Galway Airport - mega merge

Dan_Solo

The clutching at straws in this thread is little short of cringeworthy. Galway obviously neither wants nor needs and airport. Get over it. (Hopefully the council can do likewise)

mackjark

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The clutching at straws in this thread is little short of cringeworthy. Galway obviously neither wants nor needs and airport. Get over it. (Hopefully the council can do likewise)

Actually it does or did but they messed it up and instead a foggy boggy runway built by a priest in the middle of nowhere is the nearest airport to Galway. If that succeeded all it proves is how incompetent the management of Galway airport was and how shortsighted they were in building a runway too short and too narrow.

But there is absolutely no reason why sometime in the future there might be a market for scheduled services even seasonal. The reason it closed as a commercial airport is because they got themselves into serious debt and couldn't survive the loss of flights. Simple as that. Their own hubris brought them down.

But that's all by the way. The fact is that the airport site can now revert to what it was. An airfield with light aircraft coming and going. All other talk of stadiums and business parks is about as realistic as Ryanair landing 737s there.

The Airport is dead, long live the airfield.

yew_tree

mackjark wrote: »

Actually it does or did but they messed it up and instead a foggy boggy runway built by a priest in the middle of nowhere is the nearest airport to Galway.

That foggy boggy hill is now a thriving airport for its size mate. Against all the odds and the management at Knock over the past 10 years deserve huge credit.

The airport is 50 mins form Sligo, and once the m17 is complete up to Tuam then, geographically it's roughly int he centre of Connaught. That's one of the reasons the site was picked. I know at the time they looked at a site in south. Mayo between roundfort and kilconoly. Knock will what be 50mins or less from Galway city and roughly the same from Shannon. Galway will more than be well served in the coming years. Get over it.

WallyGUFC

antoobrien wrote: »

None, but the sporting facilities in Galway have an extremely tightly scoped vested interest, as I have pointed out in my examples. We need something that is less restrictive if we are to be serious about producing more Paul Hessions & Olive Loughnanes.



We'll call it a sports campus with multiple functions:
Something along the lines of the Morton stadium in Santry - track & field & associated facilities. Not sure about indoor track, maybe as part of a multi story complex.

Something along the lines of the NAC in Blanchardstown - 50m pool that can be split into two 20m-25m pools for recreation. Also a (small) 5m deep pool for diving (high and also scuba training). There's an water park/aquatic center in tralee/killarney (can't remember which), so there's no reason why it couldn't work.

A floodlit pitch that could host soccer/rughby/gaa. There is a need for a floodlit pitch in Galway for GAA purposes. Also could you imagine the crowd we'd get to the connacht v Tolouse match if a bigger ground was available? Such a ground can't be under the control of the GAA.

One of the above should also double as a concert venue (we have no mid size venue worth speaking of) - or perhaps build it onto/beside the sports facility and share parking facilities.

Why build facilities for sports that aren't very popular in this country at all and where uptake at youth level is absolutely minimal i.e. track and field? And a diving pool? Come on.

There is absolutely no way that GAA will ever permanently share its stadia with any other sport so that idea doesn't work. If you were to build a stadium for just Connacht and the new Galway FC it would have to have a max capacity of 10k I'd say to avoid it being embarrassingly empty every week. But Galway fans are notoriously fair-weather. Just wait until Connacht don't "qualify" for the Heineken Cup. Attendances will plummet. Galway FC will never attract a crowd.

And to be honest, I don't understand your point about creating new Paul Hessions or Olive Loughnanes. What has vested interests got to do with that? The best young sportspeople in the county are members of clubs already. I think it's highly unlikely that opening up "world-class" facilities to everyone will suddenly result in a massive increase of world-class international athletes.

I'd also question the need for a floodlit GAA stadium in the county. Sure, it would be handy, but in the main throughout Ireland, only league games are played in the evenings and I personally believe that Sunday afternoon league games in Tuam or Pearse Stadium are grand.

Anyway, it'll never happen. Might as well build a 15,000 seater tennis stadium and host a 5th Grand Slam. Park and Ride didn't work. Airport didn't work. It will probably fall into a state of disrepair and eventually be flattened in a decade or two.

then, geographically it's roughly int he centre of Connaught.t.

Thats exactly why Knock succeeded over Galway, The whole west and North west of Ireland is a rural community. Knock serves the whole community not just one city.

Cosmo Kramer

mackjark wrote: »

But there is absolutely no reason why sometime in the future there might be a market for scheduled services even seasonal.

Aside from your snide and inaccurate comments about Knock this is the part of your post that concerns me and makes me hope that Galway Airport is flattened as soon as possible. It has been proven time and again that there is not a sustainable market for flights from Galway - Aer Arann, flybe, British Airways, Manx 2 and others have tried, none could make it work. The danger if it stays in existence in some form is that someone else could be stupid enough to do a Padraig O'Ceidigh and burn a few million there while potentially damaging more viable airports in the process.

shankespony

More bad news for west of ireland, is all the money to be kept inside the Pale while the rest becomes desolate? A realshame imo

Storm 10

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Aside from your snide and inaccurate comments about Knock this is the part of your post that concerns me and makes me hope that Galway Airport is flattened as soon as possible. It has been proven time and again that there is not a sustainable market for flights from Galway - Aer Arann, flybe, British Airways, Manx 2 and others have tried, none could make it work. The danger if it stays in existence in some form is that someone else could be stupid enough to do a Padraig O'Ceidigh and burn a few million there while potentially damaging more viable airports in the process.

Aer Arann flights to London and Manchester had over 80% seat occupancy on all flights to those destinations, it was the loss of the PSO money that made them run, British Airways never operated from Galway, Manx was only summer flights to the Isle of Man and Flybe only flew to Belfast so not very attractive destinations, the Summer schedule to Malaga was very popular, Padraig O Ceidigh made his money in Galway then ran when the PSO money was pulled. There are rumours out there that Eddie Stobart could be looking at Galway he already owns Aer Arann and Southend Airport

mackjark

yew_tree wrote: »

That foggy boggy hill is now a thriving airport for its size mate. Against all the odds and the management at Knock over the past 10 years deserve huge credit.

The airport is 50 mins form Sligo, and once the m17 is complete up to Tuam then, geographically it's roughly int he centre of Connaught. That's one of the reasons the site was picked. I know at the time they looked at a site in south. Mayo between roundfort and kilconoly. Knock will what be 50mins or less from Galway city and roughly the same from Shannon. Galway will more than be well served in the coming years. Get over it.

I am over it. My goodness aren't Mayo people very sensitive and thin skinned. Bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to Galway eh? Well get over it and I'm a Dub anyway.

The fact is the reason Knock is thriving is not it's location which is absurd but the fact the Galway lot fumbled the ball. They got lucky. Let's not pretend it was inspired and far sighted planning. But all credit to them I for one am not going to knock Knock.

But all that is an aside from my main point all along is that the airport site is best suited to remaining an airfield. Not an airport but an airfield.

But incidentally now that it's debts are gone there is absolutely no reason someone can't come in and run it properly and yes Kosmo maybe even bring back some scheduled services when the time is right. But it's not a threat to Knock or Shannon. So all you Mayo types can rest easy.

The Stobart rumour is interesting though. With their interests in Aer Arann and two airports it kind of fits.

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

Aer Arann flights to London and Manchester had over 80% seat occupancy on all flights to those destinations, it was the loss of the PSO money that made them run

I don't think you seem to realise that's the same as saying that Galway airport is not commercially viable. If the only way it can make ends meet it through hand outs, then yes, it is unwanted.
As a matter of interest, is every last person proposing that Galway Airport has a future somebody who flies a plane rather than a prospective passenger? Odd that, isn't it?

Storm 10

Of course it has a future if people like you stopped knocking it, unreal the attitude here towards an Airport in Galway you must be all from Mayo

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

Of course it has a future if people like you stopped knocking it, unreal the attitude here towards an Airport in Galway you must be all from Mayo

If people would just stop knocking my ideas for a nuclear submarine construction yard and spaceport in Galway, they'd magically becoming economically viable too.
You didn't answer the question I notice. You have an interest in Galway Airport other than as a prospective passenger, right? Too simple surely...

Cosmo Kramer

Storm 10 wrote: »

Aer Arann flights to London and Manchester had over 80% seat occupancy on all flights to those destinations, it was the loss of the PSO money that made them run, British Airways never operated from Galway, Manx was only summer flights to the Isle of Man and Flybe only flew to Belfast so not very attractive destinations, the Summer schedule to Malaga was very popular, Padraig O Ceidigh made his money in Galway then ran when the PSO money was pulled. There are rumours out there that Eddie Stobart could be looking at Galway he already owns Aer Arann and Southend Airport

A couple of things to pick up on here.

Firstly, seat occupancy does not equate to viability. If you charge low enough amounts you can fill planes going to just about anywhere. The only reason that those routes continued was because of government grant money on the PSO that Aer Arann received for the Dublin route which indirectly funded them. As soon as that was pulled their entire route network became unviable - so they upped and left.

Secondly, British Airways did indeed briefly operate from Galway (to Glasgow). It was around 2004 or 2005.

Also, flybe had a route to Birmingham as well as Belfast (possibly one to Southampton as well?), but pulled all of their Galway routes in 2007.

More than enough airlines have tried and failed at the facility to demonstrate its unviability at this point.

Storm 10

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

A couple of things to pick up on here.

Firstly, seat occupancy does not equate to viability. If you charge low enough amounts you can fill planes going to just about anywhere. The only reason that those routes continued was because of government grant money on the PSO that Aer Arann received for the Dublin route which indirectly funded them. As soon as that was pulled their entire route network became unviable - so they upped and left.

Secondly, British Airways did indeed briefly operate from Galway (to Glasgow).

It was operated by Logan Airways not British Airways

Cosmo Kramer

Storm 10 wrote: »

It was operated by Logan Airways not British Airways

...who were a franchise operator for BA at the time.

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

It was operated by Logan Airways not British Airways

Did you miss the question again? Not great eyesight if you're a pilot of some sort like I suspect you are. So once more:
What is your involvement with Galway Airport?
For full disclosure, mine is: sometimes passenger, back when it was subsidised.

Storm 10

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Did you miss the question again? Not great eyesight if you're a pilot of some sort like I suspect you are. So once more:
What is your involvement with Galway Airport?
For full disclosure, mine is: sometimes passenger, back when it was subsidised.

My involvement with Galway Airport was as a regular user of the Airport for the company I work for, its people like you with a very negative view of things that have brought this crazy closeing of the Airport, it should have kept going as a general aviation airport which would have also supported the regular jets that came in operating on behalf of the US companies in Galway, look at Sligo Airport they lost their flights but are now operating as a GA airport which is what is needed in a City the size of Galway, to shut it down totally is irresponsible by both of the Councils.

sgthighway

Storm 10 wrote: »

the regular jets that came in operating on behalf of the US companies in Galway

Can you name two of these companies?

Chicken1

sgthighway wrote: »

Can you name two of these companies?

This is getting way off the subject next thing you will want to know how much he earns, Galway Airport is closed and like other posters it should have been kept open, I saw two business jets at the Airport a few weeks ago don't know the company that owned them but there definitely was a need for that kind of business.

Aerohead

I saw those planes there and took a picture but I cant find it if I do I will post it, the shutting of the Airport for a City the size of Galway is just silly when you look at the likes of Abbeyshrule in the middle of the Country with only a Village beside it operating as a GA Airport.

bonzodog2

Whatever about the local demand etc, can somebody enlighten me as to why it was considered impossible to lengthen/widen the runway? Seems to me there's plenty of space both ends; roads could have been put into tunnels or even something like a level crossing, given the relative infrequency of flights.

Just my 0.02 euro, I'm not an aviation expert or anything.

Storm 10

Not sure of this but I heard that the Airport had bought some land to extend the runway but some of the other landowners wanted more cash and held up the planned extension

Dan_Solo

Storm 10 wrote: »

My involvement with Galway Airport was as a regular user of the Airport for the company I work for, its people like you with a very negative view of things that have brought this crazy closeing of the Airport,

Is that the only line you have?
Like I said earlier, why not build a satellite launch site at Galway Airport? Or a world class ice rink? Or a big game safari park? What do you mean they are bonkers ideas! It's people like you with that sort of attitude that stop us having all these things here!
So, just for clarity, you are saying that Galway Airport has a huge untapped source of potential passengers, but they're refusing to use Galway Airport because I'm on Boards.ie supposedly doom mongering?
Hilarious.

Dan_Solo

Chicken1 wrote: »

This is getting way off the subject next thing you will want to know how much he earns

Not at all, but he has nailed his colours to the mast. He was getting shedloads of free flights in and out of Galway Airport and now he has to drive a bit for it. At least he's now admitted he wasn't even a paying customer.
Oh, and if the best that can be found is "I think I have a photo of a private jet that landed some time a few weeks ago", then the place is totally mothballed and not even worth talking about as a going concern.

Chicken1

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Not at all, but he has nailed his colours to the mast. He was getting shedloads of free flights in and out of Galway Airport and now he has to drive a bit for it. At least he's now admitted he wasn't even a paying customer.
Oh, and if the best that can be found is "I think I have a photo of a private jet that landed some time a few weeks ago", then the place is totally mothballed and not even worth talking about as a going concern.

What is wrong with you how could he be getting shedloads of flights the company was paying for them, either way he was supporting the airport every time he flew out or in, it seems to me you are jealous of a people who flew from the airport on company expenses. I flew from Galway several times and my company paid for the flights what will you say to me about that.


You are acting like a child , throw out your bottle from the pram, at this stage its pointless responding to tripe

Redhairedguy

Christ almighty lads. This happens every time the topic of aviation comes up. Can we not have a bleedin' conversation related to Galway's air space that doesn't descend into bickering and sniping?

Everyone here already knows the score, so if someone has a personal grievance with another poster, hash it out over PM. This ain't the place for handbags at dawn!

Dan_Solo

Chicken1 wrote: »

What is wrong with you how could he be getting shedloads of flights the company was paying for them,

So he didn't get flights at all because the company was paying for them? What are you even saying here? Try the shift key and some of the numbers buttons or the bottom right of the keyboard for punctuation marks if you'd like to attempt to make any sense.

Chicken1 wrote: »

either way he was supporting the airport every time he flew out or in

No doubt about that, but he wasn't putting his hand in his own pocket all the same. I don't see anybody here clamouring to put their own hard earned on the line for some reason or other.

Chicken1 wrote: »

it seems to me you are jealous of a people who flew from the airport on company expenses. I flew from Galway several times and my company paid for the flights what will you say to me about that.

I'll say so did I. And I paid a few times myself too. Do you think Galway Airport could survive on corporate tickets all the time? Doubt it myself. Facts are he was getting lots of easy flights, now he doesn't. Big surprise he wants them back, eh!

Chicken1 wrote: »

You are acting like a child , throw out your bottle from the pram, at this stage its pointless responding to tripe

It's a rattle, not a bottle. Nope, didn't expect you to get that right either.

GekkePrutser

I don't see though how it matters whether people were paying themselves or travelling on the company's dime. How does it make their opinion more valuable or relevant based on whether they paid for the flights themselves? If anything companies tend to spend more on fares so they're the customers you want to have.

But personally I don't ever see the commercial flights returning. Not without an extension and that won't happen (there also wouldn't be space for a larger terminal / ramp parking space that these bigger planes would require).

But I think it would still be valuable as a GA airport and really offer something to the community something other than scheduled flights.

galwayrush

bonzodog2 wrote: »

Whatever about the local demand etc, can somebody enlighten me as to why it was considered impossible to lengthen/widen the runway? Seems to me there's plenty of space both ends; roads could have been put into tunnels or even something like a level crossing, given the relative infrequency of flights.

Just my 0.02 euro, I'm not an aviation expert or anything.

Apparently that idea was scuppered by AerArann because they didn't want competition at the airport from airlines with larger capacity planes.

Dan_Solo

GekkePrutser wrote: »

So basically you're admitting here that a commercial airport is a benefit to Galway businesses

Haha, well it might be a benefit to Galway businesses, but if you need a whopping taxpayer dole out before they'll bother, it isn't a benefit to GALWAY or Ireland at all!