Medical intern offers?

vamos77

Wow 16, still dont understand how they can tell already which individuals will keep the place they got without redoing the draw. Unless they got an attachment that nobody else picked. Didnt think there was that many places available...

sillymoo

vamos77 wrote: »

Wow 16, still dont understand how they can tell already which individuals will keep the place they got without redoing the draw. Unless they got an attachment that nobody else picked. Didnt think there was that many places available...

The emails were sent out according to your centile ranking - if you were near the top you got the email saying your job would not be changed. Everyone else got the one saying your position may be changed.

brumindub

foreverandever wrote: »

I appreciate the HSE has messed up and it is really inconvenient, there's no doubting that. But they are just ensuring that the right people get the right jobs which is the fairest way. The reason they're saying no non-eu will be affected is the number of people involved about is probably less than the amount of non-eu who have the jobs. I think how they've handled It is disgraceful but I can understand why they have to do it

so does this mean that even though i'm an irish med school graduate from the EU, i may not have a job because no non-eu is going to be affected?

actin

brumindub wrote: »

so does this mean that even though i'm an irish med school graduate from the EU, i may not have a job because no non-eu is going to be affected?

Not exactly.

I've learned indirectly (and off the record) from the IMO that several UK students were offered jobs who should not have been, and that a similar situation occured with non-EU students.

It's hard to say whether they are removing people from the matching process, adding people, or both. The HSE need to clarify this today.

kopci

foreverandever wrote: »

The reason they're saying no non-eu will be affected is the number of people involved about is probably less than the amount of non-eu who have the jobs. I think how they've handled It is disgraceful but I can understand why they have to do it

foreverandever, would you mind clarifying.... Did you mean to say that no EU will be affected (rather than 'no non-eu')? It makes sense that no EU would be affected (ie no EU will be left without a job) because the newly added EU candidates will simply bump a few of the non-EUs who got posts.

But if you really did mean to say that no non-EU will be affected, then I'm not sure...

foreverandever

Opps sorry for that typo, I meant to say no EU will be affected, from what I can gather. Because there's more than 16 non-EUs in the system and they can't have a job above an EU person.

sillymoo

foreverandever wrote: »

Opps sorry for that typo, I meant to say no EU will be affected, from what I can gather. Because there's more than 16 non-EUs in the system and they can't have a job above an EU person.

I don't think this can be right though. What I one of the new added EU people have a higher centile ranking than other EU candidates - they will bump down EU candidates too.

kopci

sillymoo wrote: »

I don't think this can be right though. What I one of the new added EU people have a higher centile ranking than other EU candidates - they will bump down EU candidates too.

Yes - but I think what they mean by 'affected' is 'left without a job at all'. Obviously many EU will be 'affected' in that they will lose their current allocations and get new ones, but they will not be 'affected' so badly as to not get any posting at all. In contrast, a few non-EU at the bottom of the list will lose their current post and not get a new one to replace it. So they will REALLY be affected!

opinion guy

actin wrote: »

I agree that the communication and handling has been awful, but I wouldn't stop there.

Apart from releasing intern offers several days late, waiting another three days before rescinding them is totally unacceptable. I know of several people who have signed leases or paid deposits on the back of job offers; offers received in writing, accepted in writing and confirmed in writing.

Now some of these people are left in an ambiguous situation with no certainty as to whether the HSE will honor the offers that have been accepted and confirmed. They don't know whether they'll have the same hospitals or even work in the same county as the offer they were given. This is a pretty big deal for people who have entered into leases based on locations in their current offers.

The calculated, callous manner in which the communication yesterday evening was delivered is totally unacceptable. No name or contact number was provided. The timing of the email was no doubt intended to allow minimal reproach. The ambiguity and timescale suggested (i.e. early next week) adds to the uncertainty faced by many. The fact that the specific causes of this situation were not disclosed betrays any suggestion of transparency in the system.

Those who have made accommodation arrangements should make the HSE aware that if they are forced to change arrangements and incur an expense, they will be consulting solicitor to recoup costs from the HSE.

actin

Just to clarify the situation as I've heard:

a) A few people were registered as non-EU when in fact they were EU students; therefore, they need to be placed with the EU students in the rankings

b) A number of UK students were included in the rankings despite not having results yet; they need to be taken out of the rankings

c) Some non-EU students were included in the ranking when they should not have been included at all (for whatever reason, not clear on this)

Therefore, everyone is affected apart from people with very good percentiles or people who choose preferences that had little demand going for them.

sillymoo

How the media have not gotten their teeth into this I don't know. As someone said earlier - if this was the CAO it would be all over the news.

robjones1981

sillymoo wrote: »

How the media have not gotten their teeth into this I don't know. As someone said earlier - if this was the CAO it would be all over the news.

Probably because of those affected no one has brought it to the attention to the media?

actin

robjones1981 wrote: »

Probably because of those affected no one has brought it to the attention to the media?

This is quite possible. I'd urge anyone with media connections to use them. There's a hashtag on Twitter at the moment, #interngate, for anyone who uses that service.

brumindub

Tue 19th by 5 then.

sillymoo

Email received from the IMO:

Dear Doctor,

As you may be aware there has been a significant errors in the HSE Intern Recruitment process. Letters of offer were issued and accepted. It has now come to light that offers were issued in error and on the basis of flawed data. New letters of offer will issue early next week. Five communications have issued to candidates in this regard. I have set out five categories below and each person should come under one of the headings.

Please note that we can only represent members.

Those of you who are not members can join through the IMO website or by ringing our membership department on 01-6767273,

Communication 1) to candidates who will fall out of the system

You were made an offer and accepted same. You should now have received a communication stating  “Unfortunately you were not ranked sufficiently high in the matching process to secure an offer in this round. However you are currently on the reserve list and positions may well become available if they are declined by other candidates”

 Those members who are in this group need to email their details to nchdissues@imo.le .  You will need to attach your letter of offer, acceptance and the communication received from the HSE withdrawing your offer.

Communication 2) Offer does not change

You were informed that there was an error in the recruitment process but that your offer will not change.

Communication 3) Offers may change

I would anticipate that you will have notification of your final offer early next week. I have asked the HSE to send notification of the date to all concerned. If there are significant changes to your post at this time we would be obliged if you would please contact us at nchdissues@imo.ie stating the changes to your offer, any loss incurred as a result of this change (e.g. deposit on accommodation).  

Communication 4) Not qualified,

You will have received a communication stating “It is evident from your application form that you will not have graduated on or before 9th July 2012 which in line with the eligibility criteria outlined in the Additional Campaign information makes you ineligible for these posts” I am aware that a number of applicants from the UK who received an offer have had it withdrawn on the basis that they are not graduating until July 19th and these people are included under this heading. Again we would ask that you send us your letter of offer, acceptance of offer, communication withdrawing the offer and any loss incurred as a result of relying on the offer. All details to go to nchdissues@imo.ie .

Communication 5) Reserves

You did not receive an offer. Unfortunately you were not ranked sufficiently high in the matching process to secure an offer in this round. You have been placed on the reserve list. Those candidates who have received this communication were not made an offer nor should they have received one. No loss has occurred. You are currently on the reserve list.

We have sought legal advice on this matter and as it stands it would appear that in the absence of consideration a contract has not come into being. However there was a legitimate expectation arising from the letter of offer and those members who relied on same to their detriment may be able to seek some form of compensation.

What we need now is to get an idea of the numbers involved and quantify any losses arising from the reliance on the original letter of offer. It is vital that all those affected contact us as outlined above.

Aside from the current issue there are a number of other pressing issues for Interns commencing work in July. The NCHD Living Out Allowance is currently being reviewed by the Department of Public Expenditure and the allowance is suspended pending the outcome of this review. The IMO would consider any withdrawal of allowances as a breach of the Croke Park Agreement and will consider all options up to and including Industrial Action to protect our member’s interests. We will be discussing  these and other issues at our intern information nights (Details can be found at http://www.imo.ie/news-media/events/intern-nights-2012/ ) and I would be obliged if you would please circulate this email to your colleagues who are not members also.

We will be issuing further communication on this matter next week and in the meantime should you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Val Moran

Senior Industrial Relations Executive

Irish Medical Organisation

10 Fitzwilliam Place

Dublin 2

actin

On RTE website now too:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0615/mistake-may-lead-to-hse-job-offers-being-rescinded.html

sillymoo

actin wrote: »

On RTE website now too:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0615/mistake-may-lead-to-hse-job-offers-being-rescinded.html

Pity they don't mention the poor people who are going to lose their job offers altogether.

actin

Does anyone know an EU student who was classed as non-EU? I need to get confirmation that this happened.

The reason I ask is I'm concerned that the spin they are putting on it suggests that people were included by mistake as opposed to omitted by mistake. It gives people false hope that they might receive a better offer than they did, as opposed to one further down their list.

Chiparus

GradMed wrote: »

Just received this, others in the class have gotten one saying their positions are unchanged.
This is just descending into farce.

Dear Candidate,

Further to the recent campaign for the allocation of Internships unfortunately a number of issues have been identified which impact on some of the positions offered. Following a thorough investigation all candidates are being reissued with their revised offers/ communication. Unfortunately it is possible that an incorrect post allocation offer was made to you which may be amended in line with the revised results.

I would anticipate that you will have notification of your final offer early next week.


Please be advised that due to the examination of offers all contract signing meetings and occupational health screening that has been scheduled has been postponed and relevant hospitals will be in contact with you in due course.

We will be in contact with you at the earliest possible date and you will be notified of this email communication by an alert text message where a mobile number was provided in your application.

On behalf of the HSE I wish to apologise most sincerely for the regrettable circumstances which have led to this review of the matching process. On behalf of the HSE, please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Yours sincerely,
National Recruitment Service

brewery, pissup??:rolleyes:

kopci

actin wrote: »

Does anyone know an EU student who was classed as non-EU? I need to get confirmation that this happened.

The reason I ask is I'm concerned that the spin they are putting on it suggests that people were included by mistake as opposed to omitted by mistake. It gives people false hope that they might receive a better offer than they did, as opposed to one further down their list.

Yes, curious about this too and whether you have had any responses?
In the message from the IMO, thanks to sillymoo, I noticed there is no communication #6 to the effect of: "You were erroneously not offered a post. It is expected that you will be offered a post based on the results of the revised match." But, on the other hand, I can see why the HSE would not send out such a message and would just wait until the new allocations are sent out.

Happy-Dog

actin wrote: »

Does anyone know an EU student who was classed as non-EU? I need to get confirmation that this happened.

The reason I ask is I'm concerned that the spin they are putting on it suggests that people were included by mistake as opposed to omitted by mistake. It gives people false hope that they might receive a better offer than they did, as opposed to one further down their list.

I know of one Irish student who was told that they had been classified as non EU but still offered a job, also another Irish student who was not given a job at all

94601

I wonder if anyone receive an email from HSE saying that they had been placed on the reserve list. I have not received any communication from anyone (including HSE). I called the HSE and was told that if I did not receive an offer email then I was not successful in the first round, however, they would not tell me if I was on the reserve list.

Piste

Just out of interest, which regions/specialities tend to be the most competitive?

Traumadoc

opinion guy wrote: »

Lol....consider this an induction program into HSE management practices

....don't worry...only the rest of your life to put up with it :P

You were warned.

david_defoe

Apart from the mess with allocations, has everyone been registered by IMC yet? I haven't...

GradMed

Piste wrote: »

Just out of interest, which regions/specialities tend to be the most competitive?

From the second HSE intern report, on last years information, the UCD network is the most competitive in the country. Don't think it went as far as to break down specialties.

The report may be found here
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/corporate/etr/Second%20Interim%20Implementation%20Report%20April%202012.pdf

GradMed

david_defoe wrote: »

Apart from the mess with allocations, has everyone been registered by IMC yet? I haven't...

If you ask the medical council they can tell you where you are on the list of applicants to be registered. 353 1 4983299 is the number for registration.

david_defoe

GradMed wrote: »

If you ask the medical council they can tell you where you are on the list of applicants to be registered. 353 1 4983299 is the number for registration.

Thank you but I just want to know whether I'm the only one not having received the number or not.

I also have one more problem, now that I think of it. Is there anyone doing their first trimester in Naas? I called them for an appointment to sign my contract but they asked for my CV instead and haven't replied yet...

GradMed

david_defoe wrote: »

Thank you but I just want to know whether I'm the only one not having received the number or not.

I also have one more problem, now that I think of it. Is there anyone doing their first trimester in Naas? I called them for an appointment to sign my contract but they asked for my CV instead and haven't replied yet...

I would have thought the vast majority of doctors applying to be registered would have been by now. From the classmates I've spoken to they all have.

I was under the impression that the intern coordinator would contact people regarding contracts. I'd say contract signing is being postponed for all new interns, even those that have been told their post won't change, until after the new round of offers on Tuesday.

kopci

david_defoe wrote: »

Thank you but I just want to know whether I'm the only one not having received the number or not.

Haven't received my reg number yet either. I tried calling (same number that Gradmed provided) on Friday just to make sure there were no problems but when you follow the instructions to reach the 'new registrations' section, it just sends you on a loop back to the original message and encourages you to see the website instead. I eventually gave up and hung up. I'll give it another few days. I'm assuming we don't need to be registered for induction, just for actual work starting July 9th.