Mother anger at IRA medals given by GAA

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Surely you mean the British government then, or was it really, as it felt, a war against the people of Britain?

Struggling Fred? :rolleyes:

Spread

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

People have different views on it. Many people in Ulster believe it was from Republican aggression in the rejection of the state. I think Sinn Fein have now accepted this and now work for the British government. Another reason why there is still Republican aggression groups around.

Another big jump. Shouldn't that be with?

Fratton Fred

Spread wrote: »

Fred, at history class when you were a teenager ........... how were you taught to look on colonization?

Good or Evil?

Neither to be honest. Empires were a simple fact of history. The British Empire, despite its size was no different to any other.

How do they explain the conquest of North America in USSchools? Do they accept the acts of genocide yet or are they still portraying it as the bad Indians killing the good cowboys?

Joko

mikemac1 wrote: »

Join a club named after Patrick Pearse......................then complain about a medal for a gunman

Patrick Pearse, a man who fought and died in military uniform vs the bavaclava men you admire who cowardly blew up civilians or murdered women and buried their bodies in unmarked shallow graves.

Happyman42

Joko wrote: »

Patrick Pearse, a man who fought and died in military uniform vs the bavaclava men you admire who cowardly blew up civilians or murdered women and buried their bodies in unmarked shallow graves.

In a war or conflict it doesn't really matter who is wearing uniforms. 'Terror' is a weapon used by all, in the belief it will speed up a resolution. One of the sad truths of the world we live in.

http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA8B9.htm

true

Happyman42 wrote: »

In a war or conflict it doesn't really matter who is wearing uniforms.

yes it does. If a terrorist group starts a campaign it also matters who is wearing uniforms. There is such a thing as the rule of law in these islands and you must respect that.
Tou still have not answered what sort of parents would have their young boy join a sporting club where they aspire to winning a medal of a terrorist?

Do you know of other "sporting" organisations which give out medals to young boys with a picture of a PIRA man, a UVF man, a real IRA man ( omagh bomber ) or Osama Bin Laden on it ?

Nodin

true wrote: »

yes it does. If a terrorist group starts a campaign it also matters who is wearing uniforms. There is such a thing as the rule of law in these islands and you must respect that.
........

From somebody who claims to be from the south, it has to be said you phrase your thoughts and put forward notions that look remarkably akin to that of northern unionism/loyalism.

Happyman42

true wrote: »

yes it does. If a terrorist group starts a campaign it also matters who is wearing uniforms. There is such a thing as the rule of law in these islands and you must respect that.

Simplistic in the extreme. The RULE of the law was the problem.

Tou still have not answered what sort of parents would have their young boy join a sporting club where they aspire to winning a medal of a terrorist?

Honest or ignorant ones.
Honest; in that they assess exactly what is being 'celebrated' and decide if they are comfortable with that, before not after!
and ignorant; enrolling a boy/girl without first assessing what exactly it was they where doing. Which seems to be what this elusive, probably ficticious woman did.
Hindsight is not an excuse in Northern Ireland. I would never let my son or daughter wear a Celtic or Rangers shirt unless they actually supported the football club because that shirt has become a symbol for something else, bigotry. And I would explain my reason, because I would want them to grow up with the ability to honestly assess their actions and to realise who they are. Shielding 12 year olds from the realities of life with revisionist lies is nonsense and irresponsible parenting imo.

Do you know of other "sporting" organisations which give out medals to young boys with a picture of a PIRA man, a UVF man, a real IRA man ( omagh bomber ) or Osama Bin Laden on it ?

Before joining any organisation a responsible person would look at how IT sees itself and recognise that this particular organisation (The GAA) allows clubs to grow from particular communities with their own 'sense of place'. If you aren't comfortable with that, maybe the area you live in is the problem.


From the GAA constitution. (bolded words, mine)
The Gaelic Athletic Association has provided sporting activity for successive
generations of Irish people both at home and overseas. For almost one
hundred and twenty years, the Association has organised competitions in
Hurling and Gaelic Football at various levels. These competitions, on both
a national and local basis, have provided satisfaction to the many thousands
who have played the games and the thousands more who have played
a role as spectators or administrators. During the course of its development
and in the organisation of its fixtures, the Association has succeeded in creating,
through the provision of attractive games, a distinct, competitive
spirit, which engendered pride in one’s locality. Endeavours on the playing
field, whether on behalf of school, club or county, and including both successes
and failures, have created an almost tangible ‘sense of place and tradition’
for virtually every community throughout the country. Success in
providing that sense of both place and identity to local communities
throughout the land, has developed to the point where the G.A.A. now provides
a sense of national identity for all Irish people, whether at home or
overseas. The G.A.A. is now synonymous with ‘community’ and is an integral
part of community life in most rural and many urban areas. It is part
of the fabric of Irish life.

Happyman42

true wrote: »

yes it does. If a terrorist group starts a campaign it also matters who is wearing uniforms. There is such a thing as the rule of law in these islands and you must respect that.
Tou still have not answered what sort of parents would have their young boy join a sporting club where they aspire to winning a medal of a terrorist?

Do you know of other "sporting" organisations which give out medals to young boys with a picture of a PIRA man, a UVF man, a real IRA man ( omagh bomber ) or Osama Bin Laden on it ?

btw: I ignored your 'starts a campaign' for the rubbish and tired old partitionist revisionism that it is.:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

In a war or conflict it doesn't really matter who is wearing uniforms. 'Terror' is a weapon used by all, in the belief it will speed up a resolution. One of the sad truths of the world we live in.

http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA8B9.htm

Sounds like an excuse to me. Is this how you ease your conscience

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Simplistic in the extreme. The RULE of the law was the problem.

Honest or ignorant ones.
Honest; in that they assess exactly what is being 'celebrated' and decide if they are comfortable with that, before not after!
and ignorant; enrolling a boy/girl without first assessing what exactly it was they where doing. Which seems to be what this elusive, probably ficticious woman did.
Hindsight is not an excuse in Northern Ireland. I would never let my son or daughter wear a Celtic or Rangers shirt unless they actually supported the football club because that shirt has become a symbol for something else, bigotry. And I would explain my reason, because I would want them to grow up with the ability to honestly assess their actions and to realise who they are. Shielding 12 year olds from the realities of life with revisionist lies is nonsense and irresponsible parenting imo.



Before joining any organisation a responsible person would look at how IT sees itself and recognise that this particular organisation (The GAA) allows clubs to grow from particular communities with their own 'sense of place'. If you aren't comfortable with that, maybe the area you live in is the problem.


From the GAA constitution. (bolded words, mine)
The Gaelic Athletic Association has provided sporting activity for successive
generations of Irish people both at home and overseas. For almost one
hundred and twenty years, the Association has organised competitions in
Hurling and Gaelic Football at various levels. These competitions, on both
a national and local basis, have provided satisfaction to the many thousands
who have played the games and the thousands more who have played
a role as spectators or administrators. During the course of its development
and in the organisation of its fixtures, the Association has succeeded in creating,
through the provision of attractive games, a distinct, competitive
spirit, which engendered pride in one’s locality. Endeavours on the playing
field, whether on behalf of school, club or county, and including both successes
and failures, have created an almost tangible ‘sense of place and tradition’
for virtually every community throughout the country. Success in
providing that sense of both place and identity to local communities
throughout the land, has developed to the point where the G.A.A. now provides
a sense of national identity for all Irish people, whether at home or
overseas. The G.A.A. is now synonymous with ‘community’ and is an integral
part of community life in most rural and many urban areas. It is part
of the fabric of Irish life.

If anyone was wondering what that noise was, it was Happyman scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Sounds like an excuse to me. Is this how you ease your conscience

No, it's how I reach a fair and balanced judgement based on the realities. Rather than ease my conscience, I seek to inform it, at all times, however hard that might be. Would, that all would do that, instead of clambering up onto the high moral ground with their flags when it suits them.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If anyone was wondering what that noise was, it was Happyman scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Still struggling Fred?

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It is possible to be a freedom fighter without being a terrorist.

The PIRA crossed the line on many occasions and their acts of terror made it impossible for the UK government to openly negotiate with them. If they had stuck to military targets rather than targeting civilians then the GFA would have been signed 10 years earlier.

It was called the Sunningdale Agreement.

Patrick Cleburne

Spread wrote: »

Another big jump. Shouldn't that be with?

No.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

No, it's how I reach a fair and balanced judgement based on the realities. Rather than ease my conscience, I seek to inform it, at all times, however hard that might be. Would, that all would do that, instead of clambering up onto the high moral ground with their flags when it suits them.

but its not fair and balanced. You are removing any onus on the IRA to act in any sort of reasonable manner. You SF giving anyone a carte blanched excuse to kill innocent people because of something that happened hundreds of years ago.

In short, not only are you a terrorist apologists, you are almost encouraging people to carry on.

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

It was called the Sunningdale Agreement.

As I said, the GFA would have been signed ten years earlier.

true

Nodin wrote: »

From somebody who claims to be from the south, it has to be said you phrase your thoughts and put forward notions that look remarkably akin to that of northern unionism/loyalism.

lol You are really scratching the bottom of the barrell now. Never mind me. The point is that there is and was the rule of law, and most people in both Britain and Ireland accepted that and act and acted broadly speaking within the law - they do not go around murdering people ...they ( mostly ) pay their taxes to the government and the elected government pays its security services ( police / Gardai , army etc ).

You can support those who killed Gardai here in the Republic, you can support the PIRA or Real IRA if you want, you can support the murder of people overseas, but most people do not. If you think that notion looks remarkably akin to that of northern unionism/loyalism, then you do not understand this country.

By the way you still have not answered what sort of parents would have their young boy join a sporting club where they aspire to winning a medal of a terrorist?

Do you know of other "sporting" organisations which give out medals to young boys with a picture of a PIRA man, a UVF man, a real IRA man ( omagh bomber ) or Osama Bin Laden on it ?

Patrick Cleburne

The hypocrisy is amazing on this story.

A club in the GAA does it and it is perfectly fine. If Linfield decided to celebrate the Volunteers of the UVF in pre season, people would be in uproar. But hey, it is the GAA and it is the IRA, so it doesn't matter.

Amazing hypocrisy. I am sure many Linfield and Protestants in Ulster would commemorate the UVF in sport but the GAA is a one community sectarian institution, so Republicans can do it much easier in sport.

K-9

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

but the GAA is a one community sectarian institution,

How so?

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As I said, the GFA would have been signed ten years earlier.

It's equivalent was signed twenty years earlier.

It collapsed in 1974 under Unionist pressure.

Chuck Stone

Welcome back Keith you horrible troll.

awec

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

The hypocrisy is amazing on this story.

A club in the GAA does it and it is perfectly fine. If Linfield decided to celebrate the Volunteers of the UVF in pre season, people would be in uproar. But hey, it is the GAA and it is the IRA, so it doesn't matter.

Amazing hypocrisy. I am sure many Linfield and Protestants in Ulster would commemorate the UVF in sport but the GAA is a one community sectarian institution, so Republicans can do it much easier in sport.

Er, no.

Patrick Cleburne

K-9 wrote: »

How so?

Seems pretty obvious to me just by going with this thread. A club in the GAA gives medals of IRA terrorists to kids to brainwash them into thinking it was perfectly fine to kill Protestants.

K-9

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Seems pretty obvious to me just by going with this thread. A club in the GAA gives medals of IRA terrorists to kids to brainwash them into thinking it was perfectly fine to kill Protestants.

That makes the organisation sectarian? How do you make that out?

Sound of Silence

true wrote: »

lol You are really scratching the bottom of the barrell now. Never mind me.

Never mind you indeed.

I don't think we would even know where to start.

Nodin

true wrote: »

lol You are really (..............)you do not understand this country. ?

The rule of law has in its time prevented 'mixing of the races', banned religions, and - in the case of the north - allowed a sectarian statelet to discriminate for over half a century.

true wrote: »

By the way you still have not answered what sort of parents would have their young boy join a sporting club where they aspire to winning a medal of a terrorist? ?

"terrorist" is your label. Republicans and nationalists have no problems with Republicans and nationalists.

Patrick Cleburne

K-9 wrote: »

That makes the organisation sectarian? How do you make that out?

Look up the word. This seems perfectly clear. I was horrified when I heard about this news. The club decided to go ahead with handing out medals with IRA terrorists on them and had no thought of punishment from the GAA because they know they won't get punished.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

but its not fair and balanced. You are removing any onus on the IRA to act in any sort of reasonable manner. You SF giving anyone a carte blanched excuse to kill innocent people because of something that happened hundreds of years ago.

In short, not only are you a terrorist apologists, you are almost encouraging people to carry on.

More nonsense, where and when have I ever excused the actions of the IRA? It really galls you that the IRA stopped their campaign when they got what they wanted doesn't it? Throws the blood lusting, physcopathic crimminals argument right out the window.
You live in world where the politics of selective condemnation allow you to have a biased view of what happened. I don't.
Attempting to understand why it is societies can go up in flames has to be done by being fair and reasoned. The moniker 'terrorist' is a name based on a falsehood, given that the very people or governments (by their own admission) previously engaged in much wider and indiscrimate campaigns of 'terror' to achieve their aims. http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA8B9.htm

It is dishonest to isolate Dresden, or even Bomber Command's whole campaign, as somehow separate from the rest of the Second World War. War doesn't work that way: it is an all-encompassing affair. Frying German women and children by the thousand was an integral part of the Allies' war effort. As Middlebrook accurately summed it up:

'Area Bombing was a three-year period of deceit practiced upon the British public and on world opinion… the main impression was usually given that industry was the main target and that any bombing of workers' housing areas was an unavoidable necessity… The deceit lay in the concealment of the fact that the areas being most heavily bombed were nearly always either city centres or densely populated residential areas, which rarely contained any industry.'
By focusing on the horrors of Dresden, too many critics in practice whitewash the rest of the Allies' actions in the war - not just the use of the atomic bomb, but also, for example, Churchill's manoeuvres in the Indian sub-continent, which cost millions their lives, or the betrayal of Partisans in southern Europe, or the fake 'de-Nazification' of Germany after 1945.

Having understood why what happened, happened, I am pointing the finger at those that allowed the situation to spiral towards war by attempting to supress the natural desire to equality and freedom from opression or by vainly trying to maintain the status quo (which any sane and reasonable person-including those who formerly championed it-would say was suprematist and discriminatory). By having to be dragged to the table and forced to change that system THEY prolonged the violence they so easily could have stopped.

That is not to condone the violence itself, I hate and detest every single act and wish it never had to happen or that the IRA never existed. But it did happen and they did exist.
If people don't face up to the real reasons it happened and 'whitewash' the events to suit their own agendas, then it will simply happen again and again. Witness; the rise of the 'dissidents' and their treatment. All the hallmarks of the early days of the present troubles. Supression, internment and ignoring of their demands to maintain the status quo.

gurramok

Joko wrote: »

Patrick Pearse, a man who fought and died in military uniform vs the bavaclava men you admire who cowardly blew up civilians or murdered women and buried their bodies in unmarked shallow graves.

The SAS wore balaclavas too, they mostly shot people who were dying already though.

Icepick

Like the Catholic Church, gotta get them when they are young and gullible.

karma_

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

Look up the word. This seems perfectly clear. I was horrified when I heard about this news. The club decided to go ahead with handing out medals with IRA terrorists on them and had no thought of punishment from the GAA because they know they won't get punished.

I know a good few Protestants who play or have played GAA, including recent winners of the All Ireland.

I find this particular incident by the club involved highly inappropriate, but it by no means is typical of your average GAA club by any means, in fact it's extremely rare.

Oh and by the way, Hi Keith!

Sound of Silence

Icepick wrote: »

Like the Catholic Church, gotta get them when they are young and gullible.

Having been an avid Gaelic player, and having attended Mass each Sunday throughout my youth, I think I was unfortunate enough to miss the lectures on Nationalism.

Oh wait, I think I was too busy sleeping in Mass, and too busy doing laps around the field in my local GAA club! :pac:

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

It's equivalent was signed twenty years earlier.

It collapsed in 1974 under Unionist pressure.

Yes, I know what the Sunningdale agreement was. Not sure why you keep banging on about it. The GFA is the one that ultimately saw the end of operation banner.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, I know what the Sunningdale agreement was. Not sure why you keep banging on about it. The GFA is the one that ultimately saw the end of operation banner.

You basically claimed that Nationalists should have copped on earlier if they wanted a GFA style resolution. We had the opportunity for Power-Sharing twenty years earlier. Sadly the dear Reverend was having none of it.

In the words of Seamus Mallon, the GFA was certainly "Sunningdale for slow learners".

Fratton Fred

karma_ wrote: »

I know a good few Protestants who play or have played GAA, including recent winners of the All Ireland.

Isn't there some bloke called Sam who had something to do with it as well?

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Isn't there some bloke called Sam who had something to do with it as well?

I'm assuming that you consider every Protestant to be a token Protestant.

Patrick Cleburne

Sound of Silence wrote: »

You basically claimed that Nationalists should have copped on earlier if they wanted a GFA style resolution. We had the opportunity for Power-Sharing twenty years earlier. Sadly the dear Reverend was having none of it.

In the words of Seamus Mallon, the GFA was certainly "Sunningdale for slow learners".

More rewriting of history. Sinn Fein also rejected the Sunningdale agreement. To try and pin it all on Unionism is a big lie and should be called out as one.

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I'm assuming that you consider every Protestant to be a token Protestant.

I don't see the GAA as being sectarian, at least not in the south.

Doc Ruby

Happyman42 wrote: »

They had the control and the onus of responsibility was on them to ensure fair and democratic (that is what they call their system, isn't it?) governance.

They were never about fair and democratic governance. Their modus operandi was to pick a minority in the underdeveloped state they had just rolled over with vastly superior technology and put them in charge, which clearly was not just a stupid idea given how visibly short lived the empire was, but actively malicious in view of the horrors and hatred they left behind them.

Truly a backwards and simplistic model, reversing the more accurate "divide and conquer" model used successful by the Romans against adversaries of almost equal military capability and turning it into "conquer and divide", which makes sense on no level at all.

Simpletons enabled by science, pretty much sums up the empire.

Of course in Ireland's case that wasn't working so they had to introduce a minority to fill the role in the Ulster plantations, and the hallmarks of the same backwards policies are still clear even today. It certainly puts the lie to the "benefits" of empire.

Sound of Silence

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

More rewriting of history. Sinn Fein also rejected the Sunningdale agreement. To try and pin it all on Unionism is a big lie and should be called out as one.

Did you not bother to even consider why I quoted Seamus Mallon of all people?

Patrick Cleburne

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Did you not bother to even consider why I quoted Seamus Mallon of all people?

The IRA had to get on board for a peace process. Sinn Fein controlled the IRA.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

They were never about fair and democratic governance. Their modus operandi was to pick a minority in the underdeveloped state they had just rolled over with vastly superior technology and put them in charge, which clearly was not just a stupid idea given how visibly short lived the empire was, but actively malicious in view of the horrors and hatred they left behind them.

Truly a backwards and simplistic model, reversing the more accurate "divide and conquer" model used successful by the Romans against adversaries of almost equal military capability and turning it into "conquer and divide", which makes sense on no level at all.

Simpletons enabled by science, pretty much sums up the empire.

Of course in Ireland's case that wasn't working so they had to introduce a minority to fill the role in the Ulster plantations, and the hallmarks of the same backwards policies are still clear even today. It certainly puts the lie to the "benefits" of empire.

Simpletons that supposedly oppressed the Irish for 800 years?

I never would have put you down as self loathing.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Simpletons that supposedly oppressed the Irish for 800 years?

I never would have put you down as self loathing.

Hit a nerve did I fred?

Sound of Silence

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

The IRA had to get on board for a peace process. Sinn Fein controlled the IRA.

Whoosh.

And how much political control did Sinn Fein have in 1974? Not to mention that Sunningdale couldn't have been considered a formal ceasefire, rather an attempt to lay the foundations for a power-sharing Agreement.

I don't see where the IRA would've popped up in this, unless they hoped to agitate the majority SDLP voters. It was pretty much established that any Republicans who opposed the Agreement simply abstained.

micropig

They should put Rosanna Davidson's head on the medal next year

getzls

I'm a Northern Irish Unionist and a fan of Gaelic games. But this club doing this, even though he was a past player is so wrong. And a slap in the face of me as a Unionist G.A.A. fan.

PC CDROM

This still going on?

Fair play to you all!

You're like a mini little microcosm of it all.

No really.

You are.

rn

Happyman42 wrote: »

From the GAA constitution. (bolded words, mine)
The Gaelic Athletic Association has provided sporting activity for successive
generations of Irish people both at home and overseas. For almost one
hundred and twenty years, the Association has organised competitions in
Hurling and Gaelic Football at various levels. These competitions, on both
a national and local basis, have provided satisfaction to the many thousands
who have played the games and the thousands more who have played
a role as spectators or administrators. During the course of its development
and in the organisation of its fixtures, the Association has succeeded in creating,
through the provision of attractive games, a distinct, competitive
spirit, which engendered pride in one’s locality. Endeavours on the playing
field, whether on behalf of school, club or county, and including both successes
and failures, have created an almost tangible ‘sense of place and tradition’
for virtually every community throughout the country. Success in
providing that sense of both place and identity to local communities
throughout the land, has developed to the point where the G.A.A. now provides
a sense of national identity for all Irish people, whether at home or
overseas. The G.A.A. is now synonymous with ‘community’ and is an integral
part of community life in most rural and many urban areas. It is part
of the fabric of Irish life.

??? WTF. That doesn't give anyone the right to put a terrorist on medals for children. I have a strong interest in the GAA, so if you want to get into the rule book, lets quote Rule 1.11 and 1.12 of the GAA

1.11 Non-Party Political
The Association shall be non-party political. Party political
questions shall not be discussed at its meetings, and no
Committee, Club, Council or representative thereof
shall take part, as such, in any party political movement.
A penalty of up to twenty four weeks suspension may be
imposed for infringement.

1.12 Anti-Sectarian/Anti-Racist
The Association is Anti-Sectarian and Anti-Racist. Any
conduct by deed, word or gesture of a sectarian or racist
nature against any player, official, spectator or anyone else,
in the course of activities organised by the Association,
shall be deemed to have discredited the Association.
Penalty: As prescribed in Rule 7.2(e).

BTW if you are a true GAA man, you will know that all proposals come from one individual in the GAA and are endorsed by a club and often only a subset of its members, its executive. This was a bad proposal by that individual, a terrible decision for that club to make that brings our national game into disrepute and its up to Tryone County board and Croke Park to sort this out, either by a firm word with the officers of that club or sanction. I think the vast majority of the GAA membership would support sanction at this stage.

nua domhan

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

More rewriting of history. Sinn Fein also rejected the Sunningdale agreement. To try and pin it all on Unionism is a big lie and should be called out as one.

They rejected it, as did the PIRA. Neither not agreeing prevented it. In fact, it was signed and agreed in Nov 1973. It was in existence until May 1974 when the unionists pulled it down.

Yes or No?

here's some background reading before you answer........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunningdale_Agreement

Now, was it Sinn Fein, or the Unionists who collapsed the agreement?