilty, the FA will just say, "ah well, he got his fine. Nothing else to do here! Carry on as you were"

It's a joke that Ferdinand has been left out and i wouldn't be surprised in the least if Hodgson was told in the interview not to select him. The bloke is a yes man to the bitter end!!!

DB21

As far as Richards non-selection goes, I fully agree with his stance of going on holidays instead of waiting around on the reserve list. He should have been the second name on the team-sheet after Joe Hart.

Concerning Ferdinand, I can see both sides of the argument. Ferdy has years of experience and is a former captain. So for the invitation to not even be extended is pretty disrespectful. However, in light of the situation, Roy is in a tough spot, and it really is one or the other. However, he should have just said that, instead of bull****ting about "football reasons".

Turtyturd

CSF wrote: »

We don't have to talk like lawyers here. We've seen the video, we know he is guilty.

Good to know you speak for everyone. I agree Terry shouldn't be in the squad but I can understand why he is, it's not really that hard to see if you stop foaming at the mouth and look at it rationally. You might be better served typing a ranting email and sending it to the FA to release some of the frustration this situation appears to be causing you.

CSF

Turtyturd wrote: »

Good to know you speak for everyone. I agree Terry shouldn't be in the squad but I can understand why he is, it's not really that hard to see if you stop foaming at the mouth and look at it rationally. You might be better served typing a ranting email and sending it to the FA to release some of the frustration this situation appears to be causing you.

Anyone who has watched that video more than once, and cannot condemn John Terry as guilty needs a trip to their local optician/labotomist.

Turtyturd

CSF wrote: »

Anyone who has watched that video more than once, and cannot condemn John Terry as guilty needs a trip to their local optician/labotomist.

May well be the case but your opinion or that of anyone else not directly involved in the situation really means sweet f*ck all.

Hulk Hands

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jun/03/england-euro-2012-rio-ferdinand

Interesting article there regarding about Ferdinand and Richards. Also an interesting bit about Terry's defensive partner Lescott and the rest of the squad's attitude to Terry.

kryogen

Rio not being included, though laughable, is really not the issue for me at all. I am happy he will have the summer off personally, but to see the excuse of footballing reasons being doled out is simply an insult to anybody with a modicum of intelligence.

CSF

Turtyturd wrote: »

May well be the case but your opinion or that of anyone else not directly involved in the situation really means sweet f*ck all.

Are you actually making a point here or just being obtuse? Because I'm failing to grasp it, perhaps I need that trip to the labotomist.

monkey9

kryogen wrote: »

Rio not being included, though laughable, is really not the issue for me at all. I am happy he will have the summer off personally, but to see the excuse of footballing reasons being doled out is simply an insult to anybody with a modicum of intelligence.

Liverpool fans were ridiculed for wanting Hodgson out of our club! The tide is turning! The bloke is a weak, yes man!! I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hodgson's good mate Fergie told him to not bother selecting Ferdinand!! Hodgson would scrub Fergie's arse!!

OctavarIan

Harsh on Ferdinand, but at the end of the day it's only the England squad. Probably one of the most boring national teams to watch. His inclusion wouldn't have changed that.

Plus from a Utd perspective he gets more time off to be fresh for pre-season.

Mr Alan

The more I think about the comments from Ferdinand's camp this evening the more I think he has some ****ing nerve. He talks about a lack of respect & then throws a whopper spanner in the works for all his team mates who are over there preparing for this tournament & are now gonna be engulfed in a media circus over this. And that's without even mentioning how disrespectful it is to a young player in Martin Kelly who was likely over the moon at his call up but now must be dreading the circus he'll be involved in. Well played Rio.

kryogen

lol, yeah Rio Ferdinand is the one who is at fault in all this

Jesus Christ. I'm sure he is sorry it will have a slight impact on a great day for a Liverpool player Alan.

Some nerve my hole, the way he is going about venting is not ideal, but he is one of the most vocal footballers out there in terms of social networking and you have to take the good with the bad, in a backline with so many injury problems his experience alone would be an asset to the country in the tournament. The court case is not relating to him, he had intimated he was willing to have a working relationship with Terry, and to be perfectly honest, if one of them is to be left out due to Terry being a racist (allegedly) well, maybe it should have been Terry eh?

It is not a sleight on Kelly to think that Rio and Richards should both be well ahead in the pecking order. Smalling would be too if not for injury.

Lets pretend there is never a media circus around England too.

Beefy78

monkey9 wrote: »

Who's gonna bet now that once Terry is found guilty, the FA will just say, "ah well, he got his fine. Nothing else to do here! Carry on as you were"

I'll take that bet and I'll put a lot on it. If he's found guilty in Court, Terry will be charged by the FA and hit with a huge ban. The only reason why that hasn't happened before now is that they were not able to take action whilst the Police and CPS were doing so.

KH25

Whatever about Rio, Micah Richards should be in that squad. As much as you can bring up the Terry case etc Richards is fully deserving of a place in that team ahead of Kelly.

Beefy78

kryogen wrote: »

It is not a sleight on Kelly to think that Rio and Richards should both be well ahead in the pecking order. Smalling would be too if not for injury.
.

Richards is above Kelly in the pecking order.

KH25 wrote: »

Whatever about Rio, Micah Richards should be in that squad. As much as you can bring up the Terry case etc Richards is fully deserving of a place in that team ahead of Kelly.

And had he not thrown his toys out of the pram he'd have one.

Blatter

Beefy78 wrote: »

I'll take that bet and I'll put a lot on it. If he's found guilty in Court, Terry will be charged by the FA and hit with a huge ban. The only reason why that hasn't happened before now is that they were not able to take action whilst the Police and CPS were doing so.

If terry is found guilty, he won't serve a huge ban.

Suarez got 8 games, but the FA admitted that a huge factor in that punishment was the amount of times that they had found Suarez to have racially abused Evra (7 times in total).

At most Terry will be found to have racially abused Anton once. A 4 game ban would be fairly likely if he is found guilty imo.

Although saying that, the FA are known to pander to the media so it wouldn't surprise me if they gave him the same ban as Suarez to avoid the hassle.

Mr Alan

1) Richards isn't there of his own accord
2) He didn't 'tweet' his comments, in fact other than the "what reasons" tweet, he ain't said anything today-instead he went through his agent officially & whined about not being picked
3) The huge disrespect he is referring to is basically just him not being picked. Whatever about the rights or wrongs of it, to actually say that & thereby cause huge disruption to the England team a few days before the start of the tournament shows a sense of entitlement & arrogance that is a huge part of the problem in the England set up over the years.
4) This ain't a Liverpool/Utd thing, he is being equally disrespectful to Phil Jones who is the one who's actually taken that 4th choice CB spot.

Surely you can admit that the comments today are more "disrespectful" than anything he is accusing Hodgson or the FA of?

Hulk Hands

There would have been a circus over this regardless of a Rio reaction. It's very obvious from the 'what reasons?' tweet that Rio hasn't been contacted about this at all, even for the original squad announcement, which for an ex-captain is inexplicable in itself.

If Rio had been contacted at the time of the announcement and told the true reasons for his omission (terry etc) and been asked to play along, i'm sure he wouldve been decent enough and professional to do so. But he has only been given the same line as the rest of us, that it was footballing reasons. After Kelly's inclusion, it's 100% clear it's not for footballing reasons so you can understand how Rio's aggrieved.

Rio's a vocal player anyway, and would've been hounded on his opinion about his feelings on a back-up player from a mid-table side being called up before him. Might as well say his piece now and get it out of the way.

Mr Alan

Blatter wrote: »

Suarez got 8 games, but the FA admitted that a huge factor in that punishment was the amount of times that they had found Suarez to have racially abused Evra (7 times in total).

You sure about that? If my memory serves me right it was a 4 game ban for foul & abusive language doubled to 8 as he supposedly made reference to ethnicity/race.

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

1) Richards isn't there of his own accord
2) He didn't 'tweet' his comments, in fact other than the "what reasons" tweet, he ain't said anything today-instead he went through his agent officially & whined about not being picked
3) The huge disrespect he is referring to is basically just him not being picked. Whatever about the rights or wrongs of it, to actually say that & thereby cause huge disruption to the England team a few days before the start of the tournament shows a sense of entitlement & arrogance that is a huge part of the problem in the England set up over the years.
4) This ain't a Liverpool/Utd thing, he is being equally disrespectful to Phil Jones who is the one who's actually taken that 4th choice CB spot.

Surely you can admit that the comments today are more "disrespectful" than anything he is accusing Hodgson or the FA of?

Most of this is pretty irrelevant because Phil Jones, Martin Kelly and everyone else with half a brain will know that Rio Ferdinand has been left out of the squad for non footballing reasons.

Your point would be valid if that fact wasn't clear, but it is. It's crystal clear.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

The more I think about the comments from Ferdinand's camp this evening the more I think he has some ****ing nerve. He talks about a lack of respect & then throws a whopper spanner in the works for all his team mates who are over there preparing for this tournament & are now gonna be engulfed in a media circus over this. And that's without even mentioning how disrespectful it is to a young player in Martin Kelly who was likely over the moon at his call up but now must be dreading the circus he'll be involved in. Well played Rio.

Nah!! If Ferdinand was sh!t, fair enough!! If Beckham came out with this, fair enough!!!

But Ferdinand is giving out as to why he has been left out and the reason is that John Terry is on trial for racially abusing his brother!!

If i was Ferdinand, i'd be fuming!!!

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

You sure about that? If my memory serves me right it was a 4 game ban for foul & abusive language doubled to 8 as he supposedly made reference to ethnicity/race.

Certain of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16375963

In giving the reasons for the length of the ban, the report said: "Given the number of times that Mr Suarez used the word 'negro', his conduct is significantly more serious than a one-off use of a racially offensive term and amounts to an aggravating factor."

Beefy78

Blatter wrote: »

Most of this is pretty irrelevant because Phil Jones, Martin Kelly and everyone else with half a brain will know that Rio Ferdinand has been left out of the squad for non footballing reasons.

Your point would be valid if that fact wasn't clear, but it is. It's crystal clear.

If your two main centre-backs hate each other, that seems to me to certainly be a footballing reason to leave one out.

kryogen

Im pretty sure the disrespect is to do with how this has been handled, he has clearly not been spoken to by Hodgson to explain to him his reasons for not picking him, tbh with his caps and him being a former captain and considering the form he has shown it is terrible treatment. It is disrespectful imo

Richards is not, not there of his own accord, there is absolutely no "footballing reason" why he was not included in the initial squad, its a joke of decision, compounded by the manager not actually being arsed to ring him himself to let him know. Richards should have been there from the start. He wasnt picked.

monkey9

Beefy78 wrote: »

If your two main centre-backs hate each other, that seems to me to certainly be a footballing reason to leave one out.

Or Hodgson could grow a pair of balls and lay down the law to them and assert some sort of authority!! The bloke is a yes man!!

Mr Alan

While I reckon that's definitely a part of it, I think people are underestimating just how bad a manager Roy Hodgson is. He hates a ball playing defender. He's already quoted in training this week as telling the defenders they don't have to try passing & can use the striker as their out. He's the man who refused to play Danny Agger & nearly ran him out of the club. I don't think he'd have fancied Rio regardless.

kryogen

Beefy78 wrote: »

If your two main centre-backs hate each other, that seems to me to certainly be a footballing reason to leave one out.

Funnily enough Terry shouldn't actually be included in the two main centre backs picture, but thats for another time.

On point, whats Hodgson going to do now then, considering he will most likely have to start Terry and Lescott together, who if reports are to be believed, are not on speaking terms, apparently Lescott has been giving Terry the cold shoulder.

Should Roy send him home now for "footballing reasons"?

Also, as has been mentioned already, Ferdinand was willing to play with Terry.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

While I reckon that's definitely a part of it, I think people are underestimating just how bad a manager Roy Hodgson is. He hates a ball playing defender. He's already quoted in training this week as telling the defenders they don't have to try passing & can use the striker as their out. He's the man who refused to play Danny Agger & nearly ran him out of the club. I don't think he'd have fancied Rio regardless.

I agree with this to an extent. But if Terry didn't shout the words 'black c*nt' at Anton Ferdinand, Rio would be in Poland right now!!

Blatter

Beefy78 wrote: »

If your two main centre-backs hate each other, that seems to me to certainly be a footballing reason to leave one out.

Well it's an ''off the field'' reason. A ''footballing'' reason generally refers to the ability of the players in question.

I can understand that Hodgson was in a difficult position here, but Rio definitely deserves to feel aggrieved at being left out for the reason he has been.

Mr Alan

What I'm just looking forward to is Roys media dealings over this!

Going on previous experiences at Liverpool, I suspect he may handle it so badly he may be out of a job within weeks!

By the way, I agree Rio is right to feel aggrieved-I just think his comments today are retarded & disrespectful.

Hulk Hands

It's been a cock-up from Hodgson from the start. Rio's brother is racially abused so Rio is the one to miss out because of it. What's left is a media circus and a disfunctional squad with a number of players allegedly barely on speaking terms with Terry including his CB partner. No matter if Hodgson rates Terry higher than Rio (small difference at most), the only logical decision was to leave Terry out at the beginning.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

What I'm just looking forward to is Roys media dealings over this!

Going on previous experiences at Liverpool, I suspect he may handle it so badly he may be out of a job within weeks!

By the way, I agree Rio is right to feel aggrieved-I just think his comments today are retarded & disrespectful.

Roy's appointment seemed like a fall guy one to me when it happened, and I still expect it to be the case.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

What I'm just looking forward to is Roys media dealings over this!

Going on previous experiences at Liverpool, I suspect he may handle it so badly he may be out of a job within weeks!

By the way, I agree Rio is right to feel aggrieved-I just think his comments today are retarded & disrespectful.

I think we both know, this is gonna be hilarious!!!

Beefy78

kryogen wrote: »

Funnily enough Terry shouldn't actually be included in the two main centre backs picture, but thats for another time.

I don't think either of them should be nowadays (Jagielka & Lescott, for me), but historically they both were and probably would have been had 'the incident' not happened.

kryogen wrote: »

Also, as has been mentioned already, Ferdinand was willing to play with Terry.

I'm sure he would have been. 'Play with' isn't the issue though, it's the living on top of for a month in a small hotel which would likely have been.

monkey9

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's been a cock-up from Hodgson from the start. Rio's brother is racially abused so Rio is the one to miss out because of it. What's left is a media circus and a disfunctional squad with a number of players allegedly barely on speaking terms with Terry including his CB partner. No matter if Hodgson rates Terry higher than Rio (small difference at most), the only logical decision was to leave Terry out at the beginning.

It's what the Hodge does. But give him time, he was successful in Scandanavia, God forbid the England fans would go against a world class manager!!

Beefy78

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's been a cock-up from Hodgson from the start. Rio's brother is racially abused so Rio is the one to miss out because of it. What's left is a media circus and a disfunctional squad with a number of players allegedly barely on speaking terms with Terry including his CB partner. No matter if Hodgson rates Terry higher than Rio (small difference at most), the only logical decision was to leave Terry out at the beginning.

The logical decision was to take neither. Terry has too much baggage and Rio's own manager says he can't play three games in a week in a tournament.

Beefy78

monkey9 wrote: »

It's what the Hodge does. But give him time, he was successful in Scandanavia, God forbid the England fans would go against a world class manager!!

Just let him get on with it. Played two, won two in the friendlies, no expectations of us getting anywhere in the Summer. I get that a lot of you hold grudges over what happened at Liverpool but that has nothing to do with his new job.

kryogen

Beefy78 wrote: »

I don't think either of them should be nowadays (Jagielka & Lescott, for me), but historically they both were and probably would have been had 'the incident' not happened.



I'm sure he would have been. 'Play with' isn't the issue though, it's the living on top of for a month in a small hotel which would likely have been.

Small hotel?
Really?

Anyways, there are plenty of examples of players who dont get on in the same team, its nothing new. Had a laugh at one of the more famous ones earlier tonight, Cole set Sheringham up for a goal, Teddy didnt so much as look at Cole to acknowledge his part, funny how after all these years they still have issues, never impaired the team though.

And since Rio was willing to have a working relationship with him, in what would have almost certainly been his last tournament with England he has every right to feel aggreived here.

recylingbin

Rio should cry harder to earn a call up.

kryogen

recylingbin wrote: »

Rio should cry harder to earn a call up.

Haven't noticed you in a while, been enjoying life under your rock?

recylingbin

kryogen wrote: »

Haven't noticed you in a while, been enjoying life under your rock?

Frankie Boyle indahouse

monkey9

recylingbin wrote: »

Rio should cry harder to earn a call up.

Are you having a laugh??

Hodgson really needs to come out and explain the footballing reasons for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad!!!

kryogen

I prefer Billy Connolly tbh

Xavi6

recylingbin wrote: »

Rio should cry harder to earn a call up.

Or join Liverpool

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh??

Hodgson really needs to come out and explain the footballing reasons for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad!!!

He can't because he has none.

Mr Alan

monkey9 wrote: »

Hodgson really needs to come out and explain the footballing reasons for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad!!!

I despise Hodgson. But **** that **** mate. He's the manager, he doesn't need to explain every decision he makes or wants to make.

Rio may want to direct some of his animosity toward his own manager at Utd who told the England manager that Rio is unable to play consecutive games in quick succession. Somehow I doubt Rio will go down that route though.....

recylingbin

monkey9 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh??

Hodgson really needs to come out and explain the footballing reasons for leaving Ferdinand out of the squad!!!

OMG Hodgson should prostrate himself in front of Rio the clown and beg him to captain the side.
Hodgson is the manager and doen't want Ferdinand. End of story. F*ck off Rio, let's euro.

kryogen

Rio wouldnt have been needed to play 3 games in one week though.

It would be a silly argument anyway, why bring Rooney in that case? He is guaranteed to be missing the 2 matches before a ball has been kicked.

Also, he does not need to explain every decision, of course not. But he should have had the decency in him to explain this decision, in private, to Rio.

Can you at least accept that?

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

I despise Hodgson. But **** that **** mate. He's the manager, he doesn't need to explain every decision he makes or wants to make.

Rio may want to direct some of his animosity toward his own manager at Utd who told the England manager that Rio is unable to play consecutive games in quick succession. Somehow I doubt Rio will go down that route though.....

Of course he does!! He's the England manager!! He is on record as saying he left Rio Ferdinand out of the England squad for purely footballing reasons!!!! Nothing to do with John Terry shouting black c*nt at Ferdinand''s brother!!

Yet here he is, selecting other players, above Ferdinand!!! We all know what's going on here and Hodgson is being found already after his ridiculous first press conference!!

Beefy78

kryogen wrote: »

Rio wouldnt have been needed to play 3 games in one week though.

It would be a silly argument anyway, why bring Rooney in that case? He is guaranteed to be missing the 2 matches before a ball has been kicked.

Also, he does not need to explain every decision, of course not. But he should have had the decency in him to explain this decision, in private, to Rio.

Can you at least accept that?

Hodgson and Rio spoke on the phone the night before the squad was announced. After the call, Rio broke the story to a few journalists (I think United were playing up North that evening?) that he wasn't in the squad.

Rio wasn't on the standby list and so presumably wasn't expecting a call-up when Cahill was withdrawn.