Galway Airport - mega merge

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Well if you keep moving the goalposts you can prove anything you like.

You seem to think only one factor in isolation is the key. There are many factors and if anyone is moving the goal posts its you. First comparing Galway to London, then to Knock.
The facts are simple. Galway was unable to stand on its own too feet without significant support, has a limitation on aircraft size and is withing a relatively close proximity to knock and shannon who have far more options available.

paconnors

Aerohead wrote: »

Listening to live ATC an hour ago and one French Jet and one UK aircraft had to divert from Galway due to foggy conditions , shows they are operating ok out there, cant do anything about the weather.

What frequency are you listening on?

Aerohead

paconnors wrote: »

What frequency are you listening on?

I was listening to Shannon Airport on live ATC

Links234

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but didn't Aer Arran do some sort of deal that kept Ryanair out of the airport?

JillyQ

Links234 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but didn't Aer Arran do some sort of deal that kept Ryanair out of the airport?

Ryanair only fly Boeing 737's which are to large to land at Galway. I don't know where you got that idea.

Aerohead

JillyQ wrote: »

Ryanair only fly Boeing 737's which are to large to land at Galway. I don't know where you got that idea.

When Ryanair were operating from Galway Airport they were using ATR Aircraft which are the same type Aer Arann used, I flew on Ryanair from Galway in the old days pity they are not here today.

JillyQ

Aerohead wrote: »

When Ryanair were operating from Galway Airport they were using ATR Aircraft which are the same type Aer Arann used, I flew on Ryanair from Galway in the old days pity they are not here today.

Im very well aware that. Ryanair made a decision to stop using propeller driven planes therefore pulling out of Galway Aer Lingus then came in & took over the root. Aer Arann came after that sometime in the mid nineties

antoobrien

Links234 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but didn't Aer Arran do some sort of deal that kept Ryanair out of the airport?

No that was years later.

Aerohead

Here is the info for you and I would ask the doubters to look how in 2007 Galway was the fastest growing Airport in Ireland, can happen again

The runway was extended to 1200 metres and completed on 2 March 1987. Although it could accommodate larger aircraft it remained unsuitable for jet airliners and continues to be entirely served by regional turboprop aircraft such as the ATR-42. The first jet arrived at the airport on 30 March from Ohio USA. It was a 12-seater Gulf-Stream II and many more small business jets used the airport. A terminal and runway lighting was completed by June of that year. In January 1988 Aer Lingus re-introduced the Dublin route, in March Ryanair launched a new route to London Luton and later re-routed it to Stansted. The two airlines went into a business war, Ryanair offering cheap flights direct to London and Aer Lingus to Heathrow, Amsterdam and Paris on selected days via Dublin. In 1991 due to business restructuring Ryanair withdrew their London service and Aer Lingus were soon to follow.

In 1994 Aer Arann began the Dublin route supported by the state funded Public Service Obligation scheme. The route operated 3 times daily until state funding was withdrawn in 2011 and the airline ceased services on the route. In September 2001 they launched a service to London Luton and the load factor by 2003 was at 73%. The one millionth passenger passed through the airport in April 2002. The airport was gaining popularity and in 2003 Aer Arann launched two more routes to Manchester and Edinburgh with two further routes to Birmingham and Lorient launched in 2004.

By 2007 Galway was officially the fastest growing airport in Ireland, fast exceeding international airports with passenger growth at 63% per annum at that time. 16 destinations were served directly, Bristol, Cardiff, Cork, Dublin, Edinburgh, Leeds Bradford, London Luton, Lorient, Manchester, Newcastle, Belfast City, Birmingham, Southampton, Bordeaux, Faro and Malaga. That year saw a record 309,000 passengers use the airport. The 2 millionth passenger also passed through that year. Aer Arann added a service to Amsterdam in 2008 which operated via Waterford Airport but was discontinued after a short period. In 2010 Manx2 added two services – Belfast International and Cork. These services were withdrawn in 2011.

dloob

Links234 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but didn't Aer Arran do some sort of deal that kept Ryanair out of the airport?

There was an offer to relocate the airport years ago to Oranmore lands owned by the department of defense.
It would have a had a runway large enough for 737s which would have allowed Ryanair to return.
Aer Arran was not impressed and the chamber rejected the offer.

WallyGUFC

They need to extend the runway for it to be fully commercially viable. Could they not have bought the land when things were going well and do this?
In it's current guise I'm sure it could be a successful airfield.

Storm 10

WallyGUFC wrote: »

They need to extend the runway for it to be fully commercially viable. Could they not have bought the land when things were going well and do this?
In it's current guise I'm sure it could be a successful airfield.

When the Airport was going well they purchased some land on the City side to extend the runway however some of the landowners put the price up and the deal fell through, if the purchases had gone ahead they would have been able to land 737s there

GekkePrutser

Aerohead wrote: »

The first jet arrived at the airport on 30 March from Ohio USA. It was a 12-seater Gulf-Stream II and many more small business jets used the airport.

I don't think that was quite the first jet - I've been told Steiner used it for his learjet while it was still his private field - on the old short runway (which is now the taxiway / apron). They must have been going through a lot of brake pads on that one

"Fastest Growing" is an easy goal to hit for a small airport by the way, if you have 1 plane in one year and 2 in the next year you have a 100% growth rate, beat that Dublin :P

That said I would love to see Galway operating commercial flights again. But I'd be happy with some healthy amounts of General Aviation activity. I'm surprised the parachuting crowd never came back, they were doing so much business 2 years ago.

JillyQ

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I don't think that was quite the first jet - I've been told Steiner used it for his learjet while it was still his private field - on the old short runway (which is now the taxiway / apron). They must have been going through a lot of brake pads on that one

"Fastest Growing" is an easy goal to hit for a small airport by the way, if you have 1 plane in one year and 2 in the next year you have a 100% growth rate, beat that Dublin :P

That said I would love to see Galway operating commercial flights again. But I'd be happy with some healthy amounts of General Aviation activity. I'm surprised the parachuting crowd never came back, they were doing so much business 2 years ago.

You are 100% right about steiner. There is a book called the history of flying in Galway it goes through the whole thing about oranmore v carnmore in the 1970's and exactly what happened and alot of the people involved init.

serfboard

More nonsense on this thread about Galway when an hour up the road and an hour down the road we have airports that can land 747s, plus we have a bus to Dublin Airport every half an hour ...

I'd like an airport right behind my house - it would be dead handy for me ... why doesn't the government spend a whole lot of everybody else taxes to get me what I want ... :rolleyes:

the untitled user

serfboard wrote: »

More nonsense on this thread about Galway when an hour up the road and an hour down the road we have airports that can land 747s, plus we have a bus to Dublin Airport every half an hour ...

An hour? More like two. Knock can be done in 1hr20, Shannon in 1hr10 if it's off peak and traffic is light. I use both airports regularly and I've been over 2hrs before getting back from both (to the west side of Galway admittedly). You can be as quick going to Dublin. And let's not even get started about the public transport connections, if I'm getting an evening flight in I can forget about getting a bus to Galway.

Before the crash, passenger numbers in the regional airports were doing quite well. Take for example Kerry airport, which handles a little over 300,000 passengers a year, it was posting a profit in 2009. So, as the economy returns to growth, and factor in the increased amount of visits to/from the latest generation of émigrés (my calculations put it at ~4000 from Galway city alone since the airport stopped doing commercial flights) along with the increase in tourism seen from the Wild Atlantic Way to the west of the country, it should be possible to make an airport for Galway viable again.

kippy

the untitled user wrote: »

An hour? More like two. Knock can be done in 1hr20, Shannon in 1hr10 if it's off peak and traffic is light. I use both airports regularly and I've been over 2hrs before getting back from both (to the west side of Galway admittedly). You can be as quick going to Dublin. And let's not even get started about the public transport connections, if I'm getting an evening flight in I can forget about getting a bus to Galway.

Before the crash, passenger numbers in the regional airports were doing quite well. Take for example Kerry airport, which handles a little over 300,000 passengers a year, it was posting a profit in 2009. So, as the economy returns to growth, and factor in the increased amount of visits to/from the latest generation of émigrés (my calculations put it at ~4000 from Galway city alone since the airport stopped doing commercial flights) along with the increase in tourism seen from the Wild Atlantic Way to the west of the country, it should be possible to make an airport for Galway viable again.

No. Not possible without significant state intervention.
Better to spend money on shannon and knock and upgrade public transport in and out of galway to all three airports.

the untitled user

kippy wrote: »

No. Not possible without significant state intervention.
Better to spend money on shannon and knock and upgrade public transport in and out of galway to all three airports.

Perhaps. There would need to be intervention on the capital side from the State for sure, but then the knock on effects from the presence of an airport tend to be huge (Cork estimate their airport with 2million passengers a year generates €700m+ for the local economy). And keep in mind that infrastructure in the west is so poor currently that the ROI tends to be quite significant (NRA estimate N18 Tuam-Gort bypass will generate a return of 7 times the investment for the local economy).

My own rough guesstimates based on current emigration levels mentioned, I reckon flights to/from the recently emigrated from Galway alone would have inflated passengar numbers for the country by at least 100,000, probably closer to twice that. And, as I mentioned above, it has been shown in the past that you don't need millions of passengers a year to operate a profitable airport.

kippy

the untitled user wrote: »

Perhaps. There would need to be intervention on the capital side from the State for sure, but then the knock on effects from the presence of an airport tend to be huge (Cork estimate their airport with 2million passengers a year generates €700m+ for the local economy).

My own rough guesstimates based on current emigration levels mentioned, I reckon flights to/from the recently emigrated from Galway alone would have inflated passengar numbers for the country by at least 100,000, probably closer to twice that. And, as I mentioned above, it has been shown in the past that you don't need millions of passengers a year to operate a profitable airport.

Who is to say that the increases in passenger numbers at both knock and shannon arent already contributing to the tourism and spend figures in galway city?
You cant in any way use those figures as you have no basis for them and even if those were the numbers one might suggest they already fly into knock or shannon......

Dan_Solo

the untitled user wrote: »

(Cork estimate their airport with 2million passengers a year generates €700m+ for the local economy).

For that to be true you would have to say none of those 2 million passengers would have come to Cork if they didn't have an airport. And this whole "catalytic benefit" thing is total guessery which coincidentally only appears to turn up in airport PR material...

lotusm

the untitled user wrote: »

An hour? More like two. Knock can be done in 1hr20, Shannon in 1hr10 if it's off peak and traffic is light. I use both airports regularly and I've been over 2hrs before getting back from both (to the west side of Galway admittedly). You can be as quick going to Dublin. And let's not even get started about the public transport connections, if I'm getting an evening flight in I can forget about getting a bus to Galway.

Before the crash, passenger numbers in the regional airports were doing quite well. Take for example Kerry airport, which handles a little over 300,000 passengers a year, it was posting a profit in 2009. So, as the economy returns to growth, and factor in the increased amount of visits to/from the latest generation of émigrés (my calculations put it at ~4000 from Galway city alone since the airport stopped doing commercial flights) along with the increase in tourism seen from the Wild Atlantic Way to the west of the country, it should be possible to make an airport for Galway viable again.

When the M17 is done from Gort to Tuam it will be 1 hour peak to either Knock and Shannon from Galway and also has the M6 to Dublin airport just over 2 hours. other counties would give there right arm for that sort infrastructure on their doorstep to be honest:rolleyes::P

the untitled user

kippy wrote: »

Who is to say that the increases in passenger numbers at both knock and shannon arent already contributing to the tourism and spend figures in galway city?

In the last month, two of my collegues at work here in the UK on separate occasions went to Dublin for a weekend break. They didn't even consider Galway when I suggested it to them because, and this shouldn't come as a surprise, you cannot travel to Galway on a Friday evening via public transport from the "local" airports.

You cant in any way use those figures as you have no basis for them and even if those were the numbers one might suggest they already fly into knock or shannon......

Of course not, those are rough back of the envelope calculations combining overall emigration rates with my own experiences and those of my other friends and relatives from Galway living here in the UK because, unfortunately, there aren't any official sources of information I can use to arrive at a figure more accurate than that. But still, I personally think that that anecdotal evidence is strong enough to suggest we could at least consider and evaluate it as a possibility and no one yet has offered me any sources of data that would suggest otherwise.

kippy

the untitled user wrote: »

In the last month, two of my collegues at work here in the UK on separate occasions went to Dublin for a weekend break. They didn't even consider Galway when I suggested it to them because, and this shouldn't come as a surprise, you cannot travel to Galway on a Friday evening via public transport from the "local" airports.



Of course not, those are rough back of the envelope calculations based on my own experiences and those of my other friends and relatives from Galway living here in the UK. But unfortunately, there aren't any official sources of information I can use to arrive at a figure more accurate than that. And I personally think that that anecdotal evidence is strong enough to suggest we could at least consider and evaluate it as a possibility.

More tourists tend to go to Dublin alright......
Your story probably highlights the need for better transport links rather than anything else.

Going by your logic tourism in Galway should have dramaticilly dropped since the airport closed. Think the opposite has been the case.

the untitled user

kippy wrote: »

More tourists tend to go to Dublin alright......
Your story probably highlights the need for better transport links rather than anything else.

Quite right. I'll be looking forward to the City bypass and the M17/M18 scheme. But you're completely overlooking the fact that wont fix the pulic transport issues. My life would still be far easier if I could fly to the city directly, even with those bypasses I still have to arrange my own transport if I'm coming over on after work flight. I'd personally benefit far more from a direct flight to Galway and I'm certainly not the only one, so I hope you can understand my enthusiasm for any revival of commercial flights from Galway to the UK.

kippy wrote: »

Going by your logic tourism in Galway should have dramaticilly dropped since the airport closed. Think the opposite has been the case.

That's actually really hard to estimate. The recession caused the country as a whole to go through a massive devaluation that made Ireland much more attrative to tourists. Plus, the promotions of the gathering and the wild atlantic west have been huge. Here in the UK and recently on a trip to Paris I was spammed everywhere where I went with images of Clare/Connemara/Mayo/Donegal, that wasn't happening in 2011.

Overall, estimates on the increase in tourism in the west is 10/20%, which is fantastic and long may it continue. But keep in mind those are long staying tourists usually coming for a week or more. We're still locked out of the City break market completely with the current state of the transport to/from Galway. And given how popular Galway is with weekend tourists from within the country, we're probably missing out on a massive market here.

kippy

the untitled user wrote: »

Quite right. I'll be looking forward to the City bypass and the M17/M18 scheme. But you're completely overlooking the fact that wont fix the pulic transport issues. My life would still be far easier if I could fly to the city directly, even with those bypasses I still have to arrange my own transport if I'm coming over on after work flight. I'd personally benefit far more from a direct flight to Galway and I'm certainly not the only one, so I hope you can understand my enthusiasm for any revival of commercial flights from Galway to the UK.



That's actually really hard to estimate. The recession caused the country as a whole to go through a massive devaluation that made Ireland much more attrative to tourists. Plus, the promotions of the gathering and the wild atlantic west have been huge. Here in the UK and recently on a trip to Paris I was spammed everywhere where I went with images of Clare/Connemara/Mayo/Donegal, that wasn't happening in 2011.

Overall, estimates on the increase in tourism in the west is 10/20%, which is fantastic and long may it continue. But keep in mind those are long staying tourists usually coming for a week or more. We're still locked out of the City break market completely with the current state of the transport to/from Galway. And given how popular Galway is with weekend tourists from within the country, we're probably missing out on a massive market here.

I was talking about basic public transport. ie a bus to galway from knock/shannon after arriving flights late on.

Hard to estimate alright but the numbers are up.

Probably? Who is to know.

And again we would all like an airport on our doorstep.

GekkePrutser

the untitled user wrote: »

Quite right. I'll be looking forward to the City bypass and the M17/M18 scheme. But you're completely overlooking the fact that wont fix the pulic transport issues. My life would still be far easier if I could fly to the city directly, even with those bypasses I still have to arrange my own transport if I'm coming over on after work flight. I'd personally benefit far more from a direct flight to Galway and I'm certainly not the only one, so I hope you can understand my enthusiasm for any revival of commercial flights from Galway to the UK.

I agree, at the moment I'm flying for work twice a month and it is really a drag.. The buses to Dublin are jampacked (often sitting next to someone with noisy music or kids) and it's a wasted 6 hours (return) of agony on every trip. Driving is not a great option either and Shannon/Knock don't have suitable flights to mainland Europe.

I really miss the time when I could fly to Dublin. 30 mins and you're there. I totally understand that the 19 euro fares Aer Arann was offering are not possible without govt intervention but I could get away with paying 150 return (which is cheaper than expensing the mileage + tolls / parking if I drive). I could see that being profitable for business flights. It is a big detractor for a frequent business traveller (and I'm not the only one).

Aer Arann / Stobart is doing returns to small airports in the UK from Dublin for 50-70 euro so Galway-Dublin for a decent price should be possible. They don't have government grants on those either.

?Cee?view

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I agree, at the moment I'm flying for work twice a month and it is really a drag.. The buses to Dublin are jampacked (often sitting next to someone with noisy music or kids) and it's a wasted 6 hours (return) of agony on every trip. Driving is not a great option either and Shannon/Knock don't have suitable flights to mainland Europe.

I really miss the time when I could fly to Dublin. 30 mins and you're there. I totally understand that the 19 euro fares Aer Arann was offering are not possible without govt intervention but I could get away with paying 150 return (which is cheaper than expensing the mileage + tolls / parking if I drive). I could see that being profitable for business flights. It is a big detractor for a frequent business traveller (and I'm not the only one).

Aer Arann / Stobart is doing returns to small airports in the UK from Dublin for 50-70 euro so Galway-Dublin for a decent price should be possible. They don't have government grants on those either.

While I agree that Shannon and Dublin are relatively accessible, the convenience and cost of a Galway option shouldn't be underestimated, particularly for corporate travel.

I travel to London about twice a month. A car to Shannon is €100 each way, so €50-€70 or even more to Dublin would definitely be attractive particularly as the available flight slots from Dublin are so much more extensive.

serfboard

the untitled user wrote: »

And let's not even get started about the public transport connections, if I'm getting an evening flight in I can forget about getting a bus to Galway.

This is true if you're talking about Knock or Shannon, but not Dublin. You can get a bus from Dublin until half-past midnight every night, and I doubt your flights are arriving later than that.

GekkePrutser wrote: »

I could get away with paying 150 return

Maybe you could, but I doubt everyone else could - and certainly not frequently enough to justify a regular scheduled service.

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Aer Arann / Stobart is doing returns to small airports in the UK from Dublin for 50-70 euro so Galway-Dublin for a decent price should be possible. They don't have government grants on those either.

Yes but remember that "small" airports in the UK are serving the likes of Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow - cities with substantially larger populations than Galway. Can you show me a Stobart Air flight that goes to a city in Britian of 70,000 people?

JillyQ

?Cee?view wrote: »

While I agree that Shannon and Dublin are relatively accessible, the convenience and cost of a Galway option shouldn't be underestimated, particularly for corporate travel.

I travel to London about twice a month. A car to Shannon is €100 each way, so €50-€70 or even more to Dublin would definitely be attractive particularly as the available flight slots from Dublin are so much more extensive.

I take it your talking about a car & driver?

?Cee?view

JillyQ wrote: »

I take it your talking about a car & driver?

Apologies. My post was unclear. Yes, car and driver, effectively a private taxi type set up.