Ned Stark - out of character? [spoilers book1/series1]

Dubhlinner

Just hit me now but I think Stark's sharp U-Turn from defiance of death to lying in an attempt to save his daughters was really inconsistent. I suppose because it was accompanied with the dramatic nature of his death but its really been overlooked

Before speaking to Varys he would have thought of every scenario and consequence of his actions. So the spider's plea would hardly have changed his mind.

He effectively committed treason to the the realm with that false admission. Could Stark really have that on his conscience?

I think it better they had have just had him killed by someone like Jaime at kings landing. Who thev could have claimed they did it because Ned plotted to kill Joffrey.

Mod Note - Careful with your title OP, some may not have read/seen series 1

Funglegunk

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Before speaking to Varys he would have thought of every scenario and consequence of his actions. So the spider's plea would hardly have changed his mind.

Are you sure we're talking about the same Ned Stark? :pac: He did it to save the lives of his daughters.

Sleepy

Ned has chosen love over his honour here, just as he's done with Jon in the past and we've just seen Season 2

Robb do with Jayne / Tulisa.

Ned also has the added incentive that his choice was supposed to involved him taking the black where he'd have been able to have continued being around to raise Jon at the wall and fulfilled his promise to tell Jon more about his mother.

stevenmu

Book 1 spoiler:

It wasn't very clear in the TV show, but from what I remember of the books he spent a long time locked in that dungeon without any light, little food or water, and little to no news of what was going on outside. I think it was somewhere in the region of 6 to 12 months. IIRC he was convinced that his daughters, and possibly whole family, had been killed. And after all that, he was still conflicted when it came to choosing between his honour and his freedom/family.

ArmaniJeanss

stevenmu wrote: »

Book 1 spoiler:

It wasn't very clear in the TV show, but from what I remember of the books he spent a long time locked in that dungeon without any light, little food or water, and little to no news of what was going on outside. I think it was somewhere in the region of 6 to 12 months. IIRC he was convinced that his daughters, and possibly whole family, had been killed. And after all that, he was still conflicted when it came to choosing between his honour and his freedom/family.

Nope, it definitely wasn't 6/12 months - it was around a week, two at most. He referred (in his pov chapter) to losing track of what 'day' it was, not what 'month' it was.

Also the timeline* of what was happening on the outside would suggest days rather than months.

Also the day before his confession Lord Varys had assured him that his family was still alive.

*e.g., Arya Book1 spoilers

flees from her dancing lesson with Sylvio Forel on the day Ned is arrested, hides in Flea Bottom for a while, then witnesses the execution and is taken North by Yoren. No way has she been 6 months in Flea Bottom unspotted by all the searchers, or if so theres a major plot hole in her story.

Syferus

I think it added huge weight to his death, after being so steadfast in honour he finally relented for the sake of his children and in the end it proved entirely fruitless.

That feeling of lost hope and betrayal made the final scene majestic.

stevenmu

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Nope, it definitely wasn't 6/12 months - it was around a week, two at most. He referred (in his pov chapter) to losing track of what 'day' it was, not what 'month' it was.

Also the timeline* of what was happening on the outside would suggest days rather than months.

Also the day before his confession Lord Varys had assured him that his family was still alive.

*e.g., Arya Book1 spoilers

flees from her dancing lesson with Sylvio Forel on the day Ned is arrested, hides in Flea Bottom for a while, then witnesses the execution and is taken North by Yoren. No way has she been 6 months in Flea Bottom unspotted by all the searchers, or if so theres a major plot hole in her story.

I was thinking that maybe you were right, but then the bit you added about Arya reminded me that

she definitely spent a lot time hiding in Flea Bottom. The book talks a lot about how she struggled to survive at first, and then about the different skills she learned over a period of time. It was definitely a good few weeks if not quite 6 months. Don't forget also that in the time she was there and Ned was in the dungeon, Rob raised his army, marched south, and engaged the Lannisters a few times (including capturing Jaime). That definitely would have taken a month or two, if not more.

It's very hard to pin down times in GoT, I'm really just guessing from clues

ArmaniJeanss

Seems we were both a bit off.
Theres a very exhaustive timeline that can be downloaded in an excel in this post
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/31411-global-timeline/
and they reckon 37 days from his arrest in Ned Chapter 15 to his death in Arya 5.


Musr re-read that Arya chapter to see how she avoided capture for 37 days.

Sleepy

Shame that's never been updated with ADwD or corrected, it's a hell of a lot of the work done but not perfect by any means.

Mickeroo

Speaking of being out of character. I find the hound seems very different in the series to the books. In the books he's quite sarcy, loud and laughs a lot but in the series he hardly says a word sometimes. I guess its down to the actor's interpretation more than anything.

Also, I wonder what the thinking was behind having Baelish tell Sansa his story

rather than himself and also not have him compete in the Hand's Tournament.

. I think I actually prefer his demeanour in the series though.

Syferus

This season had a serious lack of Littlefinger, outside Peter Dinklige as Tyrion he's probably the best actor on the show.

mewso

Mickeroo wrote: »

rather than himself and also not have him compete in the Hand's Tournament.

Well my memory is crap but I was sure

the Hound did not take part in the hand's tourney

in the book. I also find his character in the show not that far from the book. He was quiet enough in the book imo apart from the odd outburst.

Mickeroo

mewso wrote: »

Well my memory is crap but I was sure

the Hound did not take part in the hand's tourney

in the book. I also find his character in the show not that far from the book. He was quiet enough in the book imo apart from the odd outburst.

Only read the chapter a couple of days ago, he definitely

took part in it, think he knocked Jamie Lannister out of it(not sure though)

. He's always described as laughing out loud a lot in the book, taking a lot more glee from sansa's fear of him and that.

minidazzler

I wouldn't consider it to be out of character at all for Ned to put family before his honour. He could have been under the impression that Sansa and Arya would be hurt or worse, remember, he would have assumed that they had both been taken, probably not counting on Arya's resourcefulness.

The Tully words are Family, Duty, Honour. And though they aren't Neds words him taking care of Jon who lets face it,

may or may not be his bastard

, shows all three, but foremost is Family. He loses some honour in the eyes of other men after all. Ned would do anything for his family.

When he is about to reveal the truth he uses the time he has to first secure the safety of his daughters, that wastes a night and a day while the preparations are made which ultimately leads to him being caught.