Mother anger at IRA medals given by GAA

awec

PC CDROM wrote: »

Troll much?

How's that a troll?

It's a valid analogy. People are on here saying that it's fine that this terrorist is on a medal because they think he's a hero. How many of those people would view it as perfectly acceptable if "the other lot" did it?

Not many, I suspect. Can't beat a bit of hypocrisy.

PC CDROM

awec wrote: »

How's that a troll?

It's a valid analogy. People are on here saying that it's fine that this terrorist is on a medal because they think he's a hero. How many of those people would view it as perfectly acceptable if "the other lot" did it?

Not many, I suspect.

Lets see...

awec wrote: »

Imagine soccer in the north introduced medals depicting the likes of Billy Wright or Jonny Adair or Michael Stone.

I wonder how many of the "he's a hero" brigade would be falling over themselves to try and excuse, deflect and spin that.

You mentioned soccer.

Billy Wright.

Jonny Adair

Michael Stone


Did I win the internet?

Varied

awec wrote: »

Imagine soccer in the north introduced medals depicting the likes of Billy Wright or Jonny Adair or Michael Stone.

I wonder how many of the "he's a hero" brigade would be falling over themselves to try and excuse, deflect and spin that.

Like when catholic/Irish players that wanted to play for the north got death threats from supporters of the people in your post?

The fact that the majority of soccer teams in the North ARE protestant only and would probably subject Irish/Catholic players to the same?!

I want to add that I think GAA should be open to everyone, but the sport should be respected as an Irish sport.

PC CDROM

PC CDROM wrote: »

Did I win the internet?

I have puppy issues.

many thanks would be like me winning the internets.

CajunPenguin

The GAA didn't do it the club did. It's not like the GAA county boards sat around a big table in Croke Park and said "right, we have to put X on the medal"

awec

PC CDROM wrote: »

Lets see...




You mentioned soccer.

Billy Wright.

Jonny Adair

Michael Stone


Did I win the internet?

You've lost me I'm afraid. What are you arguing here? You really don't understand the analogy?

Varied wrote: »

Like when catholic/Irish players that wanted to play for the north got death threats from supporters of the people in your post?

The fact that the majority of soccer teams in the North ARE protestant only and would probably subject Irish/Catholic players to the same?!

What?! :pac:

Are you for real?

PC CDROM

awec wrote: »

You've lost me I'm afraid. What are you arguing here? You really don't understand the analogy?



What?! :pac:

Are you for real?

Miss quote. Fail.

Fratton Fred

Varied wrote: »

Like when catholic/Irish players that wanted to play for the north got death threats from supporters of the people in your post?

The fact that the majority of soccer teams in the North ARE protestant only and would probably subject Irish/Catholic players to the same?!

I want to add that I think GAA should be open to everyone, but the sport should be respected as an Irish sport.

That's bollocks tbh. It a sport that has its origins in Ireland, but the politics should be left out of it.

awec

PC CDROM wrote: »

Miss quote. Fail.

This is going over my head now.

Anyway, I'm bowing out of this discussion. People are going to view the guy in different ways, that's fair enough.

In my personal opinion I wouldn't want to receive this medal nor would I want a child of mine to. I think things like this are best left out of sport.

the_syco

Spunk84 wrote: »

People have short memories, the IRA made this country

True. The IRA.

Not the PIRA, CIRA, INLA, etc.

=-=

Sounds like the GAA club was trying to be "hip" by getting "gangsta" in the eyes of the kids but some wan decided to buck the trend. Meh.

Fenian Army

the_syco wrote: »

True. The IRA.

Not the PIRA, CIRA, INLA, etc.

=-=

Sounds like the GAA club was trying to be "hip" by getting "gangsta" in the eyes of the kids but some wan decided to buck the trend. Meh.

no its not that at all. Did you read the thread?

More of the "good old IRA" nonsense too I see.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's bollocks tbh. It a sport that has its origins in Ireland, but the politics should be left out of it.

Someone forgot to tell the Pompey supporter waving a Union Jack in your Avatar.

Yamanoto

Notorious97 wrote: »

To everyone outside that area this can be seen as inappropriate, but to this mans club and his community it is obviously an accepted tournament and occasion! They havent glorified his actions off the field, they are honoring a former memer, leave them to it.

See, I get this argument. Problem is a local club should also be cognisant of its responsibilities to the organisation as a whole.

It'd be naive to think this wouldn't have been picked up by local media, and the optics ain't good for the Association, regardless of the rights or wrongs of it as you or the club members see it.

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Someone forgot to tell the Pompey supporter waving a Union Jack in your Avatar.

That's not politics is it though, Pompey are a British club.

JoeGil

awec wrote: »

Imagine soccer in the north introduced medals depicting the likes of Billy Wright or Jonny Adair or Michael Stone.

I wonder how many of the "he's a hero" brigade would be falling over themselves to try and excuse, deflect and spin that.

It's not a good analogy.
If Irish soldiers were occupying part of England and getting killed I think a lot of Irish people would have an understanding as to why it was happening and why the local community were reacting in that way.

Wright, Adair and Stone were on the other hand trying to maintain the status quo of an injust system. To be fair to them they were to some extent the victims of the same imperial system that McCaughey was victim of as evidenced by the fact that once the empire was forced by international pressure to act in a just manner, the need for anybody on either side to continue the struggle was removed.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's not politics is it though, Pompey are a British club.

And the GAA is an Irish Organisation.

Fratton Fred

JoeGil wrote: »

It's not a good analogy.
If Irish soldiers were occupying part of England and getting killed I think a lot of Irish people would have an understanding as to why it was happening and why the local community were reacting in that way.

Wright, Adair and Stone were on the other hand trying to maintain the status quo of an injust system. To be fair to them they were to some extent the victims of the same imperial system that McCaughey was victim of as evidenced by the fact that once the empire was forced by international pressure to act in a just manner, the need for anybody on either side to continue the struggle was removed.

So how does this work?

Do lots of people rewrite history until a version is agreed on that suits all the agendas?

My name is URL

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So how does this work?

Do lots of people rewrite history until a version is agreed on that suits all the agendas?

Yes =/

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

And the GAA is an Irish Organisation.

So you would be comfortable with the FA cup being renamed the Oliver Cromwell challenge cup? Or the Margaret Thatcher Trophy?

I wouldn't, because that is mixing politics and sport.

A GAA club painting its club house green, white and Orange isn't being political. Renaming the clubhouse the Gerry Adams building is.

JoeGil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So how does this work?

Do lots of people rewrite history until a version is agreed on that suits all the agendas?

No, there's no rewriting.
Events happen and get judged on their merits and facts.
In an ideal world each country treats the other with respect and confines it's jurisdiction within it's own borders.

Fratton Fred

JoeGil wrote: »

No, there's no rewriting.
Events happen and get judged on their merits and facts.
In an ideal world each country treats the other with respect and confines it's jurisdiction within it's own borders.

Yeah right, coz the PIRA were big into confining their actions to their borders and treating people with respect.

FTA69

Deedsie wrote: »

Fair play to that woman for complaining, Croke Park should intervene here and penalise the clubs/organisers of that tournament. It gives the entire association a bad name. People from the unionist community dont see a difference between individual clubs and the entire association. There needs to be some rules brought in about what is and what is not appropriate for clubs to be "celebrating/honouring" in relation to sensitivities to both communities in Northern Ireland.

It might not encourage one person from the unionist community to take up Gaelic Games, however i think its the right thing to do. The GAA needs to be clear to clubs throughout Ulster, that it thrives to be an apolitical association.

I take it then you'll be in favour of renaming the hurling and football championship cups then? After all both are named after active IRA members who killed people in the name of Irish freedom.

Fair play for the local club in commemorating Martin McCaughey; an avid GAA member, local councillor and revolutionary.

bwatson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So you would be comfortable with the FA cup being renamed the Oliver Cromwell challenge cup? Or the Margaret Thatcher Trophy?

I wouldn't, because that is mixing politics and sport.

A GAA club painting its club house green, white and Orange isn't being political. Renaming the clubhouse the Gerry Adams building is.

To be fair, British soldiers, sailors and airmen parade around the pitch, are introduced to the players, and bring out the trophy on cup final days. I have no problem with that, in fact I positively encourage and enjoy it. For that reason I can't really have any complaints with this GAA club remembering former IRA men killed by the Special Air Service while retrieving weapons in this manner if they wish. In Britain we remember ours with nationwide silence in the remembrance period at football matches nowadays afterall.

IrishAm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Bit of a difference in the IRA that helped establish this country and the IRA that was around in the 70's 80's and 90's.

Differences such as.......

JoeGil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah right, coz the PIRA were big into confining their actions to their borders and treating people with respect.

PIRA isn't a nation. My point applies the same to Ireland as it does to any other country.
Once a country decides to forceably exercise it's authority over another jurisdiction this will inevitably lead to a counter reaction.

IrishAm

awec wrote: »

Do us a favour, stop taking us for fools.

He was a talented former player and represented Tyrone at minor level.

Fratton Fred

JoeGil wrote: »

PIRA isn't a nation. My point applies the same to Ireland as it does to any other country.
Once a country decides to forceably exercise it's authority over another jurisdiction this will inevitably lead to a counter reaction.

Oh the high and mighty "you invaded so anything we do is acceptable" arguement.

Chuck Stone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah right, coz the PIRA were big into confining their actions to their borders and treating people with respect.

Ah yes, because the British always respected the peoples they encountered and never left their borders to colonize half the globe in their avaricious quest to control resources and trade routes.

Oh Lordy, the double standards that people display when it comes to northern Republicans/Nationalists are really quite astonishing.

aquascrotum

Surprised at this tbh, given there was a similar reaction to the naming of a youth tournament in the same area a few years ago.

As someone else has stated one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. The amount of "ah sure this is grand" though on this board seems disproportionate to the normally anti-terrorism vibe that one normally gets on here, and at the time society at large in 1990 was pretty anti-RA (at least outwardly)...in 20 years time will Kerr/Azamkhar/Carroll's killers be lauded similarly as freedom fighters in widespread fashion, when at the minute they're highly marginalised?

If this move was sanctioned from the top it seems a strange move given the various community outreach projects the Ulster branch of the GAA is currently involved in. Sufficient time has passed to allow Collins et al to be freedom fighters - but 1990 is still fairly fresh in the mind of a lot of folk in NI.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/community/community-outreach/

You're going to set back the whole community outreach a fair bit if at the same time your handing out medals glorifying terrorists/"active service volunteers" from the same vintage that killed parents and siblings of the people your trying to attract through the door - regardless of how good a footballer he may have been or how nice a chap he was when not donning a 3-hole bally and carrying an assault rifle.

CajunPenguin

They were shot more than 30 times? Sounds a bit fishy, especially when you consider the SAS are all about one shot one kill...

Fratton Fred

CajunPenguin wrote: »

They were shot more than 30 times? Sounds a bit fishy, especially when you consider the SAS are all about one shot one kill...

No they aren't. At the very least its two shots.

IrishAm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh the high and mighty "you invaded so anything we do is acceptable" arguement.

Pretty stellar argument, in fairness. If the British didn't invade, there would be no need for militant Republican organisations.

Fratton Fred

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ah yes, because the British always respected the peoples they encountered and never left their borders to colonize half the globe in their avaricious quest to control resources and trade routes.

Oh Lordy, the double standards that people display when it comes to northern Republicans/Nationalists are really quite astonishing.

oh, so you mean the GAA won't be dishing out medals with pictures of the Queen on them then?

JoeGil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh the high and mighty "you invaded so anything we do is acceptable" arguement.

It wasn't meant to be high and mighty.
It's just human nature. Look at any country that has been invaded and you will see that the local community rise up against it to defend themselves.

Happyman42

I'm sure Jimmy Deenihan has or willrecieve similar sporting honours, doesn't mean everyone or indeed anyone in the club is a rampant Fine Gaeler.
Shock Horror: Irish people take their heads out of the sand long enough to realise IRA man made a worthwhile contribution to his community.

Fratton Fred

IrishAm wrote: »

Pretty stellar argument, in fairness. If the British didn't invade, there would be no need for militant Republican organisations.

If my Aunt had balls...

Chuck Stone

bwatson wrote: »

To be fair, British soldiers, sailors and airmen parade around the pitch, are introduced to the players, and bring out the trophy on cup final days. I have no problem with that, in fact I positively encourage and enjoy it. For that reason I can't really have any complaints with this GAA club remembering former IRA men killed by the Special Air Service while retrieving weapons in this manner if they wish. In Britain we remember ours with nationwide silence in the remembrance period at football matches nowadays afterall.

I think it would be better if we (us humans) didn't do that though. Yes it's okay, even honourable, to remember people who've died for a cause they deem just but I think it should be done discreetly as opposed to having it front and centre in the public psyche.

Chuck Stone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

oh, so you mean the GAA won't be dishing out medals with pictures of the Queen on them then?

Why would they?

Fratton Fred

JoeGil wrote: »

It wasn't meant to be high and mighty.
It's just human nature. Look at any country that has been invaded and you will see that the local community rise up against it to defend themselves.

and bit by bit history gets rewritten.

The PIRA was not about defending a community. You don't defend a community by going off and murdering innocent people.

The PIRA were a terrorist organisation whose only objective was to bring about a united Ireland.

Fratton Fred

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why would they?

Exactly, so what the British may or may not have done is largely irrelevant.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So you would be comfortable with the FA cup being renamed the Oliver Cromwell challenge cup? Or the Margaret Thatcher Trophy?

If I were a revisionist, maybe.

I wouldn't, because that is mixing politics and sport.

Wouldn't stop your flag from being considered a political symbol in Northern Ireland.

That's what you fail to understand. Sport and Politics are almost intrinsically linked in Northern Ireland.

A GAA club painting its club house green, white and Orange isn't being political. Renaming the clubhouse the Gerry Adams building is.

Both would be considered political. Both would more than likely be reported in the local or National papers.

Chuck Stone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Exactly, so what the British may or may not have done is largely irrelevant.

To what? Jesus Fred c'mon - explain yourself properly (I'm trying to keep my post count down here like)

blahfckingblah

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Exactly, so what the British may or may not have done is largely irrelevant.

hey fred whens the last time the queen kicked some points?

JoeGil

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and bit by bit history gets rewritten.

The PIRA was not about defending a community. You don't defend a community by going off and murdering innocent people.

The PIRA were a terrorist organisation whose only objective was to bring about a united Ireland.

I have no idea what the objective of PIRA was.
If as you say their only objective was to bring about a united Ireland then they were very unsuccessful and you would have to question why they ceased if their only objective and reason for existing had not been achieved.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh the high and mighty "you invaded so anything we do is acceptable" arguement.

Reading this, I just can't help but think that other Imperial Nations went about it entirely wrong.

The British truly have left a bizarre legacy. On Boards we're still debating whether or not the men who fought to create this Country were simply opportunistic Terrorists. :rolleyes:

Varied

Fratton Fred wrote: »

oh, so you mean the GAA won't be dishing out medals with pictures of the Queen on them then?

No, just a lot of "general service" medals for indiscriminately killing hundreds of Irish and catholic people in the North.

Oh wait, no thats the British army.:rolleyes:

Paparazzo

SocSocPol wrote: »

Typical sneering psuedo-republican attitude, the same attitude they still show to the family of Jean McConville and other innocent victims of their criminality.

Exactly. The whole "but he played GAA for that club, so it's ok" attitude is sickening. They know exactly what they're doing.

Zebra3

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's not politics is it though, Pompey are a British club.

Nope, they are an English club that plays in the English league.

The Union Jack is a political flag which has the Cross of St Patrick in it which represents Ireland being subverted into the Union in 1801, but which fails to acknowledge that 5/6ths of it left it back in 1921.

Richard

Varied wrote: »

No, just a lot of "general service" medals for indiscriminately killing hundreds of Irish and catholic people in the North.

Oh wait, no thats the British army.:rolleyes:

When were hundreds of people indiscriminately killed by the British Army?

Even so, you wouldn't expect a sporting organisation in Northern Ireland to hand out medals to children depicting a British soldier, so I can't see how an IRA terrorist deserves to be on such a medal either.

The problem with the GAA is that it is too political. I'm not saying other organisations aren't (the Irish Football Association, for example), but the GAA seems to be unique with its links to the recent armed conflict.

Zebra3

Richard wrote: »

When were hundreds of people indiscriminately killed by the British Army?

Where do you want me to start? :rolleyes: