Galway Airport - mega merge

biko

Links234 wrote: »

So, when will I be able to get the Galway-London flight again?!

This is the only thing I wonder too.

Unless it's for general use to get to UK I don't regard it as open, at least not in any real sense.
Glad some people have work and all of course.

snubbleste

Links234 wrote: »

So, when will I be able to get the Galway-London flight again?!

When we annex Co Clare and its airport.

Mrs OBumble

Chicken1 wrote: »

we have applied for the City of Culture sure an Airport would help.

Any airport makes a city cultured, how, exactly?

A decent concert venue would be a damn sight more useful, and get a lot more patronage.

JillyQ

Storm 10 wrote: »

Nope when Aer Aran operated they used ATR 72 aircraft which carried 72 pax and I flew to
Malaga in BAE 146 jet which carried 100 passengers

correct me if im wrong you also had a stop over in Waterford because they werent able to take off with the weight of a full tank of fuel.

happyoutscan

JillyQ wrote: »

correct me if im wrong you also had a stop over in Waterford because they werent able to take off with the weight of a full tank of fuel.

Still going to get you to Malaga without the hassle of flying out of Dublin.

JillyQ

happyoutscan wrote: »

Still going to get you to Malaga without the hassle of flying out of Dublin.

If it were me if prefer just to take off once and land once and get there faster, which you can do from shannon.

Iwannahurl

The General Manager was on GBFM within the past hour, describing the recent developments as "baby steps" towards something more substantial.

It appears the arrangement is that staff (ATC, fire crews etc) are deployed on an ad hoc basis. Some staff were hired by Weston after Galway Airport closed, and now they will divide their time between the two airports as needed. The Galway operator, Carnmore Aviation, is a subsidiary of the company operating the Weston private airport.

Lapin

Links234 wrote: »

So, when will I be able to get the Galway-London flight again?!

You can fly from Galway to London this afternoon if you like. As long as you hire your own plane like the one that came in from Germany yesterday.

As for waiting for a scheduled regular service - you'd be quicker walking.:(

bluecorp

Lapin and others, you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes 'commercial' aviation. I'm afraid it's a very typical view amongst Irish people. Commercial aviation is not just airliners. It's any flying that involves operating aircraft for hire. That includes General aviation not just airliners and scheduled services.

Most of the world's smaller airports cater solely to general aviation and make plenty of money doing so. In fact general aviation is bigger than airline aviation in the world as a whole. The downfall of the previous management in Galway airport was that they failed to realise this and with incredible hubris alienated the general aviation community, posturing as if they were a big airport while bankrupting themselves by borrowing massively to improve the facilities there.

There are any number of possible uses for the airport, skydiving was carried on successfully in 2013 and the only reason they moved out was because of the shutdown of the airport. They proved the market exists. The area around Galway bay is exceptionally beautiful particularly from the air. Tourist flights would be a popular attraction for visitors. With the long runway, relatively speaking, it's ideal for a flight school or people needing to rent hangar space. Not to mention visitors like that private jet. Imagine how much money someone who can afford a private jet would spend in the Galway area? Imagine multiples of those jets?

You might say this is all pie in the sky. Why wasn't this done before? That's because it hasn't been tried. An attempt was made with Weston but that suffers from the proximity to Dublin airport, local opposition, hostility from the local councils and bad decisions all round. Galway on the other hand is owned by the local councils, there will be no local opposition and Galway airport is situated close to many of the most visited tourist destinations in the country. Plus the infrastructure is there now to make it the best equipped general aviation airport in Ireland. Most of the other airfields around the country are basically that, fields with short runways.

Plus there are certain people out there right now who have recognised that general aviation has considerable untapped potential in this country. Look out for developments this coming year. I would be shocked if there isn't some kind of regular commercial flights carrying passengers in and out of the airport this year.

There may never be scheduled services to Galway airport again and frankly it would be better if there wasn't because that was the downfall of the airport last time.

So less of the negativity. It's a great asset to the city.

Storm 10

bluecorp wrote: »

Lapin and others, you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes 'commercial' aviation. I'm afraid it's a very typical view amongst Irish people. Commercial aviation is not just airliners. It's any flying that involves operating aircraft for hire. That includes General aviation not just airliners and scheduled services.

Most of the world's smaller airports cater solely to general aviation and make plenty of money doing so. In fact general aviation is bigger than airline aviation in the world as a whole. The downfall of the previous management in Galway airport was that they failed to realise this and with incredible hubris alienated the general aviation community, posturing as if they were a big airport while bankrupting themselves by borrowing massively to improve the facilities there.

There are any number of possible uses for the airport, skydiving was carried on successfully in 2013 and the only reason they moved out was because of the shutdown of the airport. They proved the market exists. The area around Galway bay is exceptionally beautiful particularly from the air. Tourist flights would be a popular attraction for visitors. With the long runway, relatively speaking, it's ideal for a flight school or people needing to rent hangar space. Not to mention visitors like that private jet. Imagine how much money someone who can afford a private jet would spend in the Galway area? Imagine multiples of those jets?

You might say this is all pie in the sky. Why wasn't this done before? That's because it hasn't been tried. An attempt was made with Weston but that suffers from the proximity to Dublin airport, local opposition, hostility from the local councils and bad decisions all round. Galway on the other hand is owned by the local councils, there will be no local opposition and Galway airport is situated close to many of the most visited tourist destinations in the country. Plus the infrastructure is there now to make it the best equipped general aviation airport in Ireland. Most of the other airfields around the country are basically that, fields with short runways.

Plus there are certain people out there right now who have recognised that general aviation has considerable untapped potential in this country. Look out for developments this coming year. I would be shocked if there isn't some kind of regular commercial flights carrying passengers in and out of the airport this year.

There may never be scheduled services to Galway airport again and frankly it would be better if there wasn't because that was the downfall of the airport last time.

So less of the negativity. It's a great asset to the city.

Very well put thank God there are people out there who can see light at the end of the tunnel, one thing about Galway you will always find people out there with blinkered eyes who can't see what could be done. You only have to look at Abbeysrule a runway in the middle of the Country in a tiny village and it's a thriving civil aviation and maintenance airfield.

Johnny901

bluecorp wrote: »

Lapin and others, you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes 'commercial' aviation. I'm afraid it's a very typical view amongst Irish people. Commercial aviation is not just airliners. It's any flying that involves operating aircraft for hire. That includes General aviation not just airliners and scheduled services.

Most of the world's smaller airports cater solely to general aviation and make plenty of money doing so. .

Great to see the airport getting back on its feet again. But to cover its costs its going to need a lot of executive jets and GA visiting. Hopefully whoever is on charge can do some marketing in the right places and get more traffic in

bluecorp

Johnny901 wrote: »

Great to see the airport getting back on its feet again. But to cover its costs its going to need a lot of executive jets and GA visiting. Hopefully whoever is on charge can do some marketing in the right places and get more traffic in

I would think the cost levels have dropped dramatically. So they should be in a much better position. Plus as the operator is a successful businessman then he would want to make some money out of it. I have no doubt a number of options are being explored.

gordongekko

bluecorp wrote: »

Plus as the operator is a successful businessman then he would want to make some money out of it.

I never understand the relevance of this comment. Surely all business owners are successful. If they aren't they will go out of business and no longer be classified as a businessman.

Storm 10

gordongekko wrote: »

I never understand the relevance of this comment. Surely all business owners are successful. If they aren't they will go out of business and no longer be classified as a businessman.

Sean Quinn was very successful as we're all of the so called business owners who brought the Country to its knees

bluecorp

gordongekko wrote: »

I never understand the relevance of this comment. Surely all business owners are successful. If they aren't they will go out of business and no longer be classified as a businessman.

If all businessmen were successful there would be no need to differentiate them from the unsuccessful.

I don't understand the relevance of your comment to the topic in hand.

apoeiguq3094y

While I feel for the ordinary workers that are losing jobs because of the failure of Galway airport, I will be happy when that place is finally razed to the ground.

The narrow-minded greedy b*st*rds in the chamber of commerce preferred to line their own pockets rather than support the proposed international airport in oranmore. Even though the current site is not suitable for any decent sized aircraft.

http://www.rte.ie/news/1999/0907/3256-airport/
http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg09166.html

gordongekko

bluecorp wrote: »

If all businessmen were successful there would be no need to differentiate them from the unsuccessful.

I don't understand the relevance of your comment to the topic in hand.

You are the one that raised the point. I don't see the relevance of the point you are trying to make. Whether they are successful business owners or not it not necessarily make them successfully here.

Aerohead

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

While I feel for the ordinary workers that are losing jobs because of the failure of Galway airport, I will be happy when that place is finally razed to the ground.
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Where does it say its closing, it only just re-opened, will you give it a chance, the negativity that is in this City astounds, me no wonder the rest of the Country can have Airports while the third biggest City is knocked.

apoeiguq3094y

Aerohead wrote: »

Where does it say its closing, it only just re-opened, will you give it a chance, the negativity that is in this City astounds, me no wonder the rest of the Country can have Airports while the third biggest City is knocked.

The airport isn't big enough to land a 737, it will never fit into the plans of most european carriers. There is probably a market for flights to some european hubs from Galway but since its so small it will never happen. Best thing that could happen would be for that site to close completely. Then interested parties could consider a more feasible site.

Even when it was operating with scheduled flights, public transport was non existent. It was cheaper for me to get a taxi from my house in Galway to the coach station and then a bus to dublin airport, rather than a taxi all the way to Galway airport.

Any money invested into Galway airport will just go down the drain.

Considering the tourist interests around Galway and the multinational companies etc, there is ample demand for passenger services. The current Galway airport has never and will never meet those demands. If the airport had been relocated to Oranmore, we would have an airport on already serviced public transport routes (bus and rail) it would have attracted custom from a huge surrounding area. The only reason that didn't happen is that the owners of airport thought about their own balance sheet. Hilarious considering that the idea of the chamber of commerce is to promote commercial activity in the region.

antoobrien

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

The airport isn't big enough to land a 737, it will never fit into the plans of most european carriers. There is probably a market for flights to some european hubs from Galway but since its so small it will never happen. Best thing that could happen would be for that site to close completely. Then interested parties could consider a more feasible site.

Cityjet fly turboprops from Dublin to London City, so that argument is not really valid.

Also once the M17/18 opens up there no reason why the runway couldn't be extended across the road (tunnel under it) apart from the ability to buy the property in its path (bonus points for killing the Ardaun plan).

apoeiguq3094y

antoobrien wrote: »

Cityjet fly turboprops from Dublin to London City, so that argument is not really valid.

Cityjet aren't famous for being a low fares model carrier. They used to do a route from Dublin to Cambridge, but it was always cheaper to fly ryanair to Stansted and then bus or train to cambridge. Easyjet or Ryanair will never fly there.

Also, carriers will never use up a slot at a busy airport with a small prop plane. There will never be a Galway flight to Heathrow, Gatwick, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc that would offer real connectivity.

The only options are Cityjet/stobart air who are usually more expensive.

antoobrien wrote: »

Also once the M17/18 opens up there no reason why the runway couldn't be extended across the road (tunnel under it) apart from the ability to buy the property in its path (bonus points for killing the Ardaun plan).

Its still not in a convenient location.
The management there has continusously made narrowminded decisions. Don't see why the tax payer should fund anything there any more. Glad to see it finished

Fair enough if it survives on its own, but I think its a lost cause at this stage.

I'd love to see proper air transport into Galway from european hubs and summer holiday destinations. Unlikely to happen out there.

Final straw for me was when they started charging people to drop off passengers.

antoobrien

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Cityjet aren't famous for being a low fares model carrier. They used to do a route from Dublin to Cambridge, but it was always cheaper to fly ryanair to Stansted and then bus or train to cambridge. Easyjet or Ryanair will never fly there.

Low fares & lots of ground travel time or direct flight at reasonably convenient hours, I know which I would choose. Hell the last time I'd to go to London I drove to Shannon (Heathrow) instead of overnighting or getting the silly o'clock bus to Dublin.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Also, carriers will never use up a slot at a busy airport with a small prop plane. There will never be a Galway flight to Heathrow, Gatwick, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc that would offer real connectivity.

There were direct flights to Amsterdam before.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Its still not in a convenient location.

And I thought we were having a serious discussion.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

The management there has continusously made narrowminded decisions. Don't see why the tax payer should fund anything there any more. Glad to see it finished

Fair enough if it survives on its own, but I think its a lost cause at this stage.

While the airport wasn't paying for itself directly, the taxes generated were covering the price of the subsidy.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

I'd love to see proper air transport into Galway from european hubs and summer holiday destinations. Unlikely to happen out there.

All they need is 700m-800m of runway to get an equivalent to the main runway in Cork or the second one in Dublin. Another 200m gets them to the same length as knock. Granted there'd have to be some property demolitions and minor road realignments but it's far from impossible (especially given the ridiculously low prices for agricultural land right now).

apoeiguq3094y

antoobrien wrote: »

Low fares & lots of ground travel time or direct flight at reasonably convenient hours, I know which I would choose. Hell the last time I'd to go to London I drove to Shannon (Heathrow) instead of overnighting or getting the silly o'clock bus to Dublin.

Well obviously not enough people shared your view about the usefulness of Galway airport or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Not everyone has the option of driving to the airport. Bus to Shannon from galway isnt that great.

All they need is 700m-800m of runway to get an equivalent to the main runway in Cork or the second one in Dublin. Another 200m gets them to the same length as knock. Granted there'd have to be some property demolitions and minor road realignments but it's far from impossible (especially given the ridiculously low prices for agricultural land right now).

If we are buying land and knocking houses for an airport, why not build it out on a greenfield/brownfield site?

I would fully support any new airport in Galway that was in a useful location with public transport connections and had proper capacity for medium haul flights.

Given the abysmal performance of the current site, I think a change would be good.

Aerohead

Actually there were two flights into Galway from Heathrow during two years of the Galway Races by British Airways who used a BAE146 four engine jet, there are pictures of it somewhere but I was at the Airport the day it came in. Now it was a charter flight but it came from London. And City Jet also flew in for the races in fact if you look at their facebook they had a lot going on when it was open.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/113626708666173/photos/a.115583111803866.15335.113626708666173/143578959004281/?type=1&theater

Link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Galway-Airport/113626708666173

antoobrien

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Well obviously not enough people shared your view about the usefulness of Galway airport or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

In 2007 Galway had 300,000 passengers. In 2008 the ar*e fell out of the world economy.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Not everyone has the option of driving to the airport. Bus to Shannon from galway isnt that great.

Flies in the face of it not being a convenient location.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

If we are buying land and knocking houses for an airport, why not build it out on a greenfield/brownfield site?

I would fully support any new airport in Galway that was in a useful location with public transport connections and had proper capacity for medium haul flights.

Given the abysmal performance of the current site, I think a change would be good.

Why would you move it? It's It's close to the rail line, close the the M6 & M17/18. A Taxi fare should cost no more than €15-€20 - a fare I've paid from the Northside when going to Dublin.

Your arguments are smacking of begrudgery based on the previous management and nonsense at this stage.

Aerohead

antoobrien In 2007 Galway had 300,000 passengers. In 2008 the ar*e fell out of the world economy.

And now that the economy appears to be on the up again no reason why it cannot be a success again as the saying went "the passengers have not gone away"

antoobrien

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Also, carriers will never use up a slot at a busy airport with a small prop plane. There will never be a Galway flight to Heathrow, Gatwick, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc that would offer real connectivity.

Actually after a little checking the runway in London city is 200m shorter than Galway and there are currently routes to both Amsterdam & Frankfurt

notharrypotter

While the airport wasn't paying for itself directly, the taxes generated were covering the price of the subsidy.

Care to post an official link to substantiate this?

Actually there were two flights into Galway from Heathrow during two years of the Galway Races by British Airways who used a BAE146 four engine jet

When was there ever a scheduled service to Heathrow?



Ad-hoc executive jet operations while of interest to plane spotters will not pay for much.
Aero club and light general aviation would pay even less.
Unless of course the operator is paying nothing to the owners.



Who owns the airport?
How much did they pay?

How much is the licencee paying them?

Bus to Shannon from galway isnt that great

Bus Eireann route 51
Every hour from 7:05 am to 8:05 pm and takes about 1 hour 45 min.

Low fares & lots of ground travel time or direct flight at reasonably convenient hours,

I would fully support any new airport in Galway that was in a useful location with public transport connections and had proper capacity for medium haul flights

Galway is currently well served by both Shannon/Knock and Dublin.

The motorway is being extended from Gort to Tuam.
When its done best guess is an hour or so to Shannon or Knock by car.

Doing any serious upgrades are a complete waste of Taxpayers and Ratepayers money.

When the facilities need repair who is going to foot the bill?

In 2007 Galway had 300,000 passengers. In 2008 the ar*e fell out of the worl economy

Bit of clarification needed.
How many were on the PSO route to Dublin?

In 1994 Aer Arann began the Dublin route supported by the state funded Public Service Obligation scheme. The route operated 3 times daily until state funding was withdrawn in 2011

When did the full length of the Galway/Dublin motorway open?
18 December 2009.

When taken together the entire operation became nonviable.

Actually after a little checking the runway in London city is 200m shorter than Galway and there are currently routes to both Amsterdam & Frankfurt

How much are the average fares?

London City population about 10 million.
Amsterdam City population about 1 million.
Frankfurt City population about 2 million.

Galway city population about 77,000.

Not comparing like with like but nice try though.

Out of curiosity who has surplus aircraft available to provide connections from Galway to Europe that can operate from 1300 m runway?
At a price that Joe Public is willing to pay.

"the passengers have not gone away

Actually they have voted with their wallets.
Services from Galway cannot be operated at a price/frequency/time that the ordinary person can/will pay.

Any type of passenger operations will require state support.
In 2014 Knock has 700,000 passengers and Shannon has 1.6 million.

Do you want the government to bankroll a loss making entity to the detriment of 2 struggling operations?

notharrypotter

Wikipedia Galway Airport
2007 309,302
2008 266,897


Wikipedia Knock Airport.
2007 556,357
2008 629,000

Main beneficiary of the closing of Galway was.....

antoobrien

notharrypotter wrote: »

Care to post an official link to substantiate this?

It was in local press several times over the years.