Hungary v Rep. of Ireland KO 7.30 - Setanta Ireland MOD POST #5

tigger123

Trap thinking of making a change...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/2012/0604/323563-trapattoni-talks-of-need-for-change/

Jimmy Iovine

carbon nanotube wrote: »

Its the worst Irish team I have ever seen.

and i have seen a few of them.

How or why was that directed at me?

Felexicon

steelcityblues wrote: »

Felexicon wrote: »

Nobody here has said that.

Is it an achievement to qualify? Yes
Did I celebrate when we did? Yes
Can we win it? Yes
Will we? Who knows
Will I still be proud to support Irish football if we lose 3 games? Yes

Take of you're Eammon Dunphy , sour puss, overly negative hat for a minute and be thankful that for the first time in 10 years we have a reason to look forward to a major international tournament.

Dunphy (rightly) criticised our performance against Egypt 22 years ago, and got vilified in the process by a lot of people who never even kicked a ball in their lives, unlike him. Sure, he is full of it at times, but he was right on that occasion.

By all means they deserve a fair bit of praise, but there seems to be people here - and in 'real life' - who are not wise enough to spot fair criticism.

I am not saying the team can't be criticised, but don't base it on a warm up game played 6 days before the first game of a major tournament.

Also saying Dunphy was right once 22 years ago adds no weight to your argument in all fairness.

steelcityblues

Felexicon wrote: »

I am not saying the team can't be criticised, but don't base it on a warm up game played 6 days before the first game of a major tournament.

Also saying Dunphy was right once 22 years ago adds no weight to your argument in all fairness.

It was the likely starting XI against Croatia out there,so of course they are going to be judged by journos, ex-players, forum users, etc.

My point about Dunphy is that there was a serious 'Ole Ole' brigade at the time who never wanted to hear critical analysis, along with the positives. This seems to be re-appearing now before the tournament.

SirDelboy18

tigger123 wrote: »

Trap thinking of making a change...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/2012/0604/323563-trapattoni-talks-of-need-for-change/

It is a formation we might need as we can't hold onto possession

Problem there though is that Keane doesn't suit the lone man up top in my view, and is the least equipped to play as a lone striker of the 5 that we have.

Not having a dig as I recognise his goalscoring record and know he deserves to start.

kitakyushu

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

It is a formation we might need as we can't hold onto possession

Problem there though is that Keane doesn't suit the lone man up top in my view, and is the least equipped to play as a lone striker of the 5 that we have.

Not having a dig as I recognise his goalscoring record and know he deserves to start.

I'd say if he did anything he'd stick with the same team and just put Keane in behind Doyle. IIRC he did that away to Russia when we were getting swamped.

tigger123

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

It is a formation we might need as we can't hold onto possession

Problem there though is that Keane doesn't suit the lone man up top in my view, and is the least equipped to play as a lone striker of the 5 that we have.

Not having a dig as I recognise his goalscoring record and know he deserves to start.

Cox or Walters as the attacking mid maybe? Just typin' out loud here...

tigger123

kitakyushu wrote: »

I'd say if he did anything he'd stick with the same team and just put Keane in behind Doyle. IIRC he did that away to Russia when we were getting swamped.

Keane has ended up dropping deep (just to be involved) into the middle of the pitch in some of the games in the last couple of years. He does like to drift wide sometimes too.

MoscowFlyer

People realise you can comment on what you believe to be deficiencies but still support the team 100%, right?

And if one more person trots out the line, you haven't been a manager blah blah my head might explode. It has to be the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on a message board.

Felexicon

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

People realise you can comment on what you believe to be deficiencies but still support the team 100%, right?

And if one more person trots out the line, you haven't been a manager blah blah my head might explode. It has to be the most ridiculous argument ever put forward on a message board.

You probably don't understand what they're getting at because you've never managed at the highest level

kitakyushu

Can anyone who has not won a European winners medal as manager please stop posting on this thread. Thank you.

Felexicon

kitakyushu wrote: »

Can anyone who has not won a European winners medal as manager please stop posting on this thread. Thank you.

Club or national?

kitakyushu

Felexicon wrote: »

Club or national?

European Cup / Champions League specifically.

tolosenc

Is it me or have we made more of an effort to keep it on the deck and pass short in the last 2 games than we have for ages?

kitakyushu

tolosenc wrote: »

Is it me or have we made more of an effort to keep it on the deck and pass short in the last 2 games than we have for ages?

Defo. Those big Dunne diagonal kicks to McGeady weren't in evidence much tonight.

ambid

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

It is a formation we might need as we can't hold onto possession

Problem there though is that Keane doesn't suit the lone man up top in my view, and is the least equipped to play as a lone striker of the 5 that we have.

Not having a dig as I recognise his goalscoring record and know he deserves to start.

Keane played very deep, almost in midfield, for Aston Villa and he was excellent in that role. He has the touch and experience to easily fill that role for Ireland.

If Trap does play one striker, then that probably can't be Doyle. He's great at holding up and flick ons, but Walters is much more mobile. I'd love to see Walters up front with Keane tucked in behind.

carbon nanotube

kitakyushu wrote: »

Was your tv broken for the 5-2 against Cyprus?

Cyprus..

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

the team is crap, boring as hell.

cant see them scoring more than 1 goal = elimination

thats a bad return for the effort fans are paying to get there.

SirDelboy18

carbon nanotube wrote: »

Cyprus..

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

the team is crap, boring as hell.

cant see them scoring more than 1 goal = elimination

thats a bad return for the effort fans are paying to get there.

I've been critical of Ireland at times but this is ridiculous.

Of course the players will try their best for themselves, for the supporters and for Ireland. They might be limited but they don't lack heart.

By your logic people should only pay money if they are sure of victory. Rubbish attitude.

monkey9

Yes, this is the worst Ireland team ever, one that has qualified for a major tournament!!! :rolleyes:

FFS

carbon nanotube

monkey9 wrote: »

Yes, this is the worst Ireland team ever, one that has qualified for a major tournament!!! :rolleyes:

FFS

tipped to finish bottom also,, i see what you did there..:cool:

Dean820

carbon nanotube wrote: »

Cyprus..

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

the team is crap, boring as hell.

cant see them scoring more than 1 goal = elimination

thats a bad return for the effort fans are paying to get there.

You're not the first one to make this prediction.

I got Ireland in the office draw for the Euro's, I hope they go on and surprise everyone. They are more than capable.

SantryRed

Last night was difficult viewing at times.

How deep we drop is very frustrating at times. There is no point in dropping that deep. I don't think centre midfield is our biggest worry anymore. It's the left side of our defense. Having Ward and St. Ledger there is a disaster waiting to happen and I know it's not going to happen but I'd much prefer O'Shea alongside Dunne and Kelly right full, just to give Ward more experience over there.

I don't get how lucky we get in games. The other team never seems to get any luck or bottle their best chances :pac:

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

Last night was difficult viewing at times.

How deep we drop is very frustrating at times. There is no point in dropping that deep. I don't think centre midfield is our biggest worry anymore. It's the left side of our defense. Having Ward and St. Ledger there is a disaster waiting to happen and I know it's not going to happen but I'd much prefer O'Shea alongside Dunne and Kelly right full, just to give Ward more experience over there.

I don't get how lucky we get in games. The other team never seems to get any luck or bottle their best chances :pac:

Regression to the mean after Paris and Kerr's last campaign.

tolosenc

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't get how lucky we get in games. The other team never seems to get any luck or bottle their best chances :pac:

Maybe it's a bit of "****, these guys have conceded 3 in their last 14 games, I've no chance of scoring"...

secman

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

tolosenc

secman wrote: »

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

Good for you.

Orando Broom

kitakyushu wrote: »

Can anyone who has not won a European winners medal as manager please stop posting on this thread. Thank you.

About time someone brought this up. THe quality of poster on the soccer thread is shocking lately. Since Pep and Jose left/ were banned and Pighead (Arrigo Sacchi) started to post less frequently the place has diminished.

Moneymaker

secman wrote: »

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

Good. One less supporter bitching and moaning is quite a favorable situation for all of us.

kitakyushu

secman wrote: »

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

You'd better set it for 9.35 then just so you don't accidentally end up seeing any of the injury time.

Bounty Hunter

secman wrote: »

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

I get that its not exactly hugely entertaining football we play but I know ill be on the edge of my seat (well sat up slightly in bed) until about 4am watching this one cos of how important the game is.

I honestly think Ireland games vs decent sides are generally entertaining be it cos we actually realise we can play football or in a nervous excited way heroic defending can create. I can remember watching Ireland vs Russia, France etc on streams very late at night and not being slightly sleepy during them for example.

sReq | uTeK

I Love the irish bashing it's quote hilarious and shows how much people know about football.

We play to our strengths like most teams do and we happen to do it VERY well, go look back when our last competetive defeat took place.

I hope we get out of our group. A mammoth tak but one im i think we're capable of achieving.

Felexicon

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I Love the irish bashing it's quote hilarious and shows how much people know about football.

We play to our strengths like most teams do and we happen to do it VERY well, go look back when our last competetive defeat took place.

I hope we get out of our group. A mammoth tak but one im i think we're capable of achieving.

Correct.

People think we should play this open, attacking football. But in reality we don't have the squad to do this. Now that's not to say we don't have the players because with the likes of McClean, McGeady, Duff, Keane etc, we have skillful players who are good with the ball at thier feet. But international football is more about systems than anything else and for our system to work we need to allow for the possibilty of injuries and still be able to bring in a replacement without having to change the whole system.

Chelsea got the same kind of reaction when they employed a negative tactic against Barcelona but the fact of the matter is it works and at the end of the day I'd rather win ugly than look good and lose

Renn

I've no issue with Ireland playing that way with the group of players they have - I'm not sure they have any other option. But you can still question the overall effectiveness of it and whether it will work vs stronger teams. Chelsea weren't exactly solid in the two semi finals + final, so even though they got the result I'm not sure if it tactically went to plan for them. I think Barcelona and Bayern got their tactics spot on (judging by the amount of chances created (and many clear-cut ones at that) but failed to put it in the back of the net.

mark renton

secman wrote: »

I have set my alarm for next sunday night, it's set for 9:30 ish pm, to wake me up so I can see the Final score of our first match, otherwise i would be in a very very deep sleep ...................having staretd to watch the match. Christ, its hard to watch these days.

Secman

You should have seen it in big jacks time - constantly lumping ball from back to front, very hard to watch, however had it not been for Toto Scillachi we would have won a World Cup !! :cool:

Felexicon

john47832 wrote: »

You should have seen it in big jacks time - constantly lumping ball from back to front, very hard to watch, however had it not been for Toto Scillachi we would have won a World Cup !! :cool:

Was he not Irish :pac::pac:

Pro. F

Felexicon wrote: »

People think we should play this open, attacking football.

The majority of people who might have some criticisms of how Trap is managing the team do not want Ireland to play some open attacking style. It's stupid to pretend they do.

Felexicon

Pro. F wrote: »

The majority of people who might have some criticisms of how Trap is managing the team do not want Ireland to play some open attacking style. It's stupid to pretend they do.

So what do they want?

kitakyushu

john47832 wrote: »

You should have seen it in big jacks time - constantly lumping ball from back to front, very hard to watch, however had it not been for Toto Scillachi we would have won a World Cup !! :cool:

It wasn't constant. I've been recently watching some of the old finals games with Ireland (88 90 94) and whilst they did have a longball strategy they also really could play. I was surprised myself.

Especially 1994 and to a lesser extent 88 (not so much 90) they would have spells during the games of nice passing and possession play.

Watch the build up to Aldridge's famous goal v Mexico here. That was not the play of a mere hoof-ball team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwC0vsJcjI

Ormus

kitakyushu wrote: »

It wasn't constant. I've been recently watching some of the old finals games with Ireland (88 90 94) and whilst they did have a longball strategy they also really could play. I was surprised myself.

Especially 1994 and to a lesser extent 88 (not so much 90) they would have spells during the games of nice passing and possession play.

Watch the build up to Aldridge's famous goal v Mexico here. That was not the play of a mere hoof-ball team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvwC0vsJcjI

Yeah its true, towards the end of his tenure Jack did take a few positive steps, such as finding room for the silky passing stylings of John Sheridan in midfield. Mind you that did mean Tommy Coyne usually playing on his own up front, with Aldo coming off the bench.

Francie Barrett

Felexicon wrote: »

So what do they want?

Well it would help if we didn't get into a blind panic anytime any of our players touched a ball.

Francie Barrett

tigger123 wrote: »

Trap thinking of making a change...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/2012/0604/323563-trapattoni-talks-of-need-for-change/

So much for our "system" :rolleyes:

Ormus

Pro. F wrote: »

The majority of people who might have some criticisms of how Trap is managing the team do not want Ireland to play some open attacking style. It's stupid to pretend they do.

1. Amateur opinion passed off as expert gospel knowledge? Check
2. Inciteful personal insult thrown in out of the blue? Check
3. Friendly chat about football turned into teenage slagging match? Check

Pro F is in da house.

Fishooks12

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Well it would help if we didn't get into a blind panic anytime any of our players touched a ball.

I really hope we do well just to spite you

Fair enough having serious critique about the team but you just seem to want us to lose

LuckyLloyd

I mean, in 88 we had Whelan on the pitch. In 94 we had Keane and Sheridan in the middle. We had players who were used to getting it down and playing it year round at club level. Then the likes of Staunton, Irwin, Babb, McAteer were all playing in systems where the ball was knocked about on the deck.

I think the make up of the 90 starting 11 was demonstrably different, and it makes sense that the football was a little different too.

You think about our current lineup:

- Given / Dunne spent the season under McCleish;
- Whelan / Walters spent the season at Stoke;
- Andrews played for Hodgson during the second half of the year, Long / Cox the whole season;
- McClean broke into the team under O'Neill who plays a very direct game / O'Shea / Westwood were playing under Bruce before that, hardly samba stuff;
- Doyle / Hunt / Ward have spent the year playing at Wolves under McCarthy who to be fair aren't the worst though it does involve getting it wide and putting a lot of crosses in, etc;
- O'Dea spent the last few months under Warnock at Leeds;

Gibson, Duff and McGeady have come from a more expansive footballing tableau I guess (and Keane is a genius) - but really, when you consider the core of our current squad, what we are doing fits what they are doing week in, week out.

Felexicon

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Well it would help if we didn't get into a blind panic anytime any of our players touched a ball.

I've read a few of your posts here and to be honest you don't have a clue about football. I wouldn't even call you a barstooler you know so little. Your posts have no relevance to the conversation.
Our players do not go into a blind panic when on the ball, they actually look more comfortable than most Irish teams of the past when on the ball.
Why would you waste your time with such nonesense

LuckyLloyd

By the way, we spent a lot of the game last night trying to keep it on the deck and pass it. It didn't work a lot of the time but the intention was there...

Felexicon

Ormus wrote: »

1. Amateur opinion passed off as expert gospel knowledge? Check
2. Inciteful personal insult thrown in out of the blue? Check
3. Friendly chat about football turned into teenage slagging match? Check

Pro F is in da house.

No response when asked to back up his point? Check

Francie Barrett

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I really hope we do well just to spite you

Fair enough having serious critique about the team but you just seem to want us to lose

I keep saying this, but I want the deal to do well.

devotional1993

I saw very little long ball last night -infact we did play some nice football at times. When you consider the state of the pitch I nearly would have expected more long balls.

Lets be honest-there are people here who will always put the National team down or make silly cliches regarding the team who actually havent even watched the team progress since the Staunton era

mark renton

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I mean, in 88 we had Whelan on the pitch. In 94 we had Keane and Sheridan in the middle. We had players who were used to getting it down and playing it year round at club level. Then the likes of Staunton, Irwin, Babb, McAteer were all playing in systems where the ball was knocked about on the deck.

I think the make up of the 90 starting 11 was demonstrably different, and it makes sense that the football was a little different too.

.

The above is correct however Jack insisted that the ball be lumped forward and that is the way the team played - however you will find that there was no passing the ball through midfield unless we were behind, and then the team periodically passed the ball contrary to Jacks instructions at the time