Fluke and Worm - Best complete treatment

patjack

Hi All, have a cow that got quite thin despite having been dosed for fluke and worm, Vet advised that it was liver fluke, so treated for such with Trodax and she's coming around. I had used one of the drenches and for the life of me I can't think of what it was, but basically Vet said what I used would kill 50% of the adult fluke only. Just wondering what do ye do for a complete fluke and worm treatment?

Farmer Pudsey

An ivermectin injection (bimectin, kilomectin etc) for worms and for fluke on finishing cattle I use trodax as it kills all fluke from about the 2 week stage, on store cattle I use Flukeiver injection to take the top off the fluke at mid autunm stage and I use it again at least 6 weeks after housing. I find this the most effective treatment.

1chippy

was told lately that if you give the cow baking soda five minutes before you give them an oral drench. This has something to do with rising any of the parasites prior to the dose working.

LostCovey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

An ivermectin injection

For a cow???????

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

kilomectin

There is no such drug, not even one with a name anywhere close to this - are you pulling our leg?

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

for fluke on finishing cattle I use trodax as it kills all fluke from about the 2 week stage

No it does NOT, even the people selling it don't claim that!

Trodax kills adult flukes, and a few late immatures (ones that are old enough to drink & vote).

People love to dish out the advice for other people's stock, it doesn't really matter if its accurate, it sounds fierce authoritative.

LostCovey

LostCovey

1chippy wrote: »

was told lately that if you give the cow baking soda five minutes before you give them an oral drench. This has something to do with rising any of the parasites prior to the dose working.

Another fairytale - who told you, and what were they basing it on? Go on!

Sorry to be critical of what I assume is well intended advice, but the content of these two replies is highly inaccurate and misleading.

whelan1

lc, in fairness the op didnt say if it was a suckler cow or a milker, we all know injectable flukicides can not be used in milking cows

Farmer Pudsey

LostCovey wrote: »

For a cow???????



There is no such drug, not even one with a name anywhere close to this - are you pulling our leg?



No it does NOT, even the people selling it don't claim that!

Trodax kills adult flukes, and a few late immatures (ones that are old enough to drink & vote).

People love to dish out the advice for other people's stock, it doesn't really matter if its accurate, it sounds fierce authoritative.

LostCovey

Did not know it was a milking cow and sorry it is kilomec have come accross it in one or two places it is a generic ivermectin costs 30euro/500m.

There is very little you can give milking cows even in the dry period as the withdrawal periods are so long. It is just a matter of going into a co-op and going through what they have even if you do not buy it there. The other choice is go onto Magent direct and go through the products and the IMB data sheets.

One thing isckens me is to go into a co-op ans see someone pay through the nose for 1/2 ton fertlizer, a couple bags of ration and ivermec super.

Trodax kills all fluke from the three/four week stage it is an excellent drug but it is expensive. When the op said he had one cow with fluke I presumed that fluke was not an issue normally on his farm to be honest I thaught it was a cull cow situtation

LostCovey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Did not know it was a milking cow and sorry it is kilomec have come accross it in one or two places it is a generic ivermectin costs 30euro/500m.

There is very little you can give milking cows even in the dry period as the withdrawal periods are so long. It is just a matter of going into a co-op and going through what they have even if you do not buy it there. The other choice is go onto Magent direct and go through the products and the IMB data sheets.

One thing isckens me is to go into a co-op ans see someone pay through the nose for 1/2 ton fertlizer, a couple bags of ration and ivermec super.

Trodax kills all fluke from the three/four week stage it is an excellent drug but it is expensive. When the op said he had one cow with fluke I presumed that fluke was not an issue normally on his farm to be honest I thaught it was a cull cow situtation

farmer pudsey, this could get very boring so I am not getting into an "yes it does - no it doesn't' pantomime with you.

Trodax kills adult flukes and late immatures. NOBODY, including Merial would advocate it as effective against 3-4 week old flukes.

Rather than arguing with you, I will quote a reference
http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmingtips/2009/sheep-20091103.asp

Tipp Man

Lost covey what fluke and worm treatment plan do you use and on what type of stock?

leoch

so should heifers that are only out on grass about 3 weeks(age 12/16 months)get there first dose with somethig for immature fluke

LostCovey

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lost covey what fluke and worm treatment plan do you use and on what type of stock?

I use a plan that is based on the ages of my cattle & sheep, their grazing pattern, and the minimisation of anthelmintic resistance.

It would be nonsense to try and apply it anywhere else.

Any parasite control plan needs to be customised to the farm and there's no point trying to do that over the internet.

I don't mind if people want to try (its probably pointless) but if it is based on highly inaccurate information like pudsey offers it is totally doomed.

Its not really that complicated, but in summary, I try to use the least amount of the cheapest wormer/flukicide that will deal with the parasites (and age of parasites in the case of fluke) my stock will face. I don't aim for 100% eradication, just control below the level that will impact production.

I don't always get it right, but it mostly works well

Even if I was qualified to advise you, I could not do a plan for you without knowing your system, and I would never presume to try. I never claimed to be an expert (remember that the definition of an expert is any fella who is more than 50 miles from home).

LostCovey

LostCovey

leoch wrote: »

so should heifers that are only out on grass about 3 weeks(age 12/16 months)get there first dose with somethig for immature fluke

Like I said above, there is no simple answer.

But in this case probably not, but every decision to dose is based on a a risk assessment.

Is there fluke on your farm?
Have you sheep?
Is the ground wet?
Is the year wet?
Was the winter mild?
Were the heifers exposed to fluke last year?

If you are talking about previously zero-grazed heifers from Holland going out onto wet land in Connaught after a very mild year, where undosed sheep from Connemara were grazed all all last autumn, then maybe.

LostCovey

All this is complicated by the diversity of "advice" and vested interests, and the huge range of products, production systems and the wide range of intensity and technical knowledge of individual farmers.

The parasite control section here is a good place to start:

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/page.php?id=4#Parasite

and this website gives good advice on slowing down wormer resistance:

http://www.scops.org.uk/

I know I come across as a cranky hurler on the ditch, but this stuff is not simple.

My main point is that it's really not possible to provide what the title of this thread would entail, and anybody who claims they can is instantly suspect in my book.

leoch

the land is heavy in places these heifers grazed it from last oct to jan then there was sheep on it till end march would the sheep make a difference to it

LostCovey

leoch wrote: »

the land is heavy in places these heifers grazed it from last oct to jan then there was sheep on it till end march would the sheep make a difference to it

I am not getting into a situation where I am offering you advice.

Heavy land to me just means a clay soil - for fluke you need wet conditions underfoot, which you can get in any soil type, where topography or geology results in poor drainage.

Undosed sheep infecting snails last autumn could mean a heavy fluke infestation on the pasture. A mild winter could mean most of them survived.

Still unlikely to be a big threat to cattle (compared to sheep), but impossible to offer you a definitive opinion.

Having said that, summer dosing for fluke is a good strategy to reduce the autumn challenge.

If it is a significant problem on your farm.

I know this isn't the simple answer you are looking for.

i do not believe that exists (but plenty will disagree with me).

Attie

LostCovey wrote: »

I am not getting into a situation where I am offering you advice.

Heavy land to me just means a clay soil - for fluke you need wet conditions underfoot, which you can get in any soil type, where topography or geology results in poor drainage.

Undosed sheep infecting snails last autumn could mean a heavy fluke infestation on the pasture. A mild winter could mean most of them survived.

Still unlikely to be a big threat to cattle (compared to sheep), but impossible to offer you a definitive opinion.

Having said that, summer dosing for fluke is a good strategy to reduce the autumn challenge.
If it is a significant problem on your farm.

I know this isn't the simple answer you are looking for.

i do not believe that exists (but plenty will disagree with me).

LostCovey
For what it's worth I'd agree.
When I kill stock I fallow them up the lime to gain as much info as possible this let's me know if my dosing regime is working I find I can plan my dosing according.
Attie

Farmer Pudsey

Lost covey

OP had a specfic question he had one animal( not 101) with fluke, to me a simple plonker it looked like that he did not have a general fluke issue maybe I was wrong to presume.

I myself have a dry farm and do not have a fluke issue during the summer however when I buy cattle in the fall alot have a fluke and worm challange.

Trodax is reccommended for 2-4 weeks after housing I use it of cattle that I finish

Flukiver is reccomended for 6 weeks after housing I use it at buy in on stores and again after housing at the 6-8 weekl stage

Ivermectin are for worms, lice, ticks and warables I use it at or 7-10 days prehousing

Mayne we should all give up giving advice and call the vet 10-20 time a year and let him charge us 50 euro/visit and through the nose for vetinary advice.
OP had an issue with one animal more than likely any fluke were mature so trodax is as good a solution if not the best unless it was a milking cow

Closmectin is a heap of sh#te in my opinion very expensive and norbrook are reccomendind it for 2 weeks post housing when the active ingrediant for fluke is closntal which is the active ingrediant in flukiver which is for 6-8 weeks post housing.

leg wax

gave up on the cheaper ivermectin products and back with ivomec super, and the reason ring worm ,i see some people on here talking about it,all the other products do not kill or stop it spreading,;).

LostCovey

leg wax wrote: »

gave up on the cheaper ivermectin products and back with ivomec super, and the reason ring worm ,i see some people on here talking about it,all the other products do not kill or stop it spreading,;).

No ivermectin product kills ringworm or stops it spreading, dear or cheap, nor do they claim to. And that definitely includes Ivomec Super, it has nothing to do with ringworm.

LostCovey

LostCovey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Maybe we should all give up giving advice

Hold that thought Pudsey.

LC

leg wax

LostCovey wrote: »

No ivermectin product kills ringworm or stops it spreading, dear or cheap, nor do they claim to. And that definitely includes Ivomec Super, it has nothing to do with ringworm.

LostCovey

i never said the product claims to kill ring worm ,but it does so please do not tell me otherwise .pk:D

LostCovey

leg wax wrote: »

i never said the product claims to kill ring worm ,but it does so please do not tell me otherwise .pk:D

If it did, it would sell tons of product, and they would claim it.

It doesn't, never did, can't possibly, contains no anti-fungal active ingredient.

Sorry to burst your bubble LegWax.

Just another myth, and one that I think that I have heard before in a pub.

Not true unfortunately.

LostCovey

leg wax

LostCovey wrote: »

If it did, it would sell tons of product, and they would claim it.

It doesn't, never did, can't possibly, contains no anti-fungal active ingredient.

Sorry to burst your bubble LegWax.

Just another myth, and one that I think that I have heard before in a pub.

Not true unfortunately.

LostCovey

i have no bubble dont worry lc and my calves have no ringworm thanks to ivomec super,and now i am going to hit the ignorant button sorry the ignore button

LostCovey

leg wax wrote: »

now i am going to hit the ignorant button

I don't have one of those.

Ignoring facts partly explains how you have ended up wasting money on Ivomec Super at €387 for a half litre.

It's either not working, or you are mixing up ringworm & lice, LegWax.

LostCovey

Tipp Man

LC how can you say Ivomec Super is a waste of money??

While it is expensive it is also 1 of the best products on the market

LostCovey

Tipp Man wrote: »

LC how can you say Ivomec Super is a waste of money??

While it is expensive it is also 1 of the best products on the market

I didn't - it is a wonderful product at killing worms and lice (fairly mediocre on the oul' fluke it has to be said, useless against biting lice).

I said it was a waste of money using it to prevent/treat ringworm, which LegWax was claiming.

That was all.

LC

Farmer Pudsey

Tipp Man wrote: »

LC how can you say Ivomec Super is a waste of money??

While it is expensive it is also 1 of the best products on the market

I have to agree with LC here Ivomec Super is only effective against adult Fluke it is the least effective fluke injectible treatment of all we have spoken about. Its worm treatment is the same as any other avermectin product. It is not any use against ringworm if your calves do not get ringworm it is because you do not have ringworm on the farm.

It is massively overpriced costing about 8 euros/500kg for worms and adult fluke, ivomec classic costs 4euro/500kgs for worms.

The generic forms of avermictin cost 55-60 cent/500kgs and flukiver costs 2 euros/500kgs and is a better fluke product and trodax cost 3.25/500kgs and is a better fluke product again.
LC
Super only kill mature fluke
Flukiver kills from 6-8 weeks depending on the type of fluke
Trodax is effective from earlier than flukiver from the 4-5 week stage

LostCovey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Flukiver kills from 6-8 weeks depending on the type of fluke
Trodax is effective from earlier than flukiver from the 4-5 week stage

Look, if I let this go, somebody might believe it.

Flukiver kills virtually all immature flukes from about 6 weeks on.

Trodax doesn't - it kills small numbers, and doen't achieve a 90%+ kill until the flukes are about 9-10 weeks old. This is widely known, and check that link I gave earlier if you don't believe me:

http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/fa...p-20091103.asp

NewBeefFarmer

as a new entrant.. . here's what i've learned

There's no one product that will do everything. .;)

and


some people will always shop in Tesco, others will be in Dunnes, and others will be in Aldi. . . . not to mention M&S.:pac:

LostCovey

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

as a new entrant.. . here's what i've learned

There's no one product that will do everything. .;)

and


some people will always shop in Tesco, others will be in Dunnes, and others will be in Aldi. . . . not to mention M&S.:pac:

I wouldn't mind that at all, personal preferences are part of life's rich tapestry.

What's going on here is much more like people advising you to put green diesel in a petrol car, or that if you put a spoon of salt in the fire you will never need to clean the chimney etc. Wormer selection has a stack of science behind it - it's not a matter of opinion, the trials have been done, and the results are in the public domain.

tim04750

Can anyone recommend a good product for ringworm

Farmer Pudsey

Biggest issue with any dosing is under dosing which allow resistance to develop. Alot of farmers/people have an idea that an expensive/branded product or else want one injection to do everything.

There are loads of avermectin products out there Quailmec/Kilomec/Bimectin/Animec the branded product is Ivomec Classic they are all exactly the same except in price.

These product have been tested to 3 times the dosage rate and found safe. If you gauge an animal to be 451kgs dose as 500kgs do not under dose.

It is exactly the same with fluke products.

Avermectins kill worms lice, sucking lice/mites and mange.

If you want to pay 6-7 time the price for a branded product by all means do and twice the price for a single injectible/pour on product that ok too.

It is like the customer's going into tesco who buy branded and unbranded milk at the end of the day they both come from the same cow.

Bodacious

tim04750 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a good product for ringworm

Imaverol wash is the only job rough up scabs first with a scrubber brush and soak them

red bull

For ringworm paint on burned oil on infected area, it does the job

tim04750

thanks folks, didnt have it round here for years but this is going to be like paintin' a shed with a toothbrush, sheeesh

whelan1

red bull wrote: »

For ringworm paint on burned oil on infected area, it does the job

apparently what ever was in the burned oil isnt in it anymore so doesnt work on the ringworm,this is according to my vet

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

apparently what ever was in the burned oil isnt in it anymore

Maybe it got burned?

Farmer Pudsey

whelan1 wrote: »

apparently what ever was in the burned oil isnt in it anymore so doesnt work on the ringworm,this is according to my vet

All the new oils are semi syntetic or syntetic maybe it is down to that.