Why is society...

del88

Well as i see it ,if you don't want to see the sh!t, don't look in the toilet....stop looking/reading/listening to mainstream media and go see some live bands or plays or art house films...learn to dance..go swim in your closest river ...hike up your nearest hill....YE GET THE IDEA....STOP BEING LAZY

Agricola

del88 wrote: »

Well as i see it ,if you don't want to see at sh!t don't look in the toilet....stop looking/reading/listening to mainstream media and go see some live bands or plays or art house films...learn to dance..go swim in your closest river ...hike up your nearest hill....YE GET THE IDEA....STOP BEING LAZY

We the people, reserve the right to be lazy as fúck and STILL not have to be subjected to the moronic drivel that is reality tv every night of the week on our TV screens.

del88

Agricola wrote: »

We the people, reserve the right to be lazy as fúck and STILL not have to be subjected to the moronic drivel that is reality tv every night of the week on our TV screens.

Change the £ecking channel

Capt'n Midnight

Abi wrote: »

Money is only made out of it because there are people stupid enough to watch it.

Money is a huge part

the stuff is just so quick and cheap to make

who needs script and actors and quality when the advertisers will pay you just as much for pointing a camera at muppets in a box

guitarzero

del88 wrote: »

Change the £ecking channel

NO! NO! F*CKING NO BRO! ITS A F*CKING WAR ON STUPIDITY BEFORE IT INFILTRATES AND SEEPS INTO EVER FACET OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE! TIME TO WEED OUT THE WEAK MINDED AND THE INANE AND SPEED THIS SLOW TRAIN UP! YOUR APATHY AND MEEKNESS IS A STAIN IN THE FACE OF PROGRESS! ITS A WAR THAT NO ONE DARES SPEAK OUT AT FOR BEING TAGGED CYNICAL AND CRITICAL AND OTHER TERMS THAT MOCK INTELLIGENT DISCERNMENT!

*fixes tie

TeddyTedson

guitarzero wrote: »

I've often wanted to make a post similar to this but didnt bother as I'd probably have been cut down.

I think 90 percent of people I have met are cosy within the box - whatever film/song/match/team/show/clothes/conversation style/liberal-conservative attitude/countries visited/even thoughts/drinks/food/music is all the rage, they'll soak it up regardless how dumb and rehashed it is. Very few people have a unique discernment process. The fact people become so uncomfortable and uneasy with others who have a different stance on many of the tags above shows how lame people in general truly are.

Then theres about 9 percent who actually have something interesting to say or do and theres the other percent who are in the halls of fame.

We have been dumbed down for a long time because introspection is seen as something odd and shameful. Schools do not encourage thought but instead inhibit it through function itself, nor does tv so we are depending on folks who have a disposition for thought.

I didnt really care about the Eurovision but when we threw Jedward up there it kinda mirrored a people who are willing to be seen as infantile idiots, a trend that seems to be fairly on course today among my generation. Its very much the same with a lot of tv and film, its target would have been seen as something for kiddies 30 years ago but now folks in there 30's and 40's are going around talking like teens.

The reality is we have been mammy'd from the git go - school, secondary, college, work, politicians, parents, all of which abdicate a sense of responsibility and a broadening of ones perspective.

Rant over.

Well said

The Eurovision is an idiot fest of the highest order though so I wouldn't offend anyone decent by asking them to enter.

Fussy Eater

Cool stuff wouldn't be cool if most people liked it....

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to spite all the begrudgerers out there, i hope they keep re-inventing themselves and remain entertaining for decades

What acts do you dislike? Because by your definition, you begrudge them.

There are plenty of acts out there that i dislike. I respect the rights of others to be entertained by them though.
I would never begrudge anyone the right to be famous - we all have our right to that 15mins lol.
I am a jedward fan though. They can't sing, their dancing is sh1te but they are hugely entertaining and funny guys.

Stacey.

Excuse you, Jedward are flawless.

dark crystal

I've never gotten this whole 'people who watch x, y or z are stupid' argument at all.

Surely the same people who slag off other people's intelligence for watching certain shows watch dumb shows themselves sometimes... I mean, I know a guy who takes great pleasure in insulting others for watching 'fake' reality shows, who likes nothing better than watching wrestling of a weekend. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Variety shows have been around as long as television has - it's nothing new. Whereas before people watched Opportunity Knocks, New Faces or Star Search, now it's Britain's Got Talent, The Voice and X-Factor.

If you don't like watching it, turn over to something you do enjoy watching. Or read a book instead.....

Dudess

Deleted User wrote: »

There are plenty of acts out there that i dislike. I respect the rights of others to be entertained by them though.
I would never begrudge anyone the right to be famous - we all have our right to that 15mins lol.
I am a jedward fan though. They can't sing, their dancing is sh1te but they are hugely entertaining and funny guys.

So you acknowledge they're shyte. People are entitled to express this opinion without being told they're "begrudgers". Not everyone wants to jump on the "I will say I like Jedward just to show how openminded I am" bandwagon.

Johro

Shu-up..

shopaholic01

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah Jedward belong on CBeebies or whatever, but they're somehow infiltrating adult TV.
Women in their 30s are swooning over One Direction (babyfaced teen boys) - it seems like a bandwagon tbh.

I just don't get that - they're not even good looking and one of them looks prepubescent.

StupidLikeAFox

'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so ****ing what?' —Stephen Fry

Listen to Stephen Fry. I find the fact that people get offended by this this more unbelievable than the people who like it. What is it with some people that they cant just say "Hey, I don't like this, but a lot of people do and its very successful. Now I think I will go listen to Led Zeppelin or Rolling Stones or whatever I like". Nope, instead it has to be some long ridiculous opinion about how the fall of society is coming or its a mind control tool to dumb down the masses. Its frigging TV, so ****ing what?

grindle

ColHol wrote: »

Listen to Stephen Fry.

That quote works both ways. Stop being offended by people's vitriol.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

That quote works both ways. Stop being offended by people's vitriol.

Maybe Stephen Fry should heed his advice and stop being offended by people being offended.

But really, its necessary to point these things out even being somewhat hypocritical in doing it.

Kinda sad in itself that people revel in the fact they watch more intelligent tv shows too when its not exactly documentaries on quantum mechanics that make up the bulk of what they watch. 90% of whats on is rubbish and nobody will agree on what constitutes the good 10%. So how in the hell can you class someone as an idiot based on what they watch ?

CommanderC

If its something you don't like then stop putting the spotlight on it. Stop acknowledging it existence. My mind boggles at the number of people hanging out in the Reality TV forum, just to post things like...."What utter tripe" :rolleyes:

Naomi00

The Only Way is Essex/Made in Chelsea etc crap is the worst. I never watch anything like that but what's really annoying is that they are on other things like 8 Out 10 Cats and other comedy shows and ruin them

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

90% of whats on is rubbish and nobody will agree on what constitutes the good 10%.

It's easy to see what the worst 70% of TV is though (number approximated using the formula: 70%=X pulled out of Y).
It's the kind of stuff people defend by saying "I know it's shit, but...", a la "I'm not a racist, but..."

LordSmeg wrote:

So how in the hell can you class someone as an idiot based on what they watch ?

You can't, but you do have another piece of the puzzle that is their mind.
Should we not judge people based on what they value?
If somebody has a 'Likes' list that goes:

Dan Brown (all d buks, I luv em!)
Jersey Shore (Puali D iz sooooo cute!)
LMFAO (der music is so cul! Reely buzn lyk!)

...well, I won't say that they can't be academically bright, but...
...I mean, statistically, it's possible, but...

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

You can't, but you do have another piece of the puzzle that is their mind.
Should we not judge people based on what they value?
If somebody has a 'Likes' list that goes:

Dan Brown (all d buks, I luv em!)
Jersey Shore (Puali D iz sooooo cute!)
LMFAO (der music is so cul! Reely buzn lyk!)

...well, I won't say that they can't be academically bright, but...
...I mean, statistically, it's possible, but...

You cant judge them solely on what TV programs they value, if you did then there would be very few intelligent people in your eyes. I know plenty of people that I'd considering intelligent, well educated, well spoken people who enjoy watching those programs.

You dont know these people or what else they do. Your basing your entire view of them on the fact they watch what you consider to be crap programs, or listen to crap music. Thats not a reflection on them at all, just a reflection on your opinion of them.

I think your just looking down on those who dont enjoy what you enjoy. Because you think they cannot understand as well as you, refusing to believe they are just as capable of understanding what you understand but they choose to watch what interests them instead.

weemcd

We are experiencing slipping standards of education, and I mean drastically slipping. Yet test scores always improve year after year. Spoilt stupid brats who crave the lives of "ordinary" (vacuous) people who live luxury lifestyles and spill their scripted lives on camera, all day every day. The generations are brought up completely self entitled, they don't live in the world the rest of us are in unfortunately. I know I sound like an old man, I don't care.

Have you talked to a young wan recently, say below the age of 17/18? jesus.

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

I think your just looking down on those who dont enjoy what you enjoy. Because you think they cannot understand as well as you, refusing to believe they are just as capable of understanding what you understand but they choose to watch what interests them instead.

You're making the same basic (educated, as-you-go) assumptions that I'm making.
I'm not saying I wholeheartedly stand by initial judgements and refuse to acknowledge people who enjoy what I don't like, but I'd pester an intelligent friend with "Why?"s and "How?"s if they said they liked muck.
Shouldn't everybody be able to justify their choices, and not just say "Oh I know, it's abysmal, but..."?
If they can't, that reads as the definition of either stupidity or denial, no?
I'm not trying to look down on anyone, I just want a genuine justification for liking stupid things.
"Soft and fuzzy for bwain-bwain! Me bwain need no think!" seems to be the usual answer.

LizT

grindle wrote: »

You're making the same basic (educated, as-you-go) assumptions that I'm making.
I'm not saying I wholeheartedly stand by initial judgements and refuse to acknowledge people who enjoy what I don't like, but I'd pester an intelligent friend with "Why?"s and "How?"s if they said they liked muck.
Shouldn't everybody be able to justify their choices, and not just say "Oh I know, it's abysmal, but..."?
If they can't, that reads as the definition of either stupidity or denial, no?
I'm not trying to look down on anyone, I just want a genuine justification for liking stupid things.
"Soft and fuzzy for bwain-bwain! Me bwain need no think!" seems to be the usual answer.

I would consider myself a fairly well educated person and I really enjoy a lot of reality TV programmes. In fact, I have over 1500 posts in the reality TV forum. I don't think what you watch should define you as a person.

What justification does a person need to give other than "I enjoy it"?

Lawrence1895

Being obsessed with a fool draws away the attention from someone's own stupidity

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

You're making the same basic (educated, as-you-go) assumptions that I'm making.
I'm not saying I wholeheartedly stand by initial judgements and refuse to acknowledge people who enjoy what I don't like, but I'd pester an intelligent friend with "Why?"s and "How?"s if they said they liked muck.
Shouldn't everybody be able to justify their choices, and not just say "Oh I know, it's abysmal, but..."?
If they can't, that reads as the definition of either stupidity or denial, no?
I'm not trying to look down on anyone, I just want a genuine justification for liking stupid things.
"Soft and fuzzy for bwain-bwain! Me bwain need no think!" seems to be the usual answer.

You want others to justify their interests to you because you think them stupid and refuse to view those people as intelligent unless they do so ? And you think your not looking down on anyone ?

Justification for watching it would be the same as you'd use to justify what you watch. You honestly think people should have to or are incapable of justifying their own personal interests ? Easy to relate to, dramatic, entertaining, features a lot of popular music, regularly has popular artists taking part, good format..etc etc. Same as any show anyone watches. Why do I watch QI ? There's comedians on it I like, good format, interesting content, makes me laugh.

Who made you the benchmark for intelligence anyway ??

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

Justification for watching it would be the same as you'd use to justify what you watch. You honestly think people should have to or are incapable of justifying their own personal interests ? Easy to relate to, dramatic, entertaining, features a lot of popular music, regularly has popular artists taking part, good format..etc etc. Same as any show anyone watches. Why do I watch QI ? There's comedians on it I like, good format, interesting content, makes me laugh.

Who made you the benchmark for intelligence anyway ??

I'm definitely not the benchmark.
Plus, you just justified. You're capable of it.
Now I'd like the people who watch crap (that they regularly admit is crap) to justify their choice.
Not because I'm the arbiter of intelligence, but because people should be able analyse and explain why and how they like or do something.
I'd consider that ability one of the main differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.
Coherent thought? Reasoning? Ability to communicate complex (not even complex, though) ideas to others of their species?

lizt wrote: »

What justification does a person need to give other than "I enjoy it"?

No other justification if they just want the interested party to go "Oh, okay then..."
*tumbleweed*
Other justifications needed if they want an actual conversation about it.
I liked Big Brother (until it became overwhelmed by fame-whores) - I like the thought of pressure-cooking different beliefs and ideas, letting all of those people try to justify to other people, or themselves, their actions or ideals.
It helps us to understand, empathise with, critique, humans in general.
Surely if they can do it in the BB house (and the people that can't are inevitably not taken seriously by the show's fans), people can do it about BB, other shows, and other art-forms, like I just did?
It's not hard to see why 'Survivor' is a good show, but 'I'm A Celebrity...' isn't, even though they seem similar to a non-watcher.
One's a devious social experiment in Darwinism and group-think, the other is sadistic froth, but cutely presented. IMHO.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

I'm definitely not the benchmark.
Plus, you just justified. You're capable of it.
Now I'd like the people who watch crap (that they regularly admit is crap) to justify their choice.
Not because I'm the arbiter of intelligence, but because people should be able analyse and explain why and how they like or do something.
I'd consider that ability one of the main differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.
Coherent thought? Reasoning? Ability to communicate complex (not even complex, though) ideas to others of their species?

I didnt really justify it I just explained some of the attractions of it. I personally dont think it has to be justified because everyone is entitled to their own opinions or tastes, I wouldnt take too kindly to someone telling me my favourite writer was shít and demanding I justify reading that crap. Even if I knew a book was shít I'd still be compelled to finish it and I'd explain that with a simple "might as well, nothing better to do".

First thing on my mind if someone did say it was shít though and implied I was thick wouldnt be "I better explain myself" it would be "I'll read whatever the hell I want". I'm sure if you engaged in a discussion about the reasons for liking any particular programs fans of those programs would explain which parts of it they enjoy and why.

Why do you think they are incapable of explaining why they like it though more so than fans of any other program ? And have you never liked something without stopping to think why you like it ?. If I asked why do you like toast (presuming you do) would you not think it acceptable to shrug and say "just do" ?

Not everyone is interested in that level of discussion about something either, I doubt many people regularly discuss comedy to that level because it just detract from it. Its funny, makes me laugh, I enjoy it is all thats needed there. Should be the same for anything.

Fussy Eater

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. Or is it?

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint"

- Hesiod, 8th century BC

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

IWhy do you think they are incapable of explaining why they like it though more so than fans of any other program ? And have you never liked something without stopping to think why you like it ?. If I asked why do you like toast (presuming you do) would you not think it acceptable to shrug and say "just do" ?

I don't think they're incapable, I've just experienced a lack of thought.
If I meet someone who justifies it, I'll have experienced a presence of thought.
If someone asked me why I liked toast, I'd say "MMMM, YUM - smokey, crispy, good base for buttery-cheesy-ness, or jam!"
If I said I didn't like toast, I'd expect (and have gotten for pretty much every food I've ever said I haven't liked, in work) "WHAT? Why not?"
And I'd answer.
I wouldn't be all "Oh, who do you think you are man? I don't have to answer to YOU! Who do you think you are, the ultimate food judge or something?"

LordSmeg wrote: »

Not everyone is interested in that level of discussion about something either, I doubt many people regularly discuss comedy to that level because it just detract from it. Its funny, makes me laugh, I enjoy it is all thats needed there. Should be the same for anything.

I disagree. Simple.
Even that emboldened statement should, in my mind, be justified. Otherwise it's just an assertion with no foundation, no appearance of thought.
Why should anybody who thinks they don't have to justify anything get any - never mind equal - respect to those are willing to justify their thoughts, etc?
Imagine you're doing a job for your boss and you do something he or a team-mate doesn't understand.
Either one asks "Why're you doing that?", you'd say "I just am. So there."?

The Master of Disaster

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so."

- Bertrand Russell

It's a simple as that, thinking requires an effort that a lot of people are just too lazy to put into things these days. Why read an intelligent book/watch a well-informed or questioning documentary or do any other activity that requires you to use your brain when you can sit on the couch and be spoon fed BS that allows you to disengage your mind. The likes of Geordie Shore/Jedward/X-Factor etc. pander to the lowest common denominator. Of course some people enjoy them for that trash factor, a sort of guilty indulgence, but understand exactly what the studios and producers are up to. But I reckon the other 99% of people who love these shows don't understand just how the joke's on them.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

I disagree. Simple.
Even that emboldened statement should, in my mind, be justified. Otherwise it's just an assertion with no foundation, no appearance of thought.
Why should anybody who thinks they don't have to justify anything get any - never mind equal - respect to those are willing to justify their thoughts, etc?
Imagine you're doing a job for your boss and you do something he or a team-mate doesn't understand.
Either one asks "Why're you doing that?", you'd say "I just am. So there."?

The boss/team mate things doesnt apply. We are not talking about actions that affect other people we are talking about personal preference. Your saying everyone should have to justify everything they think and feel to everyone else lest they be classed as stupid.

It certainly makes a point valid if one was to explain the reasoning behind it but people dont think so deeply on everything they do or feel. You cannot expect others to have to justify themselves to you or call them stupid and assume they cannot if they dont.

If I went upto someone on the street and asked him why he wears brown shoes should I expect a detailed answer ? Can I assume he is thick if I dont get one ? No I cant, the fact he likes brown shoes is justification enough to wear them. His intelligence should not be in question if he fails to explain why he likes brown shoes.

So whats your justification for that opinion ? Why does it have to be justified ? Why can you call someone stupid for not justifying themselves to you ? What justification do you have to class these shows as shít ?

We aint robots man, irrationality on the small details, assumptions, memories, feelings and opinions based on a lot of different factors (some of which may be subconscious) all affect personal preference. It mgiht need to be explained for someone to understand it but it doesnt have to be justified.

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

So whats your justification for that opinion? Why does it have to be justified? Why can you call someone stupid for not justifying themselves to you? What justification do you have to class these shows as shít?

He thinks brown shoes suit him, they may match his clothes, his hair, his eyes, his skin tone, etc.
They may not, and that person might not care.
Usually those people will go "I just don't care."
That's fine.
If someone wants to say that about the TV, books, music, or anything they like, they can.
I can, implicitly, from their non-caring attitude, especially if it applies to everything they talk about, write their future opinions about subjects they don't care about off.

LordSmeg wrote:

We aint robots man, irrationality on the small details, assumptions, memories, feelings and opinions based on a lot of different factors (some of which may be subconscious) all affect personal preference. It mgiht need to be explained for someone to understand it but it doesnt have to be justified.

If they want their opinion respected, it does.
You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

Them: "Oh hey, you should watch this show!"
Me:"You, who likes a litany of dirge, recommending a show? Why should I watch this show? Why should I believe it won't be awful?"
Them: "Just, y'know, because. Because I like it."
Me: "Why?"
Them: "Because I do. That's the why."
Me: "Oh, okay, cool. Piss. Off."

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

He thinks brown shoes suit him, they may match his clothes, his hair, his eyes, his skin tone, etc.

How does it suit him ? Why does brown go well with clothes those particular ? Explain why certain colours compliment each other. Most people pick their clothes as "looks good" without a degree in fashion (if there is such a thing) to enable them to explain why right down the smallest detail. Why is it justifiable to say "matches my eyes" but not to know why exactly this is the case. ?

They may not, and that person might not care.
Usually those people will go "I just don't care."
That's fine.
If someone wants to say that about the TV, books, music, or anything they like, they can.
I can, implicitly, from their non-caring attitude, especially if it applies to everything they talk about, write their future opinions about subjects they don't care about off.

But your trying to drag the opinion out of them by quizzing them about why they like something in order to not see them as stupid. Their personal preference really has no bearing on you. So why do you seek it out to question it ?

If they want their opinion respected, it does.
You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

Them: "Oh hey, you should watch this show!"
Me:"You, who likes a litany of dirge, recommending a show? Why should I watch this show? Why should I believe it won't be awful?"
Them: "Just, y'know, because. Because I like it."
Me: "Why?"
Them: "Because I do. That's the why."
Me: "Oh, okay, cool. Piss. Off."

I'm a small bit confused. You're calling other people stupid for watching a show .This is because they cannot explain why they like a show you think is crap (because they have to justify it to you). If they cannot justify it by explaining the logic and reason behind their opinion they are the idiots you assumed they were. If they dont care enough about what you think of them to give you a detailed explanation their opinion is worthless ?

Do you explain to them every time the justification behind everything you say and think ? Or are you assuming your just right while requiring everyone else to prove they are not wrong ? You dont really come out of that above conversation looking like the intellectual either by the way. Why do you feel justified to talk to someone in that manner ?....

Ya see there's too many requests to justify everything everyone says. If someone recommends a show you check it out, or you dont. If you know you dont have the same tastes you know you'll more than likely not like the recommended show. Because nobody is that busy or important to be that pedantic in everyday situations.

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

I'm a small bit confused. You're calling other people stupid for watching a show .This is because they cannot explain why they like a show you think is crap (because they have to justify it to you). If they cannot justify it by explaining the logic and reason behind their opinion they are the idiots you assumed they were. If they dont care enough about what you think of them to give you a detailed explanation their opinion is worthless ?

I don't think anybody's stupid for watching a show. You're saying that, not me. If somebody told me they only like terrible things, and that they critique nothing, accept any old shite, I'd think they were more likely to be stupid.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Do you explain to them every time the justification behind everything you say and think ? Or are you assuming your just right while requiring everyone else to prove they are not wrong ? You dont really come out of that above conversation looking like the intellectual either by the way. Why do you feel justified to talk to someone in that manner ?....

I do. They usually ask. Most people I've known ask about influences or thoughts, just like I'd ask them. We clearly come from different universes.
The conversation was a hypothetical with me expressing my honest inward thoughts at the end, I'd never be that impolite.
Whereas if I said "Hey, you should watch 'The Wire'!", and they didn't like it... They wouldn't (and haven't) been so polite.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Ya see there's too many requests to justify everything everyone says. If someone recommends a show you check it out, or you dont. If you know you dont have the same tastes you know you'll more than likely not like the recommended show. Because nobody is that busy or important to be that pedantic in everyday situations.

I don't agree. Besides being a lazy attitude, it seems like we'd be talking about fuck all. How would we pass the time?
How could I either work with those people, or be friends with them, without being bored out of my fucking gourd?

Nodin

weemcd wrote: »

............

Have you talked to a young wan recently, say below the age of 17/18? jesus.

No Garda, I have not.

dark crystal

grindle wrote: »

I'm definitely not the benchmark.
Plus, you just justified. You're capable of it.
Now I'd like the people who watch crap (that they regularly admit is crap) to justify their choice.
Not because I'm the arbiter of intelligence, but because people should be able analyse and explain why and how they like or do something.
I'd consider that ability one of the main differences between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.
Coherent thought? Reasoning? Ability to communicate complex (not even complex, though) ideas to others of their species?

I watch it because it's entertaining to me - hence being called 'light entertainment'. There's really no reason deeper than that.

I watch a myriad of programming - documentaries, arts shows, soap operas, history and wildlife programs, dramas.

It's frankly ridiculous to define someone's intelligence based soley on a couple of programs they might watch. I would ask anyone questioning other people's intelligence based on their viewing habits what exactly they tune in to at the weekend....

grindle

dark crystal wrote: »

It's frankly ridiculous to define someone's intelligence based soley on a couple of programs they might watch.

I'm not. I don't. It's just one mark against them.
If they make up for it in other ways, good.
If they don't, bad.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

I don't agree. Besides being a lazy attitude, it seems like we'd be talking about fuck all. How would we pass the time?
How could I either work with those people, or be friends with them, without being bored out of my fucking gourd?

You talk about common interests I suppose. Dont think asking people to explain why they watch a shít program is anything other than you saying "are you stupid" anyway to be honest. Most people who I know who watch those programs know full well the hatred others have for them. I dont see the need to put them on the spot or imply lack of intelligence or try convince them the show is shít. I just accept they like it, they enjoy watching it and I dont try to ruin that for them to prove a point.

dark crystal

grindle wrote: »

I'm not. I don't. It's just one mark against them.
If they make up for it in other ways, good.
If they don't, bad.

What an arbitrary way to judge people. Very strange.

Anyway, any insights in to your own viewing habits at all...?

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

I dont see the need to put them on the spot or imply lack of intelligence or try convince them the show is shít. I just accept they like it, they enjoy watching it and I dont try to ruin that for them to prove a point.

If asking why they like something qualifies as putting them "on the spot", there's little hope to be had in humans.
I don't imply a lack of intelligence, but if they can't verbalise why they like something, they've implied it themselves.
I don't try to convince them it's shit. If I say something is shit, and they say it isn't, I'll say why I think it is, and expect a response for why they think it isn't.
This isn't very hard. We're a fairly advanced species.
I don't try to ruin it for them to prove a point - I'll accept that they like it, and disregard their opinion in future.
Just like your post implies I should anyway.

LordSmeg wrote: »

If you know you dont have the same tastes you know you'll more than likely not like the recommended show.

But if they insist I watch something, I'm gonna ask "Why?".
I don't know why this completely inoffensive action is so offensive?

I'd ask you to clarify, but any type of justification is a heinous act which should be rebelled against, one which no human should ever ask another to commit.

grindle

dark crystal wrote: »

What an arbitrary way to judge people. Very strange.

Anyway, any insights in to your own viewing habits at all...?

Sure. Some of these (red) I watch by force of girlfriend.

The Wire
The Sopranos
Boardwalk Empire
Game Of Thrones
Breaking Bad
QI
Medium
Mad Men
Criminal Fucking Minds
The Walking Dead

Anything that David Mitchell, Stewart Lee, Charlie Brooker, Dylan Moran touch off of. Dara O'Briain's stand-up.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

But if they insist I watch something, I'm gonna ask "Why?".
I don't know why this completely inoffensive action is so offensive?

I'd ask you to clarify, but any type of justification is a heinous act which should be rebelled against, one which no human should ever ask another to commit.

If your issue is with someone who insists you watch some you think is shít without explaining why then I get ya. But your argument started out judging people on what they value and implying people who value shít programs were more inclined to be stupid.

So its clear from the start you view these people as stupid and only change your opinion if they give a valid reason to watch the show. I dont have to ask people to explain that to me, I know why they watch it and I respect their right to watch something they enjoy watching. Thats good enough for me. You clearly know that every show has something to offer. Yet you insist on someone explaining themselves to you to tell you what your already know before you give them any respect.

Funny too how you demand other people to justify themselves to you yet when I question your justification to do that you get upset over it. Pretty clear indication you dont like being questioned yet feel everyone else must explain themselves to you.

dark crystal

grindle wrote: »

Sure. Some of these (red) I watch by force of girlfriend.

The Wire
The Sopranos
Boardwalk Empire
Game Of Thrones
Breaking Bad
QI
Medium
Mad Men
Criminal Fucking Minds
The Walking Dead

Anything that David Mitchell, Stewart Lee, Charlie Brooker, Dylan Moran touch off of. Dara O'Briain's stand-up.

Watch a good few of those myself (none of your girlfriend's choices, though )

Mainly drama and comedy then...any factual stuff?

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

Funny too how you demand other people to justify themselves to you yet when I question your justification to do that you get upset over it. Pretty clear indication you dont like being questioned yet feel everyone else must explain themselves to you.

I did? No, I'll happily answer with my justifications.
The fact that you ask for my justifications is hypocritical though, because according to you, it's rude to do, and I should just do the zombie-stare and say "I just think that way."
I don't mind being questioned at all.
I don't like people watching/reading/listening to tripe and expecting other people to go "You watch/read/listen to this, but your opinion on said medium is still as valid as mine or anyone else's."

grindle

dark crystal wrote: »

Mainly drama and comedy then...any factual stuff?

Pretty much any of the BBC Life series, but I tend to read up on history or anything technical, TV shows tend to gloss over large swathes of time and facts.

jive

Anyone who thinks Bieber isn't talented hasn't a clue. He might make music that you don't like because you're not the target demographic nor is it your genre of music, but the guy is talented.

Funnily enough the only time I ever hear about Bieber is when people whinge about him, what are people doing that Bieber impedes on their lives so much? I listen to the radio a bit and only know one of his songs.

Baby baby baby oooooooooooh
What a tune

Also, with regards to untalented so-and-so's, the likes of 'reality' tv such as Jersey Shore provide light entertainment. Not every program has to be for the greater good or for enlightenment, some shít is just entertaining.

Scioch

grindle wrote: »

I did? No, I'll happily answer with my justifications.
The fact that you ask for my justifications is hypocritical though, because according to you, it's rude to do, and I should just do the zombie-stare and say "I just think that way."
I don't mind being questioned at all.
I don't like people watching/reading/listening to tripe and expecting other people to go "You watch/read/listen to this, but your opinion on said medium is still as valid as mine or anyone else's."

How is it hypocritical ? Your making points and I'm asking you to explain them. I said it was rude to demand people to justify their personal opinions in normal conversation. And rather ignorant to consider them stupid until they do so.

Well their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. Just because you dont agree with someone doesnt make them automatically wrong. I think this is your issue, just because you say its shít doesnt actually make it shít. Its just shít in your opinion. You have already said that its fine when people give a reason for liking the show. Now your going back to your original argument of discounting their opinion regardless of their reasons.

grindle

LordSmeg wrote: »

How is it hypocritical ?

Your making points and I'm asking you to explain them.

I said it was rude to demand people to justify their personal opinions in normal conversation.

You ask me to explain my opinions, whilst saying it's rude to do such a thing... That's hypocrisy.

Well their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.

But not necessarily to everybody else.

Just because you dont agree with someone doesnt make them automatically wrong.

It does, in my opinion. Just like I've been called a bore, or pretentious, for not liking the Kings of Leon or The Only Way Is Essex, and for liking what I do like. In their opinion.

I think this is your issue, just because you say its shít doesnt actually make it shít. Its just shít in your opinion.

It's almost everyone's issue. I've never met a single person who hasn't gone "You don't like _____?" after knowing them past a few days. You're an extreme rarity.

You have already said that its fine when people give a reason for liking the show. Now your going back to your original argument of discounting their opinion regardless of their reasons.

Nope. If they give a reason for liking what I think is bad, great.
They don't, or haven't... Bad.

Like jive's post above yours... Not all of it's accurate.
Bieber does have a talent. Good singer. People don't like his music because his songs are just a predictable product without any genuine meaning or worth. It's throwaway.
But he has a talent, so jive's point is valid there.

On Jersey Shore though... Just go to your local yokel club, and you'll have enough for a season in a few weeks.
Maybe some people find violent, superficial gowls entertaining, I don't.
I reserve the right to call bullshit on that as a justification for liking it.
In My Opinion. Which I - because it's my opinion - think is right.

Mardy Bum

LordSmeg wrote: »

How is it hypocritical ? Your making points and I'm asking you to explain them. I said it was rude to demand people to justify their personal opinions in normal conversation. And rather ignorant to consider them stupid until they do so.

Well their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. Just because you dont agree with someone doesnt make them automatically wrong. I think this is your issue, just because you say its shít doesnt actually make it shít. Its just shít in your opinion. You have already said that its fine when people give a reason for liking the show. Now your going back to your original argument of discounting their opinion regardless of their reasons.

If someone has an educated opinion on a film or a book or a play or whatever then their opinion is far greater than a non educated opinion on the merits of a particular piece. Now this is not the same as "enjoyment" it is a critical view. You may not like something but you can say that it is well put together.
Enjoyment on the otherhand can be derived from anything. The level of enjoyment somebody derives from a show has nothing to do with the actual critical value that the show has. For instance Desperate Housewives has dwarfed The Wire in terms of viewership and it may be more enjoyable for some people as it does not take the same commitment to watch. However critically The Wire is an astounding show while Desperate Housewives is mere tosh which will be tossed by the wayside and forgotten about in the very near future while The Wire will be considered one of American's greatest cultural works.

Similarly people no doubt loved the Da Vinci Code as it was a fast paced thrilling novel and easily read while something like Ulysses is an extremely hard to follow modernist dialectic novel renowned for its difficulty. The majority of people no doubt would "enjoy" Dan Brown much more than Joyce however critically Joyce's work is a masterpiece for the modern world contributing to linguistic, philosophy and numerous other areas all in one book.

TL:DR Enjoyment is different to critical analysis so you can say that a show is better critically.

Scioch

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If someone has an educated opinion on a film or a book or a play or whatever then their opinion is far greater than a non educated opinion on the merits of a particular piece. Now this is not the same as "enjoyment" it is a critical view. You may not like something but you can say that it is well put together.
Enjoyment on the otherhand can be derived from anything. The level of enjoyment somebody derives from a show has nothing to do with the actual critical value that the show has. For instance Desperate Housewives has dwarfed The Wire in terms of viewership and it may be more enjoyable for some people as it does not take the same commitment to watch. However critically The Wire is an astounding show while Desperate Housewives is mere tosh which will be tossed by the wayside and forgotten about in the very near future while The Wire will be considered one of American's greatest cultural works.

Similarly people no doubt loved the Da Vinci Code as it was a fast paced thrilling novel and easily read while something like Ulysses is an extremely hard to follow modernist dialectic novel renowned for its difficulty. The majority of people no doubt would "enjoy" Dan Brown much more than Joyce however critically Joyce's work is a masterpiece for the modern world contributing to linguistic, philosophy and numerous other areas all in one book.

TL:DR Enjoyment is different to critical analysis so you can say that a show is better critically.

I agree but the point made (or what I took to be the point) was that those who watch something the poster considers rubbish lose the right to have a valid opinion. A person may watch xfactor for enjoyment and still be capable critical analysis.