'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

AVN_1

Should we go Swiss?

'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

The survey, carried out by the MIS Research Institute in Lausanne, has found that 82 percent of Swiss people are against accession talks with the EU, preferring instead to remain with the current bilateral treaty arrangements, newspaper Tages Anzeiger reported. This figure is up from 72 percent last year.

http://www.thelocal.ch/3386/20120524/

charlemont

Should we go Swiss?

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Bullseye1

Why is that? Have you a superior complex or inferior complex?

AVN_1

charlemont wrote: »

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Any arguments to support your view?

kirving

charlemont wrote: »

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Switzerland should give Ireland €100bn tomorrow. There, I did it.

charlemont

AVN_1 wrote: »

Any arguments to support your view?

Yes I sure have, Big difference in our countries, One does not become like Switzerland overnight. How broke are the Swiss today ? Switzerland;A nation run like clockwork. Ireland;A nation run like, um' well not like Switzerland anyway.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why is that? Have you a superior complex or inferior complex?

Well What a question that is.. A stupid question deserves a stupid answer.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Switzerland should give Ireland €100bn tomorrow. There, I did it.

We'd still squander it, It would be like throwing good money after bad.

AVN_1

charlemont wrote: »

Yes I sure have, Big difference in our countries, One does not become like Switzerland overnight. How broke are the Swiss today ? Switzerland;A nation run like clockwork. Ireland;A nation run like, um' well not like Switzerland anyway.

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

Paparazzo

Has to be said :

After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

humanji

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

We're not broke because we joined the Euro. We're broke in spite of it.

AVN_1

humanji wrote: »

We're not broke because we joined the Euro. We're broke in spite of it.

We were in a very good financial and economic shape before joining the Euro, and look where we're now...

Euro is the main problem for a number of countries, including ours.

humanji

Correlation does not imply causation. It's not the Euro that's the problem, it's the utter mismanagement by governments and financial institutions. Leaving the Euro isn't suddenly going to end our problems. We'll still have massive debts.

stringed theory

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

I see absolutely no logic here; it's not even an argument, just some kind of catharsis from a europhobe.
Regarding Switzerland, imagine an Ireland where all the multinational companies here are in fact Irish owned, and the fruit of Irish research and development, and our GDP is the same as our GNP, and we're getting close.

KINGVictor

humanji wrote: »

Correlation does not imply causation. It's not the Euro that's the problem, it's the utter mismanagement by governments and financial institutions. Leaving the Euro isn't suddenly going to end our problems. We'll still have massive debts.

Totally agree with you that the Euro is not the cause of the current crisis; absolutely not. But it's introduction in structurally different economies without a solid framework hugely contributed to the economic problems in the Eurozone. At it's inception, the Euro meant diferent things to different countries; France saw it as a vehicle for achieving European political deepening, Germany saw it as a some sort of redemption, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and other strong economies viewed it as a way of improving their competitiveness. Southern Europe saw it as some sort of attachment to a new economic order that will displace the dollar as the strongest currency and an avenue to benefit from the positive externalities of such a powerful monetary union. It was all a grand dream; but there was an accute failure in laying the necessary foundations of an optimum currency area which paradoxically would have excluded a fourth of the initial members.

I know it has been said ad nauseum but the EZ put the cart before the horse before they adopted a common currency for very dissimilar economies, hence the dilemma they face today. What is good for Germany is hurting Greece and Spain, simply because these countries are structurally different. Germany does not want inflation so the Bundesbank will rather die than allow the ECB be a lender of last resort and pump money into the system. They allowed the ECB to buy sovereign bonds for a while, the ECB embarked on quasi- quantitave easing via the LTROs and that has failed woefully because the banks simply bought soveriegn debts in an attempt to calm the markets instead of the original purpose which was to ease the credit crunch and provide loans to businesses/households.

I dont see this ending well because at the moment, the way the EU is dealing with the problem is a summit after another, one proposal after another. The most intriguing part of it is the lack of cohesion, brinkmanship and game playing. Events in Europe at the moment would form great examples for students of Game theory! France's Hollande makes a case for growth and the pooling of debt and he is supported by the US, UK and most G-7 nations, Germany's Merkel, brilliant woman she is, cleverly puts a spanner in the works by not only insisting on fiscal consolidation at all costs but advocating for a political union, a theory that would be unpopular in her own country, will be very divisive in the rest of Europe especially in a crisis situation and then the big weapon- she said she is open to a two-speed Europe. Genius!

The Euro as a currency isnt the problem but the politics around the creation and management has certainly and continues to be a major factor in the crisis.

paddyandy

We think like Sailors on shore leave that's why we're broke ...always .

CIE

AVN_1 wrote: »

Should we go Swiss?

'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

The survey, carried out by the MIS Research Institute in Lausanne, has found that 82 percent of Swiss people are against accession talks with the EU, preferring instead to remain with the current bilateral treaty arrangements, newspaper Tages Anzeiger reported. This figure is up from 72 percent last year.

http://www.thelocal.ch/3386/20120524/

Won't last forever, i.e. unless enough member states break away to stand with Switzerland. Their neighbour to the east already got them to break their neutrality stance. The architects of this new/old empire won't stand for the Schweiz to be outside it forever.

BKtje

The Swiss have always been a little EU sceptic and it really is no surprise that support has dwindled recently with the catastrophe that currently is the Euro. I would expect opinions to rebound when/if the majority of problems are sorted.

jmayo

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

Funny how some countries that joined the Euro aren't broke and also some countries that didn't join are broke.

The Corinthian

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous attempts at soapboxing that you can get on this topic, and one which is regularly trotted out without and shot down again and again. So...

Ireland is (almost) broke because we had a housing bubble that burst, leading many financial institutions that were heavily exposed in that market to go cap in hand for financial assistance from the government, which in turn had to go to the EU. Nothing more than that.

One could argue, with the benefit of hindsight, that had we still access to monetary tools we could have avoided this bubble, but in reality we already had fiscal tools to do this and instead did the opposite, such as removing taxes on property purchases. So membership of the Eurozone would have made no difference there either.

The Euro ultimately has no part in Ireland's economic plight, no more than it had in the Iceland's financial woes, which were produced without membership of either the Euro or the EU.

As to going 'Swiss', I suspect that those who call for this have absolutely no knowledge of Switzerland. Ignoring, for a moment, differences in both culture and politics, Switzerland is a heavily industrialized nation - Ireland is not. You can drive through even the smallest little villages there and find well established manufacturing industries (not simply one factory, but several) - in Ireland, you'll find call centers much of the time.

But even that ignores why Switzerland is so much better off to begin with, which is the banking industry. Prior to World War II, Switzerland was actually quite poor and it was only as a result of banking secrecy laws (ironically as a response to Nazi Germany paying Swiss officials for information on Jewish bank accounts) that they made their money.

So Ireland has neither Switzerland's (or Liechtenstein's) manufacturing industry or banking sector, nor do we have Norway's natural resources. We're a lot closer to Iceland, with limited resources and industry and highly dependent on the services sector.

But what gets me is that this is not the first such thread you've started, where all you do is throw a soundbite in, much like a hand grenade, and run. For anyone who cares to read your past posts, you've never actually backed up any of your outlandish claims, preferring instead to stick to some soapboxing and then starting a new thread when the old one has been ridiculed sufficiently.

bette

CIE wrote: »

Won't last forever, i.e. unless enough member states break away to stand with Switzerland. Their neighbour to the east already got them to break their neutrality stance. The architects of this new/old empire won't stand for the Schweiz to be outside it forever.

Switzerland has been happily plodding along since 1291.

The Corinthian

bette wrote: »

Switzerland has been happily plodding along since 1291.

It's been lucky.

If you want to read up on how Switzerland has fared when she was surrounded by a single dominant power in western Europe, feel free to look up Helvetic Republic or Operation Tannenbaum.

In both cases the only reason that it was able to 'plod along' was luck.

bette

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's been lucky.

If you want to read up on how Switzerland has fared when she was surrounded by a single dominant power in western Europe, feel free to look up Helvetic Republic or Operation Tannenbaum.

In both cases the only reason that it was able to 'plod along' was luck.

Really? Good man yourself. I know a bit about their history as well. Look up how they managed during the war years. Check out the history of the Migros! There's lots of luck there.

Then the Battle of Morgarten was also graced with good luck.

The luck of the Swiss - even better than the luck of the Irish!

The Corinthian

bette wrote: »

Look up how they managed during the war years.

That was my point; they were lucky. Switzerland was not a priority for Germany, but had Germany won, Switzerland would have been invaded successfully - a fact that even the Swiss were aware of.

Check out the history of the Migros! There's lots of luck there.

What has Migros got to do with Swiss independence?

Then the Battle of Morgarten was also graced with good luck.

And a battle in 1315 debunks the reality that Swiss independence been down to luck ever since? Most of their wars of 'independence' have actually been against each other!

The luck of the Swiss - even better than the luck of the Irish!

That Switzerland retained independence has been largely down to luck. That Switzerland has been prosperous has been largely down to hard work.

Gunmonkey

Paparazzo wrote: »

Has to be said :

After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

Toblerones?

Chuck Stone

Very different countries with very different people. I went for a walk with my then GF in Switzerland and couldn't help but laugh at how they had 'rationalized' the local woods. They had an exercise and stretching plan laid out along the trail on little wooden signs - I kid you not.

BKtje

Most communes seem to have a trail or two, I think they are fantastic!. With mandatory military servive (or similar) they try to aid their army aged population in staying relatively fit (at least the males, females dont have mandatory service).

Chuck Stone

BKtje wrote: »

Most communes seem to have a trail or two, I think they are fantastic!.

Each to their own. I guess I was laughing because it was so different to what you'd get here. My German GF was even surprised at the some of the by-laws and general sense of order there.

With mandatory military servive (or similar) they try to aid their army aged population in staying relatively fit (at least the males, females dont have mandatory service).

You can own and carry an assault rifle if you've been in the army isn't it? For the defence of the country or something along those lines.

The Corinthian

Chuck Stone wrote: »

My German GF was even surprised at the some of the by-laws and general sense of order there.

Why should your German GF not be perplexed - at least no more than any other non-Swiss? Switzerland is not Germany and the Swiss are absolutely nothing like the Germans, something that many Germans you find in Switzerland tend to forget until they actually stay there for a while.

It reminds me of a dinner party I was at in Zurich a few years back; my German GF was explaining to one of the Swiss guests how Dublin was full of Poles, as it was a very popular destination for them for jobs. He smiled and said "we have something similar here, but we call them Germans".

Chuck Stone

The Corinthian wrote: »

Why should your German GF not be perplexed - at least no more than any other non-Swiss? Switzerland is not Germany and the Swiss are absolutely nothing like the Germans, something that many Germans you find in Switzerland tend to forget until they actually stay there for a while.

You've picked me up wrong. I'm fully aware that the Swiss are about as German as the Irish are English - apparently the Swiss will even say 'We're not European - we're Swiss'.

I just found it amusing that a person of a country renowned for fairly strict adherence to societal norms i.e. a German was bemused by the Swiss.

The Corinthian

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You've picked me up wrong. I'm fully aware that the Swiss are about as German as the Irish are English - apparently the Swiss will even say 'We're not European - we're Swiss'.

Aye, I did, sorry. You won't get many Swiss who would deny being European though, outside of some of the more inbred members of the SVP - you'll get the same in Ireland from time to time.

I just found it amusing that a person of a country renowned for fairly strict adherence to societal norms i.e. a German was bemused by the Swiss.

Renowned, yes, but as with most national stereotypes often inaccurate, as is their reputation for Germanic competence; a little experience with Deutsche Telekom will dispel that one quick enough.

But yes, the Swiss can be a bit, ahem, odd.

sarumite

The Swiss economy is based on a banking model that is less compatible with the EU. Our economy is based on exporting to our goods and services to other countries which is enhanced by our membership of the EU.

BKtje

You can own and carry an assault rifle if you've been in the army isn't it? For the defence of the country or something along those lines.

As far as I'm aware they are allowed to bring their weapons home for storage but they are not to be taken out unless going to/from the barracks or during an invasion of course. They are not allowed to bring home ammunition however so am not sure how useful it is, at least officially.

The Corinthian

sarumite wrote: »

The Swiss economy is based on a banking model that is less compatible with the EU.

Suggesting that the Swiss economy is based on a banking model that is less compatible with the EU would be both inaccurate and simplistic. Luxemburg's economy is very much dependent on banking, for example, and the UK financial sector is one of huge importance to her economy; and both are in the EU.

In reality, the Swiss banking system has been largely dependent on Swiss banking secrecy; laws that make it a criminal offense to disclose account information, that were introduced prior to World War II as a reaction to Nazi Germany's practice of paying off Swiss banking officials for the details of the bank accounts of Jewish-Germans. Post-War, this inadvertently became a major selling point as everyone with a bit of money to hide wanted to open an account.

In this regard the good times are over for the Swiss, as international pressure, following 2008, has closed off a number of their markets - this has led to the uncomfortable realization that the Swiss now have to compete with other banking centers (some of whom retain banking secrecy) on a more level playing field.

Our economy is based on exporting to our goods and services to other countries which is enhanced by our membership of the EU.

Actually Switzerland (and especially Lichtenstein) are both heavily industrialized and you will find manufacturing industries in even the smallest little villages in either. Lest we forget, Switzerland is also a major player in both the R&D and manufacture of pharmaceuticals worldwide.

Ireland's industrial infrastructure is a fraction of this. Much of it is service-based (the political emphasis was of quickly creating jobs, not long-term industry, back in the 1990's) and the level of manufacturing is tiny in comparison.

Nonetheless, even ignoring banking secrecy, to be more like Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Germany or Austria (all of whom in that region have comparable percentages of their nominal GDP as a result of industry), Ireland would probably have to substantially increase the number of factories. To do this, I'd imagine a complete upgrade of the rail system would also be needed. Anyone who's used Germany's DB, Switzerland's SBB or even Italy's FS would recognize the difference in quality and efficiency with Irish Rail - why do trains in Ireland need to wait something ridiculous like five to ten minutes at each station? So the driver can get a quick pint?

And once up and running our industry would have to deliver those newly manufactured goods to their markets and in this regard we're at a major disadvantage to somewhere like Switzerland who borders Germany, Italy and France.

All of which leads me to both cry and laugh when I hear Eurosceptic claims of being like Norway or Switzerland are trotted out; at this stage, I'm not sure if such claims are disingenuous, clueless or a bit of both.

BKtje wrote: »

As far as I'm aware they are allowed to bring their weapons home for storage but they are not to be taken out unless going to/from the barracks or during an invasion of course. They are not allowed to bring home ammunition however so am not sure how useful it is, at least officially.

Getting ammunition is not terribly difficult apparently. In reality though, there are few incidents and almost all of those are self-inflicted (suicide is a big problem there), with occasional cases of someone going 'postal', every few years.

BKtje

Getting ammunition is not terribly difficult apparently. In reality though, there are few incidents and almost all of those are self-inflicted (suicide is a big problem there), with occasional cases of someone going 'postal', every few years.

I am aware of the relative ease of getting ammunition but I was more wondering how useful a rifle is without ammunition for official reasons. I guess in the case of an invasion ammo is easier to distribute than weapons and ammo.

The Corinthian

BKtje wrote: »

I am aware of the relative ease of getting ammunition but I was more wondering how useful a rifle is without ammunition for official reasons. I guess in the case of an invasion ammo is easier to distribute than weapons and ammo.

The reason is political. The Swiss had a referendum on this a year or two ago and overwhelmingly voted to retain their right to arms, despite the reason for them having them at home being hopelessly out of date.

TBH, if they were invaded, the first thing that would happen is they'd be called up to report to their barracks anyway.

After all, realistically, how likely is it that someone will want to invade Switzerland? And if it did become more likely, it won't happen overnight - Germany went from demilitarized to World War II in eight years - plenty of time for the Swiss to modify their defense policy accordingly.

AlekSmart

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ireland is (almost) broke because we had a housing Property bubble that burst, leading many financial institutions that were heavily exposed in that market to go cap in hand for financial assistance from the government, which in turn had to go to the EU. Nothing more than that.

Whilst the Swiss deliberated upon their right to keep and bear arms,we never even thought twice about our native right to accquire and expand our property holdings,irrespective of price or value.

Not content with owning the roof over our heads,significant numbers of us felt the need to push the boundaries out and see how much of Europe we could buy up also......oddly enough though,apart from Derek Quinlan,few of us appear to have managed to buy into Switzerland...a missed opportunity perhaps ?

The Corinthian

I remember talking to someone who was telling me how Montenegro was the (next) place to buy, around mid 2007 and how she was in the process of doing so. I asked her if she knew what the national currency of Montenegro was. She didn't know, so I told her that because they don't have a national currency and had simply unilaterally adopted the Euro.

A blank stare followed. Dime bar?

I thought the whole thing was insane at the time, with conferences promoting investment properties in places that people had no clue about, and was not surprised when things like this happened.

BKtje

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not content with owning the roof over our heads,significant numbers of us felt the need to push the boundaries out and see how much of Europe we could buy up also......oddly enough though,apart from Derek Quinlan,few of us appear to have managed to buy into Switzerland...a missed opportunity perhaps ?

In order to buy property in Switzerland you are required to be a resident and in possesion of a B residential permit or higher. Now I'm sure that there are exceptions for the super rich but your average joe soap can't buy property here (or open a bank account for that matter) without the required paperwork. I guess that helped them avoid the Irish property owner invasion

There was even a referendum recently about swiss owned holiday homes which put a limit on the number of secondary homes per commune. This passed (barely) making it harder for swiss to own a second property in switzerland, let alone non-resident nationals.

BKtje

BKtje wrote: »

There was even a referendum recently about swiss owned holiday homes which put a limit on the number of secondary homes per commune. This passed (barely) making it harder for swiss to own a second property in switzerland, let alone non-resident nationals.

A move diametrically opposed to how the Irish government managed the property bubble. The Swiss are doing their best to try and avoid such circumstances.

The Corinthian

Deleted User wrote: »

A move diametrically opposed to how the Irish government managed the property bubble. The Swiss are doing their best to try and avoid such circumstances.

But surely the only way we could have done that is if we'd still had control of our own monetary policy..? :rolleyes:

Mance Rayder

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Very different countries with very different people. I went for a walk with my then GF in Switzerland and couldn't help but laugh at how they had 'rationalized' the local woods. They had an exercise and stretching plan laid out along the trail on little wooden signs - I kid you not.

We have those trails here too.:D There's one in Malahide park.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

But surely the only way we could have done that is if we'd still had control of our own monetary policy..? :rolleyes:

I guess this post summarises the rather facile point raised by the OP. "Going Swiss" is laughable at best and delusional at worst. It is wishful thinking to believe you can flip a switch and automatically emulate an economy like Switzerlands'. The Swiss economy is anchored by native industry and fiscal responsibility (points previously raised, I know) - two fundamental qualities Ireland lacks.

The Corinthian

Deleted User wrote: »

"Going Swiss" is laughable at best and delusional at worst.

While laughable, my feeling has long been that it's not delusional. By that I mean that those who push such arguments are perfectly aware that the comparison is ridiculous, but they understand in reality to convince others of their rabidly eurosceptic views, they need to push what would be seen as reasonable, typically economic, arguments. So they throw this sort of tripe into the mix, refuse to defend it and then hope that it sticks with a few readers.

In reality they're not really interested if it makes economic sense to remain in the EU or the Euro or not; they'd happily plunge Ireland into a twenty-year depression if it serves their true agenda which is almost always one based upon a xenophobic 'little islander' mentality.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

In reality they're not really interested if it makes economic sense to remain in the EU or the Euro or not; they'd happily plunge Ireland into a twenty-year depression if it serves their true agenda which is almost always one based upon a xenophobic 'little islander' mentality.

If that's the case, it's not worth engaging in these types of threads in any meaningful detail. At any rate, the arguments proffered by the go-it-alone crowd have been comprehensively rebutted. Ironically it will drive more moderate people away from their "cause".


Maybe they're fans of the xenophobic Swiss, hence the clamor to emulate them

ebbsy

charlemont wrote: »

Should we go Swiss?

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

I agree. The Swiss take pride in what they do, from transport to banking to planning, with real discipline.

Us ? F88ked banks, a dogs dinner of a transport system etc etc etc.

Used to be factories that went out of business, now its countries.

The Corinthian

Deleted User wrote: »

At any rate, the arguments proffered by the go-it-alone crowd have been comprehensively rebutted. Ironically it will drive more moderate people away from their "cause".

You presume that most readers bother to read as far as the rebuttals.

I cannot argue for the effectiveness of such stratagems, in light of behavioral changes brought about by the Internet, but the "throw enough mud and some will stick" stratagem has been around a long time, simply because most people tend not to read through to the end.

BKtje

Deleted User wrote: »

A move diametrically opposed to how the Irish government managed the property bubble. The Swiss are doing their best to try and avoid such circumstances.

While I'm sure that cooling the (growing) housing bubble here was a part of it ,the main reason given for this however was due to taxation issues. There are three different "taxes" to pay in Switzerland, communal, cantonal and then federal with the communal tax being the largest and the rest only paid if a certain threshold is reached. Everyone however no matter how low the income will pay communal tax to some extent unless your under the poverty line (which is currently around 2100chf (1700 euro) a month for a single person).

The problem with the secondary housing was that communes were suffering from a decrease in the tax take as people pay communal tax only in the commune of their primary residence causing the "secondary home communes" to become underfunded. At least that's what I understood from the little attention I gave it.

AlekSmart

The Corinthian wrote: »

I thought the whole thing was insane at the time, with conferences promoting investment properties in places that people had no clue about, and was not surprised when things like this happened.

Oh oh.....

More than 90 people from the United Kingdom, Ireland, Belgium and India invested in Golden Pearl and, media reports alleged, no money had yet been returned to them.

Hmmmmm....no mention of Portugese,Italians,Greeks or Spaniards......wonder if there's anybody from this parish on the list ?

AVN_1

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ireland is (almost) broke because we had a housing bubble that burst, leading many financial institutions that were heavily exposed in that market to go cap in hand for financial assistance from the government, which in turn had to go to the EU. Nothing more than that.

The housing bubble was mainly due to the cheap Euro loans and it was burst by the ECB interest rate manipulations.

The Corinthian

AVN_1 wrote: »

The housing bubble was mainly due to the cheap Euro loans and it was burst by the ECB interest rate manipulations.

It was not. It has repeatedly been pointed out that with or without the Euro or monetary tools, our government actually encouraged the boom, while - other than repeating yourself - you have failed to back up anything you have claimed whatsoever.

Are you actually going to do that or start another thread?

AVN_1

The Corinthian wrote: »

As to going 'Swiss', I suspect that those who call for this have absolutely no knowledge of Switzerland. Ignoring, for a moment, differences in both culture and politics, Switzerland is a heavily industrialized nation - Ireland is not. You can drive through even the smallest little villages there and find well established manufacturing industries (not simply one factory, but several) - in Ireland, you'll find call centers much of the time.

OK, lets look at the numbers:

Ireland (2011):

Total export (products+services) per capita = $51,682
Products exports = 54.5% of total exports
Services exports = 45.5% of total exports
Products (goods) export per capita = $ 28,180
Services export per capita = $ 23,502
Nominal GDP per capita = $ 47,500
Total Export/Nominal GDP = 109%
Total Export/Total Import = 131.44%

Switzerland (2011):

Total export (products+services) per capita = $41,779
Products exports = 70.5% of total exports
Services exports = 29.5% of total exports
Products (goods) export per capita = $ 29,476
Services export per capita = $ 12,303
Nominal GDP per capita = $ 87,200
Total Export/Nominal GDP = 52.2%
Total Export/Total Import = 130.74%

Source: ITC, IMF, etc

1) Ireland doesn't look so bad relatively to Switzerland

2) We can also compare with Sweden, Denmark or UK, which also successfully operate own currencies:

Sweden (2011):

Total export (products+services) per capita = $28,004
Products exports = 70% of total exports
Services exports = 30% of total exports
Products (goods) export per capita = $ 19,886
Services export per capita = $ 8,118
Nominal GDP per capita = $ 62,900
Total Export/Nominal GDP = 49%
Total Export/Total Import = 113.71%

Denmark (2011):

Total export (products+services) per capita = $32,472
Products exports = 63% of total exports
Services exports = 37% of total exports
Products (goods) export per capita = $ 20,451
Services export per capita = $ 12,021
Nominal GDP per capita = $ 59,800
Total Export/Nominal GDP = 54%
Total Export/Total Import = 115.98%

UK (2011):

Total export (products+services) per capita = $12,047
Products exports = 62.9% of total exports
Services exports = 37.1% of total exports
Products (goods) export per capita = $ 7,582
Services export per capita = $ 4,465
Nominal GDP per capita = $ 39,600
Total Export/Nominal GDP = 31%
Total Export/Total Import = 92.38%


3) We just have to increase internal consumption, however it want be possible as long as we remain in the Euro Zone.

The Corinthian

That has nothing to do with your claim that "the housing bubble was mainly due to the cheap Euro loans and it was burst by the ECB interest rate manipulations" - you're now attempting to change the discussion to distract from your earlier assertion to some new claim that countries with their own currencies are better off, and doing so by simply handpicking a few examples that support this view and ignoring the rest.

So, are you going to back up your most recent soundbite or are you going to continue to play games?