missing employee

argentum

I seem to be the different to most posters on here in that my employee just never came in to work.He is with us 4 yrs and claims to be sick every now and then but has never given a sick note from any doctor.He disapeared three weeks ago and sent a text saying he was sick and to get someone else to cover for him.He wont answer his phone or reply to texts but in the three weeks he has texted again once to say hes on unpaid leave.(we havent paid him since he's out).
we are a small company and really need someone to do his work or we could close down ,.he also put in his text that if we want to replace him we can and he'll move on.What are my options because as far as i'm concerned he left ,why should I pay him off instead of using the money to pay someone else or do i have to pay notice etc

andrew241983

ill take his job if he doesnt want it !!!!

Carter P Fly

Why pay him anything? He's agreed to resign without working his notice. Send him his P45 and be done with it.

Eoin

Carter P Fly wrote: »

Why pay him anything? He's agreed to resign without working his notice. Send him his P45 and be done with it.

I'd tread carefully. He hasn't officially resigned, so sending him his P45 could be seen as dismissal without following due procedure. In fact, I think there was quite a similar case in the labour court recently.

I think you need to try and get him to resign formally and you can both waive notice (at no cost to you). Or you might have to go down the disciplinary route to address both his absenteeism and the lack of contact.

I think you should cover your ass a little though. Effectively letting him go without going through the correct procedures can and does backfire, no matter how clearly at fault the employee is.

I'd start the recruitment process pretty sharpish though.

Edit - here's a link to the sort of similar case I mentioned. Employee and employer have a disagreement, and employee asks for his P45. Employer gives P45 and employee wins 20,000.

whatdoicare

I'd head into citizens advice if I were you - they usually offer a free solicitor service and they might be able to lay out your options for you.

mikemac1

I'd send a registered letter to his house and ensure it gets signed for

Not sure what to say exactly.
For now just you want an exact update of his status and give a deadline to reply
If he wants to quit then he should write that and post it back

Everything in writing


I told my boss I was leaving before and he called me back and made me put it in writing and sign and date.
I left on good terms, just I didn't realise that was necessary so I did it no problem

Eoin

Registered letter is a good idea - but be very careful with the wording if you're going to ask him to resign in the letter. That's something I'd maybe get professional advice on. When you're talking to him, don't rush to question him on how genuine the illness is.

Could his job be done by a temp for the time being? If this is affecting business, then get someone else in ASAP. And unfortunately, you have to be careful advertising a permanent job - if it's seen as replacing him while it's still up in the air, you could be in trouble there too.

If this guy does decide to come back, then you might have to go down the unpleasant route of "managing him out", which isn't fun for anyone.

This guy might be hoping for a payout (either his notice, or in court), so you need to be able to back yourself up.

Victor

Is he in prison or has he just moved on?

whatdoicare

Eoin wrote: »

"managing him out"

I thought this was illegal to do

Mrs OBumble

OP, you need proper legal advice, not just inter webz-randoms. Citizen's Information probably won't help, since you're a company not a citizen.

Do you belong to any employer organisations that cover legal advice?

If not, pay for some of your laywer's time.

JustAThought

argentum wrote: »

I seem to be the different to most posters on here in that my employee just never came in to work.He is with us 4 yrs and claims to be sick every now and then but has never given a sick note from any doctor.He disapeared three weeks ago and sent a text saying he was sick and to get someone else to cover for him.He wont answer his phone or reply to texts but in the three weeks he has texted again once to say hes on unpaid leave.(we havent paid him since he's out).
we are a small company and really need someone to do his work or we could close down ,.he also put in his text that if we want to replace him we can and he'll move on.What are my options because as far as i'm concerned he left ,why should I pay him off instead of using the money to pay someone else or do i have to pay notice etc

I'd be very careful about what you out in writing : text or otherwise . Does s/he have a contract? Is s/he going through the books ? Are they self employed? Do you have a HR policy/ employers guide that they have been advised of? Could they be saying that they are on annual leave ? Are they " allowed" take unpaid leave? Is there a precedent? Are they pregnant? Might they be? Etc.

There are some handy booklets at the citizens advise and also online from
Oasis.ie
It might be that they dont want the job or are depressed or someone has died ... Instead of getting all legal would you consider calling them & seeing? Might be something fixable ; and maybe with 4 years behind you both it could be in your favour in terms of recruitment costs & breaking in a new person tonsee what is wrong? Maybe they're just sick of the job ( no offense!) & can't face going in!! Maybe they " want" to be on the dole.. Sure it might be worth the 20p to find out : say little & just ask : what's going on; are You Ok ; it's a small company & there's a recession we need you / your skills ; we can't be without you for Much longer. See what they have to say. You dont have to commit ; just listen & then say you need to review the materials they have brought to light. Then you will know better how to approach it.
Keep us posted.

mikemac1

Eoin wrote: »

Registered letter is a good idea - but be very careful with the wording if you're going to ask him to resign in the letter.

Yep, I agree but I left it out of my post.
Leave it open for the employee to write what he wants, no ultimatums but do set a date that you want a reply for. I'm thinking 10 days

whatdoicare wrote: »

I'd head into citizens advice if I were you - they usually offer a free solicitor service and they might be able to lay out your options for you.

That's for people who need help
A business should pay for advice

drunkmonkey

An employee just can't decide to take unpaid leave and not show up, they haven't turned up for work, they haven't submitted a sick cert. They can be dismissed. Your running a business not a drop in center, get rid of them. Contact Nera about the best way to proceed or a quick phone call to your solicitor.

Eoin

whatdoicare wrote: »

I thought this was illegal to do

Not in itself, but the ways you might go about it can be.

If you've a poor performer who doesn't have the ability and/or inclination to improve, then you might well need to get rid.

whatdoicare

Eoin wrote: »

Not in itself, but the ways you might go about it can be.

If you've a poor performer who doesn't have the ability and/or inclination to improve, then you might well need to get rid.

That's terrible!!:eek: I hope that's not a common occurrence!

Eoin

whatdoicare wrote: »

That's terrible!!:eek: I hope that's not a common occurrence!

If someone can't or won't do the job they're paid for, they should be let go. That's not terrible.

The problem is when companies set unrealistic targets so they can have a history of non-performance logged against employees.

But still - an employer should have rights too.

xxlauraxxox

well its illegal what the employeee is doing he should have a medical cert after 3days of illness

you as an employer also have rights just as much as he does cntact nera
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployers/

and also seek legal advice
my employer sure wouldnt take this no employer should

hardCopy

If you're a member of the SFA you can probably get help from their advisors, I'd imagine ISME offer similar help

whatdoicare

Eoin wrote: »

If someone can't or won't do the job they're paid for, they should be let go. That's not terrible.

The problem is when companies set unrealistic targets so they can have a history of non-performance logged against employees.

But still - an employer should have rights too.

Is that not what the probation period is all about? What if the company abuses it to get employees to leave before they are eligible for bonuses or higher rates of pay?

Sure, employers have rights but go through the proper channels with warnings and written warnings for legit reasons.

Something about it all doesn't sit right with me.

Eoin

whatdoicare wrote: »

Is that not what the probation period is all about?

No, because obviously that doesn't help an employer if someone doesn't pull their weight after that stage for whatever reasons - and that happens a lot.

You've been lucky if you've never worked with someone who is crap and just really shouldn't be there.

whatdoicare wrote: »

What if the company abuses it to get employees to leave before they are eligible for bonuses or higher rates of pay?.

As I've said, unfortunately it's sometimes used in improper ways.

whatdoicare wrote: »

Sure, employers have rights but go through the proper channels with warnings and written warnings for legit reasons.

Something about it all doesn't sit right with me.

And if someone doesn't heed those warnings or respond well to a performance improvement plan and is let go, they have been managed out. That's what the term means.

I think we're going a little off topic here though and it's not really helping the OP.

whatdoicare

Eoin wrote: »

No, because obviously that doesn't help an employer if someone doesn't pull their weight after that stage for whatever reasons - and that happens a lot.

You've been lucky if you've never worked with someone who is crap and just really shouldn't be there.



As I've said, unfortunately it's sometimes used in improper ways.



And if someone doesn't heed those warnings or respond well to a performance improvement plan and is let go, they have been managed out. That's what the term means.

I think we're going a little off topic here though and it's not really helping the OP.

Ah, I get you now. I did a quick google when I first answered and it only seemed to describe bullying tactics, which is what I assumed, obviously wrongly - which I myself was a victim of.

I was not an employee that was lazy, unteachable or unwilling but merely an employee who was entitled to a higher rate of pay according to my contract that my employers were unwilling to give me. (I took them to court and won btw).

I think the written and verbal warning system is actually a very fair system - it gives everyone a chance.

Chessala

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not showing up for 3 weeks and only writing a text, isn't this employee in breach of his contract?

His behaviour is obviously harmful for the company so they should be in his right to dismiss this employee. 4 years is a long time but it should not give him the right to just skip out like that.

Also, wherever he is, this smells fishy to me...why would he not take the phone otherwise? For all the employer knows this guy is lying somewhere in the sun....

Eoin

There are procedures you have to follow before you dismiss an employee. As I said earlier, the courts are full of employees who get a settlement because someone didn't jump through the hoops, even if they clearly deserved to get fired.

LegacyUser

I would seek legal advice in regards to this employee. You could send them a letter in the post telling them they no longer have a job but you could be leaving yourself wide open to a court case.
Do you have a proper work contact signed by your employees in place?
If you don't have this at the moment I would get this sorted out as soon as possible as this gives both you and your employees a proper legal framework if you need to let someone go.

Shelflife

Eoin wrote: »

There are procedures you have to follow before you dismiss an employee. As I said earlier, the courts are full of employees who get a settlement because someone didn't jump through the hoops, even if they clearly deserved to get fired.

This is a joke really, Eoin is correct, but the fact that an employee can up and leave with in effect no punishment yet if an employer was to tell the employee that they were no longer wanted they would end up in court.

We had a situation a few years ago where we didnt trust an employee and working with her was stressful to say the least, we couldnt just give her a weeks notice and say good luck, yet she could have done this at any stage.

Its crap like this that makes it hard to be an employer.

Eoin

Shelflife wrote: »

This is a joke really, Eoin is correct, but the fact that an employee can up and leave with in effect no punishment yet if an employer was to tell the employee that they were no longer wanted they would end up in court.

They can be punished, just after due process has been followed. If someone is clearly guilty of a crime, they still need to be prosecuted rather than sentenced immediately. This situation isn't much different.

Shelflife wrote: »

We had a situation a few years ago where we didnt trust an employee and working with her was stressful to say the least, we couldnt just give her a weeks notice and say good luck, yet she could have done this at any stage.

Its crap like this that makes it hard to be an employer.

If they're doing just enough work but a pain to deal with, your hands are tied to large degree alright. That's just the way it probably has to be. If you don't favour the employees enough, then there's probably going to be too many rogue employers.

neris

If the employee has taken time of saying their sick in the past and given no sick note it could be seen that youve shown a precident in the past by not requiring the sick cert. Id be very careful in anything you write to any employee. Keep letters formal without threats or confrontation. The lrc have a twisted view on the way they see things and usually side in some way with the employee so if this guy takes you to court you want damage limitation. I would ask the employee to bring a sick cert with them on return to work and also indicate that you wod like to talk to them about their health issues and see if there is anything you can do to help them. I know its frustrating and stressful as the employer but acting in a nice way towards them may be better should thingsgo belly up. Dont give them their p45 or terminate their job. Keep all texts and correspondence and you could nearly follow up any texts or calls with a letter (1 normal post & 1 registered)

Victor

Shelflife wrote: »

This is a joke really, Eoin is correct, but the fact that an employee can up and leave with in effect no punishment yet if an employer was to tell the employee that they were no longer wanted they would end up in court.

Realise that the employer-employee relationship isn't equal and that most abuse comes down the line, not up.

djk1000

I wonder if the employee is ok? Dealing with depression maybe?

bbam

Send a registered letter.
Ask the employee for a meetIng, if they can come in great or offer to meet them on neutral ground.
Point out that they are in breech of their contract by not supplying a cert and that a cert will be required ASAP and an explanation on why it was not provided initially.

I've seen both where an employee was struggling with mental health issues, one was on a serious drink binge and one idiot had gone on holidays only to be found out when he rang in from a hotel number in France.

It's a business your running. I'd be stating in the letter that texts are not acceptable and that failure to comply with your requests will result in job abandonment which may result in termination.

neris

Victor wrote: »

Realise that the employer-employee relationship isn't equal and that most abuse comes down the line, not up.

Not always true. employees have to many rights over the employer and even in the lrc if they find in favour of employer they usually throw in a token payment to the employee