Fire escape from bedroom?

Caitriona9

Hi, I'm new to Boards, so not sure if I'm posting this in the right place...

My question is whether a bedroom off a kitchen is an inner room. The kitchen has a very small utility room outside it and the back door is off the utility room. The bedroom has no windows; just a vented rooflight that cannot be opened. The owner of the house in question maintains that since the distance from the bedroom to the back door is less than 4m, it complies with building regulations for fire escapes. However, I haven't found anything in TGD B that backs up this claim.

Does anyone know if this room can be classed as a bedroom or any habitable room?

BryanF

Caitriona9 wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to Boards, so not sure if I'm posting this in the right place...

My question is whether a bedroom off a kitchen is an inner room. The kitchen has a very small utility room outside it and the back door is off the utility room. The bedroom has no windows; just a vented rooflight that cannot be opened. The owner of the house in question maintains that since the distance from the bedroom to the back door is less than 4m, it complies with building regulations for fire escapes. However, I haven't found anything in TGD B that backs up this claim.

Does anyone know if this room can be classed as a bedroom or any habitable room?

the bedroom has no window- thats enough for me, NO WAY can it be a habitable room

muffler

Couple of posts above moved from a dynastoric thread to here.

richban

I agree with BRYANF -

TGD B (2006) Page 17 describes a habitable room:

Habitable room - A room used for living or
sleeping purposes but does not include a kitchen
having a floor area less than 6.5 m2, a bathroom,
toilet or shower room.

TGD F - Ventilation (2009) describes a habitable room:

Habitable room: A room in a dwelling
used for living or sleeping purposes but
does not include a kitchen having a floor
area of less than 6.5 m2.

TGD B (2006) Section 1.5.2(i) says:

(i) any habitable room which is an inner room
should be provided with a window for escape
or rescue in accordance with 1.5.6.

TGD F - Ventilation (2009) in Table 1:

TGD F - Ventilation (2009) requires:
Habitable Rooms to have purge ventilation (window/door only) equivalent in area to 1/20th of room

Don't see how you could call this a habitable room!

sydthebeat

Caitriona9 wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to Boards, so not sure if I'm posting this in the right place...

My question is whether a bedroom off a kitchen is an inner room. The kitchen has a very small utility room outside it and the back door is off the utility room. The bedroom has no windows; just a vented rooflight that cannot be opened. The owner of the house in question maintains that since the distance from the bedroom to the back door is less than 4m, it complies with building regulations for fire escapes. However, I haven't found anything in TGD B that backs up this claim.

Does anyone know if this room can be classed as a bedroom or any habitable room?

as has already been said:

1. yes it is an inner room
2. no it cannot be classed as a bedroom
3. no it cannot be classed as a habitable room.

What the owner is asserting has no basis in TGD B whatsoever.

Mellor

This room needs a fire escape window to be classed as anything other than a storeroom/study.

The kitchen is a very common fire source point for domestic fires. If that were to happen, regardless of the fact its 4m to exit, then it is likely that this would be the first room cut off by the fire. It should be obvious that a room in this location has an the greater requirement for a escape window compared to one on the other side of the house.

No6

How old is the house, it would want to be pre 1991. It would not be classed as a bedroom under current regulations.

Caitriona9

The house was built in the 1950s and the bedroom in question is part of an extension that may have been built before 1991. The owner bought the house twelve years ago and was assured that it complied with regulations back then.

Is it the case that only buildings constructed after 1991 are required to comply with what is in the Technical Guidance Documents, and if so, are there any guidelines available that deal with houses built before that?

BryanF

Caitriona,
what are actually asking?

my humble opinion/ summation of the situation:
the owner was duped by auctioneer, eng or arch into thinking this bedroom was acceptable. its not. whether it was built pre 91 or not, doesn't really matter, as it shouldn't be used or sold as a bedroom.

Mellor

Caitriona9 wrote: »

The house was built in the 1950s and the bedroom in question is part of an extension that may have been built before 1991. The owner bought the house twelve years ago and was assured that it complied with regulations back then.

Is it the case that only buildings constructed after 1991 are required to comply with what is in the Technical Guidance Documents, and if so, are there any guidelines available that deal with houses built before that?

The room as built doesn't breech any regulations, now or then.
The room used as a bedroom does.

When the house was sold in 2000, that room shouldn't have been listed as it didn't comply. Or that fact should have been made clear.

richban

IN general, before building regs, we had bye law approval. Each county council had there own sets of bye laws on various subjects - sanitation, structure etc. but as far as I've seen, no firm pattern and different in each area. I really have no idea as to whether fire escape was covered.

Back in January I contacted Dublin City Council to see if they had copies of old Dublin County Council bye-laws - they had NOTHING at all on file anywhere.

Section 22(7) of the Building Control Act 1990 did provide an 'amnesty' situation for anyone who did'nt seek bye-law approval - it meant that even if you did not apply for approval, you were deemed to have obtained approval unless you'd been served a notice by the council. Without this, there would have been a lot of buildings/extensions in a legal grey area heading into the new Building Regulation regime.

Maybe theres something in this for you - check it out - best of luck. Seems like you're under fair pressure to provide something paperwork in this instance but 2 wrongs don't make a right - good luck

Caitriona9

Thanks everyone for the replies. They've been very helpful and have confirmed what I suspected from the start - that this room is not suitable as a bedroom and should never have been described as one.

No6, I don't fully understand what you meant by saying it would want to be pre 1991. Judging by the other replies on this thread, it shouldn't matter what year the house was built should it?

Anyway, regardless of the regulations, the question that matters is whether this room is safe to use as a bedroom, and the answer to that is an emphatic no!

By the way, I probably should have pointed out in the original post that I was asking the question on behalf of a prospective buyer. I'm not looking for a way of getting around the regulations or anything like that. Maybe the owner is, but that's her problem, not mine

Mellor

Caitriona9 wrote: »

Anyway, regardless of the regulations, the question that matters is whether this room is safe to use as a bedroom, and the answer to that is an emphatic no!

Adding window suitable for escape is a reasonably straightforward job. And would make the bedroom compliant. Assuming, one of the walls is external

Caitriona9

Mellor wrote: »

Adding window suitable for escape is a reasonably straightforward job. And would make the bedroom compliant. Assuming, one of the walls is external

No, there are three internal walls and a party wall, so no wall is suitable for windows. I suppose that's why there is only a rooflight. A velux window that can be opened could be put in, but it would be too high off the floor to count as a fire escape. This is the third house that I've seen recently with this problem.