Future of Irish politics and immigration [mod note #58]

Gurgle

Bambi wrote: »

Won't change the fact that they were born to an immigrant parent or that many of them won't be ethnically Irish

That fact is irrelevant.
If they're raised in Ireland side by side with 'ethnically Irish' kids, they're Irish. Its happening already, my kids have friends in school whose parents come from all over the world. Listening to them, you wouldn't know which ones were which. Some of them have obviously foreign first names, some of them have different coloured skin but if (:rolleyes:) you can get over that they're all talking about the same things with the same accents.

Bambi wrote: »

blah blah blah dey tuk our swans blah

whatever

Bambi wrote: »

off you go and check the CSO's website, they might not stick that figure on the front page though.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2009/chapter2_2009.pdf

In 2009
75.7% of mothers’ were of Irish nationality

5% Born to Irish father and foreign mother, would they qualify for Irishness in your book? Or should they be stoned for dirtying the gene pool?

89.3% were to a mother from the EU. Mostly the same political structure and ideology, also mostly christian, will they do?

Only 6.5% were born to parents who were both from outside the EU.

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

A Classic (......) spare.

Why do minorities have problems integrating? Well one of them is the tendency of certain parties to pop up and say "you're not really (x)". You're part of the problem. You're one of the causes of what problems might arise.

Dyr

Gurgle wrote: »

That fact is irrelevant.

Because you desperately want it be? Not how the real world works hoss, go telling the good people of norn iron that ethnicity means nothing. How people align themselves ethnically has a fairly big impact on politics.

If they're raised in Ireland side by side with 'ethnically Irish' kids, they're Irish.

If they're brought up to consider themselves Irish they will be. If not, they won't. How will it pan out? We just don't know. Truth is they will probably consider themselves to be XYZ-Irish.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2009/chapter2_2009.pdf

In 2009
75.7% of mothers’ were of Irish nationality

Good lad, so what does the make the other 25% of mothers? Non Irish? Knew we'd get there in the end.

biko

The face of Irish immigration and politicis will change that's for certain.
For the better or for the worse, I don't know.

According to Guardian the foreign population is 11%, and the majority of those from other EU states.
But we can compare to UK who usually is 10 years ahead of us in regards to everything, certainly fashion.
Is that our future? Could it be?

I think today's politicians needs to look at other EU countries and say, "yes the immigration policy in XXX would suit Ireland too" and make plans now that will affect the country later.

Gurgle

Bambi wrote: »

go telling the good people of norn iron that ethnicity means nothing.

I believe the issues in Northern Ireland were not caused by ethnicity but displacement, oppression, discrimination on religious grounds...
In other words the exact policies you want to apply to foreigners.

Bambi wrote: »

Good lad, so what does the make the other 25% of mothers? Non Irish? Knew we'd get there in the end.

And the rest of the statistics I quoted?

prinz

biko wrote: »

I think today's politicians needs to look at other EU countries and say, "yes the immigration policy in XXX would suit Ireland too" and make plans now that will affect the country later.

In fairness bar a few minor tweaks on an on-going basis as a whole I think the country has done quite well. There's no need to adopt a one-size fits all 'policy'.

biko

From this point on I will ban any problem posters.
Problem poster = not posting in the utmost civil manner.

biko

prinz wrote: »

In fairness bar a few minor tweaks on an on-going basis as a whole I think the country has done quite well. There's no need to adopt a one-size fits all 'policy'.

I disagree, the country is going well yes and it seems the current politics is working. Or perhaps it's a lack of interest in Ireland compared to the bigger EU countries, I don't know.

But it will be too late to fix it later, we need to have clear policies now while the going is good and all/most of us get along just fine.

af_thefragile

biko wrote: »

The face of Irish immigration and politicis will change that's for certain.
For the better or for the worse, I don't know.

According to Guardian the foreign population is 11%, and the majority of those from other EU states.
But we can compare to UK who usually is 10 years ahead of us in regards to everything, certainly fashion.
Is that our future? Could it be?

I think today's politicians needs to look at other EU countries and say, "yes the immigration policy in XXX would suit Ireland too" and make plans now that will affect the country later.

Ireland is very different from UK when it comes to ethnic minorities. In UK most ethnic minorities are from a working class background and there are many ghettos as a result of many years of social segregation.

In Ireland most immigrants are working professionals and they don't live in ghettos. Ireland never had any social seggregation policies and hence the immigrants are fairly integrated into the society here.

Dyr

Gurgle wrote: »

Bambi wrote: »

go telling the good people of norn iron that ethnicity means nothing.

I believe the issues in Northern Ireland were not caused by ethnicity but displacement, oppression, discrimination on religious grounds...
In other words the exact policies you want to apply to foreigners.

You can believe what you want buddy but if you believe that ethnicity is'nt the root cause of the north's problems, then good luck.

Sorta weird that you seem to think that I've put forward any opinion in this thread on policies when it comes to foreigners. You seem to be having an hysterical reaction to anything that even appears to challenge your belief system on this issue. Common enough with this topic and fun to observe.

So anyway, 23% born to non irish mothers. Turned out it was true yeah?

af_thefragile

Bambi wrote: »

Gurgle wrote: »

Bambi wrote: »

go telling the good people of norn iron that ethnicity means nothing.

You can believe what you want buddy but if you believe that ethnicity is'nt the root cause of the north's problems, then good luck.

Sorta weird that you seem to think that I've put forward any opinion in this thread on policies when it comes to foreigners. You seem to be having an hysterical reaction to anything that even appears to challenge your belief system on this issue. Common enough with this topic and fun to observe.

So anyway, 23% born to non irish mothers. Turned out it was true yeah?

What about the 5% of those 23% who are born to an Irish father? Are they not Irish enough?

And the 83% of the 23% born to EU parents, don't they have a right to be in Ireland considering Ireland is part of the EU?

Gurgle

Bambi wrote: »

So anyway, 23% born to non irish mothers. Turned out it was true yeah?

Yes, you were correct.
Well done. Clap clap.

But the fact that only 6.5% are born to parents from outside the EU doesn't affect your case in any way?

Bambi wrote: »

You can believe what you want buddy but if you believe that ethnicity is'nt the root cause of the north's problems, then good luck.

I believe ignorance is the root cause of most of the world's problems. It leads to people filling in the gaps in their knowledge by making up crap they want to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Demography

In terms of ethnicity, the population of Northern Ireland is almost entirely white (99.15%). 91% of people are Northern Ireland born, with 4.8% being born in the elsewhere in UK and 2.3% being born in the Republic of Ireland. Irish Travellers accounted for 0.1% of the population. The largest non-white ethnic groups were Asians (0.4%), of which Chinese accounted for 60.7%, Indian for 23% and Pakistani for 9.8% of the total. Black people of various origins accounted for 0.06% of the population of Northern Ireland and people of mixed ethnicity accounted for 0.2%.

Dyr

What case?
That they weren't born to Irish mothers?
That having a sizeable number of children born to immigrant parents is going to change irish politics?

What does your attempt at qualification and whataboutery have to with that?
You actually gone through the bleedin fordiner thread response scale at an alarming rate:

Deny: It's not happening (and you're probably a racist if you say othewise)

Qualify: It is happening but not that much (and you're probably a racist if you say otherwise)

Dismiss: Its happening but it doesn't make any difference (and you're probably a racist if you say otherwise)

Thats sorta impressive.

Dyr

Gurgle wrote: »

I believe ignorance is the root cause of most of the world's problems. It leads to people filling in the gaps in their knowledge by making up crap they want to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Demography

Oh f**k me, a wiki link. That's this thread settled. Lock her down mods, there's no arguing with old man wiki.

I'll see your wiki link and raise you another one :P

"An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other through a common heritage, consisting of a common culture, including a shared language or dialect. The group's ethos or ideology may also stress common ancestry, religion, or race.[1][2][3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic

af_thefragile

Whats exactly "happening"??

What am I to expect?

Should I start stocking up on food and firearms?

Gurgle

Bambi wrote: »

You actually gone through the bleedin fordiner thread response scale at an alarming rate

Thank you, I do my best to disparage the nonsense peddled by the "I'm not racialist, but..." brigade at every opportunity. Its great to see you've given up any attempt to justify your posts.

Ultimately you and I probably couldn't agree on the colour of the sky. You refuse to recognize the Irishness of mixed race children, I believe racial merging is the only chance of a better future for the human race.

On the issue of the changing political landscape: The sooner the better, how can we speed up the process?

Dyr

Gurgle wrote: »

Thank you, I do my best to disparage the nonsense peddled by the "I'm not racialist, but..." brigade at every opportunity. Its great to see you've given up any attempt to justify your posts.

Ultimately you and I probably couldn't agree on the colour of the sky. You refuse to recognize the Irishness of mixed race children, I believe racial merging is the only chance of a better future for the human race.

On the issue of the changing political landscape: The sooner the better, how can we speed up the process?

I've just no interest in justifying whatever weirdness you try to infer from my posts.

Mixed race is the issue here for you? Now that's just weird. Maybe mixed race strawmen.


TBH the racial merging being the future of humanity schtick makes me realise that you're actually a eugenicist, no wonder your posts were verging on hysteria. :eek:

Zebra3

Always interesting to hear most Irish people use the word immigarnt. They mainly use it to refer to black people or those they think are muslims.

Doesn't tend to be used to refer to (white) French, Germans, Brits or Americans

mikemac1

Zebra3 wrote: »

Doesn't tend to be used to refer to (white) French, Germans, Brits or Americans

They call themselves ex-pats

The Brits do anyway in newspaper reports and the comment sections of online articles

Brits in Dubai are expats
Somalis in Britain are immigrants

celtictiger32

Nodin wrote: »

One guy and his "organisation". Liam Egan aka whatever he calls himself now. If you can call him, his mate and his missus "a section of the muslim commuinty", you're correct.

there was some other guy aswell cant think of his name he claimed to represent some islamic group.

Nodin

celtictiger32 wrote: »

there was some other guy aswell cant think of his name he claimed to represent some islamic group.

He calls himself Mujahid something or other, so its probably the same guy.

biko

I think people often make the mistake of referring to immigrants as some large homogeneous group when nothing could be further from the truth.
They are an extremely diverse group and some will fit better into Irish society than others. Some might not even want to.

Mostly when people say immigrants are trouble they mean "Muslims are trouble". The image of a Muslim as some brown skinned, headgear wearing, crazy person should, and must, be cast aside.
When referring to Muslims there are as many nationalities, races and aspects as there are of Christians.

oxo_

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.
More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.
So who is the foreigner really and besides, not a lot the Irish people have to offer the world in regards good looks.
More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

oxo_

oxo_ wrote: »

More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.

Speak for your fu-kin' self, mate!

I would agree there's a lot of places in Ireland badly in need of expanding their gene pools, but saying there's African, Spanish, and Arab roots in "every" Irish person yet we still need more foreigners to breed the ugliness out of "us"? Jesus, that's just confused!

af_thefragile

oxo_ wrote: »

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.
More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.
So who is the foreigner really and besides, not a lot the Irish people have to offer the world in regards good looks.
More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

That's too complicated.

People are either white, black, brown, yellow or a mix of those shades...

oxo_

What about the incredible hulk ? He's green. You got something against green people huh ?

Doc Ruby

oxo_ wrote: »

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.

...

More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

Can you make up your mind which baseless slander you're running with, I'm getting mixed signals here.

celtictiger32

oxo_ wrote: »

What about the incredible hulk ? He's green. You got something against green people huh ?

most definitely, do you really want topless lads with ripped trousers running around the streets? not to mention he cost me a fortune the last time he appeared in a movie:D

golden lane

mikemac1 wrote: »

They call themselves ex-pats

The Brits do anyway in newspaper reports and the comment sections of online articles

Brits in Dubai are expats
Somalis in Britain are immigrants

expats....usually refers to people working abroad......with intentions of returning to the home country...

it has been widely misused lately....

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

expats....usually refers to people working abroad......with intentions of returning to the home country...

it has been widely misused lately....

except for the last two years....uk emigration has usually exceeded immigration into the uk....

in the past ten years......approx 80% of all new jobs created in the uk, have been taken by immigrants.....

mikemac1

oxo_ wrote: »

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

And yet you want to take our Shannon water

Nodin

celtictiger32 wrote: »

most definitely, do you really want topless lads with ripped trousers running around the streets? ...

You must mean "more topless lads with ripped trousers...."

DonQuay1

mikemac1 wrote: »

And yet you want to take our Shannon water

It won't be long before 'Carrick-on-Shannon' is a suburb of Dublin (I mean the main road in is already marked on maps as the 'Dublin Road'!) - with or without an Immigrant exploded population - and then it'll be Carrick-in-Dublin .... which means it'll be Dublins Shannon water .......

D3V1L

oxo_ wrote: »

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.
More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.
So who is the foreigner really and besides, not a lot the Irish people have to offer the world in regards good looks.
More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

That's laughable this has to be a joke on your part, but let me play devils advocate for you & i will.
You are inciting Genocide you should be aware that's not allowed under international law.
Article 2 (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;




Are you? and was that a joke on my part no I'm been dead serious. See if you where talking about any other group besides White people needing to be altered genetically you would be in trouble on here so quick...yet this is fine banter we are Whites in Ireland & presumably we have lost our right to be protected from Genocide in-fact we haven't so be careful.

Are Korean's a race to you? If not would it fine to call for their genocide through massive non-Korean immigration & forced assimilation?
How about that i want to know if you apply the same guidelines for all other people's on the earth that you apply to White people or are you only Anti-White?

Sonnenblumen

wandererz wrote: »

Numbers are too low to cause division on ethnic and cultural votes.
Voting from immigrants will more likely than not be based on real identifiable issues rather than die hard loyalty in my opinion.
With that said, look at the number of die hard Fianna Failures who changed sides and voted Fianna Gael the last time around.
Hopefully people have copped on.
Also, Ireland now hopefully has a generation of broader minded people who grew up in the late 20th and early 21st century and who vote with their feet rather than their familial ties.

In a way, Ireland already has one immigrant influence in government in Varadkar.
Although, lets hope that does not continue in the same way and that we have stronger representation in the future.

I say that as an immigrant myself AND also looking at the rest of the current government - who seem to have done well in the opposition benches berating the previous government though being incapable of conducting a cohesive non-scripted and intelligent conversation now that they are in government.

It's sad really. They all spent years and years berating and promising so much yet not a single intelligent idea between any of them to resolve this crisis.
And to be honest, when was the last time we heard anything worthwhile from the red-headed git himself.

The sooner the country is out of factionary politics, the better.....probably...

Well you would say that, wouldn't you.

RaRaRasputin

luckyfrank wrote: »

A time bomb is ticking and no one knows when it is going to explode,but one thing is for sure it will explode.One of the reasons why Islam is growing in the West it is because of demography,Western countries have a negative population rate,while Muslim countries have a positive and Muslims are colonizing the West.In the last decades across the Western World Islam is spreading like a wild-fire and everyone knows that with the growth of the Muslim population come problems of a unprecedented magnitude.Riots,crime,rapes,terrorism are just of the few problems which the West faces with Islamization,but also the cultural transformation of West into Islam.More and more we see that traditional Islamic customs are accepted in Western societies and that leads to conflict.Some experts agree that a civil war in Europe is inevitable,unless if the non-Muslim population does something,but time is running out and the options are shrinking.

Islam spreads in the West through migration of Muslims in the West,high fertility rate of Muslims in the West and the conversion of non-Muslims into Islam.This problem is getting worse by each year and the future might be dark for non-Muslims in Europe.It is estimated that across the European continent there are 54 million Muslims (link),but those numbers will double in 2015 (link),so if the non-Muslim population across the continent doesn’t begin the process of Rechristianization which will turn the tide of Muslim population growth,Europe in the next century will become a Muslim continent and will become the extension of the Muslim World which its center is the Middle East.Unfortunately,non-Muslim Europeans doesn’t seem to care about this,too many of them are brainwashed by the anti-Christian left-wing propaganda machine and Europe is dying.

Here are nine statistics about the Muslim population growth in the West which will make you nervous:

1.In Austria in 1971 there were only 22200 Muslims (0.3%),today it is estimated that there are between 400000 and 500000 Muslims living in the country (6%) (link),already some parts of Vienna have a Muslim majority (link)

2.In Belgium in 2008 Islam has become the largest minority religion in the country with 628751 members (link) and the city of Brussels which is the capital of Belgium and the EU has a Muslim population of 25.5% (link) and Brussels will have a Muslim majority in 2030 (link)

3.France prohibits performing census based on religion and race,but it is estimated that the number of Muslims in the country is about 5-10% of the population (link) and the Muslim population of Marseille has reached 30-40% (link) which means it will become a Muslim-majority city in just a few years

4.In Germany the number of Muslims is currently estimated at 4.3 million (5.4%) of the population (link) and it is the largest minority religion in the country and it is estimated that Germany will become a Muslim state in 2050 (link)

5.In 1980 Norway had only 1006 Muslims,but in 2010 Muslims number 98953 (link) and the growth of the Muslim population in Norway which is not a member of the EU has caused a rape epidemic in Oslo where the majority of Muslims live (link)

6.Besides the Chechnya and the regions around (Dagestan and Ingushetia) which have a Muslim majority (link),in Moscow the number of Muslims is estimated at 1.5 million,while the whole country has a population of 20 million Muslims (link)

7.Spain has a Muslim population just over one million,but it will increase in 2030 by 82% (link),in 1992 the Spanish town of Salt had only 5% of Muslims,but in 2010 the Muslim population is 50% and crime has skyrocketed from 156 in 1992 to 5000 in 2010 (link)

8.Sweden has currently 400000 Muslims,while in 1930 only 15 (link),Malmo which is located in Southern Sweden has 25% Muslim population (link),that caused a Jewish exodus from Malmo (link),while the growth of the Muslim population across the country caused a rape epidemic (link).Danish journalist Lars Hedegaard said that Sweden will have a Muslim majority by 2049 (link)

9.Currently in the USA there are 2.6 million Muslims,but their number will double in 2030 when it will be 6.2 million (link)

So will the growth of the Muslim population stop?Of course not because they are migrating in large number to the West and they have a higher fertility rate,but our leaders are doing nothing to stop them,besides that Cameron,Sarkozy and Merkel claim that Multiculturalism failed and that there needs to be a policy change,but there isn’t any political will to stop the Muslim conquest of the West without guns and bombs.The responsibility is of course on the Christian church which is doing next to nothing,instead of evangelizing the Muslim population and Rechristianizing the non-Muslim Europeans which are slowly dying,the Church doesn’t seem to care about this besides that churches across the West are being turned into mosques.

But when the Muslim population grows enough then the real consequences will be seen and it will be a disaster for the non-Muslim Europeans which allowed it to happen

Anders? Anders, is that you???

I couldn't think of a worse idea than a forced reiteration of Christianity in Irish society. You people are just freeing yourself from this nonsense, so just make sure you keep state and church separate and don't tolerate too much foreign influences = problem solved.

I lived in a muslim-dominated area for years, and whilst many of the neighbours were very nice and sociable there was a high percentage of muslim knackers depending on social welfare who spent the days annoying other people. By the way, all the other immigrants were grand and didn't make any trouble.

seanduffy3

oxo_ wrote: »

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.
More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.
So who is the foreigner really and besides, not a lot the Irish people have to offer the world in regards good looks.
More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

You are justifying the genocide of whites.

This is why when we reasonably ask for a full discussion of the genocide law implications of forcing mass immigration and "assimilation" only on white countries there is silence from the anti-white leadership.

Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-white.

Mena

seanduffy3 wrote: »

Anti-racist is just a code word for anti-white.

Didn't they ban you twice already for spouting this nonsensical crap?

VEN

oxo_ wrote: »

Get rid of all the culchies out of Dublin and I'll be happy.
All the foreigners from other countries can stay.

Culchies go home !

Anyway, Irish people aren't a particular race, nor were we ever. If anything, we're probably the most mixed race in the world.
More African, Spanish and Arab DNA in every Irish person than even a hint of pillaging Celts.
So who is the foreigner really and besides, not a lot the Irish people have to offer the world in regards good looks.
More foreigners please, help us breed the ugliness out - country as a whole has been inbred for far too long !

jeepers, wheres the moderator on this???

i'm a white pale skinned ugly man by the way, a whitey or whatever, i couldnt care what you call me.

do you think africa has been inbreeding for far too long? are they ugly too?

who cares about all this anyway, we shouldnt care. let them destroy themselves or create another war. we'll all be dead by then anyway.

VEN

golden lane wrote: »

in the past ten years......approx 80% of all new jobs created in the uk, have been taken by immigrants.....

true, very true. i can see civil war. you can say all ye like 'well it hasnt happened up to now' well hehe my friends we've an economic problem right now. put it this way, i wouldnt like to be an immigrant in greece right now. would you feel safe?

keep adding fuel to the fire mr shatter, the riots on uk last year is not even the start of it.

VEN

Gurgle wrote: »

89.3% were to a mother from the EU. Mostly the same political structure and ideology, also mostly christian, will they do?

and the dogs on the street know it

Gurgle wrote: »

Only 6.5% were born to parents who were both from outside the EU.

Can i see the one where just the mothers or the fathers were from 'outside' the EU? youve given me the EU one. thanks

edit: oh no, i found it, the 23%. thats quite high, though it will be higher again next year. wheres all the food going to come from to feed
the future worlds population? its not a joke. we are making far too many babbies. rampant like. a bit of sex education and self respect wouldnt go amiss i think. education is great!

IrishAm

prinz wrote: »

Immigration will dramatically change the Irish political landscape will it?

DeV was what half Cuban born in America..Fianna Fáil? Remember Dr Bhamjee Labour TD? Leo Varadkar Fine Gael?

Ireland has always had some sustainable levels of inward immigration. What we have seen in the last decade was neither sustainable or comparable to previous migrations.

Ireland went from having a 1%-17% foreign population in just over a decade. No other western nation has experienced such a dramatic demographic change, per capita, since WW2.

It will drastically change the country. Of that, there can be no doubt. Whether for the better or not, remains to be seen.

DonQuay1

Mena wrote: »

Didn't they ban you twice already for spouting this nonsensical crap?

Link Please. To the banned 'nonsensical crap'. Or - does it not exist? A figment?

Dyr

Straight from the horse's mouth, "diversity" is only good so long as it makes us all the "same".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

The right on PC crowd and multinationals make strange bedfellows on this issue but there you go, must be a fine gael/labour type deal