Tramore Town Council last night.

Black Suir

Its not too often I have anything good to say about an elected representative to the Council or the Dail, but have to say well done to both Anne Marie Power and Maxine Keoghan for the stance they took last night. Its about time the more and more of our elected representative haves the balls to stand up for something they believe in. Hopefully more will now do the same.

It will be interesting now to see what will happen. If Fine Gael kicks the two of them out for not voting for Lola O'Sullivan, in a way it says that they agree with what happened in Dungarvan.

In my own humble opinion, for whats its worth, I think the Party Whip thing with all parties should be scrapped and those we elect should be allowed to vote on what ever as they see fit. I am sure if it was to happen we would live in a much better place, as those elected would do the right thing, and we would not be in the mess we are in now if they were allowed to vote on issues as they see fit.

Smiley Burnett

Very unusual for a councillor to vote against a colleague because of poor political judgement!!! Interesting to see what happens next??

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Very unusual for a councillor to vote against a colleague because of poor political judgement!!! Interesting to see what happens next??

Sure will be. Listening to Ann Marie Power on WLR this morning, she seems to be lining herself up to be kicked out of Fine Gael. Am sure Maxine Keoghan will face the same. If they are, and are not brought back in by 2014 for the next local elections (which they could well be if they are kicked out), what damage will it do to Fine Gael in the Tramore area. Maybe not much in so far as Maxine is concerned. I stand to be corrected on this but was she not once a member of the labour party and transfered over when she did not get some nomination. She may well have some labour support and a personal support, but Ann Marie Power could have a large Fine Gael support.

ShatterResistant

@Black Suir

I don't see why Ann Marie Power and Maxine Keoghan voted against though. RE: the Planning, the town was after masssive job losses in the years previously, and this was an opportunity to create some new jobs. At that time nobody knew what Forsey was being investigated in relation to so it must have seemed like a good decision to allow it at the time. A court has found Forsey guilty and investigated the developers finances meticulously and noone else was connected to it.

This was very unfair on Lola who has been a Councillor for ten years, just because she made what was, at the time, to the best of her knowledge, a balanced decision that would favour the town, she lost out.

Perhaps it was a political stunt to vote against her last night?

But thats just my wreckoning of it!

Brick Session

Slightly related and slightly off topic a little but it does concern Tramore Fine Gael councillors or one in particular.

Is (Cllr) Tom Raine still an active town councillor repesenting Fine Gael? He is listed on WCC website as still being an elected rep.

ex_infantry man

Brick Session wrote: »

Slightly related and slightly off topic a little but it does concern Tramore Fine Gael councillors or one in particular.

Is (Cllr) Tom Raine still an active town councillor repesenting Fine Gael? He is listed on WCC website as still being an elected rep.

yeah but apparently he's residing in wales???

fjw

are our politicians starting to grow conciences or are they using their positions to settle old scores. you decide

Brick Session

ex_infantry man wrote: »

yeah but apparently he's residing in wales???

How does that work?

fjw

shows what he was doing when no one missed him ,hopefully a few more will move over with him

Black Suir

ex_infantry man wrote: »

yeah but apparently he's residing in wales???

A NEw Ross Town Councillor is in Australia. Held his seat up to recent. Think he still does.

CantGetNoSleep

Do they get any salary or is it just expenses?

Town Councils need to be scrapped, and maybe even County Councils too.

I will send a letter to Raine

Finnbar01

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Do they get any salary or is it just expenses?

Town Councils need to be scrapped, and maybe even County Councils too.

I will send a letter to Raine

You're a man after me own heart. We have something like 1,600 councillours. I say we could get rid of 75% of them.

Black Suir

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Do they get any salary or is it just expenses?

Town Councils need to be scrapped, and maybe even County Councils too.

I will send a letter to Raine

If you listen to some Councillors, what they get is not worth talking about. When Fred Forsey was in Court recently he said he was getting was it €65 a week to be a councillor. I am sure if some of them were smart, and worked there expenses, they could do quite well out of doing the job with the espenses etc.

Black Suir

Finnbar01 wrote: »

You're a man after me own heart. We have something like 1,600 councillours. I say we could get rid of 75% of them.

We have is it 23 in the COunty, 15 in the city, and nine each in Lismore, Dungarvan and Tramore. For a county our size this is too much. I hope that Phil Hogan decides that Waterford City and COunty Should be merged and then makes a call that the three town councils should be scrapped. Get the electorate boundaries then re-drawn. Some of them especially in the county make absolute no sense. I know of one Parish and it is broken up into three different electorate areas. Total madness, especially as you only see some of the councillors when its comes to an election. If we had saw just under 30 councillors in the whole of Waterford, representing bigger areas than they now, and given a little more than they do now for their extra work, maybe we might have a better county.

blankAs

the question should be, what has miss lola done? the councilors have done this for a reason that im sure they dont want the plebs to be informed as, or do they? will they tell their real reasons in the interests of transparency?
delighted joe conway is now the mayor, perhaps now there may be a little more fairness and realism brought to the town.

Black Suir

blankAs wrote: »

the question should be, what has miss lola done? the councilors have done this for a reason that im sure they dont want the plebs to be informed as, or do they? will they tell their real reasons in the interests of transparency?
delighted joe conway is now the mayor, perhaps now there may be a little more fairness and realism brought to the town.

Is he anything to Ciara.

brickvan

this flanking manouver by maxine & ann marie was the result of years of waiting for the right moment, the fued in fine gael in tramore has been simmering for years . this is just the tip of the iceberg a lot of messing amongst em has been goung on for a long time, as for tom raine if he is in wales living, he should resign without delay

ex_infantry man

Black Suir wrote: »

Is he anything to Ciara.

funnily enough ciara's dads name is joe conway but it aint the councillor joe conway and he actually thought english in cbs tramore when i was there don't know if he still is???

blankAs

can anyone confirm is tom raine actually in wales, how long hes there and perhaps, why he is there?

Yaxihy

blankAs wrote: »

the question should be, what has miss lola done? the councilors have done this for a reason that im sure they dont want the plebs to be informed as, or do they? will they tell their real reasons in the interests of transparency?
delighted joe conway is now the mayor, perhaps now there may be a little more fairness and realism brought to the town.

Publicity stunts are valid reasons in politics aswell you know.... just because two councillors throw the toys out of the pram, its foolish to believe they've instantly captured the moral high ground, especially when you consider one of the two, accepted a nomination for mayor only last June from Cllr O'Sullivan. One would wonder, why not raise your concerns re transparency then, rather than casually accept the nomination, serve your 12 months as mayor, and then kick up a fuss

Brick Session

blankAs wrote: »

can anyone confirm is tom raine actually in wales, how long hes there and perhaps, why he is there?

Saw him around Tramore in the past week or so.

ShatterResistant

Black Suir wrote: »

We have is it 23 in the COunty, 15 in the city, and nine each in Lismore, Dungarvan and Tramore. For a county our size this is too much. I hope that Phil Hogan decides that Waterford City and COunty Should be merged and then makes a call that the three town councils should be scrapped. Get the electorate boundaries then re-drawn. Some of them especially in the county make absolute no sense. I know of one Parish and it is broken up into three different electorate areas. Total madness, especially as you only see some of the councillors when its comes to an election. If we had saw just under 30 councillors in the whole of Waterford, representing bigger areas than they now, and given a little more than they do now for their extra work, maybe we might have a better county.

I'd agree that town councils should be abolished and the rate base absorbed into the county council and that the electoral boundaries need to be moved to mirror a bit more common sense. You could cut the county council by a few as well but maybe merging city and county is a step too far. Its a whole different ball game with a city mayor who will call on city Councillors to speak etc. How much does a city Councillor know about roads in Ardmore? A Dungarvan based Councillor has an idea what issues are faced in Dunmore or Tramore. Anyways the directors of services at the top are protected under the Croke Park Agreement so little would be saved on the administrative side.

Anyone going to the Dungarvan Town Council AGM tonight?

Black Suir

hooli07 wrote: »

I'd agree that town councils should be abolished and the rate base absorbed into the county council and that the electoral boundaries need to be moved to mirror a bit more common sense. You could cut the county council by a few as well but maybe merging city and county is a step too far. Its a whole different ball game with a city mayor who will call on city Councillors to speak etc. How much does a city Councillor know about roads in Ardmore? A Dungarvan based Councillor has an idea what issues are faced in Dunmore or Tramore. Anyways the directors of services at the top are protected under the Croke Park Agreement so little would be saved on the administrative side.

Anyone going to the Dungarvan Town Council AGM tonight?

I wonder will Fine Gael be united in the Old Boro.

Sully

I was away when this happened, but I had a suspicion it wouldn't go smoothly (not thinking for a second that the FG colleagues would abstain) after being told it probably wouldn't by one of the councilors on the Town Council. Looking back, it appears it was privately known the cart would be rocked on the night by some anyway.

I don't think for one second that the councilors were refusing to vote for Cllr O'Sullivan because of the vote she supported at County Council level. I very much doubt that these councilors have not made mistakes in the past, made a poor call when voting for a rezoning of land (if applicable) which was overturned and subjected to an investigation by the Gardai, subsequently resulting in a former councilor being convicted and jailed for six years.

In principal, I don't mind any councilor standing up and trying to point out serious issues with how other councilors may have behaved. It would be great if all local and national government officials took such a stand and action was taken on the serious issues (eg Mick Wallace). I would have preferred that this was dealt with privately. Both Cllrs didn't decide on a whim, and they should have approached Cllr O'Sullivan and told her to withdraw from the race as they would be abstaining and outlining their reasons. I assume this wasn't done.

This particular one, is very serious no doubt but I don't believe that there was any hidden agenda in the Co. Council land vote other than trying to give the green light to a project that might give way to new jobs, which we still badly need in our County. A mistake was made, some got it right and some got it wrong. No money exchanged hands, there was no corruption - just a daft mistake one would probably later regret.

You have the issue that was raised here, and two FG Councilors deciding not to vote. But, surely just as serious was the complaints made by councilors with planning that was accepted by the council but subsequently overturned by An Bord Plenala. When the Bord refused planning on appeal, some councilors still came out publicly and complained that the councils decision was overturned. Even complaining that people could make an appeal and cause such developments to be blocked. An Bord Plenala have a mind of their own and will make a call either way based on both sides of the argument, the facts and so on. They don't refuse planning for the craic or just because a group of people are opposed. So, based on the principals the councilors are rightfully applying in theory - they shouldn't stand for re-election and shouldn't look for the position of Mayor.

Eg;
http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/an-bord-pleanala-rejects-aldi%E2%80%99s-tramore-proposal/

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/cwsnidcwql/

http://www.munster-express.ie/letters-to-the-editor/a-project-was-that-was-never-viable/

A sample of our councilors making a stand against the higher planning authority in Ireland who dismissed the councils acceptance of various developments in Tramore. Is this not just as serious as what Cllr O'Sullivan did? One oversight, one mistake, compared to people complaining when a higher authority refused large developments in Tramore which had a large number of objections?

(N.B. Its important to remember now, that the councilors didn't have a say publicly in the planning going ahead, bar supporting it. This was decided by the council planning department)

rasper

time to move away from the parish politics and the corruption its coupled with, why do we need elected puppets to maintain the roads, surely seeing that munster is not much over 1.25 million people and 10 sq miles, could one provincial county not oversee fire brigades, roads , parks etc while waste money on duplicated roles and risk corruption on inexperienced councillors

Black Suir

rasper wrote: »

time to move away from the parish politics and the corruption its coupled with, why do we need elected puppets to maintain the roads, surely seeing that munster is not much over 1.25 million people and 10 sq miles, could one provincial county not oversee fire brigades, roads , parks etc while waste money on duplicated roles and risk corruption on inexperienced councillors

Agree 100%. How many people have we living in Waterford. I know we have 60 plus councillors, (Town, County and City) and most of them are nothing but a waste of time, who love the sound of their own voice, who love the chance to have a camera pointed at them and who are in it for what they can get out of the position rather that what they put in, the double jobbers prove this. They however will not agree and tell us all about the wonderful work they are doing for us. She should over half the amount we have, maybe give the ones we have then a little more for their extra work load and maybe we might have a better place. If we had one or two councillors elected to represent the towns in the county, maybe 6 or 9 in the city, have the boundaries in the county re-drawn and have 10 or 12 elected to represent us on one single council we'd have a better place, but it wont happen. Turkeys wont vote for Christmas etc.

Siamsa Sessions

This Tramore/FG/Mayor issue is moving up the political agenda now and is the lead story in this fortnight's Phoenix magazine.

Their essence of the story is that Cllr. Anne Marie Power and Cllr. Maxine Keoghan (whose names it seems the long post above can't bring itself to mention ) are being disciplined for not voting for Cllr. Lola O'Sullivan.

Lifting the lid a little, it seems Anne Marie and Maxine are aligned with John Deasy, who was on the rebel side against Enda Kenny in the failed coup two years ago.

Deasy's party colleague and constituency rival, Paudie Coffey is aligned with Senator Maurice Cummins who also happens to be a cousin of a certain Cllr. Lola O'Sullivan.

Maybe the Phoenix is stirring it up a bit, but it's all coming across as a messy and murky affair.

[cue long winding riposte ]

Sully

An update.. Both those Cllrs have lost the party whip, temporarily. They are to appeal this.

Siamsa Sessions

From Saturday's Irish Times:

"FG admits rezoning move 'ill-advised'

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1020/1224325506304.html

CantGetNoSleep

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

From Saturday's Irish Times:

"FG admits rezoning move 'ill-advised'

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1020/1224325506304.html

They will still find a way to blame that on FF

Sully

It appears that those who voted in favour and those who didn't had different information. Seems to be a bit of anger within FG that Lola & other FG Cllrs did not have the information that Cllr Power seems to have had which is why she abstained.