Mother anger at IRA medals given by GAA

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

then why did so many join the British army? Why were the Irish government openly bias in their "neutrality"? Other than those that joined the army, why did so many risk their lives by moving to British cities to work in factories and hospitals?

Please, you had the british openly threatening invasion on the one hand and the fact that Ireland is an island, which needed to trade and import essential supplies from the US on the other. Irish people going to work in britain, yes tht's something that only ever happened during world war 2.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Other than a few idiots, no one saw the British as bad as the nazis.

If you say so.

The savagery of the British response was inflated by two factors. First, the settler regime in Kenya was, even before the insurgency, probably the most openly racist one in the British empire

Britain supporting racists? Oh dear, this is starting to sound familiar.

[T]here is something peculiarly chilling about the way colonial officials behaved, most notoriously but not only in Kenya, within a decade of the liberation of the [Nazi] concentration camps and the return of thousands of emaciated British prisoners of war from the Pacific. One courageous judge in Nairobi explicitly drew the parallel: Kenya's Belsen, he called one camp.

I guess that judge must be an idiot too.

[E]lectric shock was widely used, as well as cigarettes and fire. Bottles (often broken), gun barrels, knives, snakes, vermin, and hot eggs were thrust up men's rectums and women's vaginas. The screening teams whipped, shot, burned and mutilated Mau Mau suspects, ostensibly to gather intelligence for military operations and as court evidence.

I take no pleasure in highlighting this fred, but you should know what your little flag there stands for. Not that I'd expect you to be aware of these facts.

And hey, lets not stop at Africa, idiots everywhere it seems:

The UK British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) has produced a book and a lavish, 6-part TV series called “The Story of India”. However the 6th episode that deals with India under the British manages to completely ignore horrendous, repeated British-imposed atrocities on a scale of death greater than that of the World War 2 (WW2) Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million dead, 1 in 6 dying from deprivation), most notably the 1769-1770 Bengal Famine (10 million dead), the WW2 Bengal Famine (6-7 million dead) and the British India Holocaust in general that was associated with 1.8 billion excess Indian deaths in the period 1757-1947.

...

Winston Churchill (1953) (in an egregious act of Nobel Prize-winning Holocaust Denial in which he totally wipes out any mention of the 6-7 million Indians he deliberately starved to death in 1943-1945): “No great portion of the world population was so effectively protected from the horrors and perils of the World War as were the peoples of Hindustan. They were carried through the struggle on the shoulders of our small Island.”

Onwards and upwards, eh, plenty of people getting high in China after the british empire acted like any petty street drug dealer. Not much to be proud of there. In fact I'd say the british could have taught the nazis a thing or two - namely if you're going to act genocidal, do it far away from home against people with far weaker technology than you.

You don't have to like it, these are just the sorry facts.

Ms.M

Happyman42 wrote: »

The GAA has always been about and invested in the community and long may it be so, it's what makes it unique and is probably the only way it will survive.
A consequence of that is that a GAA club in the PSNI or in the old RUC (they did exist) will have a different ethos than one in Newry or one in Trinity College.

There are far more constructive ways to be invested in the community than putting dead men on medals. That achieves nothing. There are plenty of values commonly held in any community, the GAA shouldn't be "invested" in ideologies that are not communal.
Politicised affiliations are not needed for its survival and actually put some parents off. We're talking about sport, not religion. The "ethos" of individual clubs should not be based on or associated in anyway with whether or not you support the IRA imho.

Happyman42

rn wrote: »

Fair enough I'm calling him a terrorist, call him a freedom fighter. Doesn't really matter. The point is offence is an emotion interpreted by the observer of an event. If none were intended, this dead IRA chap wouldn't be on the medals!

Some people are offended by the National Anthem, do we change that or ban it from the GAA? Some people are offended by the use of the Irish language, some are offended by playing soccer or rugby. Where is the line?
As Stephen Fry says of political correctness, 'You're offended, so what, what has that got to do with me and what I believe in?'

What are his club credentials that they are celebrating? Did he form the club? Was he on the first championship winning team? Was he chairman, secretary, treasurer? Look call a spade a spade, This guy is only being commemorated in sport for being shot by the British army. BTW I'm not saying it wasn't tragic or that it shouldn't be commemorated or remembered by the community - but I am saying not in the GAA, not in sport - as you are inclined to mark me as... by labelling me partitionist - politics shouldn't come into it.

The club would probably dispute that, as is their right.

I don't think they are - rules 1.11 and 1.12 are quiet clear. This club could be suspended for this. Whether the powers that be have the balls to do anything, that is another story. My guess is they will hope it goes away, with time. Parish leagues in many club are rarely run every year with consistency.

I don't think the GAA can do anything about this, as there is nothing in it that says the club is celebrating his membership or activity as an IRA member. They would have to look deep into their souls if that was the case.
The GAA is unique in that eligibility for teams and county mean you have to be a resident of the parish or a parish within the county, is what I mean't. There is a fascinating programme from the Open University I am trying to find where an English ad agency where employed by Croke Park to make a series of ads for the organisation. It shows the employees researching the game and coming over for hurling and gaelic matches. They came up with a series of ads that focussed in on the above, deserted villages and towns on a final day and all the trees and animals leaning in to listen to the match on a radio on a window sill. Captured the essence of the GAA in my mind. Brilliant ads, I can never understand why the GAA didn't use them.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Please, you had the british openly threatening invasion on the one hand and the fact that Ireland is an island, which needed to trade and import essential supplies from the US on the other. Irish people going to work in britain, yes tht's something that only ever happened during world war 2.


If you say so.

Britain supporting racists? Oh dear, this is starting to sound familiar.


I guess that judge must be an idiot too.


I take no pleasure in highlighting this fred, but you should know what your little flag there stands for. Not that I'd expect you to be aware of these facts.

And hey, lets not stop at Africa, idiots everywhere it seems:


Onwards and upwards, eh, plenty of people getting high in China after the british empire acted like any petty street drug dealer. Not much to be proud of there. In fact I'd say the british could have taught the nazis a thing or two - namely if you're going to act genocidal, do it far away from home against people with far weaker technology than you.

You don't have to like it, these are just the sorry facts.

I know the facts Doc, but please don't compare Britain to the Nazis, like I said, only an idiot would think that.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

The same reason why most join armies including the native British, to get out of poor living conditions, I have known several veterans from that era and all of them cite that as their reasons for joining up, no ideology, no particular allegience, purely an economic decision.
And our 'neutrality' was most definitely biased towards the British.

I know several as well, all joined up because they wanted to fight the nazis.

Then there are the 5000 men who deserted from the Irish army to fight, were they not paid in the Irish army?

The old "They did it to escape poverty" excuse is just one used to justify Ireland's part in the empire, that's all.

Sunnyisland

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know several as well, all joined up because they wanted to fight the nazis.

Then there are the 5000 men who deserted from the Irish army to fight, were they not paid in the Irish army?

The old "They did it to escape poverty" excuse is just one used to justify Ireland's part in the empire, that's all.

I would recommend you watch or read Strumpet city.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know the facts Doc, but please don't compare Britain to the Nazis, like I said, only an idiot would think that.

My point was that plenty of others have compared them to nazis, and supplied ample historical reasons to justify this perspective. And there's more, much more, that's just the stuff I could be bothered to find offhand, without even referencing the history of Ireland.

The picture that emerges is of a country which took advantage of the tremendous technological leaps enabled by the wars in Europe to go forth and rape, murder, pillage, and exploit as many others as it could. Really, look at this map. You can see exactly where machine guns and howitzers are developed in the late 19th century and early 20th, before that the "empire" was a smallish collection of squabbling demesnes scattered hither and yon.

You can even see where the natives managed to get their hands on the same weapons, causing the complete and dramatic collapse of the whole shebang, despite the best efforts by atrocity mongers to terrify the locals into submission. Largest empire in history my muscular buttocks. The mass destruction of documents even has uncanny parallels.

I actually feel sick looking at the story writ large. At no point have I ever asked you to take my word for it, all is supported and referenced.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know several as well, all joined up because they wanted to fight the nazis.

Then there are the 5000 men who deserted from the Irish army to fight, were they not paid in the Irish army?

The old "They did it to escape poverty" excuse is just one used to justify Ireland's part in the empire, that's all.

It always amazes me how the cannon fodder, those on the front line, almost to a man came from the impoverished and lower classes, very idealistic lot, eh?
Siegfried Sasson pondered the same.


Do you have an independent thought of your own in your head, Fred? :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

It always amazes me how the cannon fodder, those on the front line, almost to a man came from the impoverished and lower classes, very idealistic lot, eh?
Siegfried Sasson pondered the same.

probably because 95% of people actually come from the working classes.:rolleyes:

And er, Siegfried Sassoon wasn't exactly poor himself.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Do you have an independent thought of your own in your head, Fred? :rolleyes:

Yes, balanced ones, not ones created by political blindness and hatred.

You?

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

My point was that plenty of others have compared them to nazis, and supplied ample historical reasons to justify this perspective. And there's more, much more, that's just the stuff I could be bothered to find offhand, without even referencing the history of Ireland.

The picture that emerges is of a country which took advantage of the tremendous technological leaps enabled by the wars in Europe to go forth and rape, murder, pillage, and exploit as many others as it could. Really, look at this map. You can see exactly where machine guns and howitzers are developed in the late 19th century and early 20th, before that the "empire" was a smallish collection of squabbling demesnes scattered hither and yon.

You can even see where the natives managed to get their hands on the same weapons, causing the complete and dramatic collapse of the whole shebang, despite the best efforts by atrocity mongers to terrify the locals into submission. Largest empire in history my muscular buttocks. The mass destruction of documents even has uncanny parallels.

I actually feel sick looking at the story writ large. At no point have I ever asked you to take my word for it, all is supported and referenced.

so what?

what actually is the point you are trying to make. Are you seriously trying to claim that no one has ever suggested that the British empire was bad? are you trying to be some sort of hero telling the world about the nasty Brits (Because lets face it, it is a bit of an obsession of yours for some reason).

All you are doing is completely off topic trolling to be honest.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so what?

what actually is the point you are trying to make. Are you seriously trying to claim that no one has ever suggested that the British empire was bad? are you trying to be some sort of hero telling the world about the nasty Brits (Because lets face it, it is a bit of an obsession of yours for some reason).

All you are doing is completely off topic trolling to be honest.

Hey, you were the one that responded to my comment. You don't like britain being compared to nazis, you shouldn't have acted like them.

Unavailable for Comment

SocSocPol wrote: »

Just read this story on the BBC, I couldn't believe that even the GAA would be so insensitive as to give kids medals with the picture of an IRA terrorist on them to 12 year old kids!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18322046

In 2008 and without any fanfare, the British Government paid for the conservation and restoration work to the statue of Cromwell that stands in a prominent position outside Westminster Parliament to "commemorate" the 350th anniversary of the genocidal maniac's death.

One can't but wonder is it more insensitive for a small, parochial sports club to "honour" a man, shot repeatedly while in all probability unarmed or a national parliament to "honour" a man long recognised in Ireland and Scotland as a brutal, ethnic cleansing, terrorist.

It is also worth noting that in the 1890's when the statue was originally mooted, Parliament refused to fund it as it was considered to be too divisive and unseemly to place it where the Scottish and Irish MPs would have to see it. Fast forward a hundred odd years and the Government is proud of it's contribution to this savage's exaltation.

I've searched Google for the BBC articles and on Boards for the many threads that must have condemned this hideousness at the time but so far no luck.

Happyman42

Ms.M wrote: »

There are far more constructive ways to be invested in the community than putting dead men on medals. That achieves nothing. There are plenty of values commonly held in any community, the GAA shouldn't be "invested" in ideologies that are not communal.
Politicised affiliations are not needed for its survival and actually put some parents off. We're talking about sport, not religion. The "ethos" of individual clubs should not be based on or associated in anyway with whether or not you support the IRA imho.

To be quite honest with you Ms.M, in an ideal world I would again largely agree with you, but I think you and others are blithely ignoring the unique position the GAA found itself in, in the North. They got politicised because of what the GAA is, Crossmaglen being a case in point, Casement Park, the silly antagonising of patrons crossing the border to attend games, actual harrassment of people just for being members.
As normalisation continues you will see it becoming less politicised, but it won't be achieved by forcing or condemming people into bolt holes. The Orange Order face the same challenges.
In the North the GAA helped people to maintain their cultural identities, it would be wrong, totally wrong of the GAA to needlessly sunder them for the sake of political correctness and in the face of wrongheaded hysteria.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Hey, you were the one that responded to my comment. You don't like britain being compared to nazis, you shouldn't have acted like them.

I've never acted like a Nazi in my life Doc.

Oh, sorry, you are holding me responsible for the actions of my country.

Fratton Fred

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

In 2008 and without any fanfare, the British Government paid for the conservation and restoration work to the statue of Cromwell that stands in a prominent position outside Westminster Parliament to "commemorate" the 350th anniversary of the genocidal maniac's death.

One can't but wonder is it more insensitive for a small, parochial sports club to "honour" a man, shot repeatedly while in all probability unarmed or a national parliament to "honour" a man long recognised in Ireland and Scotland as a brutal, ethnic cleansing, terrorist.

It is also worth noting that in the 1890's when the statue was originally mooted, Parliament refused to fund it as it was considered to be too divisive and unseemly to place it where the Scottish and Irish MPs would have to see it. Fast forward a hundred odd years and the Government is proud of it's contribution to this savage's exaltation.

I've searched Google for the BBC articles and on Boards for the many threads that must have condemned this hideousness at the time but so far no luck.

what, you think Cromwell was a saint in England then?

He essentially brought democracy to England and his statue is there as a reminder to the monarchy what happens if you get too big for your boots.

Savage bastard yes, but also a very important character in British history

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've never acted like a Nazi in my life Doc.

Oh, sorry, you are holding me responsible for the actions of my country.

Not at all, but I do have to wonder why you keep getting involved in these threads with what may as well be a swastika, according to many already referenced, as your avatar.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Not at all, but I do have to wonder why you keep getting involved in these threads with what may as well be a swastika, according to many already referenced, as your avatar.

the Union Flag is like a swastika? oh please.....

Why do you keep getting involved? (although I think I know the answer)

Patrick Cleburne

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

In 2008 and without any fanfare, the British Government paid for the conservation and restoration work to the statue of Cromwell that stands in a prominent position outside Westminster Parliament to "commemorate" the 350th anniversary of the genocidal maniac's death.

One can't but wonder is it more insensitive for a small, parochial sports club to "honour" a man, shot repeatedly while in all probability unarmed or a national parliament to "honour" a man long recognised in Ireland and Scotland as a brutal, ethnic cleansing, terrorist.

It is also worth noting that in the 1890's when the statue was originally mooted, Parliament refused to fund it as it was considered to be too divisive and unseemly to place it where the Scottish and Irish MPs would have to see it. Fast forward a hundred odd years and the Government is proud of it's contribution to this savage's exaltation.

I've searched Google for the BBC articles and on Boards for the many threads that must have condemned this hideousness at the time but so far no luck.

The UK is a Protestant nation, Oliver Cromwell was a Protestant hero. Don't see the big deal.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the Union Flag is like a swastika? oh please.....

I never said that reflected my own personal opinions, although there are plenty who do hold that opinion, and given history, it may very well be understandable why they feel that way.

Ms.M

Nazis = Evil
The Bristish Empire = Evil
Cromwell = Evil

But the GAA..... isn't that what you're meant to be talking about?
I'm going to go now. This thread is far too serious.
Time for some doleful camogie-playing in the rain.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I never said that reflected my own personal opinions, although there are plenty who do hold that opinion, and given history, it may very well be understandable why they feel that way.

ok, I'll change it.

I have an England one somewhere;)

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

probably because 95% of people actually come from the working classes.:rolleyes:

Which was my point. Armies where always built on the stomachs of the poor? Do you think conscription would work in these modern days of free availability of information and more educated masses? I think not.

Yes, balanced ones, not ones created by political blindness and hatred.

You?

Funny how 'your balance' always finds you on one side of the argument! :rolleyes:

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ok, I'll change it.

I have an England one somewhere;)

Ah now while I respect your tacit acceptance that the union jack and the swastika have a lot more in common than most might feel comfortable with, it wouldn't sit right if you were to change on my account. Still, whatever suits yourself.

Happyman42

Ms.M wrote: »

Nazis = Evil
The Bristish Empire = Evil
Cromwell = Evil

But the GAA..... isn't that what you're meant to be talking about?
I'm going to go now. This thread is far too serious.
Time for some doleful camogie-playing in the rain.

'mon the lassies!

Spread

getz wrote: »

i find it hard to understand people who support republican terrorist organisations who have shot over 85 fellow republicans in northern ireland over the last three years,40 of them in derry alone,

In probably the same way that you fail to understand why there are so many suicides in the British Armed Forces - due to bullying

getz

Spread wrote: »

In probably the same way that you fail to understand why there are so many suicides in the British Armed Forces - due to bullying

latest new there is one every day in the american armed forces,a bit close to home ?

Unavailable for Comment

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what, you think Cromwell was a saint in England then?

He essentially brought democracy to England and his statue is there as a reminder to the monarchy what happens if you get too big for your boots.

Savage bastard yes, but also a very important character in British history

No he didn't.

There was already a legitimate parliament in England before his rise. In fact one could argue that Cromwell's support for Pride's Purge was in essence nothing but an armed coup against both Royalty and the elected government of the day. His rambling religious address in support of Thomas Brook also points to his disdain for any legal methodology.

What happens after Charles's execution has nothing to do with democracy. Cromwell's insignificance in the events of the day are telling by the way he was only the third to sign the King's death warrant.

Afterward his time as "Lord Protector" marks his becoming to all intents and purposes a King as evidenced by him awarding peerages. Basically the pig became a man and the man became a pig.

However without even addressing the historical insignificance of the man outside of his penchant for butchery, there are any number of warlords and savage bastards that should not be honoured no matter what their impact on history. Remembered yes. Honoured no.

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

The UK is a Protestant nation, Oliver Cromwell was a Protestant hero. Don't see the big deal.

Many Scots, Northern Irish and yes, English would beg to differ. However it is striking that you can't see the parallels between the commemoration of Cromwell and the commemoration of any other terrorist you care to mention.

true

Sporting clubs and organisations should distance themselves from honouring terrorists / people who broke the law and murdered people. Its a very bad example to give to the children who get the medals.

If the boot was on the other foot and some terrorist - say a UVF killer - was put on a medal of a soccer club in east Belfast, imagine the outcry then. But bad and all as some people would claim other sports are, at least they do not honour terrorists. The GAA are alone in this. Shame on them, as there are many decent people in the GAA who would not approve of giving IRA medals to children.

Happyman42

true wrote: »

Sporting clubs and organisations should distance themselves from honouring terrorists / people who broke the law and murdered people. Its a very bad example to give to the children who get the medals.

If the boot was on the other foot and some terrorist - say a UVF killer - was put on a medal of a soccer club in east Belfast, imagine the outcry then. But bad and all as some people would claim other sports are, at least they do not honour terrorists. The GAA are alone in this. Shame on them, as there are many decent people in the GAA who would not approve of giving IRA medals to children.

Like many who held up progress in the North, you haven't taken on board one word anybody has said, instead you revert again and again to the same old mantra. Good luck and best of luck up there on the high moral ground. There should be plenty to talk to, but beware, sooner or later you will come across somebody equally entrenched in their own moral superiority. Then that height won't be big enough for the both of you!

fianna saor

true wrote: »

Sporting clubs and organisations should distance themselves from honouring terrorists / people who broke the law and murdered people. Its a very bad example to give to the children who get the medals.

If the boot was on the other foot and some terrorist - say a UVF killer - was put on a medal of a soccer club in east Belfast, imagine the outcry then. But bad and all as some people would claim other sports are, at least they do not honour terrorists. The GAA are alone in this. Shame on them, as there are many decent people in the GAA who would not approve of giving IRA medals to children.

so would you like a lot of gaa clubs to change their names and possibly the nmes of their grounds?

true

fianna saor wrote: »

so would you like a lot of gaa clubs to change their names and possibly the nmes of their grounds?

nobody mentined that , and that is not what this thread is about. If you read back through this thread you will see this thread is about a "Mothers anger at IRA medals given by GAA". I think it would be nice if the gaa club desisted from handing out such medals, don't you? ...especially seeing as the other side up there do not hand out such medals of their "heroes" to their kids.

Time to move on, peace process and all that;)

Spread

Be a member of the bleeding hearts society by all means but please stop being so boringly repetitive. You have added nothing to the discussion except bleeting the same mantra over and over again.

true

Spread wrote: »

In probably the same way that you fail to understand why there are so many suicides in the British Armed Forces

nobody mentioned suicides other than you, but now that you have, can you back up your claim / insinuation that the suicide rate is higher in the armed forces than outside it? Or is it more of your imagination?

true

Spread wrote: »

Be a member of the bleeding hearts society by all means but please stop being so boringly repetitive.

I was merely answering the question posed by fianna, which was not asked before. Now mind your own business.

Happyman42

Spread wrote: »

Be a member of the bleeding hearts society by all means but please stop being so boringly repetitive. You have added nothing to the discussion except bleeting the same mantra over and over again.

Absolutely!

Time he/she, at the very least, sat down and read the document we all signed up to,

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/peace/docs/agreement.htm

which states very clearly in the section on RIGHTS, SAFEGUARDS AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, that everbody is entitled to:

the right of free political thought;

and

12.It is recognised that victims have a right to remember as well as to contribute to a changed society.

We in the south have the right to think whatever we want of Pearse or Connolly,Wolfe Tone or Michael Collins. The people of that community and club have the same rights. To them, the contents of the Agreement where achieved by members of their communities. Imagine if some elusive, probably fictitious mother attempted to stop us commemorating the men and women who founded this state? :rolleyes:

Sound of Silence

true wrote: »

nobody mentioned suicides other than you, but now that you have, can you back up your claim / insinuation that the suicide rate is higher in the armed forces than outside it? Or is it more of your imagination?

You're asking someone to backup a claim?

Jaysus, that's sweet coming from you!

true

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You're asking someone to backup a claim?

yes, because its such an unusual claim, and there should be statistics to back it up

InTheTrees

DB10 wrote: »

At the end of the day who really cares no harm done.

huh?

Er... the story is " Mother anger at IRA medals given by GAA"

So someone does care and harm has been done.

SocSocPol

InTheTrees wrote: »

huh?

Er... the story is " Mother anger at IRA medals given by GAA"

So someone does care and harm has been done.

Yes but according to the pira apologists on this thread the Mother who made the complaint doesn't exist, everybody in the six counties is an avid supporter of the pira murder campaign, and the two little boys murdered by the pira in Warrington had it coming to them because after all, they were colonialist brits!

Nodin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Yes but according to the pira apologists on this thread the Mother who made the complaint doesn't exist, everybody in the six counties is an avid supporter of the pira murder campaign, and the two little boys murdered by the pira in Warrington had it coming to them because after all, they were colonialist brits!

Good to see you're avoiding adding to the hysterical tone there.

InTheTrees

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I never said that reflected my own personal opinions, although there are plenty who do hold that opinion, and given history, it may very well be understandable why they feel that way.

LOL!

A rhetorical masterpiece.

While plenty of people may think every country in Europe except the Republic of Ireland is Nazi, plenty of other people think thats complete and utter made up nonsense.

InTheTrees

SocSocPol wrote: »

Yes but according to the pira apologists on this thread the Mother who made the complaint doesn't exist,

Ah, doesnt exist?

But she's also a nazi right?

InTheTrees

Doc Ruby wrote: »

My point was that plenty of others have compared them to nazis, and supplied ample historical reasons to justify this perspective. .

Again with the "plenty of people"...

Who are these "plenty"?

Personally I find it a little fcuking disrespectful of the millions of victims of (german) Nazi violence to have you and your half baked knowledge of history throwing out bullsh*t like this.

I'd like to see how you'd get on with a star sewn on your coat and some stripy PJ's...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Happyman42

InTheTrees wrote: »

Again with the "plenty of people"...

Who are these "plenty"?

Personally I find it a little fcuking disrespectful of the millions of victims of (german) Nazi violence to have you and your half baked knowledge of history throwing out bullsh*t like this.

I'd like to see how you'd get on with a star sewn on your coat and some stripy PJ's...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Somebody needs to read alternative histories, preferally those not written by the winners. Ever get annoyed by match reports that are written by the winning team's PRO?

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Somebody needs to read alternative histories, preferally those not written by the winners. Ever get annoyed by match reports that are written by the winning team's PRO?

So the holocaust didn't happen, or is it just an exaggeration?

Doc Ruby

true wrote: »

I was merely answering the question posed by fianna, which was not asked before. Now mind your own business.

Bit rich coming from someone who tries to hijack every thread he stumbles across into an anti-Irish hatefest. Check out this beauty, in a thread about racism in Poland, which included some very insightful commentary from Polish people, in hops fair-and-balanced here with the below:

usually its foreigners who ask why has Ireland such a problem with racists, not the other way round.

We've exported our racists to kill people in pubs and shopping centres overseas, after all

Cue thread derailment and lockage. Great.

InTheTrees wrote: »

LOL!

A rhetorical masterpiece.

While plenty of people may think every country in Europe except the Republic of Ireland is Nazi, plenty of other people think thats complete and utter made up nonsense.

Plenty of people don't think every other country in Europe are nazis. The sources I quoted were not Irish, they were Indian and African, one of them from a Judge in the middle of watching a great british set of concentration camps being operated.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Again with the "plenty of people"...

Who are these "plenty"?

Personally I find it a little fcuking disrespectful of the millions of victims of (german) Nazi violence to have you and your half baked knowledge of history throwing out bullsh*t like this.

I'd like to see how you'd get on with a star sewn on your coat and some stripy PJ's...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Perhaps you didn't read the links already supplied. Or did you just see the word "british" and "nazi" in the same sentence and decide to throw a caniption? What was the difference between british violence and nazi violence, higher quality violence maybe? A better class of genital mutilation? Superior mass graves?

Argue with the links provided if you like, and there's plenty more where that came from.

getz

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the holocaust didn't happen, or is it just an exaggeration?

dwight d eisenhower,he said ;take as many pictures of the holocaust as you can because one day they will try to deny it,

JoeGil

getz wrote: »

dwight d eisenhower,he said ;take as many pictures of the holocaust as you can because one day they will try to deny it,

which they did which is why nobody can deny it.

There are also many pictures of the oppression foisted upon the minority community of NI which is why you would not expect people to deny it but it still doesn't prevent some from trying.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the holocaust didn't happen, or is it just an exaggeration?

No Fred, the Holocaust happened, what I said was that informed people don't just take the winners word for things. They view history from many different sources.
You and others on here are the deniers, your version is hidebound and from the worst type of British perspective, the one that sees them as benevolent peace makers and forces for much good in their colonies. That is what the purpose of the gentle Queen is, she markets that message around the world, the one that you and so many Irish have fallen for, hook line and sinker.
Yes the British have done good, even in this country, but they have also done much wrong, have used terror in the same way as everybody else has when it suited them and denied responsibility for their actions.

“ ...ever since the deliberate mass bombing of civilians in the second world war, and as a direct response to it, the international community has outlawed the practice. It first tried to do so in the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, but the UK and the US would not agree, since to do so would have been an admission of guilt for their systematic "area bombing" of German and Japanese civilians. ”

—A.C. Grayling.

It was curious to watch the BBC last night and see the British football team in Poland visit Auzwitch, cue, much wringing of hands and solemn voiceovers, another knife put into the Germans, but I asked myself, would the soccer team visit Dresden and Colonge to see the damage and killing done there? Not likely.
Wake up Fred and look around you.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

No Fred, the Holocaust happened, what I said was that informed people don't just take the winners word for things. They view history from many different sources.
You and others on here are the deniers, your version is hidebound and from the worst type of British perspective, the one that sees them as benevolent peace makers and forces for much good in their colonies. That is what the purpose of the gentle Queen is, she markets that message around the world, the one that you and so many Irish have fallen for, hook line and sinker.
Yes the British have done good, even in this country, but they have also done much wrong, have used terror in the same way as everybody else has when it suited them and denied responsibility for their actions.

“ ...ever since the deliberate mass bombing of civilians in the second world war, and as a direct response to it, the international community has outlawed the practice. It first tried to do so in the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, but the UK and the US would not agree, since to do so would have been an admission of guilt for their systematic "area bombing" of German and Japanese civilians. ”

—A.C. Grayling.

It was curious to watch the BBC last night and see the British football team in Poland visit Auzwitch, cue, much wringing of hands and solemn voiceovers, another knife put into the Germans, but I asked myself, would the soccer team visit Dresden and Colonge to see the damage and killing done there? Not likely.
Wake up Fred and look around you.

Back away Happyman, you have no idea what you are talking about.

No one is denying the wrongs of the empire over the years, simply that Doc Ruby's assertion that the British are worse than the Nazis is a load of bollocks.

As for Dresden, this has been done many many times http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/225369.stm
http://www.coventry.anglican.org/news/pressreleases/opt/0/download/532


Oddly enough, the British and Germans are very good friends and allies, we have all moves on. The only people, it appears, are a few Irish people that still insist that no matter what has happened anywhere else n the world, no one has ever suffered as bad as the poor old Irish.