Plane crash kills 153 people in Lagos, Nigeria

later12

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ixRG6zk4kjdkVsJgEeojYM1NTTVg?docId=CNG.fb66c40b353511ec1547eeb87d480453.b11

LAGOS — At least 153 people are feared dead after their plane plunged into a residential area in Nigeria's economic capital Lagos on Sunday, officials and residents said.
Thick smoke rose from the area near the Lagos airport and flames could be seen coming from the building. Residents said the plane had been coming in low, making a loud noise, when it slammed into the residential area.
Some residents said it appeared that the plane nose-dived into the neighbourhood.
Wreckage including a detached wing could be seen in the neighbourhood as the inferno burned. The cause of the crash was not immediately clear.
Hundreds of residents swarmed the area to see what had happened.
"It was a Dana (airline) flight out of (the capital) Abuja to Lagos with about 153 people on board," Nigeria's head of civil aviation Harold Demuren told AFP.
Asked if anyone likely survived the crash he said, "I don't believe there are any survivors."

Sorry about the thread title, this is actually a very sad story. Wonder was it an accident or a terrorist attack or what?

skinny90

later12 wrote: »

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ixRG6zk4kjdkVsJgEeojYM1NTTVg?docId=CNG.fb66c40b353511ec1547eeb87d480453.b11

LAGOS — At least 153 people are feared dead after their plane plunged into a residential area in Nigeria's economic capital Lagos on Sunday, officials and residents said.
Thick smoke rose from the area near the Lagos airport and flames could be seen coming from the building. Residents said the plane had been coming in low, making a loud noise, when it slammed into the residential area.
Some residents said it appeared that the plane nose-dived into the neighbourhood.
Wreckage including a detached wing could be seen in the neighbourhood as the inferno burned. The cause of the crash was not immediately clear.
Hundreds of residents swarmed the area to see what had happened.
"It was a Dana (airline) flight out of (the capital) Abuja to Lagos with about 153 people on board," Nigeria's head of civil aviation Harold Demuren told AFP.
Asked if anyone likely survived the crash he said, "I don't believe there are any survivors."

Sorry about the thread title, this is actually a very sad story. Wonder was it an accident or a terrorist attack or what?

Also a plain crashed into a bus whilst skidding off the run way in chad,I don't have a link but I'm sure you'll see it on the news

TeddyTedson

I knew this was coming!
I think it's time to ban and gradually fade planes out now, we are not supposed to be flying. Birds fly - humans drive!

rip

TeddyTedson

RIP to everyone who died too I guess.

Vicar in a tutu

later12 wrote: »

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ixRG6zk4kjdkVsJgEeojYM1NTTVg?docId=CNG.fb66c40b353511ec1547eeb87d480453.b11



Sorry about the thread title, this is actually a very sad story. Wonder was it an accident or a terrorist attack or what?

Really sad, one of my worst fears.. Condolences to the families affected:(

Hope O_o

Terrible tragedy rip and condolences...

Kylo Ren

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I knew this was coming!
I think it's time to ban and gradually fade planes out now, we are not supposed to be flying. Birds fly - humans drive!

Humans aren't meant to drive either really. And far more die in car crashes.

Sad, wonder what caused it?
I know that some airlines have been cutting back on costs and this could be because of a cost cut too far!

TeddyTedson

Michael O Leary I hope you're happy now:mad:

A quick look at wiki and this crash has halved the fleet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Air

krudler

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Michael O Leary I hope you're happy now:mad:

dafuq does he have to do with this?

TeddyTedson

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Michael O Leary I hope you're happy now:mad:

One thing you can NEVER accuse Ryanair of is cutting back on safety, they have one of the best safety records in the world!

Mint Sauce

Was there also reports of a cargo plane down somewhere in Africa, or did I totally mishear the RTE news this evening.

Vicar in a tutu

irish-stew wrote: »

Was there also reports of a cargo plane down somewhere in Africa, or did I totally mishear the RTE news this evening.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/10-die-in-ghana-plane-crash-554000.html

Vicar in a tutu

Hate Airplanes. HATE them!

getuponthis

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Michael O Leary I hope you're happy now:mad:

Some of the rubbish you come out with beggars belief! We're not meant to fly? And it's Michael o learys fault somehow for a plane crash in nigeria? Cop on

TeddyTedson

krudler wrote: »

dafuq does he have to do with this?

He's pricing them out of the market.
We're the ones who suffer, I'd rather pay a bit extra and not die I think...

Ryan Air are very safe in fairness to them yes, but if they ever do have a crash that's a lot of shares being sold.

Kylo Ren

Vicar in a tutu wrote: »

Hate Airplanes. HATE them!

Was talking to a 747 the other day and he said the feeling is mutual.

tayto lover

R.I.P.

That's why I don't fly.

Vicar in a tutu

Keno 92 wrote: »

Was talking to a 747 the other day and he said the feeling is mutual.

Wait till I get my hands on him :mad:

Pilotdude5

Accidents inevitably happen in this game....R.I.P. to the crew and Pax

Sunnyisland

http://www.google.ie/url?url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18316130&rct=j&sa=X&ei=UbPLT4v1DYmKhQeQ2_zTDw&ved=0CHEQgBAoADAA&q=bbc+news&usg=AFQjCNGksNfepzBU-PGM0-650H3Vkn4ILg

Nigeria, like many African countries, has a poor air safety record, though some efforts have been made to improve it since a spate of airline disasters in 2005.

Dana Air's website says it operates Boeing MD-83 planes to cities around Nigeria out of Murtala Muhammed Airport.


RIP.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Airline safety in Africa as a whole is shocking. A lot of the African airlines are banned from flying into the EU.

This wouldn't put me off flying though. Still exponentially safer than driving.

TeddyTedson

getuponthis wrote: »

Some of the rubbish you come out with beggars belief! We're not meant to fly? And it's Michael o learys fault somehow for a plane crash in nigeria? Cop on

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Vicar in a tutu

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Airline safety in Africa as a whole is shocking. A lot of the African airlines are banned from flying into the EU.

This wouldn't put me off flying though. Still exponentially safer than driving.

It may be safer than driving, but at least with driving you have a good chance of escaping with your life.

Defiler Of The Coffin

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

Michael O'Leary has nothing to do with this! A low-fares airline that routinely crashed would be soon out of business.

Biggins

A sad event - but maybe just as even sad is that such events will be pushed deeper into a newspaper so that reality stars and the Lohans of this world, can wear bugger all in effort to cleverly advertise their latest product across front pages.

I'd rather read more of the former than the latter in news but the masses must be kept fed with fodder!

As ever, my sympathy goes to those that have been taken away from their loved ones forever. RIP.

cml387

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Surely if an airline feels it is being "priced out of the market" and cuts back on safety, which you seem to imply, is that not the fault of the airline, not M O'L?

Defiler Of The Coffin

Vicar in a tutu wrote: »

It may be safer than driving, but at least with driving you have a good chance of escaping with your life.

Like in the event of a crash?

That's not very reassuring at all!

Vicar in a tutu

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Like in the event of a crash?

That's not very reassuring at all!

It wasnt meant to be;)

TeddyTedson

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Michael O'Leary has nothing to do with this! A low-fares airline that routinely crashed would be soon out of business.

Of course they are having an affect.
For example, years ago pilots were better trained.
A less experienced pilot might not have saved the day on the Hudson in America.

Sunnyisland

Teddy edson wrote: »

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Teddy T , There have been a spate of Aircraft crashes in Africa since 2005, imo it would be down to maintenance and upkeep of the airline industry there than any michael o'leary's

TeddyTedson

cml387 wrote: »

Surely if an airline feels it is being "priced out of the market" and cuts back on safety, which you seem to imply, is that not the fault of the airline, not M O'L?

Yes I see what you mean.
I withdraw that comment.
Withdraw!

getuponthis

TeddyTedson wrote: »

getuponthis wrote: »

Some of the rubbish you come out with beggars belief! We're not meant to fly? And it's Michael o learys fault somehow for a plane crash in nigeria? Cop on

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Sorry but you must be dillusional if you think you are right....

TeddyTedson

I'm very tired:o

TeddyTedson

n Air France jet that crashed into the Atlantic claiming 228 lives dropped 38,000 feet (11,600 metres) in three and a half minutes before slamming belly first into the ocean, according to investigators.French air accident experts published a chilling chronology of events that showed the three Air France pilots battling to regain control on flight 447 from Rio de Janeiro to Paris in a heavy thunderstorm on the morning of 1 June 2009.
Air France acknowledged that the disaster was triggered by faulty speed sensors, with one of the pilots exclaiming "we have no valid indications" as the Airbus A330 fell at 10,000ft a minute. Moments before the crash, one of the pilots, again unnamed, reportedly shouted "Je ne comprends rien" ("I don't understand a thing").
Air safety specialists have been baffled by the loss of AF447, but the causes have become clearer since its black boxes were discovered two and a half miles underwater this month.
According to the BEA, the French air accident investigation agency, one of the pilots called the cabin crew two hours and six minutes into the flight to tell them: "In two minutes we should enter an area where it'll move about a bit more than at the moment, you should watch out." Just over eight minutes later everyone on board was dead following a descent that, according to experts, none of the passengers would have noticed.
"The aeroplane probably felt more or less under control. The passengers probably would have felt their ears popping as it descended but the aircraft was held in a consistent pattern until it hit the sea," said Guy Gratton of Brunel University and a member of the Royal Aeronautical Society.
The report states that the experienced captain, Marc Dubois, 58, was resting when the Airbus began encountering difficulties, but had been present at a briefing with co-pilots David Robert, 37, and Pierre-Cedric Bonin, 32, shortly beforehand, when they discussed the turbulence ahead. The plane was flying towards a large storm system, a common obstacle on that route.
The pilot flying the plane at the time, who was not identified by the BEA, said: "The little bit of turbulence that you just saw […] we should find the same ahead."
Two hours and 10 minutes into the flight, the computers controlling the flight switched off the autopilot after becoming confused by conflicting speed readings, caused by the icing up of pitot tubes monitoring the plane's velocity.
"There was an inconsistency between the speeds displayed on the left side and the integrated standby instrument system (ISIS). This lasted for less than one minute," the BEA document said.
Unable to calculate speed because monitors were showing an impossible drop from 275 knots to 60 knots, one of the pilots appeared to make a fatal assumption that the plane was flying too fast and was in danger of breaching "coffin corner": the narrow aerodynamic envelope that keeps a plane flying at cruise altitude.
The 37-year-old co-pilot, Robert, then suggested the plane perform a slight turn to the left, which resulted in an increase in turbulence. Two minutes later the plane's serious difficulties became clear as the report describes a flight deck that would have sounded with scores of warning signals as AF447, buffeted by stormclouds and confused by contradictory speed readings, went out of control.
The autopilot disengaged and the pilot took over the controls. In the middle of the night over the Atlantic and buffeted by turbulence, he tried to lift up the plane's nose, in an apparent attempt to slow it down. The A330's stall warning sounded twice, signalling the aerodynamics were not generating enough lift and that AF447 was in danger of losing control, although its twin engines were working normally.
Experts said the pilot was receiving erroneous speed readings although one aviation source said he appeared to contravene standard procedure for a stall which is to pitch the nose down and increase engine thrust.
"You cannot call it pilot error because it may have been caused by reactions to data that was wrong," said Chris Yates, an aviation industry consultant.
At this point the co-pilot was heard saying "we've lost the speeds" and "alternate law", which signals the autopilot has been disengaged.
Seconds later the co-pilot decided to seek the help of Dubois and "tried several times to call the captain back" as another stall warning was issued. To add to the confusion, the speed readings returned to normal but the pilot kept the plane in a nose-up position, slowing it down and keeping the plane in a position where it was not generating enough lift.
By the time the Dubois appeared, just over a minute later, and as the plane began its fatal descent, another stall warning had been issued.
With the plane now rocking and falling at 10,000ft a minute, the pilot acknowledged the terrifying speed of the descent, saying "we're going to arrive at level 100", meaning 10,000ft.
At that point, just over a minute before the recordings stopped, the control sticks were used simultaneously, indicating the battle to control the plane had reached a frantic pitch. The pilot handed control to an unnamed colleague, presumed to be Dubois.
By now the "angle of attack", a critical indication of airflow over the wings, was at more than 35 degrees – nearly triple the outer limits for safe flight.
The BEA said the plane remained stalled throughout its three and a half minute descent, with the last recorded measurement showing the plane plummeting at 10,912ft per minute. Only 51 bodies were found in the immediate aftermath. Among the dead were five Britons and three young Irish doctors.
Air France said on Friday the investigators should be allowed to get on with their inquiry and said its thoughts were with the families of the victims.
In a statement the airline said: "It appears that the crew followed the evolving weather conditions and had changed their route, that the failure of the speed sensors is the initial event that caused the automatic pilot to fail and a loss of the associated flying tools, that the aircraft stalled at high altitude.
"It also appears that the commander on board quickly interrupted his rest to return to the cockpit. The crew fought right to the end to control the plane which is proof of their professionalism and Air France would like to pay its respects to them."
A pilot's analysis

You look at this as an A330 pilot and it's a case of there but for the grace of God. The first sign of trouble was the expectation of turbulence voiced by the first officer. He reduced the speed in anticipation to Mach 0.82, which is normal, and warned the crew. Shortly after entering the turbulence and associated ice, the autopilot disengaged and the first officer commented that the flight control computers had disconnected. This happened because the computers were no longer receiving speed information and neither were the pilots.
I cannot speculate why the pilot climbed the aircraft but it could have been due to confusion caused by the turbulence and sudden instrument failure. The controls at very high altitude are very sensitive and there is only a very small speed envelope, often called "coffin corner", where only a few knots of speed up or down can cause a stall.
So you are flying in this little window of a flight envelope which is perfectly normal and, indeed, you do it every day. But if you are suddenly handed control of an aircraft you can breathe on that little stick and the aircraft can go down one degree. In a very short space of time lost speed and stalled, causing it to fall from the sky. Despite what the pilots must have been going through in the cockpit, the pitch attitude remained fairly constant throughout so the passengers would not have sensed something was seriously wrong. They would have felt mild buffeting of the stalled airflow over the wings and the initial sinking feeling. That's all.
I feel a lot of empathy for the pilots. One could imagine suddenly suffering a total loss of airspeed indication in turbulence in the middle of the night and with all the autopilot systems suddenly failing. The indications, both visual and aural, would have been very confusing. The question for me is why did the instruments that are triple redundant, which means that there are three back-ups, all fail together?
Anonymous A330 pilot

God bless us

skinny90

TeddyTedson wrote: »

getuponthis wrote: »

Some of the rubbish you come out with beggars belief! We're not meant to fly? And it's Michael o learys fault somehow for a plane crash in nigeria? Cop on

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Well im not gonna say cop on but I will say I disagree with you. All airlines will have safety standards that have to covered either way otherwise legally they'd be screwed

The Big Red Button

tayto lover wrote: »

R.I.P.

That's why I don't fly.

Do you ever travel in a car?

Pedant

R.I.P.

I bet if this crash happened didn't happen in a poor non-white country it would have a lot more publicity. I only found out the other day that South Sudan was on the verge of war with Sudan, yet it takes up very little space in the news. Oddly, nobody seems to care about Africa.

Sunnyisland

Pedant wrote: »

R.I.P.

I bet if this crash happened didn't happen in a poor non-white country it would have a lot more publicity. I only found out the other day that South Sudan was on the verge of war with Sudan, yet it takes up very little space in the news. Oddly, nobody seems to care about Africa.

As we live in the western world its what is happening & effecting here that will make the news first and visa versa in Africa/Asia etc,But most newspapers & tv media have world news up on there websites and in there print,Just a matter of reading it.

Sunnyisland

Teddy edson wrote: »

God bless us

I read that report in the papers, while flying over the atlantic

TeddyTedson

realies wrote: »

I read that report in the papers, while flying over the atlantic

I loved flying as a child. I was even on a flight where there was a bit of panic and some people and youngsters were screaming and I was fine.
What changed me?:(

Sunnyisland

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I loved flying as a child. I was even on a flight where there was a bit of panic and some people and youngsters were screaming and I was fine.
What changed me?:(

Aftershock

Logical Fallacy

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm not saying it was his fault obviously, but the way he's pricing other airlines out of the market is indirectly having a negative affect for safety, arguably I guess but I think I'm genuinely right about this.

PS- Don't tell people to cop on or what to do, ever! It's the height of rudeness.
You can agree or disagree with me.

Teddy, you said in another post that Ryan Air are very safe.

So how is this particular low cost airline, who by your own admission can provide a safe service, affecting the safety records of other airlines?

IrishAm

TeddyTedson wrote: »

What changed me?:(

You were dropped on your head, soon after.

Repeatedly.

TeddyTedson

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Teddy, you said in another post that Ryan Air are very safe.

So how is this particular low cost airline, who by your own admission can provide a safe service, affecting the safety records of other airlines?

Sorry, just ignore me today. I'm actually quite sick and seeing things. So I probably am genuinely a little delusional.

tayto lover

chatterpillar wrote: »

Do you ever travel in a car?

I do and usually drive. I do feel safer than I did on the one and only time I flew.
I have a serious fear of flying but will have to do so in a few months time alas.

Auldloon

Having worked in aircraft engineering for over 20 years I can tell you teddy and others safety comes first each and every time. Have worked in lots of countries but not Africa so have no first hand experience of standards there but I have heard plenty of horror stories...
Stick with the likes of BA or any of the Irish airlines and you should be fine.

Pantsface

Pedant wrote: »

R.I.P.

I bet if this crash happened didn't happen in a poor non-white country it would have a lot more publicity. I only found out the other day that South Sudan was on the verge of war with Sudan, yet it takes up very little space in the news. Oddly, nobody seems to care about Africa.

True, you just become immune, which is dreadful

Logical Fallacy

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Sorry, just ignore me today. I'm actually quite sick and seeing things. So I probably am genuinely a little delusional.

lol, no worries Teddy.

I know you dislike the auld flying as well.